Lati@s Discussion Thread

[Veedrock]

I actually think Kingdra is better due to STAB Waterfall, which means that it isn't walled by Bronzong and Skarmory as easily.

True, plus I love his typing (4x water and fire resist is hella nice) and I just read that Latias isn't allowed on Suspect so I'll just place him over her. I didn't use Mixed Kingdra anyways, so Latios will be my mixed dragon.

Also, from the sticky.

The Suspect Test Facilitators have determined an unpublished but 100% objective requirement in addition to the 1760/55 and 1655/65 requirements posted

I wonder what the hell this means. As if I wasn't troubled enough with the fact of simply playing with Latios, now there's a hidden requirement for voting. Ugh.

Few more things.

Glad to see this thread is up again, though what sucks is that it'll be shut down once the sticky opens. :(

Speaking of the sticky's news, I don't see why Latias won't be allowed on suspect. I know it's for "isolation' purposes, but what does that mean exactly? Considering he makes OU, they'll be allowed together anyways. And we're supposed to be testing them in the standard environment anyways, so why not include all standard Pokemon? I'm not trying to suggest it needs changed or complaining, I'm just looking for explanation to this "isolation" decision because I don't get it.

I don't know why some people are already speculating OU. From pure theorymon it is built of uber, but of course actual play is completely different and can reveal shocking surprises.

 

[Winto]

I think you forgot to include STAB, or else it would be 210 base power, in which case, with SR, a 2hko may be possible

No, that has STAB factored in. Without STAB it's only 33% max.

 

[RaikouLover]

I edited the OP but its being stubborn now and won't let me edit my last set in there, and fix up the bolding.

 

[Veedrock]

Thanks RL. That'll help out a lot. I'm going to look at them extensively right now.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

From what I've read, it's not a hidden requirement to "disqualify" you, but an extra way to qualify for voting. I was worried at first, but all in all i think it's a good thing.

 

[Veedrock]

It does kind of read that way. Hm, interesting. We'll just see what happens then. Any idea about the isolation in the test? Still doesn't make much sense to me for reasons stated above.

I'm really liking that Mixed Latios and DD Mix sets, so I'll definately have to give them a shot before anything else. Did you mean to leave off the Memento set though?

 

[RaikouLover]

no, it wont let me edit it at the moment... I was going to post that one. I'll do it 2morrow probably.

 

[1059860]

So why use SpecsMence now?

Latias @ Choice Specs
* Draco Meteor
* Surf / Grass Knot
* HP Fire
* Trick / Grass Knot / Shadow Ball / Psychic

Having much greater Defense and colossal Special Defense, able to Trick & Recover, and most importantly, no 4x weak to Ice, this thing basically shuts SpecsMence in a cage.

Also, if not used on a Specs set, it works as a great Special Wall, can Recover, and deal very good damage offensively as well.

And next month Jump said we're testing to have Soul Dew unbanned? What are you kidding me?

 

[Veedrock]

Nope. There is no evidence to suggest that Soul Dew is "broken" (speculation leads to that belief though). Do keep in mind that Latios might not be in OU at that time.

Yeah, SpecsMence became near obsolete with Latias, but Latios shuts it down completely.

I'm going to predict that specs becomes increasingly popular and people will overlook that nice 90 Attack stat. Come on, people use MixPert, and Swampert's Special Attack is 85. Mix has some serious potential that will unleash hell. STAB Outrage doesn't go over lightly either.

So many possibilities. This month with be one helluva ride.

 

[RaikouLover]

Latias @ Choice Specs
* Draco Meteor
* Surf / Grass Knot
* HP Fire
* Trick / Grass Knot / Shadow Ball / Psychic

No reason to use Grass Knot, Shadow Ball, or HP Fire on Specs Latios.

 

[Chill]

Anyword on why Latias will not be allowed since she is no longer suspect?

This is going to my first time partaking in a suspect test. After reading the last thread I felt very encouraged to join in and I hope I meet the requirments. That includes this new mystery requirement. It does read as a disqaulifier but jump says this was included to widen the pool of eligible voters so I feel positive about the change.

 

[Darkerkrai]

God, the last thing the OU metagame needs is more offense and Latios really isn't helping. The fact that it can brush aside most OU's walls (including his sister!) jsut makes it more fearful in the end. I know people are going to say, "Pursuit kills it, Steels stop it, Tyranitar just needs to invest in Special Defense to beat it, etc.", but, as I've said in the Deoxys-L thread, Latios is a Psychic type, Psychic types aren't going to be taking Dark and Ghost (and Ice) hits very well, anyway. Consider the offensive characteristic of an Uber, something that's able to sweep with little effort. Then consider Latios's resistances, Calm Mind, Trick, Offensive Movepool and Dragon Dance, I doubt that it needs that much effort to sweep... Then, you have a base 90 Attack, base 80 HP/Defense, base 130 Special Attack, base 110 Speed and Special Defense that Latios rides it all from.

