(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Suspicious Derivative]

It's a fair criticism. Funny thing is, though to us Yellow is the third version, to the Japanese audience it's the fourth. Not sure how much more tougher Japanese Blue is to the original Japanese Red & Green, but it did provide a lot of improvements to them so it is a more proper third version by definition.

Japanese Blue definitely feels more like a "real" third version to me. While it didn't go as far as Crystal/Emerald/Platinum, my impression is that it at least improved in some aspects without making anything worse. Unlike Yellow which improved upon R/B in some areas while making things worse in others.

All else I can say about Yellow is that, at least nowadays, you ain't playing it for the challenge. You're playing it strictly for the novelty. If you want to experience the best version of the Kanto games you got either FireRed & LeafGreen for a more traditional experience or you now have Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee for ones with improved battles against trainers. Remoraid to head choice, you know what, I would say go for Let's Go just because of the improved teams; if you want a traditional Pokemon experience any of the main series titles still does that so you aren't lacking of it.

Good point. If I were to replay Yellow today, it would probably just be for the novelty. If I want the best of Kanto, I'll go with FR/LG, and if I want the best of the first generation, I'd go with R/B. I haven't played Let's Go but I think I'd still go with FR/LG anyway... though the sad thing is that they might not be all that good either. See more below.

Honestly, at this point, the only way to further improve Kanto is just doing another story within it; over 20 years have passed, surely a lot has changed about it. And as a bonus they could include the Sevii Islands and Johto, make it the complete Indigo League experience.

I agree. A sequel or another proper remake is something Kanto would benefit from a lot. Sad as it is, I find Kanto as it is now to be pretty boring. I tried to replay LeafGreen last year, and while I made it quite far in the game, I got bored after a while and quit. It just wasn't that enjoyable in the end, sadly. FR/LG are 17 years old now, and they are in turn remakes of games which are 25 years old. The series has changed a lot since then, so the Kanto games are a bit dated nowadays IMO. Though my playthrough of LG was done on emulator, which I think gives a completely different feeling compared to playing on a retail cart, so that might have been a contributing factor as well. I can still play around in the post-game of my retail carts of FR/LG, but I am unsure if I would be able to go through the main game once more.

Either way, I definitely agree that Kanto would benefit a lot from being spiced up and improved even further. FR/LG were a good improvement over R/B/Y, but the series has improved so much further since then, so it feels like it is time for another improvement. Though I am personally pretty tired of Kanto right now because of all the attention it has gotten throughout the years, so if (or rather when) they make another Kanto game, I hope they will wait with it for a while. A few years, at least. Maybe for the 35th anniversary or something. I have many ideas for a modern Kanto remake (but less ideas for a Kanto sequel), though we are getting into wishlisting so I'll stop here.

Yeah, Ash-Greninja shouldn't be a thing (especially since we're not Ash so how is Greninja taking on a form that resembles him in our possession?). To this day I still debate whether it was something the anime wanted to do so Ash could be special and not have to use Mega Evolution or if it was something GF was planning to do with all the Starters, a super form where they take on the players customization options, but scrapped it with the advertising of Ash-Greninja being the only remainder of it.

I agree. I wonder if the other Kalos starters would have gotten new forms/Megas if "Z" had existed? The eternal question comes up once again! I guess we'll never know...

Wouldn't mind that, I'll drop you a PM. I don't need to keep them, just put them in HOME to register them.

Sure, no problems. I have all four ready on Home, just PM me and we'll work out the rest.

Here is an example of my idea with the Kanto Pokemon

-snip-

I feel this reordering method is not only neater but also allows GF to go back to a species and add in any new members or forms.

This is really great and I think it would work pretty well. It would also allow them to add new evolutions, megas, regional variants and whatever without screwing up the order again, which was one of my worries if they were to reorder the National Dex and then add new evolutions. However, I am a little worred that your system might be a bit too complicated for children to understand, though I'm not sure.

