Genetics and intelligence

All ethnic qualities are genetic. It's generally acceptable to say that Africans commonly have white skin and Europeans commonly have white skin. It's also okay to say that Africans are generally taller than Europeans, who are generally taller than Asians. It's also acceptable to say that Africans have a higher risk of being born with sickle-cell anemia, and that Europeans posses a lower resistance to malaria than Africans. However, it's not okay to say that Africans and Europeans do not posses the same degree of intelligence.

IQ can't necessarily be used to measure intelligence on a "high-low" scale. Comparing an autistic person to a "normal" person on a traditional IQ test would yield results suggesting that the autistic person is, in comparison to the "normal" person, mentally inferior. However, if one administered a test dealing exclusively with spatial reasoning problems, the results might suggest that the "normal" person is mentally inferior to the one with autism. If two people receive different scores on an IQ test, the person with the higher score is not necessarily more intelligent. However, the two people are mentally different.

Numerous studies have been conducted separating identical twins from birth and placing them in families with different ethnical, social, and economic backgrounds, and barring injury inflicting serious mental trauma, the twins' IQ ratings will be within several points of each other. So it would not be incorrect to say that IQ is, to a large part, genetically influenced. There are many genetic qualities that are partially influenced by environment. For example, shorter height for Asians may be linked to Asian diet as well as Asian genes. However, nearly all physical characteristics are genetically determined. (I'm counting mental capacity as a physical characteristic, since it relates to the human brain, which exists within the realm of our universe. The human brain is tangible.)

The main reason that I can see for opposition is that many people believe that if we are not all regarded as equals, there will inevitably be a group which regard themselves as "superior." And that would have negative consequences, as Hitler showed us. The proposed solution, then, is to disregard our differences and claim that everyone, regardless of disposition or circumstance, is the same.

However, I feel that greater damage can be done by assuming that we are all equals. Looking at the facts objectively, Africa's population tends to score roughly twenty points lower than most people in western countries. Does this mean that Africans are intellectually inferior? Not necessarily, because IQ is not necessarily an accurate reflection of mental capacity (as discussed in the autism example). But does it mean that people hailing from western nations think differently from Africans? I believe that the answer is yes. And, because they are different, we can not assume that what is best for westerners is best for Africans. For example, western democracy works great in the US and Europe. Can we assume that it would also work in Africa? If one assumes that all humans are created equally, then the answer is yes. But I don't believe this to be the case.

What I don't understand is why this line of thinking is considered so heretical or slanderous. It seems almost socially unacceptable to claim that members of different races may possess different mental capacities. James Watson made this claim, and was forced to retract it, offer a formal apology, and nearly lost his Nobel Prize over it. What is wrong with pointing out potential links between race and intelligence?
 
We live in a time where everything has to be worded in order to prevent offending a particular group of people. That is about as simple and true of an answer that I can provide you. How can you expect people not to get offended if you say their race is inferior when it comes to intelligence? It is just like gay people getting offended if you call them a queer or fat people getting offended if you call them fat.
 
i still say the one tommy lee quote from Men in black is the best quote for describing the entire human race "a person is smart but people are dumb panicy dangerous animals"
 

Carl

or Varl
is a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Race doesn't exist.

Anyway, of course people in Africa will think differently than those in Asia or wherever else but I think that's culturally related and not genetically related. IQ tests examine a person by a specific cultural standard so obviously someone of a different culture will score differently. Do genes have a correlation with intelligence? Absolutely. Is that the only limiting factor for intelligence? Absolutely not. Is there a correlation with skin color and intelligence? I'm definitely going to have to say no here. Of course people think differently but I don't think you can make a blanket statement saying that a majority of people with this skin color thinks this way. Justin touched on it why it's unacceptable these days to try and even make such a claim and it pretty much comes down in part to the political correctness of Western culture these days. I'd also go as far as to say race, specifically concerning black people, is still a very touchy subject because of all the work done in anthropology to try and prove their inferiority when compared to whites. On top of that, different in American culture is usually seen as negative. So to go and even say something like "blacks think differently than whites" would always in some way imply "blacks are dumber than whites" based on the history of race in human civilization.

