Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

[BandedBodyPress]

Shouldn’t slot 1 and 6 gain the moves from each other because wrap-around physics?

I am debating that myself. I think that making those Team Members get moves from each other makes the meta easier to understand, but having them not would give an edge to the meta where not every Pokemon gains 2 extra moves and having 2 only gain 1 new move is a little more interesting to teambuild. Having written this out, I am now favoring 1 and 6 getting moves from each other.

 

[Cratersmash]

Also,shouldn’t the Regieleki in the example have Fire Blast since that’s Clefable’s slot 4?

 

[BandedBodyPress]

Also,shouldn’t the Regieleki in the example have Fire Blast since that’s Clefable’s slot 4?

Yep, thanks for catching that. Fixed

 

[Young Grasshopper]

Here's an idea I had recently:

Move tier shift: All "usually useless" attacking moves have their base power increased to a minimum of 75 and their secondary effect chance increased by 25%.

New threats:
-Multi hit moves will definitely need to be banned or exempted from the base power buff. I'd like to exempt them, but banning is the more consistent call.
-Fury cutter spam could be deadly. It's a good thing so much stuff resists bug.
-Bite/headbutt/twister and other flinch spam could be very annoying. Thankfully inner focus and steadfast are already semi-common abilities.
-Stat raises and stat drops are much more common.
-Semi-trapping moves might need to be suspect-tested.
-The now-buffed always-hitting moves, which are relatively common, might be good enough that evasion buffing could get unbanned.

 

[Dust Biter]

Here's an idea I had recently:

Move tier shift: All "usually useless" attacking moves have their base power increased to a minimum of 75 and their secondary effect chance increased by 25%.

New threats:
-Multi hit moves will definitely need to be banned or exempted from the base power buff. I'd like to exempt them, but banning is the more consistent call.
-Fury cutter spam could be deadly. It's a good thing so much stuff resists bug.
-Bite/headbutt/twister and other flinch spam could be very annoying. Thankfully inner focus and steadfast are already semi-common abilities.
-Stat raises and stat drops are much more common.
-Semi-trapping moves might need to be suspect-tested.
-The now-buffed always-hitting moves, which are relatively common, might be good enough that evasion buffing could get unbanned.

I think moves should be buffed as a pet mod case-by-case, and doing it with your formula is going to lead to many bans. For instance, powder snow now has a 25% chance to freeze.

 

[Young Grasshopper]

I think moves should be buffed as a pet mod case-by-case, and doing it with your formula is going to lead to many bans. For instance, powder snow now has a 25% chance to freeze.

Hm, maybe just buffing the power and leaving secondary effects alone?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I'm pretty sure there's already a pet mod dedicated to buffing moves.

I think the main problem with this idea is that what moves are considered "usually useless" is hella arbitrary and is subject to change at the whims of whoever decides where moves go.

That said, should this actually become a meta, I think instead of raising everything to 75 (with it being very unclear what would happen to moves stronger than 75 power) I think you should just apply a multiplier to everything, probably 50%. Also definitely drop the secondary effect thing. The less moving parts in an OM, the better.

Also,

-The now-buffed always-hitting moves, which are relatively common, might be good enough that evasion buffing could get unbanned.

Absolutely not.

 

[Scolipede69]

idea: Multimons
each team has 12 pokemon
ou tier
with 12 pokemon you have more diverse team options
threats include hazard stacking because you can now have multiple stackers on the same team
regenerator might become banned
is the name good enough?

 

[UT]

idea: Multimons
each team has 12 pokemon
ou tier
with 12 pokemon you have more diverse team options

I am afraid this is on the list of commonly rejected OM ideas.

