still no rp?
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Marowak: The Gen II Powerhouse
- Thread starter boyofrito
- Start date
I am sure that this has been mentioned before a bunch of times, but not in this thread, so I will state it again- Bonemerang hits twice, which in the previous generation only really allowed him to break substitutes. Now, however, it also allows him to kill in one go not only focus banded pokemon (which, for some horrible reason, it would not do in generation 4...) but also pokemon with the new and improved version of Sturdy. It is also worth mentioning that basically every pokemon with Sturdy (every one that I can think of at the moment, anyway) is either rock or steel, which means super-effective Bonmerang, which means dead things (if it hits).
It's not something to really "try for," but if you somehow get gravity up (in a non doubles/triples match) Bonemerang becomes superior to Earthquake, losing it's miss chance and retaining it's double hit property. Furthermore, two hits means two chances to crit (again, in this gen), which can be a lifesaver against anything with beefed up defenses (and with wak's attack, it's going to HURT even if only half the attack is a crit). Furthermore, I'm sure that some things with hone claws (or better yet, coil) have access to baton pass, so if you somehow got those onto Marowak, Stone Edge and Bonemerang would become more viable/accurate. Of course, none of this fixes his speed, but they are things to note about some of his moves.
Basically, multiple hit moves seem to have been fixed in this generation in more ways than one, making Bonemerang possibly viable (though probably not in doubles/triples where you can hit multiple pokes with Quake'). Still, you would think that they could finally fix it so that it was two seperate 90% chances to hit...
It's not something to really "try for," but if you somehow get gravity up (in a non doubles/triples match) Bonemerang becomes superior to Earthquake, losing it's miss chance and retaining it's double hit property. Furthermore, two hits means two chances to crit (again, in this gen), which can be a lifesaver against anything with beefed up defenses (and with wak's attack, it's going to HURT even if only half the attack is a crit). Furthermore, I'm sure that some things with hone claws (or better yet, coil) have access to baton pass, so if you somehow got those onto Marowak, Stone Edge and Bonemerang would become more viable/accurate. Of course, none of this fixes his speed, but they are things to note about some of his moves.
Basically, multiple hit moves seem to have been fixed in this generation in more ways than one, making Bonemerang possibly viable (though probably not in doubles/triples where you can hit multiple pokes with Quake'). Still, you would think that they could finally fix it so that it was two seperate 90% chances to hit...
The main issue with Bonemerang being useful to kill Sturdy pokemon is that the ones in OU are better dealt with by SE/Fire Punch (Forry and Skarm). Everything else is relatively rare, the next most used probably being Donphan who is neutral to it. Frankly in OU it's not worth risking the accuracy drop (or wasting time setting up Gravity/Hone Claws Pass) since none of the Sturdy users are hit hard by Bonemerang.
I know it's outdated stuff, but BDrum @ Salac gives Marowak the same attack as 1 Swords Dance @ Thick Club. So the only thing we're accomplishing with the former set is a Speed boost, which doesn't save Marowak because it is so slow (and it is losing 75% of its health in the process). Like previously mentioned, Marowak is not a good BDer.
Also Bonemerang has twice the chance of critical hitting, but its critical hits are considerably weaker than a CH from EQ. Assuming 1 of the Bonemerang crits, (50*2) + 50 = 150, whereas a crit from EQ would be 200. But yes, the increased chance of critical hitting is good shit.
I have to agree that Marowak is now outclassed by Excadrill and even Rhyperior. Marowak is a slow glass cannon. I could see it being used as a wall breaker against stall teams, though :d.
Also Bonemerang has twice the chance of critical hitting, but its critical hits are considerably weaker than a CH from EQ. Assuming 1 of the Bonemerang crits, (50*2) + 50 = 150, whereas a crit from EQ would be 200. But yes, the increased chance of critical hitting is good shit.
I have to agree that Marowak is now outclassed by Excadrill and even Rhyperior. Marowak is a slow glass cannon. I could see it being used as a wall breaker against stall teams, though :d.
Nobody has mentioned this, but my favourite thing to do with Marowak is pair him with Smeargle, and Baton Pass him a Shift Gear boost. I find that works a lot better than trying to pass him an Agility or something, and then have Marowak spend a turn using Swords Dance. Sure, you only have +1 attack this way, but whatever, it's like Marowak gets to hold Thick Club and Choice Band at the same time. A simple set something like this:
Marowak @ Thick Club
Jolly Nature
Rock Head
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Double Edge
-Fire Punch
-Rock Slide/Stone Edge/ThunderPunch
If the pass is successful, he'll almost always sweep.
It's kind of a high risk; high reward situation. Fun as hell to do though, and causes lots of ragequits if successful. ;P
Marowak @ Thick Club
Jolly Nature
Rock Head
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Double Edge
-Fire Punch
-Rock Slide/Stone Edge/ThunderPunch
If the pass is successful, he'll almost always sweep.
