Meloetta

[Thorhammer]

Deoxys got a new method for changing formes that allowed it to take on those formes in different games, thereby having gameplay relevance.

I don't think anyone wants Meloetta to lose the ability to swap formes mid-battle, but it would be nice to also be able to set Meloetta-P as its starting forme when entering battle if desired. That would make it much more usable.

 

[superbadd]

Exactly. ^ Look at her offensive stats. Meloetta-p is basically another version of darkrai and skymin the only thing missing is a kickass ability like scrappy and extreme speed.

 

[b2j135]

Meloetta-P is a double-edged sword, Ive been playing this set on the Wi-Fi Battle Finder with about 50% win/loss ratio. She's got GREAT Attak and Speed but her defenses jsut seem to disappear once she changes.

Meloetta-P @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA) Could also use Hasty so Relic Song isn't hindered, not recommended though.
~ Close Combat
~ Quick Attack
~ Ice Punch
~ Relic Song

The hardest thing to do with her is to find the RIGHT moment to switch in and setup her forme change.
My teams usually consist of Pokemon that allow at least a couple of free moves by using sleep and parahax (Amoongus, T-wave wish pass Jirachi) and of course screeners help a lot too(Serperior, Claydol, Espeon).
But in the end if you don't have some kind of entry hazards up or maybe someway of making youself faster (Tailwind?) she won't say on he field for very long.

However I have yet to try out Meloetta-A yes and see how something like a CalmMind set works.

 

[HardCore]

Looked through a few pages didn't see many sets that didn't include relic song, so I'd like to bring up how TR and Wonder Room Meloetta could be effective. TR, Psyshock, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Ice. Of course specs and scarf will probably be standard in whatever tier it ends up in.

Making a nice gimmick Wonder Room Meloetta for the fun of it could work out. Only so many Pokemon have a defensive stat that would be flipped around in their favor, and for the Therians it probably wouldn't make a difference between their defenses. KOing a few Blissey, Chansey, and Jirachi would be pretty funny too. Meloetta's High Special Defense is just what is needed in the current meta for it to survive, so it could be some fun fooling around with.

 

[Dragontongue195040]

Also what about sleep cause? Any users of meloetta P won't dare to use sleep inducers for fear of setting off sleep cause with relic song. That isn't really much of a problem because she synergizes horribly with most of the spore users (breloom, amoonguss, smeargle) but i'm just pointing that out.

 

[HardCore]

Also what about sleep cause? Any users of meloetta P won't dare to use sleep inducers for fear of setting off sleep cause with relic song. That isn't really much of a problem because she synergizes horribly with most of the spore users (breloom, amoonguss, smeargle) but i'm just pointing that out.

That won't do anything, because sleep clause would just prevent the sleep. I mean if Meloetta's Relic Song does get the sleep before Breloom its not so terrible. I'd rather save Meloetta for late game anyway and let Breloom force a hole into the team much earlier in the game.

 

[viol and bass]

The problem comes when playing on a cartridge: Sleep isn't prevented, thus if a Meloetta user had already slept a Pokémon with, say, Breloom, and Relic Song happened to sleep another Pokémon, that player would be breaking sleep clause and would automatically lose.

This problem marks a real difference between cartridge and simulator play, which is something I'm really surprised hasn't been dealt with considering Smogon's longstanding philosophy of mirroring cartridge play as closely as possible.

Edit: I don't see why using the variety of sleep clause that we use is any different than banning critical hits, for instance. It's not a big deal but it's always bothered me a little bit.

 

[BurningMan]

Looked through a few pages didn't see many sets that didn't include relic song, so I'd like to bring up how TR and Wonder Room Meloetta could be effective. TR, Psyshock, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Ice. Of course specs and scarf will probably be standard in whatever tier it ends up in.

TR is horribly outclassed by Reuniclus who has much better bulk, lower speed and Magic Guard to prevent LO recoil and hazard damage.

Almost every set not abusing Relic Song turns you into a bulkier but slower Alakazam without Magic Guard.

Shrang posted this some pages ago and i think that this could be the only Meloetta set that isn't outclassed by other Psychic or Fighting Types.

I've been using this set:

Meloetta @ Expert Belt
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Nature: Hasty
- Relic Song
- Close Combat
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice

Basically, the idea of the set is to set up multiple layers of hazards, and then spam Relic Song to force switches. Counters to Meloetta-A tend to be weak to Meloetta-P (Blissey, Snorlax, Tyranitar), while counters to Meloetta-P tend to be weak to Meloetta-A (Skarmory, Gliscor). The idea is to spam Relic Song and keep changing forms and stay one step ahead of the opposition. With these games going on, you can probably HP Ice a Gliscor or something like that and secure a sweep for Excadrill and stuff. With Fighting resists removed, Meloetta-P can handily clean up teams by itself as well.

