It Doesn't Croak [OU Rain Stall]

[ErraticMagic]

Hello everyone, I'm a pretty new poster here on the forums although I've been lurking Smogon since the ADV days. I stopped playing pokemon for a bit when Black and White came out but I've recently gotten back into learning the metagame. This is my first RMT so sorry if it's not too great.

I have a rain stall team here and I've chosen this one because I think it's the one of the better teams that I have made and it stars an underrated defensive threat, Toxicroak. It's gotten one of my alts to about 1900 but I think I could get higher on another if I played better and got haxed less.

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Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic​

The team's main wall and the first of member of my main defensive core of Chansey, Ferrothorn, and Toxicroak. It isn't really ever 2hko'ed immediately unless its hit by a fighting move or STAB Outrage, which are handled by Toxicroak or Landorus-T and Ferrothorn respectively. Wish support is very useful especially for Landorus-T and Ferrothorn and is enough to heal any of my team members back up to around full health. It is also my best answer to Alakazam and faster Jirachi w/o Substitute that want to threaten Toxicroak.​

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball​

The team's defensive steel type and second member my defensive core. It can take both special and physical Dragon attacks decently and can take a fire move or two from something like Salamence thanks to rain. Spikes since stall wouldn't be very potent without them, Gyro Ball is for Kyurem-B in particular and is also good for Espeon, Latias, and speed boosting sweepers, and Leech Seed keeps Ferrothorn healthy and can give other teammates some needed recovery.​

Toxicroak (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch​

The third part of the main defensive core which takes fighting attacks for the other two members, I almost think this pokemon was almost made to be paired with these two. It counters Keldeo, Terrakion w/o Earthquake, Feraligator, Azumarill, Sharpedo, checks Lucario, Conkeldurr, Breloom, lures in Jellicent, and stalls out bulky waters all while remaining at fairly high health. Drain Punch gives a little bit extra recovery and Ice Punch can hit Garchomps and Landorus-Ts on the switch.​

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 36 SAtk / 224 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Thunder
- Recover
- Rapid Spin​

The rapid spinner for the team and you may ask isn't Tentacruel better? Tentacruel just has too much overlap with Toxicroak in my opinion to keep good team synergy. However Starmie can check problematic pokemon like Mamoswine and Landorus-T, and pick off weakened pokemon with it's speed. Starmie is also a secondary answer to Keldeo in case something happens to Toxicroak. Thunder is used to hit Jellicent on the switch which 2hko'es physically defensive versions after rocks and it can also help with the occasional Vaporeon.​

Politoed (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psychic
- Protect
- Perish Song
​

Politoed isn't great of course but rain is absolutely necessary for this team to work. Outside of setting rain it's only uses are to check Reuniclus, Mamoswine, and Toxicroak so if my opponent doesn't have those pokemon I tend to just spam Scald/Perish Song until it gets worn down. It's always hilarious when Toxicroak try to setup on you and you just ohko them. Those are fairly uncommon except for Mamoswine, so I don't need need much team dedication to those threats. It can also counter Gyarados so Ferrothorn can stay healthy to better check some other threat.

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Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Spd / 172 Def
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn​

The team's answer for certain physical attackers that are a big threat to this team, namely Garchomp, Landorus-T, Scizor. Its also a secondary check to Terrakion and Breloom to take some pressure off of Toxicroak. Also the stealth rock setter for my team which freed up a slot for Chansey, can U-turn on Magic Bouncers and Sash Breloom, and gives some offensive pressure to sun teams.


Major Threats:

Sableye - Screw this thing.
Venusaur - If Sun is out I don't a good answer to it, so maybe replace Chansey with Latias? I don't see sun that often though.
Reuniclus - I can force out CM with perish song and U-turn on Landorus-T does a decent chunk to offensive versions but well played this would probably completely destroy me.
Jirachi - SubCM Jirachi, if Chansey can't break its subs and Landorus-T is slower I'm in for a rough time.
Kyurem-B - Because obviously good against stall.
Ferrothorn - I have to try to get a Scald burn or whittle it down with Landorus-T or Toxicroak, so maybe Gliscor w/ Taunt over Landorus-T?
Jellicent - Physically defensive versions are 2hko'ed by Starmie after rocks and Toxicroak can toxic it.
Scizor - SD Scizor is pretty a big threat. Maybe Skarmory over Ferrothorn or Landorus-T?
Garchomp - Checked by Landorus-T and Ferrothorn can come in when it's locked into Outrage.

That's all for now and your suggestions are very appreciated.

 

[bobismoi]

Use Protect over Wish on Chansey. Soft boiled is too similar to Wish to take up a moveslot.

Croak has no business running Toxic. Replace it with. Bulk Up or Sucker punch.

Use Toxic on Toed over Psychic. Croak is dealt with by Perish Song anyway.

So that's all I got. I'll be sure to let you know if I find anything else!

 

[Yuttt]

Use Protect over Wish on Chansey. Soft boiled is too similar to Wish to take up a moveslot.

Croak has no business running Toxic. Replace it with. Bulk Up or Sucker punch.

Use Toxic on Toed over Psychic. Croak is dealt with by Perish Song anyway.

So that's all I got. I'll be sure to let you know if I find anything else!