I dunno.. a lot of random thoughts there. Could you make a blanket statement concerning people of a given country or region think differently than another? As long as the why is culture and as long as the regions/countries involved in no way could imply a racial hierarchy, I think you could. But to insinuate that different races have different mental abilities when (imo) race is a bogus scientific concept to begin with.. sorry, that doesn't have merit. At least not with me.
 
A black man asks a white boy: When you look at me, do you see a black man?
The boy answers: No, I see you as a person, just like me.
The man replys: Well, I find that offensive. My family and I have had to pay for our differences, the least you can do is respect that I am in fact black. Not less then, just different.

That conversation was one my step-father had with his next door neighbor. People are different, we have to allow them to be different, without being less. There are people who would parade around saying the holocaust didn't happen. What do they gain by pretending it didn't happen? The world still understands just how dangerous sterotypes and rasism is. We shrug them off and call them idiots, i mean, we'd never do that again. Just look at our schools, our elections, and our churches.
 
How can you expect people not to get offended if you say their race is inferior when it comes to intelligence?
You are very correct, people will always be offended. This doesn't mean that they should be though, imo. Not when there are other factors to compensate for "intelligence".

Everyone has their own "flaws" that prevent them from being the best human being they can be. So if little Timmy is told that he's physically not coordinated enough to make the school basket ball team, should he get offended? I really don't understand why anyone should be. They aren't good at basketball, so they don't make the team. But hey does it really matter when he maintains a 96 average in school?

There really isn't anything wrong with applying general attributes like this to an entire race, when trends show that, on average, one race is stronger/more intellectual/etc than the other. (although it can be hard to argue what exactly constitutes "smarter", I think we can all agree that each race thinks differently). And is it bad when someone makes an exception to the rule, and the African kid gets an MD in English? Of course not, that's great he went above an beyond.

In my opinion, saying one race is superior than another in certain aspects is about as scientific as: Tigers are stronger than Lions. its only when we accept the scientific facts that we can strengthen ourselves as a community.
 
Race doesn't exist.
Yes, but it's easier than saying "the common set of genetic qualities that are prevalent within a certain region."

I'm also not saying that skin color is the determinant of intelligence. To say that traits related to physical appearance are what determine mental capacity would be silly; one could say that height is inversely proportional to one's ability to perform well on an IQ test (given that Asians, who are generally below-average, score higher than whites, who are generally median height, who score higher than blacks, who are generally above-average height). However, when comparing second generation immigrants who reside in the same country, using the terms "black" and "white" makes more sense than terming them "of European decent" and "of African decent."
 

Surgo

goes to eleven
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Kikuichimonji said:
What I don't understand is why this line of thinking is considered so heretical or slanderous. It seems almost socially unacceptable to claim that members of different races may possess different mental capacities. James Watson made this claim, and was forced to retract it, offer a formal apology, and nearly lost his Nobel Prize over it. What is wrong with pointing out potential links between race and intelligence?
Because most of the time the statement itself is wrong? Just because one race has some average point doesn't mean there's not going to be a ton of outliers. The way the statement is usually used (or, at least, as I've seen it used) is as a stereotype of everyone...which is stupid and incorrect.
 
Making blanket statements about the intellectual capacities of different races downplays the fact that "intellect" is determined on a completely individual basis. This isn't surprising given the historical motivations behind such "sciences".

White family adopts kid from Zimbabwe. They read to him every night, play Mozart for him when he plays, give him Legos to work with, send him to good schools with good teachers, make sure he gets exposed to a wide range of extracurriculars. Of course the kid is going to be better off intellectually than if he had grown up in an impoverished village in Africa.

Context plays the biggest factor in development, but as context is closely tied to race it is easy to correlate things wrongly.
 
