Inception (spoilers)

[MrIndigo]

The van falling in the 1st level either caused the absence of gravity in the 2nd level or it didn't. I think you're saying that it didn't but my interpretation is that it did. Otherwise it's difficult explaining why gravity exists in the 1st and 3rd levels but not the 2nd, and I don't think the deterioration theory explains satisfactorily this skip in gravity.

I'll try to clarify my position:
1. The 2nd dream level is hosted by Arthur, designed by Ariadne and populated by Fischer's projections.
2. Arthur's body in the 1st level is experiencing a weightlessness because he is seated inside the falling van.
3. This experience of weightless does exist in real life, as seen by astronauts who train for zero gravity by floating inside jet planes which have been put into a temporary nosedive.
4. This weightlessness sensation translates to a lack of gravity inside the 2nd level.
5. The lack of gravity does not occur inside the 3rd level because this level is hosted by the sleeping Eames in the 2nd level.
6. Though Eames is sleeping in a zero gravity situation he is lying completely still, the sensation he experience is no different from him lying on a solid bed.
7. Because a motionless Eames doesn't actually experience weightlessness as opposed to the falling Arthur, gravity still exists in the 3rd level.

My point was that Arthur was asleep in the van; the weightlessness still affected his dream. The weightlessness in Arthur's dream still affected Eames while he was asleep, so it should have affected his dream and the weightlessness should have been there under that theory.

The dream-within-a-dream must have some kind of automatic suppresser to break the chain.

 

[UncleSam]

I saw this movie on it's opening night, but it wasn't until today that I realized Mr. Cobb died at the end.

Alright, near the end, when everyone wakes up in the van filling with water, they are upset because Mr. Cobb and Saito don't wake up. Now, he was staying in Limbo to find Saito, but wasn't the entire point that, should he miss the various series of Kicks, he would believe he was in Limbo forever? The thing the movie does to confuse us is similar to Pulp Fiction: it shows us events out of order. The entire ending sequence, where he finds Saito and wakes up in the airport, actually happens BEFORE they all wake up on the van; the point was, in the seconds they had in the van, Mr. Cobb had hours (days? years?) in limbo to find Saito and bring him back. However, they are all upset in the van because, at that point Mr. Cobb is effectively "dead", having spent so much time in limbo by that point that his brain is fried. That is also why they don't bother giving him oxygen: it doesn't matter if he dies in the first level of dream sequence, because he is already dead anyway.

Once you figure out the order of events, the whole thing becomes much, much clearer. Also, to everyone saying his seeing his children's faces proved he was in the real world: he could have seen his children's faces in limbo easily, indeed, that was the attraction of it to him. The fact he refused to look at them simply symbolized his obstinence and desire to return to the real world were greater than his desire to live with his family in Limbo. The fact that he sees his family at the very end simply proves that he has given up, and is no longer willing to fight to go back to the real world.

 

[Carl]

I read this somewhere else but apparently Cobb has a wedding ring whenever he is in a dream and doesn't have one on in the real world. In the end scene, Cobb is not wearing a wedding ring. Not sure if this proves anything for one direction or the other because some good arguments have been presented above that have made me rethink my stance but food for thought none the less.

 

[Layell]

I'm quite sure the effect of the car falling was felt from the third level. In the second it results in no gravity, and the third is represented by the avalanche, which itself wasn't very major which was why nothing seemed to happen in limbo.

I think it's just the dream levels interpreting the interruptions differently.

 

[Kurai]

One problem with the film in general is that you had to be somewhat active, and you definitely had to know what was going on at certain parts to grasp any part of the movie in general. If you are like some people and love texting durings movies and being a generic idiot, this movie is not for you, whatsoever. It has explosions, sure, but the main point of the movie was based around a new concept, and was fairly hard to grasp unless you knew what the hell happened.

Overall, there is nothing I can say bad about the movie. Err... I'm sure this was said before (but most likely also bashed before), but I put this movie way above The Dark Knight. I'm extremely picky when it comes to movies, but this definitely caught my eye. A must-see for most everyone.

