General Discussion

[dende5416]

Snover @ Eviolite
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 184 SAtk / 116 SDef / 104 Atk / 36 HP / 36 Def
Quiet Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Ice Shard
- Hidden Power [Fire]

standard smogon eviolite set. could probably tailor the ev's more to your needs. could maybe run toxic or subseed too. maybe a different hidden power.

Since Yanma can't OHKO you, why not crush him with Blizzard and just be done with it?

236- SpA (custom) Bug Buzz vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Snover: 10-14 (43.47 - 60.86%) -- 88.67% chance to 2HKO

Had to custom input Yanma since he was missing for some reason, bah.

 

[Chieliee]

The Yanma has a -spatk nature ( it should be modest)

 

[Pen Ink]

Since Yanma can't OHKO you, why not crush him with Blizzard and just be done with it?

236- SpA (custom) Bug Buzz vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Snover: 10-14 (43.47 - 60.86%) -- 88.67% chance to 2HKO

Had to custom input Yanma since he was missing for some reason, bah.

252+ SpA Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Snover: 18-24 (78.26 - 104.34%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Snover: 18-24 (78.26 - 104.34%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

ice shard should 2hko life orb variants and probably almost 2hko eviolite variants without sr.

 

[atomicllamas]

252+ SpA Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Snover: 18-24 (78.26 - 104.34%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Snover: 18-24 (78.26 - 104.34%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

ice shard should 2hko life orb variants and probably almost 2hko eviolite variants without sr.

Yeah, snover is still a really shaky check to Yanma, dying to LO every time (granted hail + life orb will leave it real weak after ice shard).

104 Atk Snover Ice Shard vs. 156 HP / 0 Def (custom): 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
104 Atk Snover Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 14-18 (60.86 - 78.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (if running no HP EVs, it also only does 78% with a very max role, otherwise 60%)

It actually can revenge kill eviolite Yanma 93.75% of the time with blizzard assuming it has taken no prior damage, but you basically lose 2 mons (snover + what you sacked) in the process.

Since we are taking about a defensive core of Slowpoke/Ponyta/Snover, you can clearly work around the Yanma weakness in the remaining slots, Archen for example could be a valuable addition to this core (236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Giga Drain vs. 236 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Archen: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 99.78% chance to 3HKO), as it provides an answer to Yanma, can provide SR, has reliable recovery and even defog if you see fit, its just to bad pluck doesn't steal berry juice :/.

Edit: has anyone else taken to using HP Ice on Yanma? Sure you struggle with steel types, but its not like HP ground is dealing with any of them besides Magnemite, and HP Ice is super useful for nailing Gligar, who I always have a lot of trouble with.

 

[Heysup]

I have to say that I'm seeing the same core Pokemon in basically every team that I have a reasonable game with. That core being Sneasel/Gligar/Mienfoo (sometimes Meditite) and then 3 fillers that also usually consist of just Swirlix, the odd dwebble, and such. It's getting kind of stale.

 

[Swan Songs]

I have to say that I'm seeing the same core Pokemon in basically every team that I have a reasonable game with. That core being Sneasel/Gligar/Mienfoo (sometimes Meditite) and then 3 fillers that also usually consist of just Swirlix, the odd dwebble, and such. It's getting kind of stale.

Basically listed my team lol.
Yea most teams are Sneasel/Gligar/Meditite (I don't see any Mienfoo)/Swirlix/Dweeble/Random

 

[Talpr0ne]

Guess who is getting Shadow Tag now!

Sure she struggles against Sneasel, Carvanha and Yanma

However, the biggest issue is that Trick is illegal with Shadow Tag; it was aviable only in Gen5 and you can't have a Shadow Tag Gothita at that point.(this doesn't applies to Gothorita and Gothitelle in the higher tiers, unless for some reasons you want to run a female Gothitelle with Trick)

 

[Electrolyte]

As a side note from all of the Sneasel / Gligar / unbanned mons / things hype, Water-types are pretty great in Gen 6, too. None of the newly released Pokemon resist powerful Water-type STAB, and few common old Pokemon do either as Dragon-types are still as uncommon as ever and Grass-types are rarer because of Sneasel / Gligar's ability to nail them hard. Plus, Water-types resist a lot of popular new attack types, mainly Sneasel's Ice-type attacks, as well as new Steel-type attacks to hit Fairies, and many have enough natural bulk to sponge neutral attacks common in the tier.

In terms of specific Pokemon; Chinchou, Mantyke, Tirtouga, and Frillish all come into mind. Chinchou still has great speed, bulk, and resistances, and also gets Volt Switch and Thunderbolt. Mantyke is a scary sweeper, having the bulk to tank most attacks and the ability to set up Rain, with Swift Swim and powerful Rain boosted Hydro Pumps to power through opponents. Tirtouga is part of the Sturdy + Shell Smash + Berry Juice sweeper group, and is great because it doesn't give a shit about common sneasel + meditite priority checking. Frillish is an oddball but still has a very viable niche; it walls Meditite to hell and can burn everything with Scald. All it really has to fear is the Stealth Rock-weak Sneasel, and it can just switch out at that.