Memento is actually pretty nice for getting something in safely. Latios won't even care about dying to support another teammate with all of the Pursuit users going around (that are slower at that) that will just KO Latios, anyway.

 

[RaikouLover]

Latios has a whole nother dimension though with Dragon Dance. You can't freely switch Tyranitar and Metagross and shit into it because they may be switching into a Dragon Dance or a Choice Banded Earthquake. If you take a look at the sets I've posted, most of the so called "counters" are going to get blitzed by Latios one way or another.

 

[Silent Storm]

After looking at the sets RL posted, a part of me is saying Latios is better off staying Uber, while another part of me is hoping he is allowed in OU after the test.

Edit - I will be sure to participate in this test, I am so far loving the MixLatios set, but I will mainly be using CMLatios.

 

[lilyhollow]

Speaking of the sticky's news, I don't see why Latias won't be allowed on suspect. I know it's for "isolation' purposes, but what does that mean exactly? Considering he makes OU, they'll be allowed together anyways. And we're supposed to be testing them in the standard environment anyways, so why not include all standard Pokemon? I'm not trying to suggest it needs changed or complaining, I'm just looking for explanation to this "isolation" decision because I don't get it.

Yeah, I'm not so sure what to think about this either for the moment. I was really under the impression that they'd both be tested at the same time, so this was pretty much a surprise for me.

I don't know why some people are already speculating OU. From pure theorymon it is built of uber, but of course actual play is completely different and can reveal shocking surprises.

Well, we didn't really theorymon Lati@s out of DP, so much as theorymon them out of Advance and just adhere to that for DPPt. And considering that Latias is OU, I'm not surprised at this speculation.

 

[Crafty Veteran]

Latios is another field in terms of offense. A threat to both physical and special will double think the player. A much more versatile pokemon that could actually take out its counter with a MixSet or a DD Set. This will be a tougher choice when it comes to voting.

 

[Relictivity]

Latios is another field in terms of offense. A threat to both physical and special will double think the player. A much more versatile pokemon that could actually take out its counter with a MixSet or a DD Set. This will be a tougher choice when it comes to voting.

In other words, it will be another DD Mixmence. Ouch. I am DEFINATELY staying away from OU.

 

[Kay [Old]]

Well, I'm quitting OU heading to UU after this, but I thought I'd ask this about the Latios test: what would it take for him to be declared Uber, anyways? It isn't centralization, obviously. It's not having no concrete counters (since the whole concept of counters is junk to begin with). So, just what would it take for Latios to be declared uber?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Huh guys, this is a SUSPECT test, damnit. Latios won't be in OU. He'll be in Suspect.

 

[Giffca89]

Anyword on why Latias will not be allowed since she is no longer suspect?

I believe that Latias will not be allowed because she is actually still a suspect. Nothing deemed a suspect will lose that status until after stage 3 of the test, and therefore Latias cannot be allowed in a metagame which is "suspect-less" besides for Latios.

 

[Relictivity]

Response to Kay

It's for being an offensive threat - Salamence's Special Counterpart. Walls no longer exist to counter the mixed varieties of these pokemon. (If one does, TELL ME)

In other words Best Mixed Attackers > Best Mixed Walls

Also notice that most of the time

Best Physical Attackers > Best Physical Walls
Best Special Attackers = Best Special Walls

We are trying to get all three to be equal signs.

 

[Kay [Old]]

Response to Kay

It's for being an offensive threat - Salamence's Special Counterpart. Walls no longer exist to counter the mixed varieties of these pokemon. (If one does, TELL ME)

In other words Best Mixed Attackers > Best Mixed Walls

Also notice that most of the time

Best Physical Attackers > Best Physical Walls
Best Special Attackers = Best Special Walls

We are trying to get all three to be equal signs.

Latias is a physical wall? News to me.

 

[Relictivity]

No, not Latias, Latios. And it is a powerful mixed attacker. As I said

Best Physical Attackers > Best Physical Walls
Best Mixed Attackers > Best Mixed Walls
Best Special Attacker = Best Special Walls

All three equals is a balanced metagame
If the special changes to a >, than we have hyperoffense!
Latias fits under the category of Special Wall.

 

[Darkerkrai]

Well, I'm quitting OU heading to UU after this, but I thought I'd ask this about the Latios test: what would it take for him to be declared Uber, anyways? It isn't centralization, obviously. It's not having no concrete counters (since the whole concept of counters is junk to begin with). So, just what would it take for Latios to be declared uber?

This

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

Basically, if Latios fits one or more of these, it can be classified as an Uber. Having "no true counters" doesn't make something Uber, hell, if that were the case, DDMence and Scizor would've been Uber loooong ago.

 

[TekkenStorm]

If Latios actually makes it to OU latias won't stay OU for long as her bro outclasses her, so will we have a suspect test for latias to UU or will it go straight to BL?