(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Kind of sucks that if you want the dex entry for shiny Meltan in Home (or any other game) you're basically forced to waste one since it can't evolve anywhere except in Go, where it can never return to. Not so much a major issue since if you get a crap shiny in Go you may as well just transfer it, but I hope future games do allow the species to evolve eventually. I suppose if Go ever ceases to exist they'll pretty much have to.
Conceptually Iget why they don't let Meltan just evolve outside of Go, since the entire shtick is if you're connected it's really easy to capture a ton of them so you can get the candies and evolve it, so they dont want you to catch a ton of them transfer and then get a ton of Melmetals

But in practice it is dumb you can kind of strand a Pokemon like that. SWSH even had "learns Thunder Punch on evolution" implemented but obviously that never gets used.

The SV material system would work pretty well with it if they decided to bring it back in DLC, though whatever way they give to gather materials would probably be correspondingly annoying.
 
The SV material system would work pretty well with it if they decided to bring it back in DLC, though whatever way they give to gather materials would probably be correspondingly annoying.
Please, I am having Gholdengo PTSD already, I don't want another of these Q_Q
 
The thing about Melmetal is that in Go they've essentially already "broken" any valuation of catching it in sheer quantity for candy, so the only value they hold there is rolling tons for High IVs (since Melmetal is a somewhat useful Anti-Meta pick for PvP) since Mythicals can't be traded for the "Lucky Trade" feature (Pokemon reroll their IVs when traded, Luckies give them a 12/15 floor among other benefits).

What I'm getting at here is that with the way the Box works, if you have access to Home already, you already have the means to drop a ton of Melmetals in if you play regularly: 3+1 Candy per Meltan capture (not counting bonuses from Berries or an Active Mega) and Transfer with an hour of spawns every ~1-2 Minutes means that you could have a Melmetal as frequently as once every 3 days, assuming you have one worth evolving at each interval (first batch you could yield as much as 300 Candy if you Pinap and Transfer most of them with a Mega Bonus active, then the excess from batch 2 means you can probably evolve a 2nd), not accounting for the rare events where the Box gets its cooldown shortened and Shinies are added to the Pool (THOSE being event only). Shiny Meltan is effectively as rare as Shiny Melmetal because even during the featured events, the average appearance rate for a Shiny more or less matches how many Meltan you need to catch for an Evolution's worth of Candy.

If a flood is a concern, they already made Melmetal permanently available by virtue of the Gigantamax one when you transfer any Go Mon to Home (which would be a pre-requisite to a Melmetal flood anyway). I refuse to believe that the G-Max Meltdown over Steelsurge was Gamefreak thinking that is enough of a "limiting" factor to make those Melmetal safe to have available widely vs standard ones (due to not being able to add or remove the GMax factor with soup).

Melmetal takes a degree of work to train up but it's not going to be a hyper rare commodity like most Mythicals are. The Go-only evolution feels unnecessary since the only way in which it's potentially monetized is on TPC's part if one buys into a Home Pass, which they have a significantly larger number of selling points to focus on than "ruining" a Shiny Trophy. Not to mention Meltan is basically only a dex filler compared to its evolution, so the majority of people transferring one either want it for the Dex Entry or a Living Dex, and to my knowledge Melmetal tends to be limited/banned from most official formats because of that Mythical status.

The contrast to this is Gholdengo: Unlike the Free Home service, the Coin bag is refreshed by specifically interfacing with SV (so not just a paid game, but a specific one of the several on Switch) in a feature that also has benefits to the Go players (Scatterbug from the Postcard features is the only way to encounter the species or get Candy to evolve the MANY Vivilion patterns). Their design motifs and presentations of tiny Metal Gremlins that amalgamate into a much more impressive Evolution with a lot of Material is already shared, so if the concern is Melmetal's availability, the minimum is to make it available sparingly outside of Go.


tl;dr Melmetal's already more than available enough that literally every Meltan in Go evolving won't affect the "economy" enough to justify this. Just let the nuts evolve.
 

