Leading with Marowak?

[Dragontamer]

I've seen Rock Slide and Stone Edge used so often in movesets I'm not really going to consider Shedinja, who automatically gets killed by them.

1. We aren't talking about Shedinja. We are talking NINJASK. Very different. Shedinja doesn't even learn baton pass.

2. Even if i assume you are talking about Ninjask... there is something called "Protect" and "Focus Sash". With protect, you are guaranteed to pass at least 1 level of speed to your ally. With Focus Sash, you are nearly guaranteed to pass 2 levels of speed and a swords dance to your partner. Nearly because of T-Tar's sandstream which screws that plan up. With Protect + Substitute, you are pretty much guaranteed to pass upto 3 levels of speed down (Protect -> Substitute -> Protect).

Taunt and so forth screw with your plans, but hey, they screw any baton passer's plans anyway.

 

[Arceus]

I'm not using Girafarig because I'm going for attack, not special attack. If it had Swords Dance I would have considered it. I would like to use Umbreon Double Team and then switch, but since there's a bunch of moves that hit through DT (Aura Sphere, for one) I can't. My gods, I hate Aura Sphere.

Does anyone know why // if Zapdos would not work?

EDIT // Heh, we posted at the same time.

I'm such a n00b - when I saw Ninjask I automatically thought Shedinja. My mistake. Question - how am I guaranteed to pass two levels of speed to my partner and one Swords Dance by using Protect? Does Ninjask ... oh wait, Speed Boost! Sweet. To be honest, I've not seen too much Taunt around, so I'm comfortable with using Ninjask then.

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Speed Boost // Jolly
176 HP // 252 ATK // 80 SPD
-- Substitute
-- Baton Pass
-- Swords Dance
-- Aerial Ace

 

[Dragontamer]

I think it looks decent. I'm just musing about your critisism of a pokemon no one is talking about because of stone edge/ rockslide, and then you post a pokemon who is weak to rock... :-/

 

[Hiro]

With Sandstorm and Stealth Rock around, Zapdos is taking a big chunk every time it switches in. Not to mention Boltbeams flying around everywhere in fear of the dragons.

 

[Arceus]

Which one, Zapdos? I thought we were talking about Shedinja - it has 1 HP. Which means that it has no chance of surviving anything that can get through Wonder Guard. But, yeah. I was stupid, sorry.

Fliers get hit by Stealth Rock? Shoot.

Well... Ninjask looks promising...

 

[Hiro]

Ninjask takes 50% from Stealth Rock, so you've really only got one chance to pass stats while your opponent's entire team is ready to counter your Marowak. Jolteon is probably your best bet if you're afraid of SR/don't have a rapid spinner.

 

[Dragontamer]

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Speed Boost // Jolly
176 HP // 252 ATK // 80 SPD
-- Substitute
-- Baton Pass
-- Swords Dance
-- Aerial Ace

X-Scissor gets STAB also, and probably can take out Alakazam or even Azelf after a Swords Dance. With 100% hit rate (not as good as Aerial ace though) and 80 base damage, you're doing 120 base after STAB, instead of just 90 with Aerial Ace.

Though, the Ace takes out Heracross. So credit is given for that. Just don't discount all your options.


Oh, and quick question. Does subsitute block out taunt? Cause then... I might have to run substitute over Protect on my Ninjask.

 

[Boa1891]

Oh, and quick question. Does subsitute block out taunt? Cause then... I might have to run substitute over Protect on my Ninjask.

I don't know, but I'll go over other reasons to go with Sub. IIRC from my battle with Footnote though, Torment did hit through sub.

~Subbing makes it easier to set up, though lengthier and riskier. Sub down to a pinch berry for something in the area of 3-4 speed boosts and 1 (insert here) boost. Sub-Protect-Attacking Move-BP is a nice set up.
~Subs can be passed, and a passed sub blocks the effect of Toxic Spikes, (and therefore probably Spikes and SR as well) as well as guarantees your switch-in will survive the turn (99.9% of the time- unless someone decided to use Bonemerang on a Flying-type's sub. Lol.)
~With good prediction, a Sub can be like a free Protect. With good prediction and Sub+Protect, you can get up a Sub scotch-free (on something setting up/switching out), protect next turn (they can't break sub), then BP the turn after, ensuring your switch in lives through the BP.

Attacking move:
I'd suggest Bug Bite for the attacking move, to possibly get free HP or stat-up from whatever you're facing, and most likely really screw it up if it is planning on using a berry for any sort of strategy. Plus it gets STAB, I guess.

