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Metagame [Gen 9] Modern Gen 1
- Thread starter Copen
- Start date
I'll do an uber post soon because this metagame seems to be absolutely incredible but first I'd like to give my early thoughts on OU as the metagame went through three events that might have a big impact on the metagame, being:
1. Iron valiant ban
2. It was recently discovered that Steel Beam and its clones do not have any sort of recoil anymore, which is of course absolutely huge and has the potential to be metagame defining, especially since almost everything that gets Steel Beam also has a STAB on it.
3. The release of Walking Wake, Zoroark-Hisui, and Iron Leaves.
Some winners and losers:
(steels in general)
Kartana and Iron Treads both benefits from steel beam mechanics and a faster dominant fighting type being gone. Kartana was already a quite huge though underrated threat last gen back when steel beam still had recoil, and I don't think it's hard to see why it is most likely much better now. Genesect Shift Gear sets now have the potential to be a real problem, as it can complement its newfound 140 BP STAB move with its very colourful movepool, most notably Blaze Kick which is a crit move that gives it the ability to hit steels. I'm less sure if Magearna would make good use of steel beam, as Fleur Cannon has a generally better coverage at the cost of a reduced accuracy.
Steel beam on Corviknight is probably interesting, and Flame Charge Heatran might become a thing again. I think Melmetal will continue to run DIB for the paraflinch chance, although Steel Beam is noticeably stronger.
(Random example:
248 Atk Melmetal Steel Beam vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Gliscor: 166-196 (47 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
248 Atk Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Gliscor: 144-170 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- approx. 3HKO)
Valiant gone = dragons stocks go up. Garchomp and Latios are probably back being top tiers, like in gen8.
Archeops does appreciate a faster threat being gone and Kartana rising (as it can revenge kill that one mon with heat wave), however Garchomp is back, which is its main defensive answer, and the defeatist bird also preyed really hard on some slow bulky builds that were stacking Iron Valiant checks.
Other quick thoughts
New mons
I think Hisuian Zoroark sux : bad stabs backed up by a mediocre atk stat, I honestly don't see what this mon could even do in the metagame besides I guess outspeeding kartana and clicking flamethrower on it. Iron Leaves is the fusion of Virizion and Celebi and the mon somehow is worse than those two combined. Walking Wake however might very well be a huge threat, as water resists are not so common in MG1, and draco meteor clickers are always scary. The bulk and typing makes it really interesting defensively, as it resists Steel Beam and can decently switch into Victini. It hits hard, is quite fast, bulky, and has a good typing, both offensively and defensively speaking: what else could we possibly ask for?
Also, I changed my mind on protect: please nuke this thing. It brings really nothing good to the tier and almost all its applications are really dumb (lol). Maybe it's not broken or whatever but honestly I don't think we should keep it for the sake of good tiering policy or whatever : we are still just a niche format and I think it's fine for us to sometimes do decisions that are not totally guided by standard tiering policy. The tier will be more balanced, competitive and enjoyable with this move gone. Also yeah okay Protect Ninjask can also be used to scout stuff but that would absolutely not be a huge loss.
1. Iron valiant ban
2. It was recently discovered that Steel Beam and its clones do not have any sort of recoil anymore, which is of course absolutely huge and has the potential to be metagame defining, especially since almost everything that gets Steel Beam also has a STAB on it.
3. The release of Walking Wake, Zoroark-Hisui, and Iron Leaves.
Some winners and losers:
(steels in general)Kartana and Iron Treads both benefits from steel beam mechanics and a faster dominant fighting type being gone. Kartana was already a quite huge though underrated threat last gen back when steel beam still had recoil, and I don't think it's hard to see why it is most likely much better now. Genesect Shift Gear sets now have the potential to be a real problem, as it can complement its newfound 140 BP STAB move with its very colourful movepool, most notably Blaze Kick which is a crit move that gives it the ability to hit steels. I'm less sure if Magearna would make good use of steel beam, as Fleur Cannon has a generally better coverage at the cost of a reduced accuracy.
Steel beam on Corviknight is probably interesting, and Flame Charge Heatran might become a thing again. I think Melmetal will continue to run DIB for the paraflinch chance, although Steel Beam is noticeably stronger.
(Random example:
248 Atk Melmetal Steel Beam vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Gliscor: 166-196 (47 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
248 Atk Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Gliscor: 144-170 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- approx. 3HKO)
Valiant gone = dragons stocks go up. Garchomp and Latios are probably back being top tiers, like in gen8.
Archeops does appreciate a faster threat being gone and Kartana rising (as it can revenge kill that one mon with heat wave), however Garchomp is back, which is its main defensive answer, and the defeatist bird also preyed really hard on some slow bulky builds that were stacking Iron Valiant checks.