Mex

The last ace in a lost hand
is a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
The thing about Melmetal is that in Go they've essentially already "broken" any valuation of catching it in sheer quantity for candy, so the only value they hold there is rolling tons for High IVs (since Melmetal is a somewhat useful Anti-Meta pick for PvP) since Mythicals can't be traded for the "Lucky Trade" feature (Pokemon reroll their IVs when traded, Luckies give them a 12/15 floor among other benefits).
Small correction, but Melmetal can actually be traded, unlike other Mythicals. It basically breaks all the rules set on mythicals and legendaries in Go, like it being able to defend gyms, the lack of the trade restriction every other mythical has and the ability to be caught in significant amounts without being a raid boss.

I assume the reason there's no way to evolve it in the main series games is due to lore, Melmetal was a deity in ancient times, and eventually got injured, splitting apart into many Meltan. the evolution process is effectively the player reforming it by combining all the Meltan they've caught (via the use of a ton of candy).

Would make sense that if they added a way to get Meltan materials in SV that they could use that as an evolution requirement, but that's a fairly big if.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Conceptually Iget why they don't let Meltan just evolve outside of Go, since the entire shtick is if you're connected it's really easy to capture a ton of them so you can get the candies and evolve it, so they dont want you to catch a ton of them transfer and then get a ton of Melmetals

But in practice it is dumb you can kind of strand a Pokemon like that. SWSH even had "learns Thunder Punch on evolution" implemented but obviously that never gets used.

The SV material system would work pretty well with it if they decided to bring it back in DLC, though whatever way they give to gather materials would probably be correspondingly annoying.
Not sure I buy this. It's extremely easy to farm Melmetal candy in Go; like if I was minded to I could transfer about 20 Melmetal right now (obviously I'd have to spend coins on recharging the transfer meter in Go, which, absolutely not) and like Pika says you get a free one with every Home/Go account so they're hardly in demand.

I could understand restricting its evolution in LGPE/SwSh but I really hope they make it able to evolve in ScVi if it gets added.

The thing about Melmetal is that in Go they've essentially already "broken" any valuation of catching it in sheer quantity for candy, so the only value they hold there is rolling tons for High IVs (since Melmetal is a somewhat useful Anti-Meta pick for PvP) since Mythicals can't be traded for the "Lucky Trade" feature (Pokemon reroll their IVs when traded, Luckies give them a 12/15 floor among other benefits).

What I'm getting at here is that with the way the Box works, if you have access to Home already, you already have the means to drop a ton of Melmetals in if you play regularly: 3+1 Candy per Meltan capture (not counting bonuses from Berries or an Active Mega) and Transfer with an hour of spawns every ~1-2 Minutes means that you could have a Melmetal as frequently as once every 3 days, assuming you have one worth evolving at each interval (first batch you could yield as much as 300 Candy if you Pinap and Transfer most of them with a Mega Bonus active, then the excess from batch 2 means you can probably evolve a 2nd), not accounting for the rare events where the Box gets its cooldown shortened and Shinies are added to the Pool (THOSE being event only). Shiny Meltan is effectively as rare as Shiny Melmetal because even during the featured events, the average appearance rate for a Shiny more or less matches how many Meltan you need to catch for an Evolution's worth of Candy.

If a flood is a concern, they already made Melmetal permanently available by virtue of the Gigantamax one when you transfer any Go Mon to Home (which would be a pre-requisite to a Melmetal flood anyway). I refuse to believe that the G-Max Meltdown over Steelsurge was Gamefreak thinking that is enough of a "limiting" factor to make those Melmetal safe to have available widely vs standard ones (due to not being able to add or remove the GMax factor with soup).