How would that work? (Assuming all Gym Leaders to have 5)

2>2>3>3>3>4>4>5
2>3>3>4>4>4>4>5
2>2>3>3>4>4>5>5
2>3>3>4>4>5>5>5

Either of those would be fine. What I said there was just something I quickly added to the last part of my previous post as I wanted to give my opinion on that subject which had been discussed by Wukong and green_typhlosion, I didn't put all that much thought or detail into it.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I agree. I wonder if the other Kalos starters would have gotten new forms/Megas if "Z" had existed? The eternal question comes up once again! I guess we'll never know...

My theory is yes. To promote the customization feature which was a big new feature in XY, I theorize they were going to give all the Starters a super mechanic where their appearance would reflect the hair, eyes, & clothing that the player avatar was wearing. Ash-Greninja was made to promote it, having a unique form that only Ash would have while the games would advertise you too can have your own unique looking Kalos Starter if you get Pokemon Z (along with Zygarde's new forms)! Of course, Z was trashed for Sun & Moon for the 20th Anniversary, and if my theory is true who knows how far they got into the idea before deciding it may not have been worth it; just give all the players an Ash-Greninja so we didn't waste ours & theirs time.

However, I am a little worred that your system might be a bit too complicated for children to understand, though I'm not sure.

It's messy cause its just a string of text. When given an actual UI with art assets I think it would be easier to look through and understand.

 

[R_N]

My theory is yes. To promote the customization feature which was a big new feature in XY, I theorize they were going to give all the Starters a super mechanic where their appearance would reflect the hair, eyes, & clothing that the player avatar was wearing. Ash-Greninja was made to promote it, having a unique form that only Ash would have while the games would advertise you too can have your own unique looking Kalos Starter if you get Pokemon Z (along with Zygarde's new forms)! Of course, Z was trashed for Sun & Moon for the 20th Anniversary, and if my theory is true who knows how far they got into the idea before deciding it may not have been worth it; just give all the players an Ash-Greninja so we didn't waste ours & theirs time.

There are far too many clothing and hair options to translate into a design across 3 Pokemon to make this something they'd actualy do, frankly.
The Anime people wanted a super mode for Greninja so Gamefreak designed it for that purpose. It was always a design made specifically for Ash & I think anime staff might've helped make it.

While I'm at it? I think 10% Zygarde was also designed for the anime purposes as well, so that there was a smaller "real" zygarde they could pull out for more scenarios. The concept art's always stuck out to me because it showcases Zygarde 10% in relation to Bonnie, complete with the scarf acting as a leash (shockingly never used as such in the final anime, but was very prominent).

 

[Samtendo09]

It’s not something that necessarily applied to official Pokémon games all the times, but does apply concept-wise.

I’m not fond that several Pokémon fangames or art Pokédex featuring Fakémon utilizes several very common Pokémon concepts we see in both official games and fangames without much variety. Which one, you said?

• Common early route Normal-type (kind of understandable, but at this point, you can simply bring back, say, Sentret or Zigzagoon, for Normal-type early route)
• Weak BST single-staged Pokémon (that more depends on placement, but I’d rather not place them beyond early game and not make those difficult to access and rare at the same time)
• Ice-type Pokémon being mostly or all late-game / endgame (Ice isn’t made for defensive so far; why pushing all of them late-game?)
• Pika-Clones (the concept overstayed its welcome very quickly, and even if Morpeko is decently useful in SwSh, the design isn’t a favorite of many)
• Dragon-type Exceptional (Pseudo-Legend) lines (redundancy problems and we did have non-Dragon Exceptional lines before, being Tyranitar and Metagross)
• Gimmicky single-stage Pokémon (I understand if it is to try to make those stand out, but the execution I saw more often than not feels like their novelty might worn out quickly)
• And overall a general lack of actual diversity within the type (no Special Attacking Fighting-type in many Fakédex I saw, for example)

I’m not saying those are necessarily a bad thing, but I saw those so often I ended up yawning in annoyance whenever one of those pops up in any Fakédex.

