Pokémon Greninja

[Schpoonman]

This is not the place to talk about breeding. Take it to SQSA or any one of the subforums for that.

And Spikes. Guy I follow on Youtube, goes by the name of Rykard, makes a lot of interesting sets.

Greninja @ Leftovers
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
Bold Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Shadow Sneak
- Scald/Hidden Power Steel

Pretty much the whole point of this one is set up as many hazards as possible and switch type to predicted moves as possible.

Greninja has atrocious defenses and even resisted hits take a toll on him. Use Greninja's excellent offensive pressure to keep hazards on the field, not this garbage. Whoever you follow on YouTube obviously never playtested this set.

 

[Chris Desmond]

What kind of set could be an exclusive Special Attacker-aimed Greninja?

 

[Schpoonman]

Most of the sets being post are just that. If you don't want U-turn, move your Attack EVs into Special Attack with 4 in HP and drop U-turn for pretty much any move. The set I've been using since day one is Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Grass Knot/Hidden Power Fire.

 

[Missino]

Out of curiosity (and I apologize if this doesn't belong here or has already been answered), what would happen if Greninja were to be poisoned, then become a poison type?

 

[bryndir]

I haven't personally seen any sets that run Greninja with Extrasensory, which is what I roll with. It may only hit poison and fighting super effectively, but it will wreck Mega Venusaur, Conkeldurr, and let you kill Gengar without creating a weakness to priority fighting attacks. I have thrown a few people off balance with it myself - thoughts on viability?

 

[thedeafelectrician]

Is there a reason why people seem to be so obsessed with running toxic spikes on greninja? Am I just missing something?

Since there's no bank and such, there simply aren't a lot of hazard setters right now. Especially t-spikes, I can't think of anything besides Tentacruel in OU that uses the move.

It works because greninja forces a lot of switches, trying to use it to take resisted hits is the wrong way to go about it with it's paper defense. On the other hand, once they see t-spikes, an opponent usually isn't letting you get a second shot at it.

It's not a great or terrible idea, definitely somewhere in between. T-spikes in general can be total dead weight against some teams, and greninja has a lot of other things it can do with that moveslot. As with so many things in this game, it just really depends on what your team wants to do.

 

[Schpoonman]

I haven't personally seen any sets that run Greninja with Extrasensory, which is what I roll with. It may only hit poison and fighting super effectively, but it will wreck Mega Venusaur, Conkeldurr, and let you kill Gengar without creating a weakness to priority fighting attacks. I have thrown a few people off balance with it myself - thoughts on viability?

Protean makes literally almost any attack a good choice (I refuse to condone shit like random Shadow Sneak on an otherwise special attacking set because "It blocks Mach Punch!"). If the move would have been competitively viable without Protean, it's now way better, and even some moves that might not otherwise be useful can now work. Run whatever makes most sense for your team, coverage-wise. Personally, I don't need Extrasensory for Mega Venusaur because I have several Pokemon that cleanly 2HKO Venusaur so it never has a chance to be a problem.

Also, just a heads-up, you don't NEED Dark Pulse for Gengar, Life Orb Hydro Pump is a clean OHKO after Rocks, though if he Mega Evolves he'll live it more often than not, so watch out for that.

Out of curiosity (and I apologize if this doesn't belong here or has already been answered), what would happen if Greninja were to be poisoned, then become a poison type?

I believe he remains poisoned. That case is true in the event of a type change through Conversion or Color Change, so I think it's the same with Protean, but I could be wrong. The same applies with being poisoned and changing to Steel-type and being burned and changing to Fire-type.

 

[tinyranitar]

Guys what about this set tho
Greninja @ Leftovers
Ability: Protean
EVs: (not sure yet)
Nature (Naive maybe?)
- Protect
- Shadow Sneak
- Dark Pulse / Night Slash
- Spikes

This lets you counter both Aegislash and Mega Kangaskhan, which are pretty common. Protect turn you into Normal type, which is immune to Shadow Sneak, and null the Fake Out from Kangaskhan. Shadow Sneak completely check Kangaskhan, yes I know it doesn't deal damage but now you are immune to Power Up Punch and normal STAB, also when you outspeed Kangaskhan, Sucker Punch is also nulled, and have less PP than shadow Sneak. Dark Pulse is for the K.O. of Aegislash, and Spikes on predicted king's shield or Sucker Punch

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Guys what about this set tho
Greninja @ Leftovers
Ability: Protean
EVs: (not sure yet)
Nature (Naive maybe?)
- Protect
- Shadow Sneak
- Dark Pulse / Night Slash
- Spikes

This lets you counter both Aegislash and Mega Kangaskhan, which are pretty common. Protect turn you into Normal type, which is immune to Shadow Sneak, and null the Fake Out from Kangaskhan. Shadow Sneak completely check Kangaskhan, yes I know it doesn't deal damage but now you are immune to Power Up Punch and normal STAB, also when you outspeed Kangaskhan, Sucker Punch is also nulled, and have less PP than shadow Sneak. Dark Pulse is for the K.O. of Aegislash, and Spikes on predicted king's shield or Sucker Punch

This set doesn't even check Kangaskhan (not that any of the Greninja sets do), nevermind countering it. Since when has there ever been a Kang that doesn't carry one of EQ, Crunch or Fire Punch? All of which 2HKO Greninja at +0 at worst. Any set that uses Greninja's Ability for a defensive purpose is a gimmick at best.

 

[tinyranitar]

Since when has there ever been a Kang that doesn't carry one of EQ, Crunch or Fire Punch

Well I once saw Kangaskhan running Sucker Punch, Fake Out, Return, Power-Up Punch

But well, as you said, defensive sets ARE gimmick

 

[Villuminatic]

I have been testing this Greninja set out and it is working out pretty well for me:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Extrasensory
- Ice Beam

The timid nature allows this thing to outspeed most pokes without Choice Scarf. Before this set, I was running a Modest nature, but I realized that the extra damage really didn't make 2HKO's into OHKO's. With a Life Orb and 252 EV's in SpA, this thing reaches 396, which is pretty crazy.

