Most threatening Pokemon behind a substitute?

[CrackinSkulls]

I have to say a personal favourite of mine... Bisharp. Bisharp always holds a special place for me <3. But seriously he is so underrated. Behind a Sub he is soooo damn dangerous. Either you break it and eat a ridiculously powerful Sucker Punch or avoid it and risk it setting up an SD. His Sucker Punches hit like an absolute truck and people are so unprepared for him. I cannot tell you how many times people have underestimated its power and lost their revenge killer. He is also blessed with Steel typing meaning that setting up subs isn't the hardest thing. Also, if you invest into bulk his Subs are very bulky. Pokemon like Ferrothorn become complete set up fodder. His Gyro Balls and Power Whips will fail to 2HKO the subs iirc and he can just SD til the cows come home. In fact his only reliable check is sub gengar. Seriously give him a spin, he won't disappoint.

Another great pokemon behind a Sub is Zoroark (what is it with them dark types). His versatility, speed and power make him very effective and illusion is just icing on the cake.

Anyway to sum up you vs sub--Bisharp = death. I really can't stress enough how effective he is.

 

[Ames]

On the topic of sub-sucker punch users...

Moxie Honchkrow. DO NOT let this thing set up. Brave Bird is stupidly strong.

 

[Tendie]

Tormentran. I can't think of a single thing as fucking annoying to take down than a Tormentran behind a sub. If you aren't packing Keldeo best of luck taking that thing down in the next 20 turns; you will NEVER get a shot at it. Phaze that thing away and don't let it Sub up next time.

 

[G-Von]

Conkeldurr does so much work behind a sub. Think about the power of a Guts-boosted STAB Focus Punch. He has enough physical bulk to take a hit that doesnt break his sub plus Seismic Toss and Night Shade can't break it either. Sure, ghosts laugh at it, but guess what, Payback's a bitch. (see what I did there?)

 

[baddjordan]

Gliscor or CM Rain Jirachi. Gliscor under a sub with protect can stall a whole offensive team, while Jirachi can 6-0 a stall team lacking Gastrodon (whom no one uses anymore).

 

[Princess Emily]

Or maybe Garchomp under sandstorm, with a swords dance boost or more.
Evasion clause anyone? :p

EDIT: Oops Garchomp is Uber... then again you get the idea :p

 

[FaceFaceFace]

Or maybe Garchomp under sandstorm, with a swords dance boost or more.
Evasion clause anyone? :p

EDIT: Oops Garchomp is Uber... then again you get the idea :p

Just replace Gar with Gliscor and you get something equally as annoying. :D

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Tormentran. I can't think of a single thing as fucking annoying to take down than a Tormentran behind a sub. If you aren't packing Keldeo best of luck taking that thing down in the next 20 turns; you will NEVER get a shot at it. Phaze that thing away and don't let it Sub up next time.

Even then, Keldeo must not be the Choice Specs variant, either this or a Skarmory with unbreaked Sturdy, otherwise... good luck trying to take this beast.

 

[chewyourfood]

I would definitely have to say any form of SD Terrakion. This guys sweeps unprepared teams like the world's best maid sweeps a dusty chimney (bad comparison I know). A LO +2 Stone Edge rips any pokemon to shreds, including Gliscor and Slowbro, as does LO +2 Close Combat. Seriously if this guy gets up an SD and you don't have a full health Skarmory to phaze it away, you're in for quite a bit of hurt. And by that I mean you're going to have a sore butt from the severe ass-thromping you got from Terrakion.

 

[Prinz]

Gliscor and Jirachi. However, I used for a long time SubZapdos and it with toxic spikes worked very well...

 

[Mylo Xyloto]

Ugh CM Jachi and Sub+Protect+Toxic Gliscor is very annoying. Others include Sub Toxicroak in Rain and sub volcarona.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

SubToxicroak with Sucker Punch and a Fighting-type move as only attacking options is very easy to play around, however. Just have a Ghost-type with a non-attacking move, and PP Stall Sucker Punch, when you do this, even if their Toxicroak is at +6, they can't do anything against you because of Ghost-type immunity to Fighting. Gengar is easy to do this because you don't even have to PP stall Sucker Punch, just use Substitute and then attack, when they break your Substitute, you also break their Substitute. Then you must predict if they are going to setup another Substitute or attack again. If they do the second option, just use Substitute and then attack again. If they setup another substitute, you have another substitute and can't be OHKOed by Sucker Punch, thus giving you the chance to PP stall Substitute. The wrong prediction can mean death to Gengar, however.

But if you don't have a Ghost-type with a non-attacking move, then Toxicroak is, in fact, very hard to take down.

I realized that if you have a offensive team, SubCM Jirachi is somewhat easy to defeat if you have a physical attacker that isn't weak to one of it's coverage moves, preferably a Fire or Ground-type. Problem is that SubCM Jirachi is more suited to go against stall than against offensive teams, unless you eliminate all Pokémon that fall on the criteria that I said above.