 

[Generalmeng]

ok take this idea; brozong trick doom, then explode, then use your unsword danced marwaks to sweep, you have 2-3 more turns till trick doom ran out. you might ko 2-3 pokemons(1 from explode and maybe 1-2 more from marwak). then again you lost 2 in doing so.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

ok take this idea; brozong trick doom, then explode, then use your unsword danced marwaks to sweep, you have 2-3 more turns till trick doom ran out. you might ko 2-3 pokemons(1 from explode and maybe 1-2 more from marwak). then again you lost 2 in doing so.

This is similar to my idea using the Uxie/Marowak combo, except Uxie doesn't kill itself and it can be repeated many times later in the game until one of them dies. I'd like at least one person to have an opinion on it rather than everyone just ignoring it.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Speed Boost // Jolly
176 HP // 252 ATK // 80 SPD
-- Substitute
-- Baton Pass
-- Swords Dance
-- Aerial Ace

That ninjask fails cause substitute makes focus sash useless, if you're going to use focus sash use protect/swords dance/baton pass/filler

and for the person above, yes taunt hits through subs

 

[Mekkah]

Why don't people use Girafarig? it can Calm Mind, and Agility Baton Pass. plus it can attack, it's immune to Ghost attacks, and has okay stats.

It's not good at anything. Speed and Special Attack are average but nothing really sticks out, he just dies really really quickly. You'll hardly get away with both Agility and Calm Mind, and there's better options for both.

 

[sanjay120]

X-Scissor gets STAB also, and probably can take out Alakazam or even Azelf after a Swords Dance.

I lold hard at this. Do you have any idea how much Zam takes from unboosted Silver Wind in ADV? Swords Dance is not needed.

 

[Generalmeng]

Lemmiwinks MkII, your idea of uxie is good; what im thinking is that marowaks can't really stay that long to SW up cause trick doom last only 5 turns. so might as well as make the bang big and loud. no explode means a free set up or damaged marowaks, which might hinder its sweep ability. so boom on their face, and kill as much as possible.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Lemmiwinks MkII, your idea of uxie is good; what im thinking is that marowaks can't really stay that long to SW up cause trick doom last only 5 turns. so might as well as make the bang big and loud. no explode means a free set up or damaged marowaks, which might hinder its sweep ability. so boom on their face, and kill as much as possible.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. The idea was that Uxie, with its colossal defenses and decent speed, can take the attack BEFORE U-turning out in most situations. Also, it is called Trick Room, not Trick Doom. And by the way, what the hell is SW?

 

[Arceus]

I think he means SD, Lemmiwinks. I love that name, BTW.

Wow, guys. Thanks. Seriously, I've gotten a lot of ideas. The point of X-Scissor being more powerful than Aerial Ace is a good point, but I'm wondering if my opponent would automatically switch to Heracross when s/he sees Shedinja, or if Heracross is a common Pokemon to run in Wi-Fi. Then, I would need a counter for Heracross if it's a threat.

Uxie is another good option, but I'm wondering about Trick Room. After Trick Room finishes, doesn't that leave Marowak open for a beating or should I just sweep with what I can in those turns and just let Marowak go Kamikaze? And if Marowak dies before Trick Room finishes, wouldn't that disable my other Pokemon? Although, I could use Rhyperior to wall in that case.

 

[adman2]

I think he means SD, Lemmiwinks. I love that name, BTW.

Wow, guys. Thanks. Seriously, I've gotten a lot of ideas. The point of X-Scissor being more powerful than Aerial Ace is a good point, but I'm wondering if my opponent would automatically switch to Heracross when s/he sees Shedinja, or if Heracross is a common Pokemon to run in Wi-Fi. Then, I would need a counter for Heracross if it's a threat.

Uxie is another good option, but I'm wondering about Trick Room. After Trick Room finishes, doesn't that leave Marowak open for a beating or should I just sweep with what I can in those turns and just let Marowak go Kamikaze? And if Marowak dies before Trick Room finishes, wouldn't that disable my other Pokemon? Although, I could use Rhyperior to wall in that case.

Heracross is a common Pokemon. There's a topic on the most commonly used Pokemon based on RMTs in the Stark Mountain forum.

As for Trick Room, I'd suggest just switching out Marowak when it ends, so it might fight again another day (or turn).