 

[farranpoison]

I have been testing this Greninja set out and it is working out pretty well for me:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Extrasensory
- Ice Beam

The timid nature allows this thing to outspeed most pokes without Choice Scarf. Before this set, I was running a Modest nature, but I realized that the extra damage really didn't make 2HKO's into OHKO's. With a Life Orb and 252 EV's in SpA, this thing reaches 396, which is pretty crazy.

This spread is pretty much the standard spread for Greninja. Nothing new added here. You should run U-Turn or Grass Knot instead of Extrasensory because lol Psychic.

 

[PenguinKnight]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but I can't seem to find a good answer in this thread.
Basically what most people are saying is that Greninja's teammates have to be strong against priority and destroy specially defensive pokemon. What exactly are these pokemon anyways?

Scizor? Bulky Swords Dance stops many specially defensive pokemon, although not Rotom. Greninja can switch in on fire moves directed at Scizor.

Something else I could see is Roserade. Since Rotom-W might just be Greninja's greatest enemy, Roserade is one of the best counters, hitting back with STAB grass moves. It also resists Mach Punch and commonly carries Hidden Power Fire for the Bullet Punch user, Scizor. However, Roserade still doesn't solve the Tentacruel problems.

 

[Magicfire]

U-Turn or Grass Knot instead of Extrasensory because lol Psychic.

That isn't true. It depends on what you want and what your team needs.

 

[Jin White]

Quick question. I've been running the Naive | Life Orb | 4 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed | [Surf / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / U-Turn] and we all know it wrecks shop.

But, my team desperately wants priority and lately I've seen Shadow Sneak do a surprising amount of work. I'm looking for a good EV spread to give Shadow Sneak at least some power, if I want to put it in over Dark Pulse. Is there a certain number of attack EVs you find viable for running Shadow Sneak ?

One of Greninja's major draws is its ability to OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale, and I definitely don't want to lose that.

 

[Je-Muzu]

I want to run a Hasty| Life Orb set with [Surf / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / U-Turn] i was definitely putting 252 in Speed but was wondering how much between Sp.atk and attack you can split to still get the KO's with the special side, but give the U-turn an extra kick, sorry if this belongs in SQSA thread

 

[Omgwyatt]

Quick question. I've been running the Naive | Life Orb | 4 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed | [Surf / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / U-Turn] and we all know it wrecks shop.

But, my team desperately wants priority and lately I've seen Shadow Sneak do a surprising amount of work. I'm looking for a good EV spread to give Shadow Sneak at least some power, if I want to put it in over Dark Pulse. Is there a certain number of attack EVs you find viable for running Shadow Sneak ?

One of Greninja's major draws is its ability to OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale, and I definitely don't want to lose that.

With 168 Sp. A, Ice Beam is guaranteed to OHKO Dragonite and guaranteed to OHKO Tanky Dragonite after Stealth Rock

168 Sp. A Life Orb, Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 Sp. D Dragonite: 608-717 (158 - 186%)

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

With 168 Sp. A, Ice Beam is guaranteed to OHKO Dragonite and guaranteed to OHKO Tanky Dragonite after Stealth Rock

168 Sp. A Life Orb, Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 Sp. D Dragonite: 608-717 (158 - 186%)

I assume you forgot multiscale in your calcs.

168 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 304-359 (78.7 - 93%)
(304, 307, 312, 312, 315, 320, 322, 328, 330, 335, 338, 343, 346, 351, 354, 359)

 

[Machi]

I assume you forgot multiscale in your calcs.

168 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 304-359 (78.7 - 93%)
(304, 307, 312, 312, 315, 320, 322, 328, 330, 335, 338, 343, 346, 351, 354, 359)

He mentioned after stealth rock so... He isn't off in not calculating without it.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

He mentioned after stealth rock so... He isn't off in not calculating without it.

Only mentioned rocks for bulky dnite.

 

[Omgwyatt]

Only mentioned rocks for bulky dnite.

right, because it kills the other one through Multiscale.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

right, because it kills the other one through Multiscale.

168 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 304-359 (93.8 - 110.8%)
(304, 307, 312, 312, 315, 320, 322, 328, 330, 335, 338, 343, 346, 351, 354, 359)

Not a guarenteed ohko, but I understand what you meant.

 

[Omgwyatt]

168 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 304-359 (93.8 - 110.8%)
(304, 307, 312, 312, 315, 320, 322, 328, 330, 335, 338, 343, 346, 351, 354, 359)

Not a guarenteed ohko, but I understand what you meant.

oh woops, I was looking at my 252 Sp. A numbers for that, my bad too.

 

[Magicfire]

But, my team desperately wants priority and lately I've seen Shadow Sneak do a surprising amount of work. I'm looking for a good EV spread to give Shadow Sneak at least some power, if I want to put it in over Dark Pulse. Is there a certain number of attack EVs you find viable for running Shadow Sneak ?

One of Greninja's major draws is its ability to OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale, and I definitely don't want to lose that.

Don't use Shadow Sneak. Ever. It's weak, it takes away coverage, it's not smart to use it. Everything that it can hit is also hit by Dark Pulse, which is stronger and aso has a flinch rate. If you really, really need priority, then you're better off using Talonflame, Scizor, Breloom, or anything else with better Attack or better STAB moves.

 

[Hidious]

Is there anything that outspeeds AND can ohko this SOB?

Pretty much any scarfed mon with a super effective move