Another pokémon that I remembered to be hard to take when behind a substitute is Zapdos. Zapdos can just Roost the HP that it had to lose to setup a Substitute, and it can PP stall your pokémon if you don't take care. For this reason I pack Pokémon that are strong enough to OHKO him with just one hit, such as Keldeo, so that Zapdos cannot have a chance to setup another Substitute. It's a shame that Keldeo is weak to Electric-type attacks, but I can hit Zapdos on the switch, and Zapdos is instantly OHKOed with Hydro Pump.

 

[FaceFaceFace]

Sub-disable Gengar is beastly, absolutely beastly.

Another Pokemon I am also starting to like is Sub-Seed Abomasnow. Despite it's weaknesses, there is usually something on the opposing team that Abomasnow completely shuts down, thus forcing a switch. Hello SubSeed.

Switching in a Grass type? Eat my Blizzard.

 

[Superpowerdude]

I have had alot of succes with subcm Latias it is so easy for Latias to sub with its good bulk and speed and also lets it gain numerous calm mind boosts. It is not initially threatening like some of these other pokes(Breloom) But the sub helps him set up not to mention Latias is the biggest toxic bait ever

Oh and also being the victim of Crackinskulls's Bisharp i can say that Bisharp is so damn overated and dangerous with proper support.

people also seem to forget about the old subpunch Breloom due to Breloom receiving Technician but if Breloom gets a sub up something is going to die

 

[GatoDelFuego]

It's not used, but I would consider something like Genesect to be amazing behind a sub, especially if it has HP ground.

 

[Trevorpoke42]

Imo the best Sub users are pokes that can get passed fazing pokemon (Skarmory,Heatran,Hippowdon) and I can safely say that Kyurem-B and SubRoost Kyurems are the most dangerous substitute users. I'll talk about Kyurem-B first. It just completely wrecks sand stall. It sets up a sub on things like Amoonguss, Slowbro, JELLICENT and even stuff like bulky Starmie. The mixed attacker set is amazng with Ice Beam coverage. But let me talk to you about Sub Roost Kyurem, which is so good. It can beat things like Ferrothorn and Bronzong 1v1 because of pressure stalling Gyro Balls. And Ice Beam and Earth Power have near perfect coverage (Shedinja :P) and even steel types like Heatran aren't safe. Ice Beam is also a really powerful STAB. But yeah both Kyurem's are VERY dangerous.

 

[vyomov]

SubRoost Kyurem. This just stalls out half the meta and can also hit like a truck.

 

[Cero]

Sub Special Landorus was a very difficult treath to deal with. I've used it on many of my teams and it worked very well, too bad he's now uber, but he deserved it I think hahaha
Another difficult Pokèmon to stop behind substitute in my opinion, is Kyurem-B. With Bolt Strike, Ice Beam and Outrage it destroys pretty much everyting. Ferrothorn takes something like 37% from Ice Beam and this makes him one of the few pokèmons that can stop (temporaly) him, excluding phazing from Skarmory which takes 2HKO from Bolt Strike. Another Pokèmon that can give problems to this set is Scizor, but still temporaly thanks to Ice Beam. Magnezone would be a great teammate to Kyurem-B obv.

 

[Wizarus]

If you don't know what item it has, Terrakion can be a pain when it subs, since it's killing any counter with the appropriate item at +2.

 

[ExEmegadeth]

Terrakion is definitely one of the more threathing pokes behind a sub, agreed. Predicting a choice set, only to have sub is really scary. It can then set up, being safe from being KO'd. I'd also mention Gliscor, dealing with it behind a sub is very difficult if your counters have gone down. It'll be able to sub and proctect stall for free.

 

[newtonja]

You guys dont even know howw many games I have won with gengar behind a sub, I think he is the only purely special attacker (meaning he lacks moves that hit a pokemon on the defensive side) that can beat blissey, gengar is a beast
Ps. I am not bragging just giving note to how god gengar is

 

[CanadianWifier]

Haha, old thread that's been revived multiple times - nice

I would say Kyurem-B, followed closely by regular Kyurem. Honourable mentions go to Gyara, Hydreigon, Rachi and Gliscor. Gengar can also be a pain :[

 

[asterat]

Anybody that answers kyurem is a fucking idiot.

I would say gengar with hazard support. If it can actually set up a substitute moxie honchkrow.

 

[False Sense]

Anybody that answers kyurem is a fucking idiot.

I would say gengar with hazard support. If it can actually set up a substitute moxie honchkrow.

Might I ask what's wrong with Kyurem? I can say from personal experience that regular Kyurem is an incredibly dangerous threat behind a Sub that not many teams are prepared to deal with. Aside from obvious flaws like a Stealth Rock weakness, it's a great pokemon. I don't see why anyone who thinks that is an idiot.

 

[Gary]

Anybody that answers kyurem is a fucking idiot.

I would say gengar with hazard support. If it can actually set up a substitute moxie honchkrow.

On the contrary. Anyone who thinks Kyurem is NOT threatening behind a Substitute, clearly has never used it properly before. The Sub Roost set is one of the only reasons why people would even use Kyurem-C over its counterpart. Kyurem LOVES being behind a Substitute.

Anyways, I would have to say Sub Salac Garchomp, Sub DD Gyarados, Gengar, Kyurem-B, or any variant of Sub Terrakion as well. If you can pull it off, Life Orb Alakazam is extremely potent behind a Substitute, but it requires a lot of prediction to do so.