It's kind of a high risk; high reward situation. Fun as hell to do though, and causes lots of ragequits if successful. ;P
Of course, no Marowak should be without Fire Punch, and it's great against Forry in particular. But Earthquake is equally useless against Skarmory, except of course if (for some reason) gravity were up, in which case Bonemerang will actually kill the damn metal menace in one attack (after STAB it's like getting hit with Fire Punch twice, and under gravity it would be SE).
Anyway if you are running Marowak in OU, you should already know that he is quite situational (though he packs awesome power). Bringing up the point of critical hits, if one of the Bonemerang hits becomes a crit, with his attack power, even Donphan taking neutral damage is probably dead, though Donphan would probably survive a normal hit from Bonemerang/Earthquake (well, for sure from Earthquake).
I made a point of saying that it wouldn't be practical to bother trying to set up gravity for this, or pass hone claws... But the point remains that you could do it, and in these (admittedly limited) circumstances, Bonemerang is flat out better than Earthquake. It's tied for his highest power move (factoring in STAB and, of course, the second hit), and it's got multi-hit properties... That's worth considering, IMO.
I just tryed out a new set for Marowak, and it works pretty well, Marowak is pretty bulky on the physical side of things.
Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish nature
- Earthquake/Bonemerang
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance/Thunder Punch
This Marowak's purpose is to check physical attackers, as most will not be able to 2ko, without a Choice Band, and almost nothing non-boosted can OHKO. With the Evs, it has 324 HP, 392 Atk, and 350 defense, and set up on weak attackers. It also works as a decent check to Garchomp, Exadrill, and Tyrannitar. Even with only a minor investment in attack, its still pretty strong. Other options for the last slot include Low Kick and Double-edge. Counter and Fling could also work, but most of the time their inferior. A specially defensive spread could also work, however, it's inferior because many special attackers carry a Super effective move against. It can though beat Slowbro though, if its not raining, and it doesn't burn you with scald.
Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish nature
- Earthquake/Bonemerang
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance/Thunder Punch
This Marowak's purpose is to check physical attackers, as most will not be able to 2ko, without a Choice Band, and almost nothing non-boosted can OHKO. With the Evs, it has 324 HP, 392 Atk, and 350 defense, and set up on weak attackers. It also works as a decent check to Garchomp, Exadrill, and Tyrannitar. Even with only a minor investment in attack, its still pretty strong. Other options for the last slot include Low Kick and Double-edge. Counter and Fling could also work, but most of the time their inferior. A specially defensive spread could also work, however, it's inferior because many special attackers carry a Super effective move against. It can though beat Slowbro though, if its not raining, and it doesn't burn you with scald.
After reading this thread I tried some crazy Tail Wind team with this guy.
The main supporter was Bulky Scizor @ Leftovers U-Turn/Bullet Punch/Roost/Tail Wind and Whimsicott @ Leftovers Encore/Stun Spore/U-Turn/Tail Wind. Tornadus was used as well thanks to Prankster.
Paired with other strong attacker (the better results I got was with LO Gallade) and a possible Gravity user Marowak destroys teams with his three turns of 500+ atk, 400+ speed outrage. Even if Tail Wind ends and you're forced out you can always come back later after a priority suicide Tail Wind.
The main supporter was Bulky Scizor @ Leftovers U-Turn/Bullet Punch/Roost/Tail Wind and Whimsicott @ Leftovers Encore/Stun Spore/U-Turn/Tail Wind. Tornadus was used as well thanks to Prankster.
Paired with other strong attacker (the better results I got was with LO Gallade) and a possible Gravity user Marowak destroys teams with his three turns of 500+ atk, 400+ speed outrage. Even if Tail Wind ends and you're forced out you can always come back later after a priority suicide Tail Wind.
That´s the exact same set I ran in Gen4 OU(with the 40 Atk EV put into Def as well).
Except I used him as a bulky cleaner after spreading paralysis. It worked pretty well and considering his speed stat isn´t all that great, investing in it is kind of mute anyway. In my opinion at least.
With priority Stun Spore and TWave, the same plan should be doable this gen as well.
Alice
The worst taste in music
Why not going straight for a white herb smashpass?, I can't see any advantage in using gear shift over SS...
I'm a bit confused as to why Shift Gear is better than Agility. Both increase speed by +2, but Shift Gear leaves him at -1 attack.
^Because Shift Gear leaves him at +1 Attack, not -1...
Shell Smash is still +2 attack and +2 speed though, and the drawback goes away if the passer has a White Herb.
Wait what? Shift Gear is +1/+2.
he dosent gain anything for the generation which is like a city rising around a villiage, as gen 5 came in.
still a legend poke and there should be a tournamnet dedicated to legendary lovable pokemon, charizard come home
still a legend poke and there should be a tournamnet dedicated to legendary lovable pokemon, charizard come home