To make note of the ending, it was almost absolutely real life. Everytime he was in a dream, he never actually saw his children's faces. And as such, the ending kind of gave it away that he saw them, and thus it couldn't be a dream.

But still, the point stands that the top did not stop spinning, so if it kept spinning, here's something to throw out at you. The entire movie could have taken place inside of a dream. Whose dream, we don't know, really. Ugh, the ending is really the most confusing part about the damn movie.

Also, two things. I forgot what they were called (the spinning top, and those things), but what purpose did the die and the chess piece serve? They never showed how they acted differently between real life and the dream worlds.

 

[sanjay120]

Also, two things. I forgot what they were called (the spinning top, and those things), but what purpose did the die and the chess piece serve? They never showed how they acted differently between real life and the dream worlds.

They're called totems, and those two didn't act differently, but the die was loaded and the chess piece had something carved in the bottom. They felt a specific way that only the person that holds them knows about. The architect doesn't know how they feel, so they couldn't have recreated them.

I think he was definitely dreaming at the end. He spins the top and it starts toppling, so he obviously believes it's reality, and because of this he lets himself look at the faces of his children. But then it shows the top spinning upright, recovering from the fall it started going into when he spun it, so it's a dream, it's just that he doesn't know it on a conscious level, and his subconscious is making the top fall down to trick him, because that's what he wants to see.

 

[Kurai]

Totems, there we go. I could swear that they were supposed to act differently, but maybe I didn't pay attention enough or my memory is getting the best of me.

If you think that you are in the real world, does that affect how your totem works? If so, then it still could go either way, but there is more support that he was still at a dream in the end. I thought the entire purpose of a totem was to distinguish between the real world and a dream, and as such, your thoughts as to where you are could not affect them. :/

 

[Llama]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1939234

A good laugh for whoever saw this movie.

 

[tennisace]

Just saw it with my girlfriend. That was one hell of a movie. As for my thoughts on the ending:

Hide

X-act mentioned that at the end, Cobb wakes up on the plane. However, if you remember back to the first meeting with Ariadne, Cobb asks her how she got there. She struggles to remember, and he says that "you always enter into a dream in the middle somewhere". The end cuts from all of the kicks to him on the plane, with no explanation of how he got from Limbo through to the plane. Thus, the plane is a dream, presumably still in Limbo where he can control his subconscious. He saw what he wanted to see, his children's faces.

 

[Fatecrashers]

I have recently discovered that apparently Cobb's kids are wearing different clothes in the ending than all the other visions of them that Cobb has seen, which seems to reinforce the theory that Cobb is back in reality. Also others have noticed that in reality Cobb doesn't wear a wedding ring while in the dreams he does, he does not wear a wedding ring in the final scene. It's most likely that Nolan mixes all these clues together to keep the ending ambiguous.

 

[Quagsires]

It seems like the evidence does point to the ending being real, but it was a very nice touch to have the viewer be left hanging at the end.

 

[TubaKing]

I thought Inception was really good.
It feels to me like he was in limbo the whole time and that that the whole thing was just a fantasy of escape,as well as a means of coping with his wife's death. I just saw the movie about ten minutes ago, though, so I might change my mind about it.
It could be reality, but unless someone involved in the film proclaims otherwise, it could also have been limbo the whole time.

 

[MrIndigo]

Except the "It was all a dream" would dull the overall impact of the movie, so I don't think Nolan would do that.

 

[MrIndigo]

 

[Jack Jack]

the best part of this movie for me was that i knew absolutely nothing about it going in. and that is where it really hit home... the plot. It is really hard to think of a movie that has a better premise / plot than this film. Its limits are endless and it is so utterly captivating.

I was seriously on the edge of my seat the entire second half of the movie, after spending the better part of the first half just trying to piece together what the fuck was going on.

