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- Thread starter Hack_Guy
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Can't wait to play! I hope this gets popular :)
EDIT: Lol I can barely tell what I need to change for my team to be playable because the corrections are in spanish xD
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First match impressions: yeah, V-turn is ridiculous, and Attack-turn pairs or trios make for obnoxious cores. But the meta is really interesting, and I don't want to push for any rash judgments. (Though I won't be surprised if V-turn, at least, ends up banned/Victini banned. It's crazy)
If a pokemon is in the air and uses a move, the move misses, even if it's a boosting move like DD. I figured this might happen, but is it possible we could get it changed?
Shouldn't that solved by the whole "accuracy bypass: self hit" thing that's kinda already supposed to be there in the first place? And wait, does that apply to attacking moves made while you're in the air and your opponent is on the ground? Like if you link say, Bounce and High Jump Kick, is the High Jump Kick guaranteed to miss?
No, it only applies to Sky Drop. Hmm, so how do we want Sky Drop to work in a link?
At the very least, moves that target the user should always hit as if the user had No Guard. That's what I think.
Done and live.
After playing some games, I can comment on some things.
Choice items, especially Choice Scarf, are probably the most prefered item because now you can set up + attack in a turn while being fast. Choice Band is very good with pokes with linked priorities.
Dragonite: Choice Band Extremespeed + Aqua Jet is very nice, because both of them are priority moves. Same goes for Talonflame Brave Bird + Acrobatics (no item though), Kecleon Sucker Punch + Shadow Sneak, Weavile Fake Out + Ice Shard, and many more things.
Manaphy: Choice Scarf Tail Glow + Surf/Scald = wow...
Victini: Choice Scarf V-Create + U-turn is very nice. Thing is, if V-Create KOs a poke, U-turn will have no target, meaning it has lowered Speed and will have to switch, meaning losing momentum.
Hazard Setters: Sash Greninja being able to lay Spikes + Toxic Spikes in a turn is very nice. Lead with multiple hazard moves is very prefered here because it can lay ridiculous amount of hazards in only a few turns.
The metagame seem to be very offensive so far.
Choice items, especially Choice Scarf, are probably the most prefered item because now you can set up + attack in a turn while being fast. Choice Band is very good with pokes with linked priorities.
Dragonite: Choice Band Extremespeed + Aqua Jet is very nice, because both of them are priority moves. Same goes for Talonflame Brave Bird + Acrobatics (no item though), Kecleon Sucker Punch + Shadow Sneak, Weavile Fake Out + Ice Shard, and many more things.
Manaphy: Choice Scarf Tail Glow + Surf/Scald = wow...
Victini: Choice Scarf V-Create + U-turn is very nice. Thing is, if V-Create KOs a poke, U-turn will have no target, meaning it has lowered Speed and will have to switch, meaning losing momentum.
Hazard Setters: Sash Greninja being able to lay Spikes + Toxic Spikes in a turn is very nice. Lead with multiple hazard moves is very prefered here because it can lay ridiculous amount of hazards in only a few turns.
The metagame seem to be very offensive so far.
If you link a move to Hyper Beam, you can fire off Hyper Beams once per turn as the recharge happens on your second action. For maximum fun, link your Pixilate Hyper Beam to Calm Mind and you automatically boost if the foe Protects against your PixiBeam! Same applies to Aerilate Giga Impact w/ Swords Dance or Dragon Dance.
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Having played a few games, I need to say that having a Stealth Rock setter is really important to control threats like Talonflame and Victini. I haven't really seen many Stealth Rock setters discussed earlier in the thread, and it is a difficult move to fit into a link, admittedly, but it really cuts down on the lifespan of Scarf attack/turn cores, which is crucial.
Talonflame is gr8. It's such a strong priority attacker that can sweep through weakened teams. While it seems tempting to run no item Acrobatics and Brave Bird together, and it does have it's uses sometimes, but it's actually outdamaged by Choice Band Aerial Ace + Brave Bird. I've found that priority users aren't as good in general since they need to have at least two strong priority moves to string together. The only thing that can maybe compete with Talonflame when it comes to this role is maybe Lucario (tfw no mega)
Talonflame is gr8. It's such a strong priority attacker that can sweep through weakened teams. While it seems tempting to run no item Acrobatics and Brave Bird together, and it does have it's uses sometimes, but it's actually outdamaged by Choice Band Aerial Ace + Brave Bird. I've found that priority users aren't as good in general since they need to have at least two strong priority moves to string together. The only thing that can maybe compete with Talonflame when it comes to this role is maybe Lucario (tfw no mega)
Mega Pinsir has Aerilate Feint + Quick Attack, a very nice combo that breaks through Protect to nail the foe super hard. You can do something similar with Feint + Bullet Punch Choice Band Scizor, which again hits stupid hard and ignores Protect. I'm actually kind of surprised by just how powerful that is.
