Shrug
LCPL Champion
approved by macle
credit to idea goes to DOU and Stratos
Any good team in any metagame is created with a singular goal: to win. More specifically, teams are built to win through the use of a specific strategy, whether that be Sun Offense with Bellsprout, Hazards HO with a lategame Carvanha, or Semistall with Pawniard to clean. Teams of a given archtype encounter similar problems which must be dealt with through similar means, creating a basic framework that can be adhered to or riffed on depending on the build. This thread will identify frameworks within teams of an archtype through anaylsis of high-level teams then seek to explain the roles held by each mon. By doing this, I hope the community can gain a better understanding of how teams of specific strategies synergize and the roles that need to be fulfilled for a team to work - the latter might even allow for innovation as underrated mons might be found to satisfy multiple jobs on a teamstyle and thus become valuable.
Archetypes and Analysis:
Bulky Timburr Offense:
My Team:
RZL2000 and Slurmz 's team:
Analyzing the teams, you see clear similarities. Both are based around a strong sweeper in BU Timburr. Timburr clearly struggles with Gastly and Abra, so a Pursuit user is a good pick. Fletchling is also a concern, so a solid stop is found with Archen on both teams; both also use Snubbull to threaten Fighting-types. Fast water types threaten a lot of the metagame and serve as general threats and ways of regaining momentum. Bulky Grass types on both teams sponge common Water- and Electric- type attacks. The allotment of resources is different: RZL and Slurmz use their Pursuit mon as also their hazard-clearer, freeing up a spot for Scarfchou; they have Rocks on Archen and have Foongus serve as the bulky grass. Overall, though, teams of a similar framework that operate similarly.
- Timburr
- 1 Bulky Pursuit user for Abra / Gastly
- 1 Strong Fighting switch-in with offensive presence
- 1 Strong Fletch counter
- 1 Hazard Remover
- 1 Fast Water-type
- 1 Bulky Grass-type
- Stealth Rock
Sun Offense:
(mad0ka)
(tazz)
(Omastar42)
These teams are emblematic of the blueprint of effective Sun Offense. All obviously have Vulpix, as that what makes it a sun team. To note: Omastar uses Choice Scarf on his to increase its damage potential. Similarly, each has a sun sweeper, madoka and tazz using the more common Bellsprout, but Omastar taking a more powerful, slower approach with Houndour. Mienfoo is everywhere to give a pivot and a good Pawn check. Madoka and Oma opted for Pawniard as a good offensive Pawn switch and Rock user, while Tazzie elected to gain another Vturn presence with Mag; Madoka runs Scarfpawn to increase team speed. All teams have Archen to clear hazards with Defog as well as to provide a strong answer to Fletchling on top of their Steel-type. The last spot is Snubs to answer Fighting-types and hammer with strong attacks.
- Sun Setter (Vulpix)
- Sun Sweeper
- 2 Fletch Switchins
- 1 Scarf User
- 1 Solid Fighting Switchin
- 1 Pivot
- 1 Hazard Remover
- Stealth Rocks
- 1 Pawn Check
What I hope from this thread will be a community effort to look at team structures and find the commonalities in them. I'll list archetypes that we could look at below; if anyone has one they would like added, just post here. The ideal process would be good teams are submitted for a given archetype, then as a community we look and find the necessary elements baked into those teams, from which we get a list. If anyone wants to find teams and analyze the framework, feel free; if anyone wants to correct / amend / disagree with my ideas in the op, feel free.
Styles:
- Sticky Webs HO
- Dwebble Hazard HO
- Volt-turn
- Semistall
- Rain Offense
- Birdspam
- Waterspam
- General Types of Bulky O
- Trick Room
credit to idea goes to DOU and Stratos
Any good team in any metagame is created with a singular goal: to win. More specifically, teams are built to win through the use of a specific strategy, whether that be Sun Offense with Bellsprout, Hazards HO with a lategame Carvanha, or Semistall with Pawniard to clean. Teams of a given archtype encounter similar problems which must be dealt with through similar means, creating a basic framework that can be adhered to or riffed on depending on the build. This thread will identify frameworks within teams of an archtype through anaylsis of high-level teams then seek to explain the roles held by each mon. By doing this, I hope the community can gain a better understanding of how teams of specific strategies synergize and the roles that need to be fulfilled for a team to work - the latter might even allow for innovation as underrated mons might be found to satisfy multiple jobs on a teamstyle and thus become valuable.
