Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

[Samtendo09]

Not sure if it’s possible, but maybe those moves like Superpower or Leaf Storm could somehow get changed so they do effect the new attacking stat? I mean, it’s going to take a bit more coding to implement this change anyways, so might as well. Still, really fun idea for an OM, honestly one of the best I’ve heard on this thread.

As for the name, maybe “Flip-Flopped” or “Spectrum Swap”? I’m not really good at names for stuff like this.

There's already an OM similarly named (simply Flipped), I may suggest Category Swap since both Physical and Special are considered as move categories, even before the Gen 4 split.

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

I like spectrum swap since Physical and Special are 2 sides of a spectrum. Category swap is a bit vague since a category could be a lot of things and it doesn't tell the reader that much about what the OM plays around.

As for the leaf storm/superpower change, it would have to affect every other stat boost/decrease even from abilities like huge power. A lot of pokemons would basically do the same thing but with their other attacking stats. I find dragon dance dragapult with draco meteor, fire blast and shadow ball more interesting than basically using the same set as in regular formats.

 

[AIPS]

Porygon-Z @ Flame Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Facade
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
- Trick

So PoryZ gets Boomburst

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zen Headbutt
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

BoltBeam zam with recovery

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Porygon-Z @ Flame Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Facade
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
- Trick

So PoryZ gets Boomburst

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zen Headbutt
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

BoltBeam zam with recovery

Cool sets! I don't think Porygon-z will be broken since its coverage is really bad and it can't run specs, scarf or LO to boost facade's power. Alakazam gets some nice coverage but its moves lack some base power which is why I'd prefer this:

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Poltergeist
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Perfect coverage with ghost+fighting and priority with sucker punch.

 

[Caionamax]

Moveswap could be a great name for th

Physical-Special Swap



Metagame Premise: Physical moves become special and special moves become physical. For example, Close combat would act as a special move and flamethrower would act as a physical moves. This doesn't change anything else about the move. Psyshock and secret sword usually target the defense stat. They still do but using the user's physical attack, basically like any other physical moves.

Potential Bans or Threats: Draco Meteor, Superpower, Leaf Storm, Overheat and other similar moves I forgot. These moves are very powerful but have the drawback to reduce the user's offensive stat to make them less spammable. Superpower reduced physical attack and was physical and the other moves reduced special attack and were special. However, these moves now reduce the other offensive stat which means they never get weaker and they can be spammed as much as you want.

Physical Hurricanes, hydro pumps, ice beams, thunderbolts or fire blast means it finally gets a flying stab and far better coverage. A lot of strong tools that could make it a better dragon dancer.

Special superpower/close combats and special flip turn is really good. Sure your water moves are weaker but you also get special aqua jet and megahorn for coverage. Keldeo would make for a very good pivot.

Questions for the community:
I feel the name Physical-Special Swap is too long. I could go with Phys-Spec Swap but does anyone have a better idea?

Moveswaps could be a great name for this fantastic idea!

 

[AIPS]

Azu will have hydro and draining kiss, making it hit harder and recover alot of HP after b drum

Hippo now has scorching sands and weather ball to abuse

Special Explosion on Magnezone might be cool

Volc with leech life and Flare Blitz, even Wild Charge for bulky waters

Physical Freeze-Dry sounds very good on mamo and kyurem

I guess lucario can now use his higher SpA with a bigger movepool inc. special espeed

 

[aaronarium]

Maybe a good name could be "Attribute Swap"?

Also, I think it's worth shouting out the numerous Pokés that would get a lot worse. Spectral Thief and CC coming off of 90 SpA is usable, but not great for Marshadow. Same with Cinderace, but he might see some good usage out of Scorching Sands and maybe Electro Ball. And you might think I'm nuts but Eternatus seems like it'll be in some dire straits with its miniscule physical (now special) movepool. He would still be a good wall with Toxic, Recover, and the bananas bulk/speed so he probably won't be unbanned.

But I like this idea. It's sort of like Inverse where the concept is intuitive and doesn't immediately lend itself to powercreep.

 

[aaronarium]

I deeply apologize for doubleposting, but I thought of another OM idea that I'd like to see what people think of, and I just wanted to write it down before I forget.

Meshmons​

A different spin on the various “share attributes” OMs like Cross Evolution, Partners In Crime, and Chimera.

Premise:

• In Meshmons, each member of a team has the typing of the Pokémon to the left of it in the teambuilder, and the ability of the Pokémon to the right of it in the teambuilder.
  • For example, if from left to right, the order of Pokémon in the teambuilder is Aegislash>Toxapex>Hydreigon, Toxapex would be Steel/Ghost with the ability Levitate.
  • In other words, it’s about tailoring crazy combinations to counter whatever insane offensive or defensive utility the foe may craft. The catch is, teambuilding needs special attention, since whatever Pokémon you include will greatly influence two others.