 

[Isaiah]

idea: Multimons
each team has 12 pokemon
ou tier
with 12 pokemon you have more diverse team options

This can be played already on the sim by challenging someone to OU and changing the max team size:

/challenge gen8ou @@@ Max Team Size = 12

 

[Scolipede69]

didn't know that sorry

 

[Mow-Bile-Walrus]

True Power Mons: All unviable/lower tier Abilities are buffed to be at least OU/UU viable
(I.E Healer would heal an Ally in addition to healing its status effects at a 30% chance, In singles it would do the same except for itself, Shed Skin would be the same as it was before except when under sun the chance to heal it's own status effect is doubled [from 30-60%), and final example Keen Eye makes all contact moves have 1.5x accuracy and all non-contact moves have a 1.1x accuracy on top of being immune to Accuracy and Evasion effects)

 

[UT]

True Power Mons: All unviable/lower tier Abilities are buffed to be at least OU/UU viable
(I.E Healer would heal an Ally in addition to healing its status effects at a 30% chance, In singles it would do the same except for itself, Shed Skin would be the same as it was before except when under sun the chance to heal it's own status effect is doubled [from 30-60%), and final example Keen Eye makes all contact moves have 1.5x accuracy and all non-contact moves have a 1.1x accuracy on top of being immune to Accuracy and Evasion effects)

This is a series of non-objective changes, and therefore is a Pet Mod, not an OM. Other Metas have overarching, uniformly applied rules and don't make changes to individual mons/moves/abilities.

Also, welcome to Smogon!

 

[DrPumpkinz]

True Power Mons: All unviable/lower tier Abilities are buffed to be at least OU/UU viable
(I.E Healer would heal an Ally in addition to healing its status effects at a 30% chance, In singles it would do the same except for itself, Shed Skin would be the same as it was before except when under sun the chance to heal it's own status effect is doubled [from 30-60%), and final example Keen Eye makes all contact moves have 1.5x accuracy and all non-contact moves have a 1.1x accuracy on top of being immune to Accuracy and Evasion effects)

While this is a Pet Mod, it sounds like a pretty interesting Pet Mod, so if it doesn't already exist (it probably does) you should go to the Pet Mod forums and start it up.

Just uhhh, probably rephrase the opening line. Measuring abilities with usage tiers doesn't really make any sense.

 

[AquaticPanic]

BATSmons
name pending

​

Despite the seemingly bizarre name, the premise is rather simple: Pokémon lose access to all moves that match their typing. (This restriction is extended to include Ou-of-Battle Form Changes and Pre-Evolutions, so you can thank Rotom Fan for your Rotom Wash no longer getting Defog). Loosely inspired by STABmons, this simple change affects both offensive and defensive teams alike: Offensive Pokémon now must rely on their coverage, and have a pretty noticeable decrease in damage when they cannot have STAB access, as well as a decent amount of them losing set-up options; while Defensive Pokémon largely miss out on recovery options and Bulky Waters no longer being able to use Scald.

The meta's playstyle is essentially based on figuring out Pokémon that succeed at using non-stab moves and Pokémon who get great off-type utility, as well as some Pokémon who can find a work around to using a STAB move (Such as Drizzle + Weather Ball or Tri Attack + Refrigerate). Here are some set examples me and some friends have come up with:

Big List

Some mons stay roughly the same, or only lose a single move from their standard sets


Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Substitute / Stealth Rock



Melmetal @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Thunder Wave / Ice Punch



Kartana @ Choice Scarf / Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Psycho Cut
- Knock Off
- Defog / Swords Dance
(banded sets don't really have a fourth move, but I'm sure they still work)



Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Soft-Boiled



Polteageist @ White Herb / Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Dark Pulse
- Stored Power
- Strength Sap



Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- U-turn



Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- First Impression



Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Tri Attack



Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off



Slowbro-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
- Iron Tail
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Ice Beam
- Flamethrower




Thanks to Weather and Terrain + Weather Ball and Nature Power, some mons are able to actually keep a STAB move! That means you should expect to see Weather cores more often as well.


Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nature Power
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt



Tapu Koko @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nature Power
- Grass Knot / Roost
- Defog / Roost
- U-turn



Pelipper @ Damp Rock / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Weather Ball
- U-turn
(Something to note is that Pelipper gets a pseudo-STAB in Weather Ball, but it also loses Roost.)



