Pokémon Greninja

[Hclegend]

I might as well put my "set" down.... its not really unique mind, I just saw people use it online :P
Greninja @ Expert Belt
Protean
Timid
252 Sp Att/252 Speed (I forgot what I did with the last 4 EVs)
-Hydro Cannon
-Dark Pulse
-Grass Knot
-Ice Beam


I've been using him on Battle Masion, and it's great with Mega Khan (I know shes banned!) and Hydreigon. It's gotten me decently far, planning to use him online too ;)

 

[haunter]

I believe it's been mentioned already, somewhere in this thread, that moves like hydro cannon and hyper beam should never be used competitively. Giving your opponent a free turn to set up whatever they want is a suicide in most cases. A skilled player will use that turn to freely set up a Lucario or a DD Nite and proceed to sweep your team from that point. Please don't bring up hyper beam/hydro cannon again in this forum.

 

[Megoodraggon]

It is useful on Specs Amaura in LC because it can OHKO 95% of the metagame.

Greninja can't OHKO 95% of the metagame.



That set is really, really gimmicky. Basically to use Acrobatics you kinda have to be pretty much dead, and your Hydro Pump hits a lot less than it used to. I would remove the Sash, put Life Orb, and U-Turn>Acrobatics at least.

The set was actually designed for a MonoDark team that struggled with Fighting priority. Shadow Sneak + Acrobatics is solely to deal with Conk and Breloom, and it can deal with Mega Luke to an extent (HP + SS kills). I just c/p it whole onto my other team when I wanted to see how it would fare. You're probably right that U-Turn would be better, and Shroomisaur is almost definitely right that a dedicated physical or special set would be better in normal play when Fighting priority isn't a win condition for every one of your opponents. Thanks for the input guys. :)

 

[SnoopysWorld]

Yes, mixed Greninja has been suggested countless times, and it's not very noteworthy. You're giving up 2 moveslots just to deal with 2 pokemon - Shadow Sneak is only useful against Breloom/Conk,

With how common Knock Off Assault Vest Conkeldurr is now in the meta game, I don't think Shadow Sneak is all that viable anymore...

That being said, I'm wanting to change the set on my HP Fire Greninja. I was originally running this:
Greninja @ Life Orb
Protean
Hasty
88 Atk/168 Sp Atk/252 Speed
~Surf
~Shadow Sneak
~Extrasensory
~HP Fire

Are there any other decent physical moves I can run on this Greninja as a filler for Shadow Sneak? I already have two other Greninja, one with Ice Beam, Scald, U-Turn, and Dark Pulse, while the other has Dark Pulse, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Surf... Maybe U-Turn?

 

[Punchshroom]

When choosing your Water move of choice, I find it difficult to opt for Surf over Hydro Pump's power or Scald's burn chance. Surf is like only 10 BP stronger than Scald, but has no secondary effect of inducing more damage to make up for it while possibly crippling the opponent.

 

[Schpoonman]

With how common Knock Off Assault Vest Conkeldurr is now in the meta game, I don't think Shadow Sneak is all that viable anymore...

That being said, I'm wanting to change the set on my HP Fire Greninja. I was originally running this:
Greninja @ Life Orb
Protean
Hasty
88 Atk/168 Sp Atk/252 Speed
~Surf
~Shadow Sneak
~Extrasensory
~HP Fire

Are there any other decent physical moves I can run on this Greninja as a filler for Shadow Sneak? I already have two other Greninja, one with Ice Beam, Scald, U-Turn, and Dark Pulse, while the other has Dark Pulse, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Surf... Maybe U-Turn?

You really shouldn't be running Shadow Sneak in the first place. Even so, those EVs are specifically attuned for U-turn Greninja. So, run U-turn.

 

[Omgwyatt]

why would you use Acrobatics over Aerial Ace anyways? regardless if the set is good or not, Ace is just a strict upgrade no? I don't think the off-chance you get Knock Off'd (likely wouldn't use it against greninja anyways) is remotely worth it.

 

[Sleepwalkah]

Why not going fully physical?

Greninja @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Protean
Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
- Water Shuriken (priority!) OR Quick Attack (no one expects that)
- U-Turn
- Spikes (suprises electro types! + sets up a hazard)
- Acrobatics (surprises ground and fighting types!)

The special one with Ice Beam, Scald, Dark Pulse, and whatever special att. is too well known and can be played around easily, so I'd say it becomes less viable with every passing day.
The mixed one is gimmicky but way too weak in dealing damage.

