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Mewtwo
- Thread starter stage7_4
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Ok now I want low kick on MMx for sure.
This leave me with a severe 4MSS:
- low kick
- zen headbutt
- drain punch
- ??? coverage
This leave me with a severe 4MSS:
- low kick
- zen headbutt
- drain punch
- ??? coverage
Why use 2 Fighting moves?
I like running rock slide over stone edge on MMX, it still OHKO's Ho-oh and 2hko's all other flying types and has that 30% flinch rate and better accuracy.
Lugia is the only flying type that doesn't get 2hko'd by rockslide, but that assumes multiscale and no stealth rocks.
252+ Atk (custom) Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Lugia: 96-113 (23 - 27.1%)
The good news is that Lugia can't roost stall, that 30% flinch rate is bound to happen pretty quickly, after that, you will nearly 2hko Lugia with every hit.
252+ Atk (custom) Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lugia: 192-226 (46.1 - 54.3%)
Stone Edge guarantee's the 2hko after multiscale is broken, but its just far to inaccurate for me.
Lugia is the only flying type that doesn't get 2hko'd by rockslide, but that assumes multiscale and no stealth rocks.
252+ Atk (custom) Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Lugia: 96-113 (23 - 27.1%)
The good news is that Lugia can't roost stall, that 30% flinch rate is bound to happen pretty quickly, after that, you will nearly 2hko Lugia with every hit.
252+ Atk (custom) Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lugia: 192-226 (46.1 - 54.3%)
Stone Edge guarantee's the 2hko after multiscale is broken, but its just far to inaccurate for me.
Psycho Cut has more PP & the high-critical hit ratio, ignores Light Screen. Psystrike bypasses Refect & is unaffected by Burn or Intimidate. Although my Adamant Mewtwo has a low Sp. Atk IV, so... I pretty much don't have a choice.
I just used a damage calculation, and you're right: a Naive natured Psystrike hits Blissey just slightly harder than Psystrike. So, Psystrike it is (unless you're using a -Sp. Atk nature).
^ Yup thats why most of the sets on the earlier pages are turning to a mixed set. His sp atk is still high enough to the point tht fire blast and ice beam are superior to the elemental punches. Again not completely sure but M2X could still run a calm mind set but then he would only be taking advantage of his new defensive typing.
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Is MMX w/ sub, recover, aura sphere, psystrike & 252 special attack, 252 speed, 4 hp, adamant a good set?
The advantage over both thr other mewtwos is that it's fighting type and has slightly higher defence. Disadvantage compared to regular mewtwo is that it can't hold an item and the disadvantage compared to MMY is obviously the offensive stat difference
The advantage over both thr other mewtwos is that it's fighting type and has slightly higher defence. Disadvantage compared to regular mewtwo is that it can't hold an item and the disadvantage compared to MMY is obviously the offensive stat difference
Now that I think about it, if I use Psystrike, I won't need to Mega evolve right away.
Fighting typing is nice I won't lie, but the pure attacking powers of MMX just aren't great for ubers standards. Your only boosting move is bulk up, which makes Groudon and Arceus better boosting sweepers, while the all out attacking set ends up being inferior as a mixed sweeper to a regular Mewtwo or MMY. The existence of psystrike really hurts MMX's niche as a mixed attacker. That's why I said the only role that it isn't outclassed in is as a bulky bulk up sweeper.
I just disagree. MMY's lower defense is offset by the lack of life orb recoil. You're going to die to priority no matter which Mewtwo you're using. On the other end of the spectrum, the higher special defense and lack of recoil make setting up on special sweepers an actual possibility. MMY might not be a huge upgrade, but your mega slot is rarely ever used in ubers, so if you plan on using Mewtwo, you might as well use MMY.
^Someone who doesnt hate M2Y lol yeah i said the same things in my pro and cons for him a few posts up. Im struggling to find out X vs Y. I have the same reasoning if your gonna use a mega in ubers let it be mewtwo.
Edit: Majority of pokemon in ubers use Special Attack so the sp def is welcome
Edit: Majority of pokemon in ubers use Special Attack so the sp def is welcome
There's that and the fact that you can only actually benefit from rest by using it when you are in Classictwo forme. Which means using an inferior forme (because no item) just for a one time gimmicky healing option when you already have excellent alternatives. Besides, Taunt + 3 attacks is what MMY is good at.
Those advantages are very minor, especially in a metagame where Genesect isn't nearly as dominant as it used to be. Even if Genesect was an issue, significantly crippling your offensive ability (itemless 154 is mediocre) to limit the scenarios where you are forced out isn't a worthwhile trade. (no, STAB Aura Sphere isn't making up for being itemless, that set won't be breaking anything)
The thing is that this is no longer true once you invest in attack, which you should because that's one of the major draws to using MMX.
