I would argue Salamencite and Gardevoirite are probably better placed as B (The lack of adding their relevant type makes them less widely useful, but this can be a good thing if you'd prefer to preserve the Pokémon's type for some reason -if you want to hold onto Noivern's Dragon typing, Salamencite is the way to go for Aerilate Boomburst), Alakazite is probably D (Trace is surprisingly awful as a Mega Stone Ability, on top of Alakazite providing 10 less stat points than every other Mega Stone), Mewtwonite Y, the Lati Stones and Steelixite, Heracronite, and Galladite I'd probably place at C (Insomnia is questionable as an Ability and other than that Mewtwonite Y is just stats... and stealing from a relevant stat in the process. The Lati Stones are great for anything that wants Levitate and meh for anything that doesn't, while Steelixite is dependent on your team being Sand to be appealing [actually, why is it being placed higher than Swampertite? 30% more damage to moves of three specific types is much less general than doubled Speed], Heracronite is awful if you lack Skill Linkable moves, and Inner Focus on Galladite is largely irrelevant), but overall I think this is solid, and helps provide some perspective on what kinds of competition within a team you're looking at -7 S rank Stones means that the C rank Stones are going to be difficult to justify fitting into a team if they don't produce an amazing result on the intended Pokémon!ehh.....florges just seems to still be outclassed by sylveon. the only thing florges has over sylveon is a tiny bit more speed and sp. def(and synthesis, which IS helpful). Sylveon is a better fairy type simply because it passes fatter wishes and has hyper voice, allowing it to use -ate shenanigans, something florges lacks.(also has a better offensive movepool, even if it isn't much.)
But anyhooo....
Introducing the Mix and Mega Megastone viability rankings!
Limited Stones(banned outside of specific 'mons)
Kangaskanite
Gengarite
Beedrillite
Medichamite
Mawilite
Blazikenite
S Rank Stones The very best Megastones, these stones are both excellent and easy to fit onto a team member. Megastones/Orbs in this rank provide both excellent abilities and/or very good stats. There is very little reason not to use any of these stones on a team.
-Sablenite
-Lopunnite
-Lucarionite
-Pinsirite
-Altarianite
-Red Orb
-Blue Orb
A Rank Stones Very good Megastones, these stones create very good Pokemon within the meta. While not as amazing as the S-Rank stones, Megastones in this rank are very good choices on a team due to good abilities and/or stat gains.
-Ampharosite
-Gyaradosite
-Mewtwonite-X
-Pidgeotenite
-Aggronite
-Venusaurite
-Diancite
-Manectite
-Cameruptite
-Latiasite
-Aerodactylite
-Absolite
B-Rank Stones Solid Megastones, these stones create decent Pokemon in the meta. Stones in this rank are good choices, but might not be as common as those in the A or S-Ranks. Some Stones may fit only onto specific Pokemon in order for them to be viable.
-Audinite
-Scizorite
-Glalite
-Latiosite
-Charizardite-X
-Charizardite-Y
-Banetite
-Heraconite
-Galladite
-Tyranitarite
-Sceptilite
-Mewtwonite-Y
-Steelixite
-Slowbronite
-Metagrossite
-Garchompite
C-Rank Stones Decent Megastones, these stones have viable niches in the meta. Stones in this rank may fit onto certain Pokemon, but may have flaws that prevent them from functioning on other Pokemon.
-Salamencite
-Gardevoirite
-Sharpedonite
-Houndoomite
-Alakazite
-Blastioisinte
-Swampertite
D-Rank Stones Poor Megastones. Stones in this rank have only specific recipients and will fail if used on anything else.
-Abomasite
I would appreciate any opinions on rankings for stones, just make it a GOOD reason for a specific ranking.
This Ranking was born because I thought new players might want to know which stones were good choices.