 

[igottjam]

Or maybe for Bronzong; you can Trick Room, then cripple the foe. So it'd be like

Trick Room
Gyro Ball / Confuse Ray / Will-o-Wisp
Confuse Ray / Will-o-Wisp
Explosion

Trick Room first. Then use crippling moves [confuse ray, will-o-wisp]. If you used both then that would be 2/5. Gyro Ball x3. 5/5 Trick Room again then Explode..

Now that I got it all typed up, I'm not sure it would work LOL.

 

[Arceus]

You sure the opponent is going to stay in for Bronzong?

Where's the topic where it lists common competitive Pokemon?

 

[adman2]

You sure the opponent is going to stay in for Bronzong?

Where's the topic where it lists common competitive Pokemon?

I'm pretty sure you want to see this:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22553

 

[Arceus]

You get an eCookie.

I guess I will, in fact, go with Aerial Ace considering that Azelf and Alakazam don't seem to be that popular. However, does X-Scissor hit anything harder than Aerial Ace on anything more popular than Heracross? Cresslia seems to be one, but I'm not quite sure.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

I think he means SD, Lemmiwinks. I love that name, BTW.

Wow, guys. Thanks. Seriously, I've gotten a lot of ideas. The point of X-Scissor being more powerful than Aerial Ace is a good point, but I'm wondering if my opponent would automatically switch to Heracross when s/he sees Shedinja, or if Heracross is a common Pokemon to run in Wi-Fi. Then, I would need a counter for Heracross if it's a threat.

Uxie is another good option, but I'm wondering about Trick Room. After Trick Room finishes, doesn't that leave Marowak open for a beating or should I just sweep with what I can in those turns and just let Marowak go Kamikaze? And if Marowak dies before Trick Room finishes, wouldn't that disable my other Pokemon? Although, I could use Rhyperior to wall in that case.

Every Trick Room team should carry more than one slow Pokemon to abuse it. The idea of Marowak in tandem with Uxie is that it can be repeated more than once. Once you have its counter sussed out, its sweeping potential is frightening. After a SD, 1136 Atk with Fire Punch/Earthquake/Double Edge has no 'wall', so once you know if your opponent has Slowbro or Bronzong for example, you know already what to expect, and you can act accordingly.

 

[Arceus]

Good point. Alright, then. So now it's starting to look something like this.

Uxie @ Leftovers
Levitate // ???
??? // ??? // ??
-- Trick Room
-- U-Turn
-- ???
-- ???

Uxie Trick Rooms, then U-Turns. Any suggestions?

Marowak @ Thick Club
Rock Head // Adamant
252 ATK // 252 DEF // 4 SDEF
-- Swords Dance
-- Earthquake
-- Double-Edge
-- Rock Slide

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Solid Rock // Adamant
252 HP // 252 ATK // 6 DEF
-- Earthquake
-- Stone Edge
-- Swords Dance
-- Megahorn

I'd like to thank Misty for coming up with this moveset. I need Megahorn for the lack of strong bug-type moves. Rhyperior could be supportive - a sort of back-up for Marowak and a potential abuser of Trick Room.

I'm considering Wish support for Marowak, considering that Marowak doesn't have Leftovers and since he's going to be doing some legwork he'll need some help. After some stat comparing, Jirachi is the best Pokemon that knows both Trick Room and Wish (Trick Room, Wish, swap to Marowak) with Gardevoir being the second best.

 

[adman2]

You get an eCookie.

I guess I will, in fact, go with Aerial Ace considering that Azelf and Alakazam don't seem to be that popular. However, does X-Scissor hit anything harder than Aerial Ace on anything more popular than Heracross? Cresslia seems to be one, but I'm not quite sure.

Oh boy! A cookie! :)

*Attempts to eat virtual cookie*

Most people only use Aerial Ace for Heracross anyway, and there are other ways to counter it besides Ninjask.

As for Jirachi, Jibaku was giving them away a few days ago. Look around in the Wi-Fi Forum, and a topic should appear. (Search "Jibaku's Jirachis")

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

To Notorious, Uxie's third slot ought to be Stealth Rock, then you have a choice out of Reflect, Light Screen and Yawn. The latter forces switches, which works great with Stealth Rock and U-Turn, whilst the screens can give your team extra protection, including Marowak.
EDIT: Just noticed you have Rock Slide over Fire Punch. Why? It doesn't need it, not to mention Skarmory and Bronzong then wall it comfortably. Also, Brave over Adamant works best.