Other quick thoughts
New mons
I think Hisuian Zoroark sux : bad stabs backed up by a mediocre atk stat, I honestly don't see what this mon could even do in the metagame besides I guess outspeeding kartana and clicking flamethrower on it. Iron Leaves is the fusion of Virizion and Celebi and the mon somehow is worse than those two combined. Walking Wake however might very well be a huge threat, as water resists are not so common in MG1, and draco meteor clickers are always scary. The bulk and typing makes it really interesting defensively, as it resists Steel Beam and can decently switch into Victini. It hits hard, is quite fast, bulky, and has a good typing, both offensively and defensively speaking: what else could we possibly ask for?
Also, I changed my mind on protect: please nuke this thing. It brings really nothing good to the tier and almost all its applications are really dumb (lol). Maybe it's not broken or whatever but honestly I don't think we should keep it for the sake of good tiering policy or whatever : we are still just a niche format and I think it's fine for us to sometimes do decisions that are not totally guided by standard tiering policy. The tier will be more balanced, competitive and enjoyable with this move gone. Also yeah okay Protect Ninjask can also be used to scout stuff but that would absolutely not be a huge loss.
reasonings for the iron valiant ban are now posted. sorry for the delay. (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gen-9-modern-gen-1.3711533/post-9505741)
reminder that kartana does 30% minimum to basically the entire tier (resists included) with steel beam, plus the 19% crit chance, you really do not need to predict much with this mon.
have fun with the new metagame ~
reminder that kartana does 30% minimum to basically the entire tier (resists included) with steel beam, plus the 19% crit chance, you really do not need to predict much with this mon.
have fun with the new metagame ~
in relation to the discussion in above posts (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gen-9-modern-gen-1.3711533/post-9495078 and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gen-9-modern-gen-1.3711533/post-9495137), Protect and Detect have been banned from Modern Gen 1.
Copen: Do Not Ban
juoean: Ban
Diamond Diancie: Ban
individual council members may write additional reasonings later, which will be added to this post.
Copen: Do Not Ban
juoean: Ban
Diamond Diancie: Ban
individual council members may write additional reasonings later, which will be added to this post.
I think it would be wiser to wait to see if those two mons aren't actually broken first
They don’t, for mons past gen 1 they have a separate special attack and special defense stat. So therefore, latios is considered better due to hitting harder and latias’ extra bulk not being too useful for many interactions.
Hello mg1ers, with the release of Home, there are two exciting additions to the Modern Gen 1 metagame.
1) The release of 18 new FE mons, all of which will start in OU. Once the next VR is out, the ones not staying in OU will be able to be used in UU.
2) The freeing of Zygarde-50% by unanimous council vote. Have fun playing with your slugs.
Ceaseless Edge and Stone Axe are also disallowed from all MG1 tiers under Field Effect Clause. New VR will be out within the next few weeks. Have fun!
1) The release of 18 new FE mons, all of which will start in OU. Once the next VR is out, the ones not staying in OU will be able to be used in UU.
2) The freeing of Zygarde-50% by unanimous council vote. Have fun playing with your slugs.
Ceaseless Edge and Stone Axe are also disallowed from all MG1 tiers under Field Effect Clause. New VR will be out within the next few weeks. Have fun!
VR updated, enjoy the UU Melmetal!
Cobalion drops to UU
Cyclizar drops to UU
Dudunsparce drops to UU
Latias drops to UU
Melmetal drops to UU
Ninjask drops to UU
Arcanine-Hisui is now UU
Avalugg-Hisui is now UU
Basculegion-M is now UU
Basculegion-F is now UU
Decidueye-Hisui is now UU
Enamorus is now UU
Enamorus-Therian is now UU
Kleavor is now UU
Lilligant-Hisui is now UU
Overqwil is now UU
Samurott-Hisui is now UU
Typhlosion-Hisui is now UU
Wyrdeer is now UU
Zygarde-50% is now UU
Celebi rises to OU
Golisopod rises to OU
Great Tusk rises to OU
Landorus-Incarnate rises to OU
Electrode-Hisui is now OU
Goodra-Hisui is now OU
Sneasler is now OU
Ursaluna is now OU
Cobalion drops to UU
Cyclizar drops to UU
Dudunsparce drops to UU
Latias drops to UU
Melmetal drops to UU
Ninjask drops to UU
Arcanine-Hisui is now UU
Avalugg-Hisui is now UU
Basculegion-M is now UU
Basculegion-F is now UU
Decidueye-Hisui is now UU
Enamorus is now UU
Enamorus-Therian is now UU
Kleavor is now UU
Lilligant-Hisui is now UU
Overqwil is now UU
Samurott-Hisui is now UU
Typhlosion-Hisui is now UU
Wyrdeer is now UU