 

[Bakugames]

It’s not something that necessarily applied to official Pokémon games all the times, but does apply concept-wise.

I’m not fond that several Pokémon fangames or art Pokédex featuring Fakémon utilizes several very common Pokémon concepts we see in both official games and fangames without much variety. Which one, you said?

• Common early route Normal-type (kind of understandable, but at this point, you can simply bring back, say, Sentret or Zigzagoon, for Normal-type early route)
• Weak BST single-staged Pokémon (that more depends on placement, but I’d rather not place them beyond early game and not make those difficult to access and rare at the same time)
• Ice-type Pokémon being mostly or all late-game / endgame (Ice isn’t made for defensive so far; why pushing all of them late-game?)
• Pika-Clones (the concept overstayed its welcome very quickly, and even if Morpeko is decently useful in SwSh, the design isn’t a favorite of many)
• Dragon-type Exceptional (Pseudo-Legend) lines (redundancy problems and we did have non-Dragon Exceptional lines before, being Tyranitar and Metagross)
• Gimmicky single-stage Pokémon (I understand if it is to try to make those stand out, but the execution I saw more often than not feels like their novelty might worn out quickly)
• And overall a general lack of actual diversity within the type (no Special Attacking Fighting-type in many Fakédex I saw, for example)

I’m not saying those are necessarily a bad thing, but I saw those so often I ended up yawning in annoyance whenever one of those pops up in any Fakédex.

I will never understand the need to follow design philosophies 1:1, including copying sugimoris art style

Maybe im just in the minority, but when im making my fakemon, i want to do my ideas and setups. Its not an official product, its fanart. Being indulgent is half of the fun.

But if you have fun following gfs setups, then more power to you. I just think it makes things boring and rather samey

 

[Samtendo09]

I will never understand the need to follow design philosophies 1:1, including copying sugimoris art style

Maybe im just in the minority, but when im making my fakemon, i want to do my ideas and setups. Its not an official product, its fanart. Being indulgent is half of the fun.

But if you have fun following gfs setups, then more power to you. I just think it makes things boring and rather samey

What you and I said might be unpopular opinions, but either way I’m with you. I do not need to follow GF’s setups 100% at the time, because I want my fan region to stand out Pokémon-wise.

I am not going to share a list of “self-imposed” new Pokémon restriction to avoid wishlisting here, but it will challenge me to go out of the box while keeping things easy to understand, such as having a early route Pokémon that evolve at early level to show newcomers about the evolution mechanic.

 

[Sonikku A]

Maybe im just in the minority, but when im making my fakemon, i want to do my ideas and setups. Its not an official product, its fanart. Being indulgent is half of the fun.

But if you have fun following gfs setups, then more power to you. I just think it makes things boring and rather samey

This is legit the same issue with the Elitist ""Classic""" Sonic fanbase for game expos for decades due to blind Sonic CD love (much like Pokehacks overloving Johto). And now with SAGE being so boring cuz 2D has been done to hell, no one cares anymore
Sadly Boost gameplay has entered the same monotony. At least 1 fangame had a unique story, but the gameplay and level setpiece is equally overdone

I will never understand the need to follow design philosophies 1:1, including copying sugimoris art style

Besides the fact that even in the first 3 years the way he drew mons changed for watercolors even, why would anyone copy his sterile post FRLG artstyle? The colors suck, and the many revisions to Gen 1/2 mons to match the anime toned down things

Heck, for in game spriting style, Gen 4/5s disturbingly is less detailed than 3s for mons
And then OW no one realizes just how limiting Gen 1-5 are. Seriously, even MD is better with 8 directions, decently drawn NPCs, and beautiful backgrounds in Explorers. Same with Rangers being better than 4/5
And then to top it off, no one bothers to rebalance mons that much. I know Radical Red attempted, but it was still small scale

 

[Ironmage]

Part of the issue seems to be that "a custom region that fits in with official examples" and "something that the kind of person that plays romhacks/fangames would enjoy playing" don't necessarily have a lot of overlap. As an obvious example, a romhack or fangame is very unlikely to be someone's first game in a series, so anything that exists primarily to introduce common mechanics to a new player (of which pokemon has a lot) isn't necessary to include. Heck, one of the most popular form of romhack is a randomizer, which inherently assumes a player can figure out how to progress with the available options when nearly no guidance is provided (because most of the world was made with no idea where anything is). Fitting within a set of constraints is entirely fine for a creative exercise, but it runs into issues if you're using the same constraints to make a game that is going to be played by a different audience than your source.