Bans and Threats

• Standard OU banlist
• Powerful but rare typings/abilities, Pokémon with powerful stats and movepools that are encumbered by their type/ability.
  • EX: Aegislash for gifting Steel/Ghost, Clefable for offering up Magic Guard or Unaware, Toxapex for its bananas bulk bolstered by a new type and ability.
    • I feel like this is what needs some discussion so we can find a way to avoid complex bans whenever possible.

Q&A

• How do Pokémon with hardcoded/unchangable abilities work (like Mimikyu or Aegislash)?
  • These Pokémon do not bestow their abilities onto others. If you include them on a team, the Pokémon to the left of them will not have an ability at all. However, these Pokémon will still receive abilities from others, but bear in mind that that means you would have to deal with stuff like an Aegislash stuck in Shield Forme or a Mimikyu without any sort of decoy.
• What about the Pokémon at the ends of a team on the teambuilder?
  • The teambuilder "loops", so these 'mons link with each other. I.e., the Poké on the far left gets the typing of the Poké mon the far right, and the Poké on the far right gets the ability of the Poké on the far left.
    • This can also mean that there is an incentive to making teams with <6 Pokémon. By "closing the loop" sooner, you may end up making a more cohesive unit than if you padded the team out with 6 'mons.
• So what if I only have 2 Pokémon in my team?
  • Given the rules I have laid out, this would mean that each Pokémon gains the other's typing AND ability. This can lead to some crazy cores, but keep in mind that you risk much by only filling out 1/3 of your team.
• But Aaron, aren't you worried about crazy offensive/defensive powercreep?
  • haha funny joek

    

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Maybe a good name could be "Attribute Swap"?

Also, I think it's worth shouting out the numerous Pokés that would get a lot worse. Spectral Thief and CC coming off of 90 SpA is usable, but not great for Marshadow. Same with Cinderace, but he might see some good usage out of Scorching Sands and maybe Electro Ball. And you might think I'm nuts but Eternatus seems like it'll be in some dire straits with its miniscule physical (now special) movepool. He would still be a good wall with Toxic, Recover, and the bananas bulk/speed so he probably won't be unbanned.

But I like this idea. It's sort of like Inverse where the concept is intuitive and doesn't immediately lend itself to powercreep.

I really like attribute swap! It's my favorite so far.

As for unbans, eternatus still has insane stats and marshadow still has unresisted coverage so they're still scary. I could see eternatus with a dragon dance set and with draco meteor, recover and great bulk, that seems like too much. As for cinderace, I could see it being unbanned but it still has really strong overheats and shadow ball+focus blast for unresisted coverage. Melmetal also seems really weak since double iron bash is either replaced with flash cannon or steel beam. Flash cannon is far weaker and steel beam weakens you too much. It gets thunderbolt and ice beam but they have the same base power as ice punch and thunder punch with iron fist so still not great. The only thing I could see it use is an iron defense+body press set and I feel you could just use something like corviknight for that so melmetal is very weak.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Melmetal also seems really weak since double iron bash is either replaced with flash cannon or steel beam. Flash cannon is far weaker and steel beam weakens you too much. It gets thunderbolt and ice beam but they have the same base power as ice punch and thunder punch with iron fist so still not great.

Melmetal is still stupid bulky and stupid strong. Who in their right mind would look at Thunderbolt and Ice Beam off a base 143 stat and think "still not great"? That has always been great.

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Melmetal is still stupid bulky and stupid strong. Who in their right mind would look at Thunderbolt and Ice Beam off a base 143 stat and think "still not great"? That has always been great.

No stab on any of them on a slow pokemon with no boosting moves. I also don't remember melmetal's ice/thunder punches being threatening other than against pokemons that are weak to them. Sure it's strong but it loses a lot from the swap so it's not broken.

 

[ImperialGamer517]

No stab on any of them on a slow pokemon with no boosting moves. I also don't remember melmetal's ice/thunder punches being threatening other than against pokemons that are weak to them. Sure it's strong but it loses a lot from the swap so it's not broken.

If you say that it is broken why is it banned from OU? Even Pokemon that take neutral damage will be severely weakened.

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

If you say that it is broken why is it banned from OU? Even Pokemon that take neutral damage will be severely weakened.

Maybe 168 base power double iron bashes? Now it's options for steel stabs are flash cannon which deals less than half damage or steel beam which is a pseudo explosion. Bolt-Beam will also be very common with options like rhyperior, tyranitar, gyarados or marowak-a. Melmetal loses all of its most powerful moves.

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

Isn’t it 144 base power for DIB and not 168? Double Iron Bash is 60 BP and not 70.