EDIT: Oh yea, the EVs used let you outspeed Adamant Lucario as Meloetta-A and Alakazam as Meloetta-P.

It should be noted that this was used in DW OU where Garchomp, Thundurus and Excadril still roam free and where the Therian Formes are not released.

 

[FIERCEDEITY777]

TR is horribly outclassed by Reuniclus who has much better bulk, lower speed and Magic Guard to prevent LO recoil and hazard damage.

Almost every set not abusing Relic Song turns you into a bulkier but slower Alakazam without Magic Guard.

Shrang posted this some pages ago and i think that this could be the only Meloetta set that isn't outclassed by other Psychic or Fighting Types.



It should be noted that this was used in DW OU where Garchomp, Thundurus and Excadril still roam free and where the Therian Formes are not released.

On a related note, it has come to my attention that Meloetta-P is going to be the best user of Close Combat. Terrakion may have it beat by 2 attack, but meleotta-p is blistering fast. But I'm sure you all know that.

Would this be too gimmicky?

Meloetta @ Life Orb
~Relic Song
~Close Combat
~Swagger
~Psych Up

Relic Song -> Swagger -> Psych Up -> sweep with Close Combat.

Well, maybe something like this would be much less of a gamble:
Meloetta @ Life Orb
~Relic Song
~Close Combat
~Hone Claws
~Stone Edge

It also appears to be one of only a few pokemon that can learn Hone Claws along with an imperfect-accuracy sleep inducing move. Is it possible to abuse that?

 

[shofly12]

I feel like that the Relic Song->Swagger->Psych Up-> CC thing is a bit too...risky. I doubt people would keep their confused Pokemon in, and once you Psych Up, the gimmick is up and they know what you're up to. Also, any ghost basically forces you out.

 

[Dragontongue195040]

On a related note, it has come to my attention that Meloetta-P is going to be the best user of Close Combat. Terrakion may have it beat by 2 attack, but meleotta-p is blistering fast. But I'm sure you all know that.

Would this be too gimmicky?

Meloetta @ Life Orb
~Relic Song
~Close Combat
~Swagger
~Psych Up

Relic Song -> Swagger -> Psych Up -> sweep with Close Combat.

Well, maybe something like this would be much less of a gamble:
Meloetta @ Life Orb
~Relic Song
~Close Combat
~Hone Claws
~Stone Edge

It also appears to be one of only a few pokemon that can learn Hone Claws along with an imperfect-accuracy sleep inducing move. Is it possible to abuse that?

I like the set but meloetta P's defenses just aren't enough to take a hit from most pokemon at +2. Also remember that MP needs a whole turn just to become itself; using another two turns for set up just won't cut it for a fast frail sweeper like Meloetta-P. The set is good but would be very hard to pull off.

As with hone claws+relic song, relic song has perfect accuracy, just a low chance of causing sleep so HC won't help in that end.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

When it comes to Meloetta-P, one should never ever attempt to set up outside of Relic Song; just all-out attacking would suffice, given Meloetta's decent coverage and power with just Life Orb/Expert Belt and its high stats. Hone Claws is also just a horrible move in general.

The only set up Meloetta should probably EVER attempt is Calm Mind, which is a way different story with the normal forme. To me, Meloetta in general just destroys more stuff in her normal forme, given her sheer power after just one Calm Mind and her ability to set up on pretty much any special attacker due to her naturally high SpD stat. I mean, even with Leftovers, Offensive CM Meloetta just OHKOes all Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage, sans the stupid and outdated Chople Berry versions, and 2HKOes Blissey. Outside of Thundurus and Alakazam, you typically don’t see this because of a lack of strong boosting attackers with Focus Blast (I’m looking at you Latios, Chandelure).

The main downsides to all this is Meloetta’s subpar Speed stat, equivalent with Porygon-Z’s own (although its bulk does offset that quite a bit), and average defensive typing (it’s basically neutral to everything except Psychic- and Ghost-type moves). As far as SubCM goes, I have no experience with it, although I’d probably use Jirachi for this matter because it’s immune to Toxic Spikes, sports great resistances, and has the ability to tank some physical hits.

 

[Schpoonman]

Never really used Meloetta-A much myself (used a few CM sets ages ago, but I usually hacked those teams up after they just fell flat in general), but I think it stands to mention that Meloetta has base 100 HP, meaning it can set up 101 HP Subs.