Melmetal takes a degree of work to train up but it's not going to be a hyper rare commodity like most Mythicals are. The Go-only evolution feels unnecessary since the only way in which it's potentially monetized is on TPC's part if one buys into a Home Pass, which they have a significantly larger number of selling points to focus on than "ruining" a Shiny Trophy. Not to mention Meltan is basically only a dex filler compared to its evolution, so the majority of people transferring one either want it for the Dex Entry or a Living Dex, and to my knowledge Melmetal tends to be limited/banned from most official formats because of that Mythical status.
This is more right (outside of the correction Mex made about it being tradeable). The only way they can retain any value is by locking the shiny to events - it's usually only available once or twice a year, so THAT'S the real rare element here.

Which frankly makes trying to get a shiny with decent IVs maddening since we almost never get snowy weather in-game where I live (and even then it's only a 6/6/6 floor, so still not guaranteed anything spectacular). I've lucky traded so many of the damn things and still gotten nowhere close.

Which plays into what I originally posted, as that means I do then have a bunch of Meltan with crap stats lying around! But stats can be fixed in mainline games so that's not an issue if I transfer it elsewhere. If I ever play through LGPE I'd actually really like to use Meltan on my team. But as I said, if you want a shiny Meltan anywhere else you have to basically sacrifice one and accept that it's stuck unevolved.
 
As someone who was able to grind Meltan candies: the math on grinding meltan candies just sucked the will to live out of me.
You need 400 candies. I was getting like...3 candy per Meltan. You got one Meltan box per home transfer every 3 days. Catching the things was long winded, boring and you just needed so many of them. So many! I don't think I even had that many Pokeballs.
& I know that's not even that far off from the normal way of evolving things in Go but there's several reasons why I bounce off Go every time I go into it.

At least with Gimmighoul coins I am traversing the region, having fun, getting hauls. The 3 evolutions took surprisingly little active dedication.


And when I say they don't want you popping out Melmetals I don't necessarily mean in just a Demand type of way but also a "we want this to be a Thing You Work Towards in Go" type thing. They want Melmetal to be special, it doesn't matter to them what the actual effort involved is, so here we are.







WHILE WE'RE HERE did you know you can't throw Meltans onto the Home GTS? It's pretty dumb. Wouldn't have minded just sending the little dudes out on Wonder Trade or w/e for people who dont want to mess with Go.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Gogoat is held back not really by its stat distribution and more that its movepool, type, and ability don't really lend itself to a particularly interesting Pokemon.

It's not a weak Pokemon by any means, it's just overall average, and in the face of increasing power creep newer generations have generally commanded for Pokemon to be more than that to be great in higher tiers. It's a pure Grass-type with no second type, and its movepool is generic setup sweeper with good bulk and recovery in Milk Drink combined with good physical coverage. These make for a functionally good Pokemon, but not one that is particularly standout per se. Its abilities are Sap Sipper, which boosts Attack and gives Grass immunity, and Grass Pelt, which boosts Defense in Grassy Terrain, which is admittedly situational. That said its pure Grass-typing and relatively simple capabilities, while making a good Pokemon, do not make it standout which is its real problem: not that it's weak, but it's not exceptional.

To put it simply, Gogoat is by all means a decent Pokemon and functionally is strong. But you need to be more than just good to make it into higher levels of competitive play these days: you need to be exceptional or unique, and Gogoat simply isn't that.

Its perception as an average Pokemon is why some people found it off putting to see on a Champion's team like Geeta's, even if it's not strictly a bad inclusion to have.
 
Oh, without a doubt. The issue I see is that people see "average" as "mediocre", and that's a suboptimal metric. Then again, we have seen plenty of Pidgeots, Aerodactyls, Claydols and Gastrodons in champion teams before people started claiming "they are weak and forgettable".

But hey, plenty of people who insist on only OU stuff being good, despite the increasing number of tiers, and the gimmick of the gen doing weird things with viability.
 
I don't think the stat distribution is helping here. It's slow, with really high HP and pretty decent attack & special attack, and mediocre defenses (because it has high hp)
Comparatively fewer people consider Aerodactyl mediocre. It's fast and hits hard.
Claydol is weak as sin, but it's bulky and leans into that aspect.