Omastar @ White Herb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Spikes



Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Weather Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave



Some other notable Pokémon we didn't really make sets for, but still found something notable to be said of include:

Slurpuff, as it is your only Sticky Webs option

The alternate Weather Setters, as alongside Instant Weather + Weather Ball, they also get Set-Up Moves

Aurorus, as Refrigerate allows it to get Ice moves

Dhelmise, as its ability essentially allows it to get Steel STAB

Despite losing Soft-Boiled and Wish, the pink blobs are still thriving, given the Metagame's drop in power level allowing them to take hits better than before. While they lack any truly good way of staying in, Rest + Natural Cure is a cheesy way to use Recovery with them

Stealth Rock + Recovery is an exceedingly rare combo, unless I am mistaken it can only be done by Hippo, Celebi, Mew and Dunsparce, with Hippo clearly being the better of the 3 (Mew is very likely to get Quickbanned)

Essentially the best Dragon Dance mon around, can deal with lack of STAB through set-up

Missing Heavy Slam's damage hurts, but with Corv and Skarm both losing Roost, Steela steps right back into the spotlight thanks to Leech Seed allowing it to keep itself healthy

Libero. That's all.

Stunfisk is not viable but its now laughing at everyone who sait it was a stupid idea to have a signature move that doesn't match your type

Flygon gets acces to Roost + Defog + U-Turn with a Rocks resistance and Spikes immunity, which is definetly at least worth a niche and is very likely one of the best defoggers

Technical Bans

Ditto's only move is Normal-Type. As such, Ditto cannot learn any move in BATSmons and is thus banned

As stated earlier, this mod treats form changes just as STABmons would, meaning Pokémon cannot learn moves that mach one of its out-of-battle form changes. Silvally has a form for every type, meaning that it loses all of its moves.



Potential Quickbans


Due to the metagame's overall damage output being lower, Clefable simply lives a lot more than it should be able to, while not entirely missing Moonblast that much thanks to Gen 1 Movepools being cracked. While missing Moonlight, it still gets Soft-Boiled and is generally extremelly hard to take down, partially thanks to a great mono-typing that demands the rare Poison and Steel coverage to take down and partially because of Unaware and Magic Guard increasing its defensive utilities, and Clefable also has a multitude of viable distinct sets. We have had a few games and Clefable is definitely in the radar.



This is an easier quickban to explain: Mew gets everything. In a metagame where off-type moves are what is most important, Mew would very easily dominate the meta by the simple fact it can do whatever one needs it to and be very very centralising.



Potential Uber Unbans


THE dracovish
WITH NO fishious rend



Both of these Pokémon are Ubers largely because of their STAB combo and Signature Moves. Without those, there's no reason to keep them gone



This dude does not get a movepool



Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1484790666
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1484841627
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1484852381
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1484945971


Conclusion

As you can see, despite the change being very simple, it shakes up the meta by quite a lot and incentivates creativity in sets. The replays above have shown quite a few different strategies and playstyles possible in this new metagame.



Questions for the Community:

- Due to it being entirely against the OM's concept, should Libero be banned, despite its only user being Scorbunny and Raboot?
- Would there be other potential Uber drops than the ones listed in this post?
- Does this sound like a balanced concept, where no archetype in particular becomes too overbearing?
- Despite being reductive in nature, does this meta have enough interesting tech to compensate for the lost moves?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I'm not so sure about unbanning Spectrier, as it still has access to its SubDisable Dark Pulse set that it used to beat Blissey before it got banned.

This sounds like an OM that's been submitted and rejected in the past (I don't know for sure if that's true, but I know it's a common idea and I know it hasn't been made into an OM yet) but I think removing status moves of the same type helps a lot in steering the meta away from "OU but everyone is 66% weaker"

 

[theotherguytm]

A general rule that gets repeated a lot in this thread is OMs that restrict people are much less likely to be successful than OMs that add more choices.

This OM is a lot more interesting than your typical "nerf everyone" OM, but I still think it suffers from the same flaws as the others. Volt Switch as a move is basically shadow-banned. Defog has drastically reduced distribution. A lot of Pokemon lose what makes them fun/useful to use (Volc losing QD, Arctozolt losing Bolt Beak+Blizzard/Freeze Dry, Ferrothorn losing Leech Seed etc), and that pretty much artificially deflates the viable roster. It's not even like a "lower tiers get to shine" thing, since you have no DD Salamence, no Boomburst Exploud etc etc. Oh and Pex still gets Haze+Recover soooo ban that shit.

 

[BandedBodyPress]

- Despite being reductive in nature, does this meta have enough interesting tech to compensate for the lost moves?

