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General Analysis: The NeverUsed Metagame
- Thread starter 0rz
- Start date
Flareon cannot sweep most UU teams. ._.
No, of course, since having the same attack as Machamp, Rhydon and Ursarig, and a STAB 140 power special move from a base 95 special attack to compensate the lack of physical ditto, as well as more speed than all of the previous examples is utter crap, surely? As an indication of that kind of power, a Hidden Power fighting/ground from a max attack, non-CB Flareon deals 35-41% damage to a max defense, Bold, max hp Sudowoodo. And most Sudo's have less than that if they wish to be able to do anything but soak hits. Slap a CB on the thing and it's a certain 2HKO. In a metagame where most fast pokes are whimps, and where paralysis runs rampant, 65 base speed is not that much of a liability, and the damage it can dish out is awesome. Add to that a base special defense of 110, and you've got something that can easily be slapped on most UU teams without gimping them, and something that is certainly too strong for a metagame where Murkrow shines and CB Volbeat sweeps teams.bluelightstar said:
Please, do not turn the NU metagame into yet another maxed power-competition with ten viable pokes akin to the other metagames. NU is really the only metagame where you still can use -anything- and still have fun; Do not ruin that by slapping an N to the rank of perfectly strong UU pokes and forcing the entire competition to do the same or be swept away. Flareon in NU makes baby Unown cry - Dry his tears, use Magcargo :(.
does that prove he can sweep UU team? If it does then i have to disagree totally. The worst thing about flareon is that it gets no physical stab off its awesome attack like absol. It certainly cant match up to the likes of machamp or ursaring and even the UU birds. However i do agree its overpowered to be NU but more of a BL between UU and NU (LOL).
Too bad flareon 2hko suduwoodu cause sudo takes only one turn to kill flareon :lol:
Too bad flareon 2hko suduwoodu cause sudo takes only one turn to kill flareon :lol:
It proves that he has all the means in the world to do so, as far as stats go. He won't, of course, sweep singlehandedly, but if a poke can do that, it doesn't belong in the metagame in the first place.ShinySandslash said:
As I said in my previous post, this is nicely off-set by that 140 power, STAB move from a well above average special attack. Something Absol (unless someone, during my absense, has modded Smogon) lacks.ShinySandslash said:
The only comparision between Flareon and Champ/Ursarig I made was the attack power. In a battle, Flareon plays a different role, as he is more of a mixed sweeper than a specialized physical powerhouse.ShinySandslash said:
Hrmph, there's a ton of UU pokes that preform way crappier than Flareon, there's nothing BL about it, IMO.ShinySandslash said:
I brought Sudowoodo up as it was the first lesserly used Physical tank with a fire resist I could think of. Obviously I'm not going to switch Flareon in on Sudowoodo, that'd be about as smart as switching Mawile in on Magneton. I just tried to make a point of showing that even a physical tank with a fire resistance takes major damage versus Flareon, and thus is not a good counter.ShinySandslash said:
Now, please tell me which UU/NU pokes that can safely switch in on a Flareon carrying Shadow Ball, Hidden Power ground/fighting, Overheat and Return, without taking too much damage to be able to switch in again later in the battle. Don't forget that it often carries a CB.
You're assuming perfect conditions. That's like saying that Fearow should be OU because it's HP Ground does ~40% to a Golem. Well, said Golem isn't going to be switching in to Hidden Power. The Sudowoodo in your example is going to be switching into Return or Shadow Ball. You said yourself that this is a CB'er and you know how much prediction that requires. Just saying that Flareon is UU because pokemon beats pokemon with move is very unsubstantiated.
By the way, Relicanth fucks Flareon up.
By the way, Relicanth fucks Flareon up.
Of course I'm assuming perfect conditions; theorycraft can't be done otherwise. On the other hand, assuming that I won't predict while using a choice bander is silly. What you are saying is that Flareon is not good since if it gets outpredicted it does not kill stuff. And no, I did not say that it's a CBer, I mentioned the CB as an option. In fact, one of the more successful Flareon sets I've seen didn't have one. And if Sudowoodo, who is a defensive, physical tank, and resists his special attack, cannot switch in because he takes too much damage, I fear not many things can. The point of it requiring prediction is rather moot, since we have to assume that a battler who knows what he's doing is behind the wheel. Saying that a pokemon sucks because it is not good when an unskilled battler is using it is a pretty bad point to make, and by the same logic, CB-Mence sucks equally much.bluelightstar said:
And on the matter of Relicanth, yep, it stops the aforementioned set of 3 physicals + Overheat. But since Flareon has a very sexy special attack stat, one could just as well run HP grass over HP fighting/ground, as it will do almost as much damage to the average rock poke, and still deals with Relicanth, as well as Quagsire and other possible spoilsports.
My question still stands; What will you use to counter a Flareon, a non-CB one, in mid-late NU (and UU for that matter) game, assuming the user of it is not completely daft?
It sure looked like your question posed Choice Band.
If you think they're going to switch Sudowoodo into Flareon, you HP Fighting them. With a CB, they can't take another hit. Iron Tail over HP is another option that'll 2HKO without a CB.
The set I'd personally use is HP Fighting/Shadow Ball/Iron Tail/Overheat with a Choice Band, because a Fighting and a Ghost move already hits every type for normal damage. Granted you can predict, of course.
The set I'd personally use is HP Fighting/Shadow Ball/Iron Tail/Overheat with a Choice Band, because a Fighting and a Ghost move already hits every type for normal damage. Granted you can predict, of course.
flareon is too fucking slow to sweep unless your going enduresalac but every damned team in UU has quick attack so even in late game flareon will not sweep and flareon lacks power without cb. You do realise that a stab attack from fearow/kangaskhan/whatever does more than any attack that flareon can do and they are much much faster and have a better movepool. Also you probably wont be spending many EVs in special attack since it needs almost max spd and attack to even fuck something up at all and still the likes of golem and other beat the fuck out of you