The action was great... which both makes me happy and disappoints me. The one problem I had with this movie was that the intellectual side was more "can you actually follow whats going on" rather than "this is a psychological fucking thriller and can you figure it out / how do you interpret it".

By that I mean the movie put no real expectations in your head and everything just kind of unfolded. I am not going to say it was predictable as there were plot twists, but every twist just had me saying "oh thats cool" rather than "wow that's fucked" which is what I want to say in a "psychological" type movie.

looking back and trying to reflect on it, it is hard to. the movie doesn't really pose any real life questions we can take away as the only questions that can be asked must be worked within the framework of the movie (aka the rules). That is pretty much the only reason I can't walk away and say "this is one of the greatest movies ever".

So yeah if you want to be taken on a roller coaster ride filled with suspense, great action, great scores, brain stimulation in trying to actually follow what is going on and possibly the most intruiging plot I have ever heard of in a movie, then you will absolutely love this film, and probably give it a 10/10.

The important thing to note is to not expect some sort of life altering film that will make you think, as like I said it cannot possibly change the way you see the world or put a new perspective on anything, and for that reason it is hard to call it one of the greatest films ever.

I agree with everything here. It's a great movie, but not the kind of movie that changes how you see the world like the first Matrix was.

However... Best. Story. Ever.

Ok so i just saw the movie with my girlfriend and we kinda had an argument over the end scene.

Did the top fall down or not? I thought it kept spinning meaning he was in a dream, while my girlfriend said it didn't show it falling or not falling so it would lead to a squeal. What do you think?

I think that the ending as it was was the only proper way to end that movie. That way, everyone can make their own ending, is it real, is it a dream? Choose whatever makes the most interesting story for you.

I don't know why anyone would find this difficult to follow but there were people talking behind my gf and I as we left about their head hurting and being confused. I thought it was pretty straight forward. I almost felt it was too long just because of how much they had to explain.

There was a lot of groaning at the end of the film in my theater because it cut out with the top still spinning but I think it's fairly obvious that it was "real life." The top appeared to wobble a bit before the movie ended and we actually saw the faces of his children. In all the dreams, we only saw the backside of the boy and girl.

Yeah, the plot is very straightforward. I don't see who could get lost on this, assuming of course, you paid attention, which was not difficult as it was a very good story.
In my theatre, when the black screen happened at the end... we laugh our asses off. Everybody was like : « Of course it ends like that, lol »

My point was that Arthur was asleep in the van; the weightlessness still affected his dream. The weightlessness in Arthur's dream still affected Eames while he was asleep, so it should have affected his dream and the weightlessness should have been there under that theory.

The dream-within-a-dream must have some kind of automatic suppresser to break the chain.

The suppression of gravity in Arthur's dream only affected the asleep eames punctually : at the very instant that gravity went off. The rest of the time, it was as if he was asleep on solid bed. As for arthur, well, his body was still upside down in the van, so that's why gravity did not revert to normal.

As for the limbo thing : they could not let saito die before they completed the mission. Otherwise, he would have died of old age in limbo before the sedative wore off. So he would have come back to reality, but still unable to wake up, essentially in a coma. Then the sedative wears off, but he still do not wake up because he's still in a coma.

Now, for the ending. Cobb has been using Mal's totem all movie long. I'm suspecting that Mal was right all along, and that Cobb is in Mal's dream. That's why she keep coming after him. Why she wants him to wake up. As Cobb is using Mal's totem, he has no way to find out that he's not in Mal's dream. Also, a huge part of the significance of the ending is to show that Cobb, who adamantly refused to see his children's face in his dreams, stop caring and does not watch his totem fall.

On of the thing I liked most about this movie is that they did not input a ridiculous and out of place romantic sub-plot between Ariadne and someone else in the cast ( especially Cobb, as he's played by Di Caprio ). I'll say it again, what I liked the most in that movie was that it was the best and the freshest story I've heard in a long time.

 

[MrIndigo]

The suppression of gravity in Arthur's dream only affected the asleep eames punctually : at the very instant that gravity went off. The rest of the time, it was as if he was asleep on solid bed. As for arthur, well, his body was still upside down in the van, so that's why gravity did not revert to normal.