I doubt it

 

[urkerab]

- Due to it being entirely against the OM's concept, should Libero be banned, despite its only user being Scorbunny and Raboot?

NOSTABmons banned Protean, but an alternative approach would be to subject it to the equivalent of Torment.

 

[Dust Biter]

100% Crits

Do you like laddering but hate suffering through 200+ turn games against stall? This might be the format for you!

In this OU-based meta, all attacks are critical hits, effectively boosting the power of all mons by 50%. This means the strongest breakers available will have little that can stand in their way, making stall unviable.

This isn’t to say there is no variety in teambuilding, however. Those powerful breakers will often be outsped by faster, but weaker opponents, which will in turn not be strong enough to break certain bulky pivots.

Threats:

Type: Null has solid bulk for something that can hold eviolite, and what makes it especially useful here is its immunity to crits, reducing the damage taken from all attacks by 33%. However, it still lacks reliable recovery, and is vulnerable to Knock Off.

Tapu Lele, on top of being a strong special attacker with a solid STAB combo, grants its team immunity to priority attacks, which will likely be a popular method of speed control. This powerful utility on an already good mon would make it suspect worthy.

Inteleon has the ability sniper, which lets it deal 50% more damage with crits, raising its special attack to 187.5, while possessing excellent 120 speed. With its attack becoming 127.5, it could feasibly go mixed and use Aqua Jet and Sucker Punch to handle faster enemies.

 

[BandedBodyPress]

Do you like laddering but hate suffering through 200+ turn games against stall? This might be the format for you!

In this OU-based meta, all attacks are critical hits, effectively boosting the power of all mons by 50%. This means the strongest breakers available will have little that can stand in their way, making stall unviable.

I don’t think a meta where the entire thought process behind it was “I don’t like playing against stall” would be very successful.

It’s not just stall, but bulky offense, balance and all other playstyles beside hyper offense, too. Playing against stall is still more enjoyable then losing your fairy type and being swept by a -6 Specs Dragapult spamming Draco Meteor.

 

[Dust Biter]

>I don’t think a meta where the entire thought process behind it was “I don’t like playing against stall” would be very successful.

I believe stall-haters make up a large enough chunk of the playerbase to give this format a niche.

>losing your fairy type and being swept by a -6 Specs Dragapult spamming Draco Meteor.

There are many ways to deal with this. Choice scarfs let you outspeed it at the cost of a power-boosting item, which would give bulky pivots a place to exist since not everything is focusing 100% on damage. Priority moves are especially useful against pult in particular, with it being frail and weak to ice and dark. Sturdy + hdb would let you take nearly any hit and retaliate hard. Abilities like swift swim cleanly overtake pult’s speed.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I'm not sure what bulky pivots you're thinking of, but the threshold of "bulky" is a lot stricter when everything has a free band/specs and the likes of Draco and Superpower never get weaker.

Everything will absolutely be focusing 100% on damage, until someone finds a successful stall build which would focus 0% on damage. Any sort of midground will simply get bowled over by the onslaught of hyperoffense crits.

 

[Dust Biter]

I'm not sure what bulky pivots you're thinking of, but the threshold of "bulky" is a lot stricter when everything has a free band/specs and the likes of Draco and Superpower never get weaker.

Everything will absolutely be focusing 100% on damage, until someone finds a successful stall build which would focus 0% on damage. Any sort of midground will simply get bowled over by the onslaught of hyperoffense crits.

If you focus 100% on damage you will be outsped and ohko’d by things such as scarf pult, scarf zeraora, sand stream excadrill, etc
This is why you need either priority (sacrificing damage for going first) or bulky pivots

 

[AquaticPanic]

I feel like its just a fundimentally flawed concept. It doesn't just invalidate Stall, but also pretty much any means of defensive counterplay out there. It's impossible to have "Bulky" Pivots because even the fattest mons are going to get overwhelmed by the repeated crits. It is impossible to switch in anything without getting massively crippled, leaving Revenge Killing as your main option of even bringing anything into the field. The game devolves to Fast mons getting OHKOs or 2HKOs for the whole match which imo isn't really that insteresting.

I guess the meta succeeds at getting rid of Stall, but it also gets rid of prety much any playstyle that isn't Hyper Offense