Little Cup Metagame

[Miao]

I've been digging around, and I haven't seen much on smogon about little cup matches in the fourth generation. Now, I'm a bit confused since there also seems to be an overlap with level 1 battling, but I also see the little cup rules sitting at level 5 as well.

Most of the discussion around right now seems to be focusing on the UU metagame, with a smattering of talking about NU down the line. I find little cup style battles a bit more interesting since they feature pokemon you don't see so often, but are rather iconic in their own right.

Sadly the box trick doesn't work from what I've heard (although I could be wrong about lower level pokemon) but you can now level up to 5 from hatched eggs, which does help.

Add on top of that several pokemon have gotten new pre-evolutions this generation. Also a few have gotten evolutions as well, which would make them eligable such as gligar. Also, happiny seem like blatent plants for this format since she takes chansey (who was horribly broken for it) out of the picture.

Add on top of that each individuals HPs matter much more at this level, but also IVs can have a wider range, so it's easier to find a "perfect" pokemon at this level than level 100 battles.

For those wondering about the rules carried over they are:
Sleep/Freeze Clause
Item Clause
Self KO Clause
Only Pokemon that can be hatched from eggs are allowed (always the starting evolution)
Eligible pokemon must be a pre-evolution of another pokemon
All Pokemon are lv 5
Fixed damage moves (like Dragon Rage and Sonicboom) are banned

I'm curious if it's now level 1 only, or if the level 5 rule has carried on. Also, there's nearly no talk of the metagame for this format in the archives for the current generation.

Honestly, I might even hatch a few things for this format on the side, as it could be fun. :)

 

[TheForgottenSoul]

I really enjoy this kinds of battles and from my experience, the level rule is more dependent on the battlers / organizers preference.

 

[Tytus]

I'm pretty sure the box trick works for anything under 100. The stats cap off though I think.
I've actually considered breeding Pokes for little cup because I haven't seen ANY around. I mean like getting more powerful moves through breeding that are supposed to be learned later, specific movesets, etc.

 

[Miao]

I'm pretty sure the box trick works for anything under 100. The stats cap off though I think.
I've actually considered breeding Pokes for little cup because I haven't seen ANY around. I mean like getting more powerful moves through breeding that are supposed to be learned later, specific movesets, etc.

I've been thinking the same thing, as the metagame is nearly non-existant now, and which pokemon are ideal is seemingly a total mystery.

That's part of why I wonder about the level thing as well, as allowing level 5 lets you take the move tutor moves from emerald as well, giving you much more flexibility, otherwise its limited to only pokemon hatched in D/P. If its taken as a competative format, it kinda needs a standard, two different levels makes things a bit tricky.

 

[Tytus]

From what I understand, Focus Sash in little cup is pretty common. So Hippopotas and priority moves would be handy.

 

[sasami]

You know, I've been wondering the same things. Little Cup didn't totally die, though, because I've seen a few tournaments elsewhere. I actually entered one but failed horribly because I really don't know much about Little Cup. If it evolved into an actual metagame I'd love to try it out again. Little Cup battles are always interesting.

 

[Sunday]

It's still alive and with official rules and ban lists, you just need to know where to look. I've seen a few threads about it recently...

 

[Mekkah]

I've found that with unevolved Pokemon, Choice Scarf and Focus Sash are pretty much your best friends. Granted, this was at L100, but I believe this is even more emphasized in Little Cup. This is why Item Clause promotes more variety, but also means you'll prolly have to resort to stuff like Brightpowder and the Quick Claw berry.

 

[Amelia]

Item Clause is definately a must in little cup... and i prefer Level 5, so that the stats actually differ enough. In Level 1, the variety of the stats... isn't that much. Level 5 offers more variety.

 

[Aki]

Little cup team:

In a nutshell:

Smeargle/Gible/Meditite/Trapinch/Sneasel/Craniados

Smeargle@Sash
-Swords Dance
-Extremespeed
-Bullet Punch
-Baton Pass

Gible@Choice Band
-Outrage
-EQ
-Fire fang
-blargh filler

Medicham@Choice Scarf
-Psycho Cut
-Brick Break
-Ice Punch
-Thunderpunch
(If this is illegal just use some shitty filler moves. BB off a 12 attack stat after Pure Power just fucks shit up)

Trapinch@(Physical Boosting Item)
-EQ
-Quick Attack
-Rock Slide
-Crunch

Sneasel@LO
-Pursuit
-Ice Shard
-blargh dark stab
-blargh filler

Craniados@(Another Physical boosting move)
-EQ
-Stone Edge
-Filler
-HEAD SMASHZ

There ya go. Fufills Item Clause as well.

 

[Bologo]

IIRC, these were some of the pokemon banned:

Sneasel
Gligar
Scyther
Meditite
Cubone (with Thick Club)
Clamperl (with Deepseatooth/scale)
Wynaut

I don't remember the rest off the top of my head. Heh, I liked Little Cup.

 

[Odinwolf]

I did a LC tournament on another site a few months back and consulted the kids here on Smogon to find the best rules. I will pull those up when I get home from work tonight and post them up. There are a few pokemon, items and moves that are banned, but its still a lot of fun and adds a lot of variety to the game.

