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Lucario (Full Revamp) +
- Thread starter Colonel M
- Start date
After you are paralyzed, it will take a lot of couple boosts to be able to outspeed again, since paralysis takes off 80% of your initial speed. By the time you get enough boosts, you will probably be dead.
Course if you aren't paralyzed, its nice. But overall, you are probably better off not getting flinched in the first place (for example, moves like fake out; just kill the thing as it tries to flinch you!)
Really neither is that astounding but if you feel Steadfast is slightly better I'll remove the ability and discuss it in SET COMMENTS. Anyway, the reason I selected it was you won't really have much of a chance of using the Speed advantage if you have to constantly switch out from time to time. I'll let one or two more people weigh in whether its extremely important or not.
As for the Metal Sound: Other Options unless more people can weigh in with this too. Also, most (and I didn't say all) people normally use the "standard" Blissey with Special Defense EVs.
As for the Metal Sound: Other Options unless more people can weigh in with this too. Also, most (and I didn't say all) people normally use the "standard" Blissey with Special Defense EVs.
Looking at this I have a few comments:
@ Swords Dance set,
You mention a that Dragon and Grass resist fighting. This is an inaccurate statement. I would put common in front of that, which implies that you are specifically talking about Salamence, Dragonite, Celebi, and Shaymin-S.
@ Agility Mix set,
I don't like the EVs for this at all. Why is there such a small physical attack investment? I know only 80 are needed to beat Blissey, but Blissey isn't the reason that Close Combat is on the set. Close Combat is Lucario's most powerful move and should be use to sweep should you come accross a weakened team. For starters, since the special moves are specifically used to clear away specific walls, I would start with that. You need 298 Special Attack to have greater than a 50% chance to 2HKO on Hippowdon with Stealth Rock, taking Leftovers into account, so I would set my special attack there. Then, you don't need quite so much speed. 265 Speed (196 EVs) is enough to outrun Scarf Shaymin-S after an agility, and isn't losing out on anything before an agility, so I would drop a few Speed EVs. Then to take advantage of Close Combat as your main attack, dump the remaining EVs into attack. It should look like this:
188 Atk / 128 SpA / 196 Spe, Naughty
Yields:
332 Atk / 298 Spe / 265 Spe
With a Rash nature and only 80 Atk EVs, your Close Combat is doing approximately 16.5% less than mine. Furthermore, I'm keeping the same 2HKO on Celebi with Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball, and a good chance at a 2HKO on Hippowdon as well. I don't know what else all that Special Attack is needed for when your using unSTABed moves. Cresselia isn't 2HKOed by either spread so I don't know why you need so much Special Attack.
@ Counters section:
Gliscor is the #1 counter, as it outspeeds Lucario and OHKOs with Earthquake. But it can't switch into Hidden Power Ice or Ice Punch. But then again, nothing that is a "counter" to Lucario can really switch into any set overzealously. I would drop the mention of Ice Punch Lucario beating Gliscor, because again, it won't unless it predicts the switch in. Gyarados loses to Stone Edge / Thunderpunch, Zapdos loses to Stone Edge / HP Rock / HP Ice / Ice Punch, as does Salamence. Blissey loses to Close Combat (why is this even mentioned? SpecsLuke has an 85% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock!). Spritomb hates Choice Specs Flash Cannon, but more importantly, hates the Swords Dancer, as a +2 Stone Edge OHKOs many versions of Tomb. Heracross may not care about fighting attacks, but the Swords Dancer destroys him too. Rotom appliances fear more than just crunch.... Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse destroy them too and I rarely see them being used Special Defensively. The intro to this is good about you have to know the set, but some of the proposed counters aren't too great. Oh yeah, no mention of Sub Calm Mind Jirachi always beating SD Luke? ALWAYS!! (Subs twice, than Psychic OHKOs after 2 Defense Drops).
@ Swords Dance set,
You mention a that Dragon and Grass resist fighting. This is an inaccurate statement. I would put common in front of that, which implies that you are specifically talking about Salamence, Dragonite, Celebi, and Shaymin-S.
@ Agility Mix set,
I don't like the EVs for this at all. Why is there such a small physical attack investment? I know only 80 are needed to beat Blissey, but Blissey isn't the reason that Close Combat is on the set. Close Combat is Lucario's most powerful move and should be use to sweep should you come accross a weakened team. For starters, since the special moves are specifically used to clear away specific walls, I would start with that. You need 298 Special Attack to have greater than a 50% chance to 2HKO on Hippowdon with Stealth Rock, taking Leftovers into account, so I would set my special attack there. Then, you don't need quite so much speed. 265 Speed (196 EVs) is enough to outrun Scarf Shaymin-S after an agility, and isn't losing out on anything before an agility, so I would drop a few Speed EVs. Then to take advantage of Close Combat as your main attack, dump the remaining EVs into attack. It should look like this:
188 Atk / 128 SpA / 196 Spe, Naughty
Yields:
332 Atk / 298 Spe / 265 Spe
With a Rash nature and only 80 Atk EVs, your Close Combat is doing approximately 16.5% less than mine. Furthermore, I'm keeping the same 2HKO on Celebi with Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball, and a good chance at a 2HKO on Hippowdon as well. I don't know what else all that Special Attack is needed for when your using unSTABed moves. Cresselia isn't 2HKOed by either spread so I don't know why you need so much Special Attack.