 

[kakaks]

so i just had an idea of an om where base stats are used instead of the stats
BST CUP sorry if unoriginal
here, the base stat is used instead of the stat, and anything outside of battle that alters the stats is removed (basically ivs, evs and nature are removed).
Ex. instead of having 306 spatk, an alakazam would have 135 special attack
stats modifiers, like swords dance and calm mind would alter the stats normally
Bans: Seismic toss, Night shade, maybe dragon rage.
Unbans: dracovish

bumping this

 

[Tmi489]

bumping this

would likely be ho hell
when you increase every actual stat (like in lets go with candies), you increase bulk as both hp+def increases vs just atk
the opposite is true, the bst deflation would decrease bulk

example:
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 178-211 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo-Resolute Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 153-181 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO [129 actual spa vs 100 actual def)
ignore the % numbers in second count, as you cant get 100 hp in the calc: it would be 153% to 181% normally

 

[kakaks]

would likely be ho hell
when you increase every actual stat (like in lets go with candies), you increase bulk as both hp+def increases vs just atk
the opposite is true, the bst deflation would decrease bulk

example:
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 178-211 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo-Resolute Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 153-181 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO [129 actual spa vs 100 actual def)
ignore the % numbers in second count, as you cant get 100 hp in the calc: it would be 153% to 181% normally

no, you are not understanding, this makes every mon have their base stats as their stats, there is no candies

 

[Tmi489]

no, you are not understanding, this makes every mon have their base stats as their stats, there is no candies

the first part was just an anecdote to explain how the meta doesnt work
"base stat as their stats", as im getting it, means that mew actually gets 100 hp, 100 atk, etc.
in your meta the keldeo with 129 spa ohkos a 100 hp 100 spd mew

 

[kakaks]

the first part was just an anecdote to explain how the meta doesnt work
"base stat as their stats", as im getting it, means that mew actually gets 100 hp, 100 atk, etc.
in your meta the keldeo with 129 spa ohkos a 100 hp 100 spd mew

there are also many good defensive mons, like ferrothorn, mew, celebi and tangrowth

 

[DrPumpkinz]

there are also many good defensive mons, like ferrothorn, mew, celebi and tangrowth

And all of them have their defensive prowess neutered. Not only are they losing both HP and defenses compared to attackers only losing offenses, but HP normally scales faster than other stats (Mew normally has 341 HP and 236 everything else, assuming 31 IVs and no EVs) so the switch to using raw base stats reduces HP more than any other stat.

 

[Sectonia]

so i just had an idea of an om where base stats are used instead of the stats
BST CUP sorry if unoriginal
here, the base stat is used instead of the stat, and anything outside of battle that alters the stats is removed (basically ivs, evs and nature are removed).
Ex. instead of having 306 spatk, an alakazam would have 135 special attack
stats modifiers, like swords dance and calm mind would alter the stats normally

This is an interesting concept, but it runs into the problem of deflating bulk, which makes it so that teams can run over more passive teams, which actually would include stuff like balance teams. There's also the issue of the fact that you're effectively capping the bulk of everything. Averagemons did this last gen, but also capped the offensive power of mons. This meta could somewhat cap the offensive power, but with how much bulk is being capped on, you would see a notable increase in offensive teams because they can just overwhelm defensive teams. And as is, we already have enough metas based on stats, so it needs to really set itself apart from the rest of those metas, and right now, I just don't see much room for it to do that. And as mentioned above, HP is deflated significantly faster, which hurts bulk a lot more.

On a side note, I think it would be appreciated if people in this thread could find more things to talk about, so their post aren't just one lines. If you don't have much to say other than one line, then maybe try to find more to talk about so that you can give more constructive feedback and don't seem to be nitpicky about small stuff.

 

[kakaks]

This is an interesting concept, but it runs into the problem of deflating bulk, which makes it so that teams can run over more passive teams, which actually would include stuff like balance teams. There's also the issue of the fact that you're effectively capping the bulk of everything. Averagemons did this last gen, but also capped the offensive power of mons. This meta could somewhat cap the offensive power, but with how much bulk is being capped on, you would see a notable increase in offensive teams because they can just overwhelm defensive teams. And as is, we already have enough metas based on stats, so it needs to really set itself apart from the rest of those metas, and right now, I just don't see much room for it to do that. And as mentioned above, HP is deflated significantly faster, which hurts bulk a lot more.

On a side note, I think it would be appreciated if people in this thread could find more things to talk about, so their post aren't just one lines. If you don't have much to say other than one line, then maybe try to find more to talk about so that you can give more constructive feedback and don't seem to be nitpicky about small stuff.

maybe giving an 1.5 boost to hp? yeah, it now looks like the meta is pretty offensive

 

[in the hills]

maybe giving an 1.5 boost to hp? yeah, it now looks like the meta is pretty offensive

Reading comprehension took a hard hit today, nice one-liner

Metagame premise: First Blood

A 6v6 battle where whoever gets the first kill wins. Standard OU banlist and clauses apply.