 

[Samtendo09]

This is legit the same issue with the Elitist ""Classic""" Sonic fanbase for game expos for decades due to blind Sonic CD love (much like Pokehacks overloving Johto). And now with SAGE being so boring cuz 2D has been done to hell, no one cares anymore
Sadly Boost gameplay has entered the same monotony. At least 1 fangame had a unique story, but the gameplay and level setpiece is equally overdone

Besides the fact that even in the first 3 years the way he drew mons changed for watercolors even, why would anyone copy his sterile post FRLG artstyle? The colors suck, and the many revisions to Gen 1/2 mons to match the anime toned down things

Heck, for in game spriting style, Gen 4/5s disturbingly is less detailed than 3s for mons
And then OW no one realizes just how limiting Gen 1-5 are. Seriously, even MD is better with 8 directions, decently drawn NPCs, and beautiful backgrounds in Explorers. Same with Rangers being better than 4/5
And then to top it off, no one bothers to rebalance mons that much. I know Radical Red attempted, but it was still small scale

The part I put in italic, I didn’t agree much, but I do agree wigh the rest. Especially the bolded part.

What’s the point of implementing all Pokémon in one fangame if they didn’t bothered with major rebalance with several Pokémon? Otherwise it will just be NatDex Gen 8 game-wise without any real identity aside of being able to build a dream team. And the power creep is still rampant in fangames like this.

Part of the issue seems to be that "a custom region that fits in with official examples" and "something that the kind of person that plays romhacks/fangames would enjoy playing" don't necessarily have a lot of overlap. As an obvious example, a romhack or fangame is very unlikely to be someone's first game in a series, so anything that exists primarily to introduce common mechanics to a new player (of which pokemon has a lot) isn't necessary to include. Heck, one of the most popular form of romhack is a randomizer, which inherently assumes a player can figure out how to progress with the available options when nearly no guidance is provided (because most of the world was made with no idea where anything is). Fitting within a set of constraints is entirely fine for a creative exercise, but it runs into issues if you're using the same constraints to make a game that is going to be played by a different audience than your source.

Fair enough. My fangames are already intended for longtime fans so I can see why you said it. I’m not gonna put hand-holding moments unless if it is an option for shortcut (convenient for the impatients and the speedrunners) and I’ll only do introduction for some new mechanics / battle styles to make sure they aren’t too sudden, and a key item called “Research Magazines” that tells changed old mechanics in flavor and to give a refresher for veterans.

 

[Sonikku A]

Screw everyone, I changed type effectiveness. Skarm takes 4x from electric now, and Raichu can use Light Ball
Honestly that was a growing concern in the Pret/RHH Discord I'm in. They noticed Nuzlocke/Randomizers were more in favor now compared to actual unique hacks
Not that they're bad (not to mention entertaining for streams), though it kinda shows the audience's focus wasn't really on a new game...just the same game with minor diffs
Which can feel lazy/hurt people that expend effort in making a new region and fakemon dex
Personally I'm kinda split, especially since my hack's a joke one effectively still very much based on vanilla. Despite rebalancing attempts...
One things for certain though. It'll get old very fast to just do randomizers for Main games

 

[Samtendo09]

Screw everyone, I changed type effectiveness. Skarm takes 4x from electric now, and Raichu can use Light Ball
Honestly that was a growing concern in the Pret/RHH Discord I'm in. They noticed Nuzlocke/Randomizers were more in favor now compared to actual unique hacks
Not that they're bad (not to mention entertaining for streams), though it kinda shows the audience's focus wasn't really on a new game...just the same game with minor diffs
Which can feel lazy/hurt people that expend effort in making a new region and fakemon dex
Personally I'm kinda split, especially since my hack's a joke one effectively still very much based on vanilla. Despite rebalancing attempts...
One things for certain though. It'll get old very fast to just do randomizers for Main games

Part of reason why is because too many Fakemon dex followed too many of the strict same patterns as I pointed out, which ends up the audience to not care about them so much.