Besides that, I've used Meloetta-P much more, and Jolly with a Life Orb is absolutely titanic. You just ruin some prominent metagame threats. Freaking Skarmory basically has to come in on the revenge or on Ice Punch/Return/Shadow Claw, as it's 3HKOd by Close Combat; it takes up to 51% from Jolly LO CC.

Now, you can even replace Return with Ice Punch and take care of stuff like Gliscor and Landorus-T. Even after Intimidate, 252/0 Landorus-T is highly susceptible to being OHKOd with Ice Punch after Rocks. Thundurus- and Tornadus-T are right out if they aren't Scarfed, and they certainly can't switch in on anything but Shadow Claw; even CC will do well over 50% to the both of them, and both Ice Punch and Return will OHKO uninvested variants after Rocks.

Which reminds me, I really need to make a new team with Meloetta-P now that it's fully legal.

TL;DR Use Meloetta-P she's gonna kill everyone.

 

[Schpoonman]

(it’s basically neutral to everything except Psychic- and Ghost-type moves)

Uh, it's definitely weak to Bug and Dark in Aria Forme. That's Pursuit and U-turn. Whatever, you can't really switch in on a +anything Meloetta in the first place unless it's something like Scarf T-Tar on Psychic.

 

[shrang]

Another set I've been considering (which I will test as soon as it's released) would be Specs Meloetta. 128 Special Attack is pretty damn high, while even though Psychic is a pretty iffy STAB, Normal STAB is actually pretty quite workable. STAB Hyper Voice looks pretty strong, while Meloetta's coverage is excellent as well. Something like:

Meloetta @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Nature: Modest / Timid
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast
- Thunder
- U-turn / Trick

Sounds pretty legit to me.

 

[Groombridge]

The tricky thing about Meloetta is figuring out what exactly to do with it: it has so many options that picking just one is hard, and trying to be a jack-of-all-trades generally makes it underwhelming.

So I decided to just ignore most of its moves. It picked up Last Resort from the move tutors, which Mel-P can make tremendous use of. Last Resort itself increased in power from Gen IV, from 130BP to 140BP. This is the most powerful attack Meloetta has - in fact, it's one of the strongest Normal attacks there is outside of Ursaring's Guts Facade.

This set is essentially the same as Fake Out/Last Resort Ambipom, but its 'setup' move is different, and it's faster and has considerably more power on the LR. The 'strategy' (i.e. the only possible way to use it) is to weaken or eliminate priority users/Rocks, Steels and Ghosts/Intimidaters, then come in to revenge something. Use Relic Song, transform and go stomping.

Giving it a clear run is the hard part, but instead of trying to sweep, it makes a nice surprise wallbreaker too. Last Resort generally 2HKOs Gliscor, Tentacruel and Amoonguss, who frequently switch in to block Fighting attacks. Once you've revealed Last Resort, Mel-P becomes very wallable indeed, but I guess you can use that to your advantage by predicting switches to Ghosts etc. There's also the 20% chance of sleep from Relic Song, always a bonus.

Meloetta @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
- Relic Song
- Last Resort

Totally ridiculous, but it throws people off balance and it rips chunks out of unprepared teams. Goes nicely with Magnezone to remove Skarm and Scizor, TTar to remove Ghosts and Hydreigon in general.

 

[Shouting]

The problem is getting rid of the Rocks,Steels Ghosts, etc. But even worse is that the set above (Relic Song/Thunderbolt/HP Ice/Close Combat) pretty much does what that set accomplishes (KOing Gliscor etc.) without having to the extensive prep work.

 

[FIERCEDEITY777]

I like the set but meloetta P's defenses just aren't enough to take a hit from most pokemon at +2. Also remember that MP needs a whole turn just to become itself; using another two turns for set up just won't cut it for a fast frail sweeper like Meloetta-P. The set is good but would be very hard to pull off.

Yeah that's true.

As with hone claws+relic song, relic song has perfect accuracy, just a low chance of causing sleep so HC won't help in that end.

I was talking about Sing =P

Accuracy Mod/Sing's Accuracy
+0: 55
+1: 73
+2: 91
+3: 110

Again, considering Meloetta-P's frailty I would just boost with HC once. I wouldn't consider boosting it further unless the opponent is asleep. But you have to admit a base 128 speed Sleep with ~91 acc could prove very useful. (Sing on the switch-in. Pummel with CC. Rinse, repeat.)