That said I do think visuals go an even longer way towards perception. Gogoat doesnt "look" strong, it's "just" a goat (I mean I think it's a cool loking goat, but you get the gist), the defensive profile isn't very obvious. But you look at Gastrodon, which is also not incredible if you really dig into it, and its like yeah thats the bulky one it does bulky things what a cool looking slug and so people just nod and move on.
Meanwhile I think the only reason people get on Geeta's case for using a Veluza isn't that it's kind of an "okay" Pokemon it's because it's used by Kofu; if that wasn't the case it'd probably never come into discussion unless you were going DEEP on statistics. I mean just look at it! Very fierce looking, and strong, and wow a dual type!

But you know, relatedly I feel like if Geeta had Orthworm instead of Avalugg* people would also complain about it being lackluster in a way people don't throw at Nemona for similar reasons. It's a goofy robo worm with great defense but not a lot else (it's actually very comparable to Avalugg in several ways), just flamethrower and move on. But it's fine on Nemona's final team, because she's the happy goofy girl and also she gave people a run for their money in comparison.

*Avalugg being an ice type likely doesn't help anything. If it was Cloyster (& Also Arven didn't have one) or a more offensive ice type instead significantly fewer people would groan because hey that thing has a water type and looks cooler and everyone knows about shell smash and skill link, but it's a pure defensive ice type and it looks dopey so its death warrant was signed regardless of what else was on Geeta's team.
 
My thing with Geeta is that the Pokemon on her team, even if accidentally, just feel like some of the flattest/least interesting to see in terms of the design given she's a Champion. Like, Blue had Pidgeot for sure, but the long feather mane made it very striking and it brings some variety to the types and (funnily enough given it's the early route bird) really isn't battled that much outside of Blue himself in game.

A lot of Geeta's team is chosen to rep the different areas of Paldea, but they're just not very interesting choices for most of them. Veluza is redundant with Kofu but also the "leave me alone!" spawn for the Sea areas; could have used Palafin (with Flip Turn), Cloyster, Dragalge for instance, or gone maverick and had Avalugg as the "Water area" encounter and run a different Ice Type. Avalugg is also definitely representative of the Ice Biome, but again a not-very-striking design you've probably seen a few times compared to the cliche-but-powerful Pseudo Legendary of Baxcalibur (and imagine a Champion where the Pseudo ISN'T their ace). Gogoat is just the most emblematic of this issue because it's either a design you see a lot and waltz by, or genuinely don't remember until you see it and wonder "why is something that bland on the big Champion team?"

Other Champions tend to have very distinct Pokemon that, whether or not they're particularly strong in their roles, have both a clear part and probably aren't common encounters, so they're very striking to see
  • Lance speaks for himself since 2 of his Mons aren't in GSC, Dragonite is VERY lategame (Dratini only being available to catch after Gym 8, much less train), and Gyarados is framed like a boss in story with the Lake of Rage and treated as a rare power given Magikarp's nature
  • Steven has a bevy of Steel types, but also carries the two Fossil Pokemon, being mutually exclusive and less susceptible to the usual Steel counters of Fighting/Fire/Ground to stop the usual "roll over a type specialty" concern
  • Cynthia is one of the most iconic Champions and I think it's owed in part to her team: Spiritomb is a very specific encounter method such that most players will not see one naturally during a run even if they know about it, same to Milotic taking significant effort to raise. Lucario is a specific gift Pokemon, as is Togepi -> Togekiss in Platinum replacing her Gastrodon, showing off the rewards if one sticks by babying the hatchlings like the one she even gifts you in the latter game. Roserade is a wild catch but has some similar "final stage" cred for an early baby. And of course this ends on Garchomp, who is easily one of the strongest Pokemon within their respective Debut Generations, has a very distinct design, and is one of the more out-of-the-way Encounters within Sinnoh (especially in Diamond and Pearl), making it similarly take a lot of work to get.
I hold this opinion up for Alder, Diantha, and Iris to an extent as well but the post is long enough as is. The main issue is Geeta's team just isn't very striking, Gogoat being the standout but by no means the only offender. I also think the battle fails to leave an impression partially because of the progressively easier leveling curve this gen, and also because most of her Pokemon are slow and Bulky (but not enough to avoid a strong/SE one-shot in most cases), so they don't really get to fight back and leave an impact like Steven or Cynthia would
 
Oh, without a doubt. The issue I see is that people see "average" as "mediocre", and that's a suboptimal metric. Then again, we have seen plenty of Pidgeots, Aerodactyls, Claydols and Gastrodons in champion teams before people started claiming "they are weak and forgettable".