You make it sound like Bulk Up Mewtwo is bad when it's one of the most dominant forces in the metagame, lol. The comparison to the other setup mons is extremely strained and I shouldn't have to detail where the differences are and how they can be significant. Also, MMX's Low Kick hits hella hard in Ubers so even if you are put off by Drain Punch, Bulk Up sets you can still opt for a variant that has instantly high damage output.
I agree going mixed sweeper is ass, though.
I agree with MMY being better than depicted but for completely different reasons, and I certainly wouldn't claim MMY is an upgrade from Classictwo. What really helps it from being an arguable downgrade from Classictwo is that Genesect has declined (quite significantly) in dominance so handing that +Atk on a silver platter isn't as bad as it would be in BW2. Honestly though, MMY remains essentially another variant of your typical special attacking Mewtwo. (btw, if you aren't using Taunt + 3 attacks you should because it's incredible in this metagame) It has the advantage of no LO recoil which allows it to beat on walls without adding to the damage it takes from their attacks as well as has that nice spdef boost for absorbing support Arceus Judgments. On the other hand, SR isn't exactly standard battle conditions anymore which makes that drop in power from LO Classictwo much more significant. For example,
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 190-225 (42.7 - 50.6%) Not 2HKOing
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 207-243 (46.6 - 54.7%) Solid chance at a 2HKO
Overall, the differences are minor with it basically being summed up by Classictwo having a slight edge early/mid-game at forcing switches and nabbing 2HKOs whereas Spermtwo is more durable for lasting into the late-game and getting an extra hit in here or there. Too bad Spermtwo eats up your mega evolution so no comboing with Mega Gengar.
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Having used a team with M2Y on it for awhile now, I have to disagree. I actually think M2Y is better than normal M2 in a lot of situations. The lack of LO recoil actually makes a huge difference in terms of how long M2 lasts in the battle, especially against defensive teams, and I haven't seen M2Y miss any KOes yet that normal M2 would have gotten aside from against full health support Arceus. That +30 to SpDef is also pretty huge, allowing M2Y to tank powerful special hits that would easily kill normal M2:
252+ SpA Kyogre Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y in Rain: 229-271 (64.8 - 76.7%)
252+ SpA Kyogre Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo in Rain: 295-348 (83.5 - 98.5%)
Regular M2 dies after SR + 1 LO recoil to Scarf Kyogre Surf, whereas M2Y has a very high chance to live after 2 switch-ins to SR.
4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 130-154 (36.8 - 43.6%)
4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 166-196 (47 - 55.5%)
M2Y can actually afford to switch-in on support Arceus if needed.
Other interesting calcs:
252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 222-262 (62.8 - 74.2%)
252+ SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 283-334 (80.1 - 94.6%)
252 SpA Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y in Rain: 256-303 (72.5 - 85.8%)
252 SpA Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo in Rain: 328-387 (92.9 - 109.6%)
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 299-354 (84.7 - 100.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 382-452 (108.2 - 128%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 255-300 (72.2 - 84.9%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 324-382 (91.7 - 108.2%)
Granted, there are still plenty of advantages to using regular M2 since it takes priority better, is more powerful, and doesn't take up a Mega slot, but M2Y has surprisingly good bulk which I feel makes it a bit more useful against the bulkier, more balanced teams we're seeing more of in this metagame, particularly with this set that Melee Mewtwo was talking about:
Mewtwo @ Mewtwonite Y
Timid Nature
252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 SpDef
-Psystrike
-Ice Beam
-Aura Sphere / Fire Blast
-Taunt
This set is pretty amazing in the current metagame. Taunt shuts down walls like SpDef Giratina and Lugia and gives Mewtwo a chance to throw out powerful attacks, letting it easily wear down walls like support Arceus and pink blobs. This set has great utility against defensive teams and is fast and strong enough to do work against offense as it fails to be revenged easily by some common Scarfers (weakened Kyogre, Palkia, Dialga) and Genesect has taken a nosedive in usage. I personally like Fire Blast on this as it incinerates Aegislash which is really annoying to a lot of teams (especially if you plan on running Xerneas); however, Fire Blast necessitates Groudon support to be truly effective and leaves Mewtwo kind of screwed against Tyranitar and Heatran, so pick your poison based on what your team can handle. IMO this set works best on sun teams (or at least teams with Groudon on them) so it can make use of Fire Blast, and it can be used to check Mono CM Arceus-Water (with sun up) and Giratina which are really annoying for many sun builds. This consequently makes it a good Ho-Oh partner, and I'm sure I don't need to tell you about how good Ho-Oh is. :D
Also thanks to whoever fixed the font...I'm watching you
Your post was too nice to be so fugly with those calcs formatting. You can fix it easily yourself, though, by using the BB Code Editor in the top right. ~MM2
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Why is it that mixed M2X sets are unviable. Isnt psystrike stronger than psycho cut even uninvested and what about fire blast and ice bean vs the elemental punches. If i could see some hard proof of the punches fully invested being stronger then i will gladly agree that full physical is the way to go. Also is zen headbutt really superior to psycho cut i mean the superior accuracy and increased critical hit ratio are really appealing to me it also doesnt have to worry about contact. Zen's 20% chance to flinch isnt bad either. I agree with the posts about M2Y being useful he doesn't deserve the hate.