I would argue Salamencite and Gardevoirite are probably better placed as B (The lack of adding their relevant type makes them less widely useful, but this can be a good thing if you'd prefer to preserve the Pokémon's type for some reason -if you want to hold onto Noivern's Dragon typing, Salamencite is the way to go for Aerilate Boomburst), Alakazite is probably D (Trace is surprisingly awful as a Mega Stone Ability, on top of Alakazite providing 10 less stat points than every other Mega Stone), Mewtwonite Y, the Lati Stones and Steelixite, Heracronite, and Galladite I'd probably place at C (Insomnia is questionable as an Ability and other than that Mewtwonite Y is just stats... and stealing from a relevant stat in the process. The Lati Stones are great for anything that wants Levitate and meh for anything that doesn't, while Steelixite is dependent on your team being Sand to be appealing [actually, why is it being placed higher than Swampertite? 30% more damage to moves of three specific types is much less general than doubled Speed], Heracronite is awful if you lack Skill Linkable moves, and Inner Focus on Galladite is largely irrelevant), but overall I think this is solid, and helps provide some perspective on what kinds of competition within a team you're looking at -7 S rank Stones means that the C rank Stones are going to be difficult to justify fitting into a team if they don't produce an amazing result on the intended Pokémon!
And the fact that it doesn't require you to switch in on toxic to get max damage.252 Atk Tough Claws Metagrossite Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 264-312 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It does less to Cresselia(still plenty), but has way more utility because of its great 125 base speed.
Blue Orb should be moved to A because its used on less mons than it would be otherwise. What is metagame defining with blue orb anyways? Its an okay general choice, but it is nothing like the -ates and those types of stones, and I really don't think primordial sea is a reason to have it so high.ehh.....florges just seems to still be outclassed by sylveon. the only thing florges has over sylveon is a tiny bit more speed and sp. def(and synthesis, which IS helpful). Sylveon is a better fairy type simply because it passes fatter wishes and has hyper voice, allowing it to use -ate shenanigans, something florges lacks.(also has a better offensive movepool, even if it isn't much.)
But anyhooo....
Introducing the Mix and Mega Megastone viability rankings!
Limited Stones(banned outside of specific 'mons)
Kangaskanite
Gengarite
Beedrillite
Medichamite
Mawilite
Blazikenite
S Rank Stones The very best Megastones, these stones are both excellent and easy to fit onto a team member. Megastones/Orbs in this rank provide both excellent abilities and/or very good stats. There is very little reason not to use any of these stones on a team.
-Sablenite
-Lopunnite
-Lucarionite
-Pinsirite
-Altarianite
-Red Orb
-Blue Orb
A Rank Stones Very good Megastones, these stones create very good Pokemon within the meta. While not as amazing as the S-Rank stones, Megastones in this rank are very good choices on a team due to good abilities and/or stat gains.
-Ampharosite
-Gyaradosite
-Mewtwonite-X
-Pidgeotenite
-Aggronite
-Venusaurite
-Diancite
-Manectite
-Cameruptite
-Aerodactylite
-Absolite
B-Rank Stones Solid Megastones, these stones create decent Pokemon in the meta. Stones in this rank are good choices, but might not be as common as those in the A or S-Ranks. Some Stones may fit only onto specific Pokemon in order for them to be viable.
-Latiasite
-Audinite
-Scizorite
-Glalite
-Charizardite-X
-Charizardite-Y
-Banetite
-Tyranitarite
-Sceptilite
-Slowbronite
-Metagrossite
-Garchompite
-Blastioisinte
-Salamencite
-Gardevoirite
-Swampertite
C-Rank Stones Decent Megastones, these stones have viable niches in the meta. Stones in this rank may fit onto certain Pokemon, but may have flaws that prevent them from functioning on other Pokemon.
-Latiosite
-Sharpedonite
-Houndoomite
-Mewtwonite-Y
-Galladite
-Heraconite
-Steelixite
D-Rank Stones Poor Megastones. Stones in this rank have only specific recipients and will fail if used on anything else.
-Abomasite
-Alakazite
I would appreciate any opinions on rankings for stones, just make it a GOOD reason for a specific ranking.
This Ranking was born because I thought new players might want to know which stones were good choices.
They are definitely viable, however, I think it's really only Ubers that would be any good in that role, for the most part. I mean, you could run Ttar w/o a stone w/ excadrill, just like in BW, and obviously there's some stuff that's viable (banded scizor's apparently quite the force in Ubers, for example)252 Atk Choice Band Guts Badly Poisoned (from Toxic) Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 422-498 (95 - 112.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
So yeah, it wins if it switches in on Toxic. Band Megahorn is a 2HKO anyway though.
This actually goes perfectly with something I wanted to see some discussion about...
What do you guys think about Pokemon NOT holding Mega stones?