First of all, Softboiled on Chansey is good to not let setup up sweepers have their way with chansey with protect. Softboiled is perfectly legitimate on any chansey.

Secondly, Croak is great to have toxic on, as it allows it to stall out many pokemon, and it lures in Jellicent and other bulky waters, who hate being toxic'd.

As for a rate, maybe you could try Blastoise over Starmie if you want a more bulky spinner, but don't want a poison type? It has rain dish, which gives it as much recovery as tentacruel has. Good luck with the team!

 

[Jimbon]

Hi there,

Pretty decent stall build you have here, however there are a couple of problems I can see with this team. One of the main problems I see is that your Rapid Spinner in Starmie doesn't seem like the best fit for your team. Your team is fairly weak to hazards with 5/6 members affected by Spikes and Starmie doesn't really match up too well with some of the bigger threats to this team, primarily Sableye, Ferrothorn, and Scizor. To remedy this I'd strongly recommend dropping Starmie in place of Tentacruel who does patch up a lot of your problems while performing the same role but arguably providing more survivability, which I think you'd value more on a stall team. Tentacruel fares much better against Swords Dance Scizor down to typing, while you can effectively stop Ferrothorn from hazard stacking thanks to the high chance of a Scald burn + Rapid Spin and you also handle Sableye better thanks to Rain Dish. Additionally, Tentacruel does patch up your Jellicent problem further, as you can Toxic it quickly wearing it down and ultimately making it easier to spinblock against equally defensively inclined teams.

Whilst looking over your team, I also thought that your Chansey set could be improved a little. I'd strongly consider dropping Toxic in place of Thunder Wave to help with stuff like Sub CM Jirachi that wants to switch into Chansey for free, as well as other physical Pokemon that like to switch into Chansey [Terrakion, Kyurem-B, Scizor]. Thunder Wave will definitely help you deal with these threats easier, as it limits their stat-boosting opportunities and makes them much easier to revenge and play around in general. On the topic of Chansey's set, I'd also recommend making your EV spread 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef -- given Chansey's already high HP stat there's not a whole lot of reason to invest in HP. Given that Eviolite doubles defensive stats and ignores HP you'll actually achieve better overall bulk with this change, which may make it a little easier for Chansey to take hits on either side of the spectrum.

Agreeing with the suggestion of other posters to drop Toxic on Toxicroak in place of Bulk Up. This will provide you with some sort of win condition against similarly defensive teams, as your only real hope to beat them is through multiple Scald burns and keeping Starmie healthy. Toxicroak does not really bait in defensive threats that are really hurt by Toxic, especially after they see you use Substitute -- common switch-ins are stuff like Gengar and Alakazam, both of which your Toxicroak set isn't beating regardless. Given how popular stuff like Scarf Keldeo and offensive Politoed are, you will have plenty of chances to get Toxicroak in and start setting up, while I'd argue losing Toxic on Toxicroak is not that much of a loss if you choose to go with my next change.

If you're really paranoid about losing Toxic on Toxicroak then it might be wise to follow up and give Toxic to Politoed, probably in place of Psychic. While Psychic on Politoed does help you against Toxicroak, I'd argue you can play around every variant of Toxicroak anyway. Landorus-T beats Bulk Up sets, while you can stall out Swords Dance sets with Perish Song plus your own Toxicroak.

The remainder of the threats to your team seem as though they can be played around with smart play, I wouldn't worry about them too much. Overall though, cool team. Good luck!

 

[ErraticMagic]

I think I'll try Bulk Up over Toxic on Toxicroak and Tentacruel over Starmie. I just put Toxic on Toxicroak mainly because that was what the set on the analysis had, and it did lure in Jellicent and Landorus-T at times. The main reason I had chosen Starmie was I was kind of worried about stacking weaknesses and didn't want to rely too much on Landorus-T to deal with Ground types, but yeah I agree that Tentacruel is better overall. Also if I'm using Tentacruel I kind of want to replace Toxicroak with something else like Latias since Tentacruel and Toxicroak really don't have great synergy. This is probably the reason why Toxicroak really isn't seen much on these teams since there is just too much overlap with Tentacruel, but I wanted to have a team with it because I wanted to try it out and it's great to have a hard counter to most Keldeo.

As for the other suggestions, I don't really see how Perish Song deals with SD Toxicroak too well, obviously they aren't always going to be setting up on Politoed and +2 LO Drain Punch will do a ton so it is only really going to be forcing it out once if that happens. Giving my own Toxicroak Bulk Up would help remedy that though. As for T-wave on Chansey, paralysis doesn't work so well with Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, Terrakion and Kyurem-B don't really worry me too much, and I'd much rather try to get a Scald burn on Scizor. As for Chansey's EV spread, yes your suggestion gives more special bulk but Chansey really doesn't need anymore... practically no special attacks ever kill it so might as well just invest in HP to max out it's physical bulk. And as for Blastoise... I don't know it just doesn't seem to have much use outside of spinning.

Thanks for all of your suggestions though and I am glad that you found my team interesting.

 

[fleurdyleurse]

You could replace Psychic with Toxic on Politoed.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

I think he has enough Toxic users.

 

[GeneralMLD]

If you can get around that stall teams are generally shameful to use by causing drawn out and frustrating matches, then it is a good team :)