That still doesn't work. If you take at the first premise that weightlessness in Level X creates 0 gravity (i.e. weightlessness) in Level X+1 (e.g. the 0G in the van creates 0G in the hotel), then EVERY level would have 0G. You just substitute 1 for X, and show that Level 2 has no gravity, then substitute 2 for X and Level 3 will have no gravity etc.

There has to be some mechanism of unexplained breaking between the consecutive level of the dream. My friend posited that the snow dream actually DID have reduced gravity, it's just that the time dilation effect was so great that far down that it wasn't distinctly noticable. My theory is simply that Nolan made a minor slip up with his understanding (or lack thereof) of General Relativity.

Now, for the ending. Cobb has been using Mal's totem all movie long. I'm suspecting that Mal was right all along, and that Cobb is in Mal's dream. That's why she keep coming after him. Why she wants him to wake up. As Cobb is using Mal's totem, he has no way to find out that he's not in Mal's dream. Also, a huge part of the significance of the ending is to show that Cobb, who adamantly refused to see his children's face in his dreams, stop caring and does not watch his totem fall.

I don't like this theory; we've seen that despite someone being very deep, you can kick them out. If Mal had actually woken up after she jumped off the building, she could have kicked Cobb out and it wouldn't have been a problem. he fact that she didn't suggests she's not in the upper level, and hence it's a real world experience.

Furthermore, the idea that it's all Mal's dream sort of invalidates the point Nolan spent a lot of time on, that the seed of the idea Cobb planted grew and dominated her personality. It wouldn't make a lot of directing sense to spend a great deal of time on something like that only to render it completely wrong.

On of the thing I liked most about this movie is that they did not input a ridiculous and out of place romantic sub-plot between Ariadne and someone else in the cast ( especially Cobb, as he's played by Di Caprio ). I'll say it again, what I liked the most in that movie was that it was the best and the freshest story I've heard in a long time.

Yes, I loved that Nolan didn't crowbar in a stupid love story angle. It's the first time in years that I've seen a movie that actually has respect for female members of the audience (I remember reading that the reason every movie has to have a love story is back in the 20s-30s, it was believed women only cared about homemaking and finding a man, and so they wouldn't be able to relate to any movie that didn't involve a man and a woman starting out friends and becoming lovers.)

The lowest point in the movie, I feel, was when Arthur threw the guy over the paradox stairs, and said "Paradox" with noone around to hear it. It breaks one of the fundamental laws of showmanship; Really Cool Things Stop Being Cool When You Stop Doing It To Point Out How Cool It Is. The visual effects were exactly the same as the foreshadowing in the earlier part, so it was just unnecessary and was a real breach of suspension of disbelief for me.

 

[vonFiedler]

OK guys, thread bump, but I gotta give my thoughts on the open ending, and that's that there really isn't one. Yeah, the top spins, wobbles, crash to black, audience gasps. Great convention. Then you go into the theater lobby, take a piss, and say "Hey, wait a minute..."

But first, I have to address this top. Yes, it does wobble. But if Cobb is dreaming that it's reality, why would the top not fall? It's only supposed to stay spinning in dreams. The totem determines whether or not others are forging your dream, not whether or not you are dreaming. Again, the spinning top is still a good convention, but it only determines anything if it keeps spinning. Not if it falls.

However, this is not the smoking gun, (ok I checked and tennisace already said this, but it bears repeating). How did Cobb get to the airplane? Saito puts his hand on the gun, but you don't see it get fired. And then it hits you. You always start in the middle of a dream. Yeah, sends chills down your spine doesn't it?