@ Counters section:
Gliscor is the #1 counter, as it outspeeds Lucario and OHKOs with Earthquake. But it can't switch into Hidden Power Ice or Ice Punch. But then again, nothing that is a "counter" to Lucario can really switch into any set overzealously. I would drop the mention of Ice Punch Lucario beating Gliscor, because again, it won't unless it predicts the switch in. Gyarados loses to Stone Edge / Thunderpunch, Zapdos loses to Stone Edge / HP Rock / HP Ice / Ice Punch, as does Salamence. Blissey loses to Close Combat (why is this even mentioned? SpecsLuke has an 85% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock!). Spritomb hates Choice Specs Flash Cannon, but more importantly, hates the Swords Dancer, as a +2 Stone Edge OHKOs many versions of Tomb. Heracross may not care about fighting attacks, but the Swords Dancer destroys him too. Rotom appliances fear more than just crunch.... Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse destroy them too and I rarely see them being used Special Defensively. The intro to this is good about you have to know the set, but some of the proposed counters aren't too great. Oh yeah, no mention of Sub Calm Mind Jirachi always beating SD Luke? ALWAYS!! (Subs twice, than Psychic OHKOs after 2 Defense Drops).
I added more, lol.
I'll see what I can do with tweaking the Counters section. Also I'm a little skiddish on adding Gliscor as the #1 counter if its Jolly Lucario (and most Gliscor usually bench at Adamant) but I agree that it should take on most Lucario if it doesn't switch into something dangerous. I'll go ahead with the EV spread on the Agility Lucario since I agree that you should invest more in your "STAB" attack anyway. I'll correlate these changes right now and re-write the Counters section tommorrow possibly.
Looks like most people need to start waking up when using Gliscor, since Jolly Gliscor still outruns Jolly Lucario.
So, no calm mind sets? I've seen a few promising ones.
Calm Mind is in the same boat as Metal Sound. IMO Other Options material unless people can give me really good reasons to add either one. And I'm a little more inclined to adding Metal Sound before Calm Mind due to it being Lucario's only way of coming close to killing Blissey on the Special Spectrum.
The Counters section is complete (I hope) and I've also changed Garchomp -> Salamence in the Agility SET COMMENTS.
I've noted many times that, to use Lucario with Bullet Punch, you really are sacrificing a lot of things. KOes aren't as easy as with ExtremeSpeed. In fact, I'd argue its Lucario's main quality to being a priority user. Without it, you notice things such as Raikou and Starmie more annoying at the cost of hitting Gengar and Mismagius. IMO it was never really "worthy" of a slash to begin with despite hitting Gengar because 9 times out of 10 you would prefer neutrality. On top of that, Scizor can accomplish the use of Bullet Punch better due to Technician boosting its power. While this isn't exactly the "best" mentality, it is simply because of this: ExtremeSpeed is better in most situations than Bullet Punch. It's rather unfortunate for Scizor to only have Quick Attack as its "neutral" attack (by the way, Lucario's ExtremeSpeed does more than Technician Quick Attack despite the Attack gap).
For those thinking tl;dr: No its not a slash because ExtremeSpeed is better in almost every scenario.
I've noted many times that, to use Lucario with Bullet Punch, you really are sacrificing a lot of things. KOes aren't as easy as with ExtremeSpeed. In fact, I'd argue its Lucario's main quality to being a priority user. Without it, you notice things such as Raikou and Starmie more annoying at the cost of hitting Gengar and Mismagius. IMO it was never really "worthy" of a slash to begin with despite hitting Gengar because 9 times out of 10 you would prefer neutrality. On top of that, Scizor can accomplish the use of Bullet Punch better due to Technician boosting its power. While this isn't exactly the "best" mentality, it is simply because of this: ExtremeSpeed is better in most situations than Bullet Punch. It's rather unfortunate for Scizor to only have Quick Attack as its "neutral" attack (by the way, Lucario's ExtremeSpeed does more than Technician Quick Attack despite the Attack gap).
For those thinking tl;dr: No its not a slash because ExtremeSpeed is better in almost every scenario.