 

[Hibiki]

>Search Results for Query: physical greninja

Showing results 1 to 20 of 122.
come on guys its garbage

 

[Hclegend]

>Search Results for Query: physical greninja

Showing results 1 to 20 of 122.
come on guys its garbage

To be fair, it's Physical Movepool is crap, but a mixed set could work maybe?

 

[Tressed]

To be fair, it's Physical Movepool is crap, but a mixed set could work maybe?

Nothing in Greninja's physical movepool is worth splitting EVs for, its physical moves do nothing that its special movepool couldn't do. The only physical move worth running is U-Turn, because U-Turn.

If you want to run an odd set, it actually has to be worth running over other things. Surprise factor doesn't count when 95% of the time you're completely inferior to the regular set.

 

[A wild Spycrab appeared]

When choosing your Water move of choice, I find it difficult to opt for Surf over Hydro Pump's power or Scald's burn chance. Surf is like only 10 BP stronger than Scald, but has no secondary effect of inducing more damage to make up for it while possibly crippling the opponent.

It depends on what your team needs to cover, because Hydro pump gives you a lot of OHKO's and 2HKO's scald and surf can't give you. If you just need it to take out things like talonflame, just go with scald. Use the damage calculator to see what threats for your team might make you need the extra damage hydro pump gives.

 

[Shangzord]

I've breed a shiny Greninja with 31/31/31/31/31/20 IVs. What do you guys think about it? Is it usable even with this lack in Speed? :/

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

I've breed a shiny Greninja with 31/31/31/31/31/20 IVs. What do you guys think about it? Is it usable even with this lack in Speed? :/

No, unfortunately speed is his key feature. But on e up side, it can be good breeding material.

 

[Shangzord]

No, unfortunately speed is his key feature. But on e up side, it can be good breeding material.

Was so happy about getting Protean u-u

 

[Kadabrium]

Was so happy about getting Protean u-u

It still outspeeds base 115s, so.
As long as you can remember what this spread can outspeed and what not, it could still be usable. Tlol
Alakazam and Tornadus T is pretty much the only OU relevant pokemon youl miss out.

 

[Jaroda]

It still outspeeds base 115s, so.
As long as you can remember what this spread can outspeed and what not, it could still be usable. Tlol
Alakazam and Tornadus T is pretty much the only OU relevant pokemon youl miss out.

and other Greninja

 

[Prof_Clayton]

Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Shadow Sneak
- U-turn
- Waterfall

Is what I'm currently running for physical based. Is there anything I should replace SS with though? With Assault Vest Conk its kinda pointless to me now.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Shadow Sneak
- U-turn
- Waterfall

Is what I'm currently running for physical based. Is there anything I should replace SS with though? With Assault Vest Conk its kinda pointless to me now.

Yeah, hydro pump, and then proceed to change waterfall to ice beam and acrobatics to dark pulse be auss physical greninja is outclassed by everything, pretty much.

 

[Prof_Clayton]

Yeah, hydro pump, and then proceed to change waterfall to ice beam and acrobatics to dark pulse be auss physical greninja is outclassed by everything, pretty much.

So special is really that much better? Thanks for the moveset, I guess I'll try it out.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Probably the most annoying thing to me about Greninja right now is Extrasensory. So many teams think just by throwing Venusaur on their teams they've got the water-types covered, but Extrasense Greninja (and Psychic Starmie) both have a good chance to one-shot Venu if they have LO, especially since more and more are physical defensive to handle Mega Luke.


Ice Beam / Extrasensory / Hydro Pump / U-Turn

though I personally would rather use Dark Pulse over U-Turn on a LO version-- losing 10% health to hit pathetically weak with U-Turn (most of the time) is really annoying.

 

[Shangzord]

It still outspeeds base 115s, so.
As long as you can remember what this spread can outspeed and what not, it could still be usable. Tlol
Alakazam and Tornadus T is pretty much the only OU relevant pokemon youl miss out.

Yeah, I was thinking about that... it can't outspeed Sceptile, Alakazam, etc. but if I keep that in mind, I can use him... at least until I breed a new one.

 

[Avonaisa]

I run a physical Greninja.
Jolly
Item: Razor Fang
EV: 252atk/252spe/6hp
Moves:
Water Shuriken
Acrobatics
Fling
U-turn

This set lets me outspeed most other Greninja that sometimes run Modest for their Special set.
I know Greninja has a slightly better SpA stat, but I feel that it is way more versatile with a better move pool on the physical side.

Water Shuriken may seem odd but it is an excellent priority move which when combined with razor fang nets an 11% chance, give or take, to flinch. That's approximately 55%+ if I hit all 5 times. Also priority is always worth having IMO.