Lucario could be fun with this as well, especially as it's able to use mixed priority with Bullet Punch + Vacuum Wave. Also, Banded Lucario with Feint and Extreme Speed seems pretty cool, doing some pretty nice damage and actually managing to have +2 priority instead of only +1.
Is Protect actually banned in links right now? If not, you could use something like Sucker Punch + Protect to defend yourself while dealing damage.
Assurance is now one of the best Dark-type moves if you don't need priority, as you can stick it in a link behind another damaging move to hit very, very hard. (Fun but irrelevant fact, Assurance deals boosted damage if the foe dealt confusion damage to themselves before it hit. I wonder if that applies to hazards damage, too?)
Actually, maybe that extra comment wasn't so irrelevant. Maybe Roar + Assurance Tyranitar might be a neat thing? Set Stealth Rock, then spam your Roar + Assurance link to deal massive damage to the foe.
Because it had to be done.
Lickilicky @ Choice Band
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Explosion
Lickilicky @ Choice Band
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Explosion
Best set 10/10
But on topic, here:
Scolipede@ black sludge
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpDef
Bold Nature
Protect
Substitute
Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Get up the free Sub and next turn pass an SD and the speed and the Sub to an ally, but you REALLY need to watch out for priority.
Another one:
Mew@ Leftovers
252 HP/ 252 Sp. def/4 Def
Wil-o-wisp
u-turn/volt switch
taunt
knock off
Stallbreaker Mew sounds fantastic here.
I only got a few games in yesterday, with many more to come today, but I was wondering about the gimmicky stall we were all expecting and how it hasn't shown much use so far. The only viable stall I've really seen is Spore + Sub Breloom, which is very strong I might add. Does anyone have other useful defensive/stally sets so far?
On another note, I'm not sure if Prankster pokes whose link has two status moves (that should both be boosted by Prankster) get the +1 priority I was hoping for. I might've just not been paying enough attention, but if this isn't working correctly it would mess with some decent sets. Insight? ;-;
On another note, I'm not sure if Prankster pokes whose link has two status moves (that should both be boosted by Prankster) get the +1 priority I was hoping for. I might've just not been paying enough attention, but if this isn't working correctly it would mess with some decent sets. Insight? ;-;
Cosmic Boiled Clefable is obnoxious if you can get started, it's just very hard to slip in.
Roost+Substitute Gliscor is a really good Physical wall, so long as the enemy doesn't have an Ice move in their link. (And sometimes even then)
There's other stuff too, though it's more situational -Heatran is a cold stop to your standard V-Turn Victini, though obviously they'll just switch in a counter.
Taunt+Thunder Wave Prankster Thundurus works correctly in my own experience, so it seems to be working.
Roost+Substitute Gliscor is a really good Physical wall, so long as the enemy doesn't have an Ice move in their link. (And sometimes even then)
There's other stuff too, though it's more situational -Heatran is a cold stop to your standard V-Turn Victini, though obviously they'll just switch in a counter.
Taunt+Thunder Wave Prankster Thundurus works correctly in my own experience, so it seems to be working.
Yeah I was mistaken. I almost never use Megas on my teams (bcz I'm a hipster) and every time I see Sableye I think of Prankster. Of course, Mega Sableye is Magic Bounce not Prankster, so I was testing with a non-Prankster poke lol.
It's not only functional, but it tears apart teams that aren't prepared for it. Its link wrecks more things than it doesn't, and Thunderbolt + HP Ice kicks ass on whatever sticks around (Ice is a really good attacking type here, btw). It's done work in every battle I've used it in thus far, especially considering how crucial speed (and not priority, oddly enough) is in this meta.
Scarfed V-Create + U-Turn Victini is as useful as it's been made out to be. Seriously, either the opponent wastes a turn dying to it, or you get to U-Turn out . I'm pretty sure the momentum loss of V-Create was the only thing keeping Victini in check in standard, and now with that sometimes gone, it's a terror.
Terrakion and Keldeo are seriously hard to switch into with dual STABs in a link. Not that they were easy to switch into in standard, but you can't simply outpredict them now -- you need to have something that can soak up both STABs waiting in the wings or a revenge killer.