Potential bans and threats:

This Metagame plays like a hybrid of OU and 1v1 -- games go quickly, and surprising techs can often pay off. Some sets unique to this meta:

Giga Diggersby

Diggersby @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Giga Impact
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- U-turn

Diggersby can try to end the game on the spot with Banded Giga Impact or U-turn out to maintain momentum.

Metal Burst Bisharp

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Metal Burst

This Bisharp can turn the tables at any point in the with Sash + Metal Burst. Further adding to the mindgames are Sucker Punch and Swords Dance. 50/50s everywhere...

Trap Keys

Klefki @ Eject Button
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fairy Lock
- Thunder Wave
- Light Screen
- Reflect

With Eject Button and Fairy Lock, Klefki can trap an enemy pokemon for one of your mons to KO on the next turn.

With switching and entry hazards available in this meta, no bans from 1v1 carry over into First Blood. This means that Focus Sash, Mimikyu, Perish Song, and more are all fair game.

I've played a lot of First Blood with friends without ever thinking to submit it as an OM, and it's really fun! From my testing, nothing seems to be overly broken just yet, but I will keep an eye out for the usual suspects of Dragapult, Porygon-Z, and Mimikyu.

EDIT: After further testing, Zeraora has been added to the watchlist.

Let me know what you think!

Anyways, so I'm not a hypocrite, I'd like to throw my support behind this meta. I think it's really interesting idea and even though it was previously listed under commonly rejected metagames last generation, I think more lax guidelines we have now would allow this metagame to exist due to it honestly not being very similar to either 1v1 nor OU, as the way this meta plays out is pretty different from both. Also on a side note, I think with someone who's as active as Mengy is within the community could garner support for this meta in any capacity given the chance. I think this meta would be really fun as one of the OMotM formats and should at the very least be given an opportunity. Cool submission meng ㋛

 

[Clefable]

I think [First Blood] is a really interesting idea ... Cool submission meng ㋛

Thanks for the shoutout In The Hills! ㋛

I'd like to share some of the sets I've been testing with SBPC and a few other users on PS. The metagame isn't fleshed out and these sets are not necessarily optimal, but they're sets I created with real situations from playtesting in mind:

Lure Dracozolt

Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 64 HP / 176 Atk / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Bolt Beak
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Spin

When I think of Dracozolt, I imagine a mon that is walled by Hippowdon and Ferrothorn and beats everything else. Well, this is a Dracozolt that beats Hippowdon and Ferrothorn and loses to everything else (kind of)!

The threat of Scarf Bolt Beak Dracozolt requires the opponent to play extremely predictably, which we can capitalize on by clicking Fire Spin and trapping the three main switchins in Hippowdon, Ferrothorn, and Zeraora. When Zeraora tries to Volt Switch out, we surprise it again with Volt Absorb.

Bulky CM Keldeo

Keldeo
Ability: Justified
EVs: 232 HP / 100 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

CM Keldeo crushes the bulky Toxapex/Blissey/Corviknight backbones behind a lot of First Blood teams, with an added bulky twist. Just like how the Dracozolt set works by bluffing Scarf, this set works by bluffing max speed while in reality only barely outpacing base 85s.

What does it gain by doing this? Well, with the extra bulk it can tank a Plasma Fists from Zeraora and OHKO back with +1 Pump, and going itemless means you switch easily into Alolan Marowak.

Pivot Shuckle

Shuckle @ Eject Pack
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Shell Smash

Sturdy is a godsend of an ability in a meta like this. Shuckle is a hazards lead that is hard to kill turn 1, with the added unexpected bonus of being able to slow pivot out once per game with the use of Shell Smash + Eject Pack. Surprising tempo plays like this can put you in the driver's seat in a metagame where momentum is everything.

If these sets are interesting to you, I encourage you to try the meta out! I've been laddering low ladder OU with First Blood teams as a way of testing them out.

EDIT: Here's the original post about First Blood.

 

[ringtomb]

I had always found it interesting when pokemon from lower tiers made appearances in highers ones, so I felt I would propose a meta game around that. I don't have a good name for it yet, but a team has to be comprised of 1 OU/UUBL, UU/RUBL, RU/NUBL, NU/PUBL, PU/ZUBL, and untiered/NFE/LC mon to form a team of 6. Certain mons would be banned would be powerful OU or UU mons that do not have decent counter play in defensive mons from lower tiers, such as crawdaunt or azumarill. Weather might also need to be restricted or banned because it might possibly have to well built team even with the mon restriction because weather abusers are in every tier. Are there any other idea on how the mon restriction could be altered, say 1 OU, 2 UU, 3 RU, ect? What would be a good name for this metagame?