I think your example of Africans having lower overall IQ has little to do with race and more to do with Africa being a severely impoverished third world country. Consider what starvation and chronic malnutrition do to a developing child's brain and you might have a more plausible explanation for the lower IQ. A lot of Central/South America and south Asia would score just as poorly for the same reason, and the common variable isn't that they're minorities, it's that they grow up economically disadvantaged to the point where many starve to death and others sell their own kids to survive.

Give a black person the same upbringing and opportunities as a white person, i.e. middle class with college educated parents and a strong incentive to achieve well academically, and they will perform just as well. Otherwise please tell my black doctor he has a lower than average IQ.

In short, correlation is not causation.
 
You can't conclude much with a few average points. Even if we could somehow prove that black people have 10 IQ points less on average than white people, the odds that a black man taken at random is smarter than a white man taken at random are certainly not negligible. You also have to consider the whole distribution: the race with the worst average could be the one with the most geniuses, etc.

For a loaded concept such as intelligence, it is irresponsible to claim that a race is superior to another because most people have too bad judgment to understand that it doesn't mean much. Instead of evaluating people individually, they will discard everyone of a certain race or treat them as if they were inferior, even though the correlation between race and intelligence is too weak to be significant if not completely overshadowed by other factors such as context.

As for everyone being equal, obviously they aren't. Although it's next to impossible for a person to be superior to another in every aspect you can think of, some forms of intelligence are more "useful" than others and there are people in this world who we definitely deem as superior. When we claim that "everybody is equal", we claim that nobody should have an unfair advantage over anyone else (a genetic advantage is considered "fair"). That way, smarter people will have to earn their priviledges, which is better than getting them by right of caste. There's also the fact that there isn't any "group" that could pretend to be superior to all the members of another group, so if they gave themselves priviledges it would be completely unfair to the best elements of the other group. A system where people start as equals and earn their priviledges is inherently fairer (that's not exactly what we have here but it's close enough).
 

X-Act

np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Even if a certain group of people have higher IQs than another group on average, it doesn't mean that every person in the first group is smarter than each person in the second group.
 
We live in a time where everything has to be worded in order to prevent offending a particular group of people. That is about as simple and true of an answer that I can provide you.
Actually, I can provide an even simpler answer: political correctness!
 
James Watson made this claim, and was forced to retract it, offer a formal apology, and nearly lost his Nobel Prize over it.
He never retracted his claim that different people from different geographical locations have different intelligence (notice I didn't mention race). As non politically-correct as it seems it is something confirmed by multiple non-controversial studies. However he did say this

To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant.
Not being qualified in this field I don't think I should be the one to judge whether the differences in intelligence exist or not but I know that wanting something to be true doesn't make it so.
 
A black man asks a white boy: When you look at me, do you see a black man?
The boy answers: No, I see you as a person, just like me.
The man replys: Well, I find that offensive. My family and I have had to pay for our differences, the least you can do is respect that I am in fact black. Not less then, just different.

That conversation was one my step-father had with his next door neighbor. People are different, we have to allow them to be different, without being less. There are people who would parade around saying the holocaust didn't happen. What do they gain by pretending it didn't happen? The world still understands just how dangerous sterotypes and rasism is. We shrug them off and call them idiots, i mean, we'd never do that again. Just look at our schools, our elections, and our churches.
Actually I don't believe in perpetuating differences among people. I have never associated my self with any cultural "identity" and i've done fine. Honestly if people would decide that everyone is essentially the same and there are no real differences we'd all be better off.

As to intelligence one race probably is smarter then the others statistically but I doubt its by a significant amount. I do agree we should be able to discuss it though.
 
A black man asks a white boy: When you look at me, do you see a black man?
The boy answers: No, I see you as a person, just like me.
The man replys: Well, I find that offensive. My family and I have had to pay for our differences, the least you can do is respect that I am in fact black. Not less then, just different.