 

[Electrolyte]

I was talking about Sing =P

Accuracy Mod/Sing's Accuracy
+0: 55
+1: 73
+2: 91
+3: 110

Again, considering Meloetta-P's frailty I would just boost with HC once. I wouldn't consider boosting it further unless the opponent is asleep. But you have to admit a base 128 speed Sleep with ~91 acc could prove very useful. (Sing on the switch-in. Pummel with CC. Rinse, repeat.)

That sounds quite gimmicky. Remember that relic song already has a 20% chance to sleep so if it works then you've basically just wasted a moveslot. Also, as Dragontongue said before, it is quite hard for a not-so-bulky sweeper like MP to set up for 3 turns, just to use a move that has the same effect of relic song. I mean, if you think about it, at +2 Sing still only has a 71% higher probability of sleep. Besides, MP is not really the statusing type; it should just come in, wreck damge, and switch out.

 

[Machi]

Also, as Dragontongue said before, it is quite hard for a not-so-bulky sweeper like MP to set up for 3 turns, just to use a move that has the same effect of relic song. I mean, if you think about it, at +2 Sing still only has a 71% higher probability of sleep. Besides, MP is not really the statusing type; it should just come in, wreck damge, and switch out.

Pretty much this - as has been said earlier in the thread I believe it was Katakiri and from my own experience the only possible boosting move M-P should carry is Relic Song especially since this thread discusses her viability at OU (well this is in the OU section). Meaning that you have to account for the fact that there are very hard hitting mons that will hit M-P on her weaker defense while she is in Aria, even then M-P is not particularly bulky either with only slightly higher Def than Aria. The convenience of boosting with Relic Song is basically to pick off a weakened mon that she outspeeds or at the very least can tank a hit from switch to Pirouette form and proceed to clean up whatever is left of the opponents side, since she doesn't have that much choice in coverage of moves given that two slots are accounted for (Close Combat and Relic Song - the former leading her quite open to revenge kills is why I tend to save Meloetta more as a late game cleaner). Even better is the fact that its relatively easy to pull off Relic Song because many aren't exactly too sure what your Meloetta will run.

Moreover, Fiery your set utilizes Life Orb so add that to the damage she will be taking, because your opponent would have to be pretty bad to leave Meloetta unscathed during those turns of set up (possible Passive damage included), and you've basically have a mon with a very short life span to hardly warrant being viable.

 

[Duck Chris]

What about the possibility of using hone claws on a mixed set. So...

Meloetta @ Life Orb
Relic Song
Hone Claws
Thunder
Close Combat

Where the plan is to hone claws for the accuracy, thunder for the paralysis, or switch forms for a +1 CC. Seems kinda gimmicky but might work

 

[Schpoonman]

I really don't think Meloetta has any business running a mixed set. Zero whatsoever. Does she have fan-fucking-tastic stats on both ends? Yes, but it's not like Infernape who doesn't need to spend a turn switching between Flamethrower and Close Combat. That turn you spent changing to Aria Forme so you could hit Gyarados with Thunder just let him set up a Sub and a DD and you got swept for your trouble.

 

[Sewa]

You got the wrong example: Aria Meloetta has enough SpA to outright kill Gyarados. It even dents Skarmory, one of the best Phys walls, while keeping Ttar and pink blobs at bay.

 

[VaporeonIce]

While I agree that Meloetta going mixed probably isn't the best idea, Relic Song isn't exactly a "free" turn. It's a 75 BP STAB attack, and when Meloetta-A uses it, it's coming off of a base 128 stat. Oh, and it has a 20% chance to put something to sleep.

And, in the situation you mentioned, Meloetta-P can just hit Gyarados with Thunder without changing forme, since even uninvested with a neutral nature, it OHKOs the Sub+DD set after Stealth Rock. The real problems that set has are priority moves and generic walls/bulky Pokeon who aren't weak to either of its moves (Gliscor, Celebi, Landorus-T, Volcarona, and even Metagross, since it has the special bulk to comfortably take a Meloetta-P Thunder). Oh, and Thundurus-T, who isn't even a wall.

Generally, Meloetta should be trying to smash face from either the special side or the physical side, since it doesn't have the coverage to really pull off both (thanks to having to take up a moveslot with Relic Song...Normal typing isn't so good). I'd say its biggest problems are bulky steels who aren't weak to Fighting (Scizor, Metagross, Jirachi), who can take hits from either side well enough, since Meloetta doesn't have a hugely powerful Fire move. Unfortunately for Meloetta, those are really common.

 

[FIERCEDEITY777]

Do we know if Relic Song still transforms you if it's used against a ghost-type?