Acrobatics keeps those would be grass or fighting type switch ins in check, and combined with fling will allow it to deal double damage.
Fling combined with its speed acts almost like a fake out which is good for doubles, except you can save it for when you need it.
U turn is obvious as it will allow Greninja to switch out on anything it cannot beat.

 

[TeraVolt]

I run a physical Greninja.
Jolly
Item: Razor Fang
EV: 252atk/252spe/6hp
Moves:
Water Shuriken
Acrobatics
Fling
U-turn

This set lets me outspeed most other Greninja that sometimes run Modest for their Special set.
I know Greninja has a slightly better SpA stat, but I feel that it is way more versatile with a better move pool on the physical side.

Water Shuriken may seem odd but it is an excellent priority move which when combined with razor fang nets an 11% chance, give or take, to flinch. That's approximately 55%+ if I hit all 5 times. Also priority is always worth having IMO.

Acrobatics keeps those would be grass or fighting type switch ins in check, and combined with fling will allow it to deal double damage.
Fling combined with its speed acts almost like a fake out which is good for doubles, except you can save it for when you need it.
U turn is obvious as it will allow Greninja to switch out on anything it cannot beat.

Greninja almost never run Modest. The only way this will outspeed other Greninja is when/if they are running 30 Spe IVs for HP Fire or you win the speed tie. While acrobatics does hit Grass/Fighting types, most usually take more damage from LO'd Extrasensory/Ice Beam anyway (with the exception of AV Conk but even then, just barely). Sacrificing a moveslot for a move that is Fake out but even more 'one time use' is not worth it. Greninja needs all the reliable strength he can muster and the one thing on this set that consistently has over 60 power is U-turn. Can we stop doing physical Greninja? Greninja's offenses aren't bad, but he isn't so strong that he can afford to sacrifice coverage, reliability and Life Orb/Expert Belt's 30% damage boost for the sake of... I dunno... being physical?

Priority is not worth running on Greninja. He's so fast that he usually doesn't need it and when he actually does need it, literally everything he could potentially hit with any of his priority attacks will murder him regardless, so you might as well have just switched out. Seriously, Greninja doesn't even OHKO Talonflame with 5-hit Water Shuriken 100% of the time (not un-LO'd anyway)

252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 270-330 (90.6 - 110.7%) -- approx. 75% chance to OHKO (NOT 100% OHKO WITH 5 HITS??)
There are reasons people tend not to use physical Greninja.

Stick to special variants. Or use U Turn if you must but otherwise, as it has oft been said; special is the way to go.

 

[LuvdiscSushi]

This is possibly the best starter Pokemon in the game, up there with Blaziken. He's a sweeper and a utility all in one, and Protean allows him to beat whatever he may need to.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 120 Atk / 136 SpA / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Fairy / Ice Beam
- Power-Up Punch
- Water Shuriken

The goal with this set is to take full advantage of Protean and forgo some of the utility moves like U-turn, Rapid Spin and Spikes. Bring him in, use a move like Hidden Power Fairy to change your type into something that would easily beat a potential switch in, and then play accordingly. Ice and Fairy type are weak to Steel, so opponents may try to ruin your day with Bullet Punch. That's where Water Shuriken comes in, as it can go first and promptly change you back to a Water type so you gain Steel resistance. It also isn't bad as a general priority attack that can finished off weakened opponents. Power-Up Punch would be best if Ferrothorn is giving you issues, as Greninja can become a Fighting type, deal damage, and gain an attack boost all in one go. Power-Up Punch also constantly increases the threat of Water Shuriken as you stack boosts, giving you a better chance at a sweep if your opponent cannot answer it in time. Switching between Water and Fairy type can cause some headaches, as the two types are very synergistic. I can't really say for sure if this is the right combination of moves just yet as I have not had the chance to test Greninja, but the idea is there and I think something similar could be a serious challenge to overcome.

All in all, this is an awesome Pokemon who I'd be surprised to see in any tier lower than OU.

This is a nice theory but there are a couple of issues here. Firstly, there is no hp fairy due to Game Freak being lazy and not changing their hp calculating system :/. Second, this relies on the notion that switching type a lot will stop your opponent KOing Greninja, which due to it's lacklustre defenses is somewhat ambitious. Thirdly, over-reliance on ice beam, the only strong 100% accurate move here, can be problematic. Greninja retains it's altered type when it switches out, which it must do against users of priority. It therefore has a tendency to become weak to stealth rocks, combined with life orb recoil, it really struggles to last long.
Finally, the best starter has always and will always be the mighty pikachu