That conversation was one my step-father had with his next door neighbor. People are different, we have to allow them to be different, without being less. There are people who would parade around saying the holocaust didn't happen. What do they gain by pretending it didn't happen? The world still understands just how dangerous sterotypes and rasism is. We shrug them off and call them idiots, i mean, we'd never do that again. Just look at our schools, our elections, and our churches.
only thing i have for this thread is "that black guy's a fucking moron"
 
only thing i have for this thread is "that black guy's a fucking moron"
Haha...Imagine being like 8 and playing around in your yard with worms or w/e when your grown neighbor strolls over to you, blocks out the sun and just lays it on you with "When you look at me, do you see a Black man?"
 
Basically the strongest traits live on

so people who live will be very good at one aspect weather it tennis or maths. When most people say that we are all equal i hope they are saying that we are overall equal and that are strengths and weakness even us out.
If you take some traits to be greater supremor importance then you will get scewed results. Quick note on politcal correctness, it is really dum to say because you have more a very slight difference in your colour the acounts to much. As we should now be intellegent enough now to know there is not realistic difference that is genetic at least. If there are any differences people bring up it is more culture related in my opinion. Also when we are wiping clean this mark on humanities history we have to do a good job of it and it has to be done. When you clean your clothes you may not be that keen on doing so but it has to be done. You would also be careful to do a good job of it and not say that you like that stain and keep it. The problem is that when you give in the these points that are slightly racist you have to allow more to slip. This then finished with you feeling great about your self saying you have cleaned it but you didn't change anything.


if there are any spelling mistakes in this i am sorry.
 

obi

formerly david stone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Yes, but it's easier than saying "the common set of genetic qualities that are prevalent within a certain region."

You can't conclude much with a few average points. Even if we could somehow prove that black people have 10 IQ points less on average than white people, the odds that a black man taken at random is smarter than a white man taken at random are certainly not negligible. You also have to consider the whole distribution: the race with the worst average could be the one with the most geniuses, etc.
This is true to some extent for gender. The average IQ scores between men and women is at roughly 100 for both. Men are far more likely to score at the very high levels, but are also more likely to score at the very low levels.

Basically the strongest traits live on
Not quite. Those traits that decrease the chance of having viable offspring in a given environment are more likely to die out. That's not the same as saying the strongest live on.

When most people say that we are all equal i hope they are saying that we are overall equal and that are strengths and weakness even us out.
If you take some traits to be greater supremor importance then you will get scewed results.
Oh? So my place as the world's fastest cup-stacker is just as important as someone's ability to cure cancer or create a machine that will guarantee fresh water to everyone in the world? It's impossible to not weight things differently, and this weighting is inherently subjective, so it makes no sense to say that all things even out. It's also simply untrue. There is no cosmic principle that all people must be equally capable at everything, or even superior at anything.

Quick note on politcal correctness, it is really dum to say because you have more a very slight difference in your colour the acounts to much. As we should now be intellegent enough now to know there is not realistic difference that is genetic at least.
Genetics plays a major role in many mental processes. I don't find it absurd to consider intelligence as one of those. I am certain that it plays at least some role. The only question is how much.
 
Its been proven that children's IQ's have been dropping in the US since the 1920's but why? And why is our education system becoming worse and worse every day? The autism rate is also skyrocketing.

The US government is trying to dumb down the public so they don't pay attention as to what is actually going on in our nation today. So our Exective branch can boost there power passing things like the North American Union with out congresses consent, the Patriot Act, the Animal Entireprize Terrorism Act, the Real ID Act, and more.

They do this through the fluoridation of water and forcing our children to take vaciens, its not genetics, its the new world order thats dumbing down the public.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpFu_bYkomc
http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neurological_damage.htm
http://www.beinghealthynaturally.com/childrenbabyhealth/dangersvaccine.htm
http://www.infowars.com/articles/sc...ing_up_serious_hazards_water_fluoridation.htm
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top