So with that in mind, it has to be a dream right? No. It's not a dream, and there's no possibility of it being a dream. Christopher Nolan as a director has never wanted his audience to interpret anything. He has always spelled out all the subtext for us, he's had characters psycho-analyze each other, he's held our hands through some of the most confusing movies of the last decade because he doesn't trust us to figure things out ourselves. Case in point, Arthur saying "Paradox" at the stairway scene. Every plot point is nailed down perfectly, and Nolan knows exactly whether or not Cobb is dreaming at the end of the movie. As gripping as it was to look at that top and think "fall down, for fucks sake fall down", Nolan would not betray the "true ending" even for open endedness sake.

Nolan has taken dreams, something so surreal that the worst writers can get away with inconsistencies, and he's turned them into things of rules and logic and under those roles Cobb being in a dream at the end just poses too many problems. There aren't unanswered questions if Cobb is in reality, because things went according to plan. If he's dreaming, why is he dreaming? Didn't he resolve not do to that? How is he still dreaming? If he's still dreaming, no one on the plane has woken up. The story isn't even over. Why can he see his kids faces when he couldn't before? What happens when he comes back inside and finds the top spinning? There's simply too many plot holes in the dream route, and Nolan is too good a director to not have accounted for that unless he didn't want to. Nolan wanted to shock the audience one last time before the credits, but he wants people to know that it's still one way and not the other. Nolan is brilliant, but needy.

 

[Carl]

great analysis

 

[Accipender]

OK guys, thread bump, but I gotta give my thoughts on the open ending, and that's that there really isn't one. Yeah, the top spins, wobbles, crash to black, audience gasps. Great convention. Then you go into the theater lobby, take a piss, and say "Hey, wait a minute..."

But first, I have to address this top. Yes, it does wobble. But if Cobb is dreaming that it's reality, why would the top not fall? It's only supposed to stay spinning in dreams. The totem determines whether or not others are forging your dream, not whether or not you are dreaming. Again, the spinning top is still a good convention, but it only determines anything if it keeps spinning. Not if it falls.

However, this is not the smoking gun, (ok I checked and tennisace already said this, but it bears repeating). How did Cobb get to the airplane? Saito puts his hand on the gun, but you don't see it get fired. And then it hits you. You always start in the middle of a dream. Yeah, sends chills down your spine doesn't it?

So with that in mind, it has to be a dream right? No. It's not a dream, and there's no possibility of it being a dream. Christopher Nolan as a director has never wanted his audience to interpret anything. He has always spelled out all the subtext for us, he's had characters psycho-analyze each other, he's held our hands through some of the most confusing movies of the last decade because he doesn't trust us to figure things out ourselves. Case in point, Arthur saying "Paradox" at the stairway scene. Every plot point is nailed down perfectly, and Nolan knows exactly whether or not Cobb is dreaming at the end of the movie. As gripping as it was to look at that top and think "fall down, for fucks sake fall down", Nolan would not betray the "true ending" even for open endedness sake.

Nolan has taken dreams, something so surreal that the worst writers can get away with inconsistencies, and he's turned them into things of rules and logic and under those roles Cobb being in a dream at the end just poses too many problems. There aren't unanswered questions if Cobb is in reality, because things went according to plan. If he's dreaming, why is he dreaming? Didn't he resolve not do to that? How is he still dreaming? If he's still dreaming, no one on the plane has woken up. The story isn't even over. Why can he see his kids faces when he couldn't before? What happens when he comes back inside and finds the top spinning? There's simply too many plot holes in the dream route, and Nolan is too good a director to not have accounted for that unless he didn't want to. Nolan wanted to shock the audience one last time before the credits, but he wants people to know that it's still one way and not the other. Nolan is brilliant, but needy.

Here's one fact that made me uncertain, and kinda clued me into something being not totally right:
What the fuck was his dad doing there? I thought that he was in Paris teaching? Why would he a.) know exactly when and where he's flying into when he has not made any obvious contact other than getting Ariadne and b.) be there? I mean, he /should/ be teaching, no?

As to why he could see the children's faces, I think that that was an ambiguous point in the film; he seems (to me) that he is resisting the temptation to see false portrayals. He could do it anytime, but he's saving it for the real deal. I think that this was made obvious when he shielded his eyes from seeing their faces when Mal (sp?) called them.