Umm, I just wanted to share a set I made.
Liepard @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Encore
Torment
Pursuit
Protect (for defence against Fake Out)
The only user of this Prankster + Encore + Torment combo, Liepard basically shuts down any Pokémon that doesn't use priority (assuming priority doesn't carry over from Focus Punch, Feint, Protect and Fake Out). It forces its target into instant Struggle, before forcing them to eat double damage with Pursuit if they think about escaping. But how does Encore even work against Linked Moves?
On another note, if Focus Punch carries over priority, Focus Punch + Spore Breloom would be...well, op.
Also, Whimsicott can stall with Leech Seed + Substitute or Protect + Leech Seed.
Other things I've noticed include Fake Out + Belly Drum Hariyama and Banded Brave Bird + Flare Blitz or Brave Bird + Roost Talonflame.
More food for thought: What if Protect, when linked, protects against the first move used against it?
Liepard @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Encore
Torment
Pursuit
Protect (for defence against Fake Out)
The only user of this Prankster + Encore + Torment combo, Liepard basically shuts down any Pokémon that doesn't use priority (assuming priority doesn't carry over from Focus Punch, Feint, Protect and Fake Out). It forces its target into instant Struggle, before forcing them to eat double damage with Pursuit if they think about escaping. But how does Encore even work against Linked Moves?
On another note, if Focus Punch carries over priority, Focus Punch + Spore Breloom would be...well, op.
Also, Whimsicott can stall with Leech Seed + Substitute or Protect + Leech Seed.
Other things I've noticed include Fake Out + Belly Drum Hariyama and Banded Brave Bird + Flare Blitz or Brave Bird + Roost Talonflame.
More food for thought: What if Protect, when linked, protects against the first move used against it?
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Encore+Torment only forces a Struggle every second turn. Encore+Disable is the true satanic combination. (Fortunately Alakazam is probably the closest thing to a good abuser of it, and it's deeply flawed) As far as I've seen, Encore forces the Pokemon to re-use the Link.
Links always have the lowest priority found in the link. Focus Punch will force other moves down to -3 Priority.
By a similar token, your Fake Out+whatever Pokemon better be lightning fast and/or Scarfed if you want to actually abuse it. (And unless V-Turn gets banned, probably anything not Scarfed or that is below 100 Speed is going to struggle to be relevant) You could combine Fake Out with a +3 or more priority move, but Fake Out is the only such move that isn't a variation on Protect, Helping Hand, or some other thing completely pointless to combine with Fake Out.
Protect only blocking the first move seems unnecessary to balance it out, and it's inconsistent with actual Pokemon behavior. In Doubles/Triples, you block everything for the entire turn.
Also: here's an interesting pivot. Mat Block+U-Turn Greninja, presumably Scarfed. It lets you pull off a safe-switch in of anything while getting some damage in, including that Mat Block will prevent their own U-Turn/Volt Switch from triggering properly. A bit limited, but kind of neat.
Links always have the lowest priority found in the link. Focus Punch will force other moves down to -3 Priority.
By a similar token, your Fake Out+whatever Pokemon better be lightning fast and/or Scarfed if you want to actually abuse it. (And unless V-Turn gets banned, probably anything not Scarfed or that is below 100 Speed is going to struggle to be relevant) You could combine Fake Out with a +3 or more priority move, but Fake Out is the only such move that isn't a variation on Protect, Helping Hand, or some other thing completely pointless to combine with Fake Out.
Protect only blocking the first move seems unnecessary to balance it out, and it's inconsistent with actual Pokemon behavior. In Doubles/Triples, you block everything for the entire turn.
Also: here's an interesting pivot. Mat Block+U-Turn Greninja, presumably Scarfed. It lets you pull off a safe-switch in of anything while getting some damage in, including that Mat Block will prevent their own U-Turn/Volt Switch from triggering properly. A bit limited, but kind of neat.
Well you could do something super silly like Feint + Fake Out, if anything learns that. And, of course, assuming Fake Out still counts as being used first turn when it's the second move of the link.
V-turn isn't even the biggest problem. The real problem, to me, is Fake Out + U-turn with Scarfed Ambipom and whatever other Scarfed thing, typically Infernape iirc. Anything that isn't Ghost-type and doesn't have the ability Inner Focus will be slowly chipped to death.
You could run Protect against this but if your whole team must run Protect just to counter this, it probably shouldn't be there.
Toxic + Venom Drench/Venoshock is also a thing, but its users would be limited, especially if you could just run Sludge Bomb + Sludge Wave for more damage.