All the hype is about Pokemon holding Mega stones (and rightfully so imo), but what about those that don't? I know ubers can't, but what Pokemon do you think are viable without Mega stones? Scarf seems like a good item to outspeed most of the Megas, and Band or Specs can give a better boost than some Mega stones, so what do you guys think? My opinion on this is that Mega stones are generally better a lot of the time for the ability boost they offer, such as Adaptability, Magic Bounce, No Guard, any -ate, etc. although I think some Pokemon (cough cough Heracross :^) ) could be viable in Mix and Mega without holding a Mega stone.
Florges however has instant recovery and actually does have nature power for ate shenanigans. Unfortunately, unlike metagamiate, you can't have prankster as well as an ate-ability, because that's a pretty cool combo. And it actually has a TINY bit more fire power and quite a lot more speed. Sylveon is pitifully slow, and the I don't actually think there's THAT much difference in physical bulk. It does have a smaller movepool, but it also gets solarbeam which is sweet w/ red orb (also synthesis, again. 75% recovery in one turn is no joke.), or giga drain for even greater recovery, etc.. Again, not an amazing mon, but it's got some unique options that really set it apart.ehh.....florges just seems to still be outclassed by sylveon. the only thing florges has over sylveon is a tiny bit more speed and sp. def(and synthesis, which IS helpful). Sylveon is a better fairy type simply because it passes fatter wishes and has hyper voice, allowing it to use -ate shenanigans, something florges lacks.(also has a better offensive movepool, even if it isn't much.)
then it bops you back with psychic for super effective damage and deals, if not enough to kill you, seriously significant damage. Then anything can pick you off. Also, Hera is crazy weak to 2 of 3 of the ate-speed types, so it's easy to force out.252 Atk Tough Claws Metagrossite Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 264-312 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It does less to Cresselia(still plenty), but has way more utility because of its great 125 base speed.
Kyurem is probably one of the best cameruptite abusers, due to its already substantial bulk and crazy power, but I still think A is too high. I could be convinced of B, but not A. The bulk is great, I will say that though.Okay, edited again. however Cameruptite is staying right where it is. Why? Because alongside sheer force it also grants an EXCELLENT +30 to both defenses. Also, sheer force falls into the category of "more moves get a boost" so stuff that has a large movepool can use it very effectively, and stuff that already has good bulk can turn into a terrifying tanky tank-see kyurem.
Galladeite has been moved to C-rank.
Audinite, while granting a worthless ability, also grants massive +40 defense boosts, a stellar defensive typing, and doesn't drop your speed. also can be used if sablenite slot is taken.
Garchompite was a bit tricky, while it DOES drop your speed, it also makes for some deadly mixed attackers and decent tanks. If sand happens to be around, then all the better. As I said, stat gains were factored along with the ability gains.
I think you guys are undervaluing Alakazite. Even though it's only a +90 BST increase, the boosts themselves are allocated efficiently. If you're going to say that it sucks because it gets 10 less BST, then you should also trash stuff like Gardevoirite, Scizorite, Charizard stones etc. for giving boosts in useless stats. Not trying to say it's great or even good though. It's outclassed by Manectite in most cases but Trace is actually not too bad since there are fewer shit-tier abilities being used.Alakazite is probably D (Trace is surprisingly awful as a Mega Stone Ability, on top of Alakazite providing 10 less stat points than every other Mega Stone)
I wouldn't say latiasite is terrible- it doesn't give any huge boosts, but it doesn't waste a whole lot, actually. It's actually very good both because of levitate and because of the boosts it gives.I would argue Salamencite and Gardevoirite are probably better placed as B (The lack of adding their relevant type makes them less widely useful, but this can be a good thing if you'd prefer to preserve the Pokémon's type for some reason -if you want to hold onto Noivern's Dragon typing, Salamencite is the way to go for Aerilate Boomburst), Alakazite is probably D (Trace is surprisingly awful as a Mega Stone Ability, on top of Alakazite providing 10 less stat points than every other Mega Stone), Mewtwonite Y, the Lati Stones and Steelixite, Heracronite, and Galladite I'd probably place at C (Insomnia is questionable as an Ability and other than that Mewtwonite Y is just stats... and stealing from a relevant stat in the process. The Lati Stones are great for anything that wants Levitate and meh for anything that doesn't, while Steelixite is dependent on your team being Sand to be appealing [actually, why is it being placed higher than Swampertite? 30% more damage to moves of three specific types is much less general than doubled Speed], Heracronite is awful if you lack Skill Linkable moves, and Inner Focus on Galladite is largely irrelevant), but overall I think this is solid, and helps provide some perspective on what kinds of competition within a team you're looking at -7 S rank Stones means that the C rank Stones are going to be difficult to justify fitting into a team if they don't produce an amazing result on the intended Pokémon!