As far as to how is he still dreaming? He only escaped one layer (limbo); perhaps he's still in a dreamworld.

As far as your point about starting in the middle of a dream, I really don't get it, I suppose. He clearly wakes up and is able to trace his path to his house. He knows precisely how he got there. The issue is that it seems to create a paradox with the rest of my conclusion @_@

It is really hard to think of a movie that has a better premise / plot than this film.

Premise, I'll agree with; as far as plot, I thought that the level of plot intricacy was comparable to that of The Prestige.

 

[Glen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVkQ0C4qDvM

worth watching because it is pretty sweet!!!! i love little things like this

 

[GoAcapulco]

Inception movie Soundtracks

LOL


Probably the best role of Leonardo DiCaprio... I watched in the cinema, the movie "Inception" I really liked, and even more I liked the soundtrack of the movie by composer Hans Zimmer. Songs "Old Souls" and "Mombasa" just cool.http://voobit.com/vjw7xq7leoxl.html

 

[Insularity]

The way I see it, there are 3 endings-

1. The top stops spinning, and DeCaprio is alive and well, in reality. Not much to say

2. The top keeps spinning, and DeCaprio is stuck in limbo indefintely. His children's faces are irreleant. I consider this the most likely option.

3. Mol was right the whole time. "Reality" was a dream, and the top was irrelevant, and death was the only escape from it. This is the second most likely thing, IMO.

There's also another option I've heard, a subset of the first- Cobb's father is an evil genius. He made
DeCaprio perform inception on himself, to forget his dead wife, employing Ariadne as an arcitect.

 

[MrIndigo]

The way I see it, there are 3 endings-

1. The top stops spinning, and DeCaprio is alive and well, in reality. Not much to say

2. The top keeps spinning, and DeCaprio is stuck in limbo indefintely. His children's faces are irreleant. I consider this the most likely option.

3. Mol was right the whole time. "Reality" was a dream, and the top was irrelevant, and death was the only escape from it. This is the second most likely thing, IMO.

There's also another option I've heard, a subset of the first- Cobb's father is an evil genius. He made
DeCaprio perform inception on himself, to forget his dead wife, employing Ariadne as an arcitect.

The third one doesn't work, because if Mol was not killed in the fall then she would be able to kick Cobb out of the dream. It follows that because she didn't, that part of the movie at least was the real world. Furthermore, if that part was a dream then the entire message Nolan was pushing about Inception (be careful with ideas it can change a person from their very core and then idea can become much bigger than you expected) would be gone.

The last part is possible, but implausible. There's no support for it anywhere else in the film. I mean, you could also say that the whole thing was actually a computer program like the Matrix. It would be possible, but there's no reason for it to actually be a meaningful explanation.

 

[Charmed]

I'm really surprised that many of you are much too focused on the ending, on whether it's a dream or a reality. (But, really, I guess this does tie in to what I have to say or add. Somebody else did mention this.)

The death of his wife.

You have somebody that loves you. They love you back. Two people in complete and true love. Whether or not the other committed suicide by 'inception,' (or rather, simply died) the death of a loved one burdens the other heavily so. No matter how 'logical' or 'illogical', etc, it is what Cobb feels and believes.

To him, that is the only thing that matters. Cobb simply cannot get over it but what is not so simple is that he can't join her. Wouldn't he just be selfish if he ever took his own life and left their children behind? Wouldn't it make perfect sense if he would just get over it, care for their children, and continue his life happy?

 

[ultimifier]

GRAVITY AND ZERO GRAVITY EXPLANATION.

When the van falls they are accelerating downwards. This van is falling at the acceleration due to gravity.

Now in dream one, this compounds with gravity, and since they are exactly OPPOSITE there is no total accleration in stage 1, this ZERO GRAVITY.

Since there is no extra acceleration in stage 1, there is no additional effect on stage 2, this stage 2 has normal gravity.

explained.