Nuzlocke and Randomizer have individuals strengths over a “cliched” Fakemon dex.
- Nuzlocke simply adds a challenge to the otherwise fairly easy Pokémon games, which is faint = permadeath, only one catch attempt per route, nickname every Pokémon you have, etc. It do run into problems regarding RNG and OHKO mechanics though.
- Randomizer is customizable and adds unpredictability to just shuffled Pokémon, to almost everything randomized. This gives plenty of replayability but can be volatile in terms of difficulty. I always set so Pokémon with level 40 or higher are fully evolved to avoid late game from being anticlimatic. Unless a Pokémon have pretty low BST without an overpowered Ability like Huge Power, any Pokémon have a chance to have a niche.

Having a nuzlocke mode and / or in-game randomizer might intice the audience in question to want trying a fangame. Radical Red have a Randomizer and Nuzlocke option (or just Randomizer?) available for extra replay values, for example.

Other than that, a fangame needs to standout that avoids too many of the “mons clichés” and a creative story - no matter how small or important it is - to even entice interest.

 

[Pikachu315111]

There are far too many clothing and hair options to translate into a design across 3 Pokemon to make this something they'd actualy do, frankly.

The Anime people wanted a super mode for Greninja so Gamefreak designed it for that purpose. It was always a design made specifically for Ash & I think anime staff might've helped make it.

Well obviously it would be more restrictive only having maybe 6 head styles, 3 body styles (plain shirt, jacket, blouse), and 3 leg styles (pants, shorts, skirt); then it would color them the same color as the clothing the player is wearing.

But you're probably more right concerning the anime writers wanting to go full shonen.

I’m not fond that several Pokémon fangames or art Pokédex featuring Fakémon utilizes several very common Pokémon concepts we see in both official games and fangames without much variety.

And I know plenty who also don't like the official games utilizing these tropes either for new Pokemon.

I will never understand the need to follow design philosophies 1:1, including copying sugimoris art style

Well copying Sugimori's style I think isn't for philosophy reasons but just so the Fakemons match the aesthetic of the official Pokemon. Now not saying they all should, but if they decide to it's completely understandable as it's indicating that you're supposed to believe this Fakemon would be able to interact with all the official Pokemon.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

why tho

the Register feature exists

don't tell me it's for atmosphere, what with this physically painful cowboy music (joking, I don't mind the second half of the song)

 

[QuentinQuonce]

View attachment 375596

why tho

the Register feature exists

don't tell me it's for atmosphere, what with this physically painful cowboy music (joking, I don't mind the second half of the song)

I was already aware this existed but it just baffles me that they spent time programming this obscure and rather pointless feature into DP instead of literally anything else more useful such as, oh I don't know, the ability to run in gatehouses

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

View attachment 375596

why tho

the Register feature exists

don't tell me it's for atmosphere, what with this physically painful cowboy music (joking, I don't mind the second half of the song)

Oh, so that's what these are for.

Neat little detail.

 

[Sonikku A]

I was already aware this existed but it just baffles me that they spent time programming this obscure and rather pointless feature into DP instead of literally anything else more useful such as, oh I don't know, the ability to run in gatehouses

I hate that it took 6 gens just to run indoors...

 

[MoonlightRose]

Sinnoh has way too many HM's. I should not need a pokemon that knows nothing but HM's to make it through one cave, even if it is Victory Road.

Kinda sorta but not really off topic : Are we allowed to complain about stuff from rom hacks? Cause I need to vent and I don't know where else to do it.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Kinda sorta but not really off topic : Are we allowed to complain about stuff from rom hacks? Cause I need to vent and I don't know where else to do it.