Archetypes and Analysis:
Bulky Timburr Offense:
My Team:
RZL2000 and Slurmz 's team:
Archen @ Eviolite
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 100 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost
Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 164 HP / 188 Def / 148 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Thunder Wave
- Bullet Seed
Snubbull @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thief
- Thunder Wave
Houndour @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Atk / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Toxic
Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 80 HP / 36 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 156 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Psychic
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 100 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost
Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 164 HP / 188 Def / 148 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Thunder Wave
- Bullet Seed
Snubbull @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thief
- Thunder Wave
Houndour @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Atk / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Toxic
Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 80 HP / 36 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 156 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Psychic
Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 116 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up
Stunky @ Eviolite
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 12 HP / 92 Atk / 64 Def / 108 SpA / 188 SpD / 4 Spe
Brave Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast
- Defog
Archen @ Eviolite
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
Chinchou @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 52 Def / 232 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
Snubbull @ Berry Juice
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thief
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 156 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 116 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up
Stunky @ Eviolite
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 12 HP / 92 Atk / 64 Def / 108 SpA / 188 SpD / 4 Spe
Brave Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast
- Defog
Archen @ Eviolite
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
Chinchou @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 52 Def / 232 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
Snubbull @ Berry Juice
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thief
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 156 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Analyzing the teams, you see clear similarities. Both are based around a strong sweeper in BU Timburr. Timburr clearly struggles with Gastly and Abra, so a Pursuit user is a good pick. Fletchling is also a concern, so a solid stop is found with Archen on both teams; both also use Snubbull to threaten Fighting-types. Fast water types threaten a lot of the metagame and serve as general threats and ways of regaining momentum. Bulky Grass types on both teams sponge common Water- and Electric- type attacks. The allotment of resources is different: RZL and Slurmz use their Pursuit mon as also their hazard-clearer, freeing up a spot for Scarfchou; they have Rocks on Archen and have Foongus serve as the bulky grass. Overall, though, teams of a similar framework that operate similarly.
- Timburr
- 1 Bulky Pursuit user for Abra / Gastly
- 1 Strong Fighting switch-in with offensive presence
- 1 Strong Fletch counter
- 1 Hazard Remover
- 1 Fast Water-type
- 1 Bulky Grass-type
- Stealth Rock
Sun Offense:
These teams are emblematic of the blueprint of effective Sun Offense. All obviously have Vulpix, as that what makes it a sun team. To note: Omastar uses Choice Scarf on his to increase its damage potential. Similarly, each has a sun sweeper, madoka and tazz using the more common Bellsprout, but Omastar taking a more powerful, slower approach with Houndour. Mienfoo is everywhere to give a pivot and a good Pawn check. Madoka and Oma opted for Pawniard as a good offensive Pawn switch and Rock user, while Tazzie elected to gain another Vturn presence with Mag; Madoka runs Scarfpawn to increase team speed. All teams have Archen to clear hazards with Defog as well as to provide a strong answer to Fletchling on top of their Steel-type. The last spot is Snubs to answer Fighting-types and hammer with strong attacks.
Houndour @ Life Orb
Ability: Early Bird
Level: 5
EVs: 116 Atk / 116 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 9 HP
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Nasty Plot
Vulpix @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drought
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 196 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Overheat
Snubbull @ Berry Juice
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thief
- Thunder Wave
Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
Archen @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Rock Slide
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Taunt
Ability: Early Bird
Level: 5
EVs: 116 Atk / 116 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 9 HP
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Nasty Plot
Vulpix @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drought
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 196 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Overheat
Snubbull @ Berry Juice
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thief
- Thunder Wave
Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
Archen @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Rock Slide
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Taunt
Vulpix @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Quick Attack
Snubbull @ Berry Juice
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Atk / 200 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thief
- Heal Bell
Archen @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Acrobatics
- Defog
Bellsprout @ Eviolite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 196 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- U-turn
Pawniard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
Ability: Drought
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Quick Attack
Snubbull @ Berry Juice
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Atk / 200 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thief
- Heal Bell
Archen @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Acrobatics
- Defog
Bellsprout @ Eviolite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 196 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- U-turn
Pawniard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
Heat Rock Vulpix / LO Sprout / Evio Mienfoo / Scarf Magnemite / Archen / Snubbull
- Sun Setter (Vulpix)
- Sun Sweeper
- 2 Fletch Switchins
- 1 Scarf User
- 1 Solid Fighting Switchin
- 1 Pivot
- 1 Hazard Remover
- Stealth Rocks
- 1 Pawn Check
What I hope from this thread will be a community effort to look at team structures and find the commonalities in them. I'll list archetypes that we could look at below; if anyone has one they would like added, just post here. The ideal process would be good teams are submitted for a given archetype, then as a community we look and find the necessary elements baked into those teams, from which we get a list. If anyone wants to find teams and analyze the framework, feel free; if anyone wants to correct / amend / disagree with my ideas in the op, feel free.
Styles:
- Sticky Webs HO
- Dwebble Hazard HO
- Volt-turn
- Semistall
- Rain Offense
- Birdspam
- Waterspam
- General Types of Bulky O
- Trick Room