P.S. I apologize about the posts earlier also about my sets. I meant for them to be concerned regarding the actual meta also in terms of a mixed M2X being viable in standard play.
P.S. I apologize about the posts earlier also about my sets. I meant for them to be concerned regarding the actual meta also in terms of a mixed M2X being viable in standard play.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/
You can fiddle with that calc but 252 EVs physical moves all overpower the 0 evs special moves with exception of fire blast vs fire punch which is slightly stronger. (an irrelevant amount) Plus, those special attacks don't get stronger with Bulk Up.
You can fiddle with that calc but 252 EVs physical moves all overpower the 0 evs special moves with exception of fire blast vs fire punch which is slightly stronger. (an irrelevant amount) Plus, those special attacks don't get stronger with Bulk Up.
The first decent argument for Mega Mewtwo Y in this thread. However, the oppurtinity cost is just too high. There are so many Mega Evolutions that can significantlly differentiate themselves from their Base Forme while retaining their niche in the Ubers metagame. Undoubtedly Taunt+3 Attacks Mewtwo Y can be extremely effective, but why not save your Mega slot for something like Mega Blaziken or mega Khangaskan? I think the main problem with Mega Mewtwo Y is that it does not have any notable advanteges over regular LO Mewtwo. Living Scarf ogre's Surf can be cool, but ultimately Mewtwo Y is just too similar to Mewtwo. And the fact that it's a Super Buu rip-off, -points for that. So Mewtwo Y is certainly a decent mon, BUT you can achieve SIMIlAR results with LO Mewtwo while saving a Mega Slot.
And Mewtwo outspeeds Darkrai anyway
Not all comps need their Mega slots for something else, so in those cases better bulk + no recoil are perfectly sound reasons to pick M2Y. It doesn't have to be enormously more useful in order to be good.
I didn't say it was bad, I merely said that Regular Mewtwo could preform essentially the same role while freeing a Mega Slot. However, if you want to compare Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y, of course Mewtwo Y would be the superior choice. I also have not encountered a team that would not appreciate another Mega. I guess what I am trying to say is while Mewtwo Y is good, it is not worth a Mega Slot simply because Base Mewtwo can preform it's role almost as effectively. Take, for example, MMY's Taunt+3 Attacks set. This a Stallbreaker/Wallbreaker, no? You could use Regular Mewtwo to the same effect and also combine it with Mega Gengar, who gives hell to stall. This is what I am talking about. In the rare occasion another Mega would not improve your team, then by all means use MMY
Admittedly I didn't realize that mewtwoY was so bulky on the special side but mind doing some calcs on the physical side? That's where MMY is lacking afterall.
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 292-345 (82.7 - 97.7%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 358-423 (101.4 - 119.8%)
Very relevant.
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 148-175 (41.9 - 49.5%)
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 181-214 (51.2 - 60.6%)
Normal Mewtwo avoids the 2HKO from non-item boosted Extreme Speed from Arceus-Normal.
Although I do agree that having 106/70/120 defenses is better than 106/90/90 for a set-up sweeper. Being specialized in one defense means more set-up opportunities, especially given that the vast majority of uber uses special attack.
It's relevant to note here that regular Mewtwo's bulk is always compromised by Life Orb. When it comes to such 10% differences, in practice they only give regular Mewtwo an extra turn, whereas whatever Mewtwo Y survives keeps it around indefinitely.
Timid Nature
252 Sp Atk / 80 Def / 176 Spd
Would this spread still allow MMY to outspeed anything that regular mewtwo is supposed to while also returning his defense up to a good margin. It was posted earlier(pg.6) and im hoping this spread fixes the defense issue on MMY.
252 Sp Atk / 80 Def / 176 Spd
Would this spread still allow MMY to outspeed anything that regular mewtwo is supposed to while also returning his defense up to a good margin. It was posted earlier(pg.6) and im hoping this spread fixes the defense issue on MMY.
I think it's great the way it is (well, at least on random Wi-Fi); nobody expects it! Many Tyranitar have died thinking it would be an easy OHKO. Instead I'm the one that scores the OHKO.
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