Think it's a case-by-case issue, so I'd say use your best judgement.

 

[MoonlightRose]

Think it's a case-by-case issue, so I'd say use your best judgement.

Think I'll just not go into detail unless asked then, Blaze Black makes some really annoying choices for gym leader pokemon and the progression of trainers.

 

[The Mind Electric]

Think I'll just not go into detail unless asked then, Blaze Black makes some really annoying choices for gym leader pokemon and the progression of trainers.

I got past Inner Pinwheel in Blaze Black and then stopped for kind of this reason. I'm not a big fan of how that hack is set up for two reasons:

1. The major fights alternate between like 3 different styles of battling and it gives the AI an unfair advantage. I need to think about how my team will perform in several different battle formats and make compromises for that, but the NPCs don't and are free to abuse gimmicks that only work in one format.
2. The random trainers are stacked and it makes getting through routes a chore. I get the desire to make it harder and keep the player on their toes but running back to the Pokémon Center after every battle is fucking annoying.

Sorry if I'm contributing to forbidden discussion by posting this but I'm not huge on this hack either and now I have an excuse to talk about it. Maybe Drayano's other stuff is better, but I have yet to play it. Somebody recommended me Renegade Platinum over Discord once, maybe I'll play that some day.

 

[Lightning Energy]

Why didn't the Scorbunny line get Blaze Kick via level-up? It makes perfect sense thematically and would've helped bridge the STAB gap between Flame Charge and Pyro Ball. Sure, you can make the argument that this situation incentives collecting TRs but I think it would've been better as a level-up move.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Kinda sorta but not really off topic : Are we allowed to complain about stuff from rom hacks? Cause I need to vent and I don't know where else to do it.

I honestly don't bother with pretty much any hacks.

There's a staggering number where they just have the difficulty be based on how long you can stand grinding to have wackmons beat near-optimal stuff.

I totally get that the base games kinda need some adjustments every now and then, but I'd rather do them myself.

 

[Hugin]

Why didn't the Scorbunny line get Blaze Kick via level-up? It makes perfect sense thematically and would've helped bridge the STAB gap between Flame Charge and Pyro Ball. Sure, you can make the argument that this situation incentives collecting TRs but I think it would've been better to be a level-up move.

Looking at it now, I suspect a BUNCH of Gen VIII mons were intentionally limited to encourage players to grind for TRs. I just glanced through the early-route stuff, and there's a lot who get STABs exclusively off their bad stat, way too late, or only with severe drawbacks. And stuff that GF clearly intended to be popular: Boltund, Thievul, Coalossal, Sandaconda...These are not meme mons, but looking at it now, a lot of those would be a pain without picking up SOME TR for them. I usually grind in the wild area because I find it fun, so I hadn't noticed, but now it definitely seems intentional.

 

[MoonlightRose]

stuff that I mostly agree with - I'd rather play a well made hack.

The thing is, I don't even think Lenora's optimised. She's just got pokemon that are completely inappropriate for the second gym leader. Watchog, Furret, Herdier and the like? Good, especially if you give them a solid but not broken moveset. Stanler and Bouffalant throwing around STAB Retaliates off of 95/110 base attack while a Furret uses Me First to prevent you from doing any damage? No. Not fun. Especially when Stanler has Psybeam for fighting types and Bouffalant has Revenge for rock/steel types.

 

[The Mind Electric]

The thing is, I don't even think Lenora's optimised. She's just got pokemon that are completely inappropriate for the second gym leader. Watchog, Furret, Herdier and the like? Good, especially if you give them a solid but not broken moveset. Stanler and Bouffalant throwing around STAB Retaliates off of 95/110 base attack while a Furret uses Me First to prevent you from doing any damage? No. Not fun. Especially when Stanler has Psybeam for fighting types and Bouffalant has Revenge for rock/steel types.

She's a double battle and she leads with double Intimidate and honestly that alone is too much.