Well, the question is more if the stats they provide are sufficiently different from other Mega Stones with more widely useful Abilities that you're willing to take Galladite or Steelixite just for the statline. Galladite is fairly similar to Lopunnite -same Speed boost, a smaller Attack boost, albeit a better Defense boost- but Lopunnite provides Scrappy and Fighting as a type (Which, mind, is not always a good thing), can often be compared unfavorably to Metagrossite (As Tough Claws will more than make up the difference in Attack gain if leaning on contact moves), and even has some overlap with Pinsirite!Alright, made the changes you guys asked for.
My reasoning for certain rankings is that i'm not basing viability purely on abilities, but also on stats. both galladeite and steelixite provide very solid stat boosts, so I had them ranked in B.
There's very few Fighting types that even get Aura Sphere. Blastoisinite Fighting type basically means Lucario or maybe Mienshao.I think that Blastoisinite could probably go up to B Rank, as I think it fits that description very well. Its amazing on Hydreigon and Lucario, and other Dragon-types, Dark-types, or Fighting-types can use it to boost their STABs as well. While it doesn't boost speed, it grants +50 SpA and Mega Launcher, turning the majority of these Pokemon into wallbreakers, and they excel at this role. So yeah, I think Blastoisinite can go up to B Rank simply because it gives certain Pokemon the ability to manhandle walls.
The BST point is just adding insult to injury, in all honesty. As an avid user of Gardevoir in all tiers, I'm fully aware of the value of Trace, and the problem is that the situations Trace is valuable in largely will not occur in Mix and Mega.I think you guys are undervaluing Alakazite. Even though it's only a +90 BST increase, the boosts themselves are allocated efficiently. If you're going to say that it sucks because it gets 10 less BST, then you should also trash stuff like Gardevoirite, Scizorite, Charizard stones etc. for giving boosts in useless stats. Not trying to say it's great or even good though. It's outclassed by Manectite in most cases but Trace is actually not too bad since there are fewer shit-tier abilities being used.
Levitate is nice for specific Pokémon, but merely OK for most, and redundant for Flying types. They're also somewhat wasteful of stats, particularly Latiosite. Other Abilities tend to be more dramatically beneficial, and there are other Mega Stones with more optimal distributions of stats... or both.I wouldn't say latiasite is terrible- it doesn't give any huge boosts, but it doesn't waste a whole lot, actually. It's actually very good both because of levitate and because of the boosts it gives.
I meant that it's informative of the kinds of pressures on teambuilding going on. There's more than enough S-ranked Mega Stones to outfit an entire team (Or just enough, if you discount Lucarionite as S-ranked), which places a lot of pressure on lower ranking Mega Stones. You are unlikely to just slap something decent onto a decent Pokémon for your last slot, because even if 5 of your slots are S-rank Mega Stones you still have another S-rank Mega Stone to slap onto something decent and call it a day!Also, Im not sure if this is what you mean, but I feel that the S rank may be overcrowded. It is going to be hard to justify some lower rank stones.
I wouldn't mind helping out either if you'd likeMaestroDeSWAG , seems like a pretty good idea, and i'll do some work on it as soon as I can. Actually, if you'd like to help, i'd be glad for someone else to help me with that.
Aah, I believe you're right, the strategy dex had aggrons typing flipped.MaestroDeSWAG
Probopass, Shieldon, and Bastiodon, with Steel as a secondary typing, would remain Rock/Steel.
Aggron line is the only Steel primary, but if there were others, they would also be pure Steel.
It's like how Garchomp w/ Charizardite X would be pure Dragon, but Flygon w/ Charizardite X would retain its Ground typing.
Correct me if I'm wrong Ghoul King .