But hey, plenty of people who insist on only OU stuff being good, despite the increasing number of tiers, and the gimmick of the gen doing weird things with viability.
You know, this reminds me of when BDSP came out, where the devs actually gave most boss encounters competent teams, and "people complained that they overdid it and bosses have too strong team compositions".

You can't please everyone, but man Pokemon fans are one of the worst offenders of this issue....
 
It was pretty funny seeing people placebo themselves into thinking Roark was especially harder, presumably based on the zeitgeist of the rematch teams, even though statistically he wasn't really altered and movepool wise it was more just lateral movements.

I'm so sorry but if you had trouble with BDSP Roark you absolutely had trouble against DP Roark.
 
It was pretty funny seeing people placebo themselves into thinking Roark was especially harder, presumably based on the zeitgeist of the rematch teams, even though statistically he wasn't really altered and movepool wise it was more just lateral movements.

I'm so sorry but if you had trouble with BDSP Roark you absolutely had trouble against DP Roark.
In fairness, Geodude and Onix are both really good counters in DP that get screwed in BDSP by Bulldoze.
 
You mean like Blue, Wallace, Alder, Iris, Diantha, Kukui, Hau, Trace and Leon?

(and Red, Mustard, Peony if we wanna get technical)
Not to be pedantic but Diantha, Leon, Blue (he has T-Tar in FRLG rematch) and Mustard has the audacity to use Pseudo even if it's not their ace, they're strong and deserved to be in the team.

Baxcalibur's custody was either with Hassel or Geeta. But IMHO Hassel fits better with Bax
 

Coronis

Impressively round
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Not to be pedantic but Diantha, Leon, Blue (he has T-Tar in FRLG rematch) and Mustard has the audacity to use Pseudo even if it's not their ace, they're strong and deserved to be in the team.

Baxcalibur's custody was either with Hassel or Geeta. But IMHO Hassel fits better with Bax
Yes the post i quoted literally said about the pseudo not being their ace….
 
You mean like Blue, Wallace, Alder, Iris, Diantha, Kukui, Hau, Trace and Leon?

(and Red, Mustard, Peony if we wanna get technical)
To clarify, my point was about the Pseudo being in the team but not being their ace, which precludes Blue (outside FRLG rematch well past the era he was initially designed in), Wallace, Alder (Volcarona is not counted as one), Kukui, and Trace from the ranking alongside 2/3 of the technical champs.

I'll give you Iris, Diantha, and Leon of course, and my point of the post was more that those Champions with a Pseudo as a non-Ace tended to have a pretty impressive or popular Pokemon that overshadows it (or at least was intended to), those being Iris's Haxorus (already her BW Ace, a popular not-Pseudo-Legendary already, and linking with her anime counterpart's Axew if we think Multimedia overlap), Diantha's Gardevoir (Megas generally being for important story battles and having one of the more dramatic Mega Evolution designs), and Leon's Gigantamax Charizard (my tiredness aside it's still a highly popular and recognizable Pokemon showing off the unique gimmick).

Meanwhile half of Geeta's Pokemon are mundane common encounters on the Overworld, with Gogoat being a horde encounter. Kingambit and Glimmora stand out given the former doesn't appear in the wild and the latter is limited to its Pre-Evo appearing before Area Zero (in fact I forget if anyone in the region has a Glimmet before Geeta)

The ultimate point is that a Pseudo-Legendary, Ace or not, is a quick way to add something striking to the Champ team, things Geeta is severely lacking in her comp.
 

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