One good trick for LC battlers is to obtain/clone six XP shares and EV train against low level pokes. Keep just a single LC candidate in your party and the XP will be minimal in every battle. That way they level up VERY slowly towards that level 5 cap and you can still pack in the EVs to make your pogeys stand out in the battles.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Looking through some of the unevolved pokes--

Munchlax has 135 HP, 85 ATK and 85 Sp.DEF. Pretty impressive. O,o

Compared to the best special attackers, Abra has 105sp.ATK, Gastly and Tangela have 100, munchklax seems pretty damn sturdy . . .

 

[Miao]

Little cup team:

In a nutshell:

Smeargle/Gible/Meditite/Trapinch/Sneasel/Craniados

Smeargle@Sash
-Swords Dance
-Extremespeed
-Bullet Punch
-Baton Pass

Smeargle would not be allowed, since it doesn't evolve :)

Also someone wrote an article (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28214) on the little cup format in D/P last year, it makes an interesting read.

IIRC, these were some of the pokemon banned:

Sneasel
Gligar
Scyther
Meditite
Cubone (with Thick Club)
Clamperl (with Deepseatooth/scale)
Wynaut

I don't remember the rest off the top of my head. Heh, I liked Little Cup.

Just curious, where is that banned list from? I also get the weird feeling that some of those are carryovers from the gba metagame... or at least from the "these might be broken" list in the previous article (although, cubone and clamperl would probably be practical, as well as scyther). I suspect Wynaut gets banned out of hand "because its uber". I don't think its broken in a heavily offensive format, also with shadow tag fixed.

 

[Lorak]

Baby Metagame
DP Little Cup Analysis

 

[Darkflagrance]

I did a LC tournament on another site a few months back and consulted the kids here on Smogon to find the best rules. I will pull those up when I get home from work tonight and post them up. There are a few pokemon, items and moves that are banned, but its still a lot of fun and adds a lot of variety to the game.

One good trick for LC battlers is to obtain/clone six XP shares and EV train against low level pokes. Keep just a single LC candidate in your party and the XP will be minimal in every battle. That way they level up VERY slowly towards that level 5 cap and you can still pack in the EVs to make your pogeys stand out in the battles.

Lorak pretty much got whatever Smogon's done on this in the past...

One thing I'd like to point out though is that you don't have to EV your pokemon to the max because not all 252 evs that you put into a stat are expressed at lv 5; I think something like 236 or something gives maximum expression depending on the stat.

 

[Sayamora]

I ran a Little Cup tourney on another forum, but unfortunately it wasn't succesful because people didn't play. However, many people were interested! It would make a good idea though.

 

[Lorak]

Lorak pretty much got whatever Smogon's done on this in the past...

The fact the search function's back is pretty nifty. Used it to bookmark them in case this came up again.

 

[Psy37]

I saw this in an earlier thread, and I have to point out--a Life Orber with 19 HP deals only 1 damage of backlash with Orb.

 

[kd24]

Seems fun...Life Orb tidbit is interesting...

I want to get this straight though...Would pokemon like Marill be banned? Baby marrils can be bred since Azurill needs a special item to breed it. But Huge Power Marill seems somewhat cheap...

 

[Lorak]

Seems fun...Life Orb tidbit is interesting...

I want to get this straight though...Would pokemon like Marill be banned? Baby marrils can be bred since Azurill needs a special item to breed it. But Huge Power Marill seems somewhat cheap...

Yeah, no Marill, if I remember right, unless you're playing in GSC, where there'd be no Azurill (or Huge Power).

 

[chewy]

I have to give trapinch a mention. 100 base Atk (better than Dugtrio!) in little cup on an arena trap poke is too good to pass by.

Is Clamperl banned from little cup? I can imagine that working.

 

[Lorak]

IIRC, these were some of the pokemon banned:

Sneasel
Gligar
Scyther
Meditite
Cubone (with Thick Club)
Clamperl (with Deepseatooth/scale)
Wynaut

I don't remember the rest off the top of my head. Heh, I liked Little Cup.

Previously posted, chewy.

 

[UberMunch]

I thought only scyther was banned???

 

[Miao]

Since I've posted this, I've spent some time rummaging around the internet looking for all of the Little Cup banned lists I could.

Aside from the list on smogon, the only other place I could find was a single wiki with a handful of battlers doing little cup matches, and by the look of it they've been dead for a year .

Their banned list is the following, and I've paraphrased their explanations and my opinions:
Wynaut (No explanation, I suspect the smogon "Uber" list)
Meditite (No explanation, too strong?)
Scyther (We know about this one)
Sneasel (Same as above? No explantion)
Gligar ("Too awesome" oookay... that doesn't help)
Phione (It's not allowed anyways, wha?)
Tangela ("Needs Testing", erm... yeah)
Clamperl (No explanation, I'm wondering since they banned deepseatooth)
Munchlax (Max attack version 1hkos everything with return if its not resisted, I suspect this may be more an issue with stab return in the format, and not Munchlax however, dunuu how much testing they did)

Only one tournament is listed, and a couple people are registered by the look of it. So I'd take this banned list with a grain of salt. I think mostly the format just needs some love.