That would be because the strategy dex doesn't give a crap about which typing is primary or secondary, since it doesn't matter except in some OMs, and is stupid and lists it in alphabetical order.Aah, I believe you're right, the strategy dex had aggrons typing flipped.
Incorrect! If either type is Steel, you get a pure Steel type. This is how all the Mega Stones that add a secondary type work -they overwrite the secondary type, unless either of the Pokémon's types is already the added type, in which case it becomes a pure version of the type the Stone is trying to add.MaestroDeSWAG
Probopass, Shieldon, and Bastiodon, with Steel as a secondary typing, would remain Rock/Steel.
Aggron line is the only Steel primary, but if there were others, they would also be pure Steel.
It's like how Garchomp w/ Charizardite X would be pure Dragon, but Flygon w/ Charizardite X would retain its Ground typing.
Correct me if I'm wrong Ghoul King .
Mew is it, actually, even if you are willing to replace Seismic Toss with Night Shade. Could be an interesting build.I had an idea... don't know how good it is, but an idea nonetheless... is there anything bulky that can use Lopunnite to combine Scrappy with Super Fang and Seismic Toss, hopefully with a recovery move? I was thinking Mew -- Psychic/Fighting isn't too bad a typing (only three weaknesses), and both the latter moves are in its moveset... with this set-up, it could perhaps go full bulk.
Actually, the best option, and this is banned, fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you choose to look at it), is mew w/ khangaskhanite. It is able to 2hko literally anything w/ less than 801 HP, well, and that isn't a ghost type (or, if you're running nightshade, normal type) and it would require 0 Atk investment. Then just run max HP and speed w/ substitute and roost and it's basically GG after you get a sub up and get any ghost types out of the picture.I had an idea... don't know how good it is, but an idea nonetheless... is there anything bulky that can use Lopunnite to combine Scrappy with Super Fang and Seismic Toss, hopefully with a recovery move? I was thinking Mew -- Psychic/Fighting isn't too bad a typing (only three weaknesses), and both the latter moves are in its moveset... with this set-up, it could perhaps go full bulk.
Sorry to derive conversation, but has a consensus been made on Sablenite Cresselia? I can't stand seeing it anymore...
Please note that the council is now voting on the Cresselia suspect. Results should be announced within a day. If anyone would like to throw in last-minute opinions, now's the time.
Most of those things are incredibly niche, and the fact that you HAVE to run those things to beat it is just stupid. It's bulk is insane, it can't be stalled, really, it has a move pool that basically lets it beat basically everything w/ ease. If the question were sablenite, I'd agree with you. However, cresselia DESTROYS teams singlehandedly. It doesn't hold stall together, it is stall atm. There is plenty of other good mons for stall, it's the stones that are lacking. And actually, Manectite is decent for many defensive mons. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if stall as a whole improved somewhat, as cresselia destroys stall.Cresselia: DON'T BAN
Tbh, stall is kinda lacking in Mix and Mega imo. While there are viable stall mons, there aren't many good stall stones, which really hinders stall's viability as a playstyle. I mean, Sablenite, Audinite, Aggronite, Slowbronite, Venusaurite are all good or pretty good, and then what, Salamencite? Houndoomite, Scizorite, Cameruptite, Heracronite, Abomasite? These stones are all second class, having bad stall abilities and wasting too much in offenses and speed for stall (although Audinite gives a shitty ability too, and Thick Fat is only good on some Pokemon). Stall is very limited right now imho, and Cresselia is one of the pieces that makes stall somewhat viable. However, I would be with a ban if it was impossible to break, BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE. Pigeotite Gengar, Lucarionite Tyranitar, Charizardite X Landorus-Therian, Metagrossite Heracross, Blastoisinite Hydreigon, Gengarite Gengar, Red Orb Victini, Ampharosite Mew, traditional stallbreakers using Gyaradosite/Ampharosite, and more that I've forgotten I'm sure, can all severely dent, cripple, or eliminate Cresselia. So basically, my opinion is that stall is very limited in Mix and Mega, and Cresselia is one of its saving graces, and it is NOT unbeatable, and even though some ways to beat it may be gimmickier, every good balance or offense team should be packing AT LEAST one of them imo (I have 3 on the team I'm making rn iirc, and stall I have no experience with but they have their own Cress lol). There are ways to beat Cresselia, and it is just another top-tier Pokemon to prepare for (all metas have them).