In terms of moves Water-types still retain the advantage they had last Gen. Hydro Pump was nerfed but it's still pretty powerful; coming off the the solid SpA stats of most Water-types lets it be used to smack opponents real hard, even when unboosted. Surf is solid Water-type STAB as well, though not as powerful as Hydro Pump it still usually gets the job done with perfect accuracy. Scald is also still as annoying, if not even more annoying, than it was last generation. Burns hurt a lot more this generation since there are so many new prevalent physical attackers, and even the special attackers hate the added damage.

All in all, Water-types are terrific and definitely should not be forgotten when building teams.

EDIT: Also forgot about Skrelp, which people claim are great but I haven't really used myself. Adaptability + Scald / Surf / Hydro Pump is bound to hit every hard, and it also has an added niche of walling the fuck out of Meditite as well as beating unboosted Swirlix 1 v 1 with Sludge Bomb.


EDIT 2 @ below: Other than Zen Headbutt. I don't know how often exactly ZHB is used on Meditite but I've only seen it like once so idk :/

 

[Heysup]

EDIT: Also forgot about Skrelp, which people claim are great but I haven't really used myself. Adaptability + Scald / Surf / Hydro Pump is bound to hit every hard, and it also has an added niche of walling the fuck out of Meditite as well as beating unboosted Swirlix 1 v 1 with Sludge Bomb.

Zen Headbutt?

 

[ihf]

I wonder if Litlo is viable for sweeper as it has moxie and dark and fire coverage. Too bad he weak to fighting types as his normal types doesn't really help him except he can switch ghost types?

 

[Darkamber8828]

Litleo only has 50 base attack, and its best Fire STAB is Fire Fang, which kind of sucks. Maybe a Flame Charge / Wild Charge / Crunch / Return sweeper, but outside of Moxie, probably done better by Houndour or Ponyta. Houndour has better typing, better stats, and priority STAB in Sucker Punch, while Ponyta has much better stats, Flare Blitz, and doesn't have a weakness to Mach Punch.

 

[fatty]

what's weird to me is that no one is talking about tangela. i've run pretty much every single one of the omnipresent, supposed op lc mons (sneasel, gligar, etc.) and tangela has easily been the one that consistently performs the best and most reliably. it's defensive prowess is remarkable, by not only being able to at the least check most waters and grounds and a shit ton of physical attackers, but also bolstering it's longevity through regen + giga drain. furthermore, it's not only the perfect pivot through defensive means, but also through its great offensive prowess. leaf storm from this thing is ridiculously powerful, nuking resists and non resists alike. sleep powder only adds to the madness by allowing tangela to sleep any so called 'counters'. it's ironic that the only times i have trouble abusing the power of tangela is when the opponent is running a tangela of their own to soak up sleep powder and grass moves, and even then it's pretty much just a battle of who can use their tangela better.

 

[Heysup]

what's weird to me is that no one is talking about tangela. i've run pretty much every single one of the omnipresent, supposed op lc mons (sneasel, gligar, etc.) and tangela has easily been the one that consistently performs the best and most reliably. it's defensive prowess is remarkable, by not only being able to at the least check most waters and grounds and a shit ton of physical attackers, but also bolstering it's longevity through regen + giga drain. furthermore, it's not only the perfect pivot through defensive means, but also through its great offensive prowess. leaf storm from this thing is ridiculously powerful, nuking resists and non resists alike. sleep powder only adds to the madness by allowing tangela to sleep any so called 'counters'. it's ironic that the only times i have trouble abusing the power of tangela is when the opponent is running a tangela of their own to soak up sleep powder and grass moves, and even then it's pretty much just a battle of who can use their tangela better.

I agree with this to a certain extent; Tangela is performing incredibly well in this metagame because of the way its shaped, which is by strong physical attackers and Pokemon with high Def/Low SpD. I.E. Things are specialized to beat Sneasel. Tangela tends to take advantage of these Pokemon because it only gets tickled by most physical attacks and hits them where it hurts in their usually non-padded SpD.

Examples: Mienfoo/Fighting-types, Honedge, Gligar w/o Flight Gem, etc.

 

[Lovelace]

So today I delved into the strange and magnificent world of Little Cup. I really like the bulky pivot-ness of the tier- standard Mienfoo is easily becoming my favourite set of all time with its consistent utility. Some things are really weirding me out though, I'm seeing a lot of stuff like Sneasel and Berry Juice that made my jaw drop the first time I used them. I'm chalking it up to inexperience though and I'm looking forward to learning more about the tier.

 

[Pen Ink]

The problem right now with Bulky Mienfoo imo is that it's complete set up bait for swirling unless you run pjab, which means you have to drop fake out / uturn. I'm not even sure if standard evio mienfoo even ohkos swirlix to begin with.

The other thing is that mienfoo actually gets its real bulk from eviolite, while knock off is extremely popular right now. This means that mienfoo has a tough time really switching in, especially when yanma / gligar are also extremely popular.

Until bans happen I really think that offensive mienfoo is the only one worth using unless you really need a bulky pivot, but then again gligar is now unbanned and has much better bulk and typing.

 

[Rowan]

The problem right now with Bulky Mienfoo imo is that it's complete set up bait for swirling unless you run pjab, which means you have to drop fake out / uturn. I'm not even sure if standard evio mienfoo even ohkos swirlix to begin with.

The other thing is that mienfoo actually gets its real bulk from eviolite, while knock off is extremely popular right now. This means that mienfoo has a tough time really switching in, especially when yanma / gligar are also extremely popular.

Until bans happen I really think that offensive mienfoo is the only one worth using unless you really need a bulky pivot, but then again gligar is now unbanned and has much better bulk and typing.

Nah, I've used Bulky Pivot Mienfoo, it's still really good. Knock Off and U-turn provide extremely valuable support to the team, keeping momentum on your side really well. It doesn't really need Poison Jab - infact if it uses Poison Jab on Swirlix you'll probably just activate Berry Juice which isn't good, it's best to U-turn out to something that can one shot it. But then again, Fake Out isn't that necessary either, so there's not much harm in running it.
Of course, with the new threats of Gligar, Yanma, Meditite and Swirlix, Mienfoo isn't as good as it was last generation but it is still a really good utility mon.

 

[Heysup]

Bulkyfoo is a really common Pokemon solely because it can check Sneasel, I wouldn't say it has much to do with its utility.

 

[prem]

so because blara didnt let me make a thread to say one thing PLEASE FUCKING READ THIS

so pokebank was confirmed to not allow the transfer of items so FLYING GEM IS GOING TO BE FOREVER ILLEGAL UNTIL THEY (MAYBE) RELEASE IT IN THE THIRD GAME OF THE SERIES. THAT MEANS GG GLIGAR GG FLETCHLING GG ACROBATICS

and everything else that uses it but yeah this is a big one PLEASE FUCKING READ THIS

 

[Talpr0ne]

so because blara didnt let me make a thread to say one thing PLEASE FUCKING READ THIS

so pokebank was confirmed to not allow the transfer of items so FLYING GEM IS GOING TO BE FOREVER ILLEGAL UNTIL THEY (MAYBE) RELEASE IT IN THE THIRD GAME OF THE SERIES. THAT MEANS GG GLIGAR GG FLETCHLING GG ACROBATICS

and everything else that uses it but yeah this is a big one PLEASE FUCKING READ THIS

Nah, probably it will be released soon in the Global Link games.

 

[prem]

Nah, probably it will be released soon in the Global Link games.

yeah but we have absolutely no proof of that in anyway so until otherwise we assuming flying gem is banned

 

[macle]

i've been trying to use speed boost venipede but it has really bad attack moves. It can set up some tspikes / spikes but that's really it. It doen't get baton pass so you can't bp those. Id rather use dwebble to set up hazards or yamna to sweep tbh.

 

[leingodf8]

so because blara didnt let me make a thread to say one thing PLEASE FUCKING READ THIS

so pokebank was confirmed to not allow the transfer of items so FLYING GEM IS GOING TO BE FOREVER ILLEGAL UNTIL THEY (MAYBE) RELEASE IT IN THE THIRD GAME OF THE SERIES. THAT MEANS GG GLIGAR GG FLETCHLING GG ACROBATICS

and everything else that uses it but yeah this is a big one PLEASE FUCKING READ THIS

Hmmm darn. Well i highly doubt it means gg gligar, berry juice sets were only slightly less powerful than flying gem on the offense, and on defensive sets it never ran flying gem to begin with. Biggest ones hit are of course fletchling and my poor drifloon T_T.

 

[Shouting]

Lack of flying gem hurts Driftloon the most in my opinion, since now it's more or less overshadowed by Missy and Gastly as the only thing it can pull off is a CM set, something like Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Calm Mind / Rest with Chesto Berry and Unburden.

Fletchling is hurt a lot, as Flying Gem is practically made for it to abuse, but berry juice as an option isn't terrible at all, and he has trouble setting up as is so it could probably work decently.

Gilgar also got like 5 times easier to check without flying gem, which makes me a happy camper.

 

[Heysup]

Honestly I used Berry Juice over Flying Gem. If a BJ-less meta ever happens, Gligar will have to go back to Oran Berry or something (Acrobatics) or Eviolite. It'll still be hard to deal with though.

 

[Plastic Moose]

I just played a few battle on pokebank and all I can say is that Carvanha is fantastic. great power and incredible sweeping ability. just get rid of priority and it wrecks!

another great poke is Snubull, which has fantastic bulk and good attacking power. Its great if you need a bulky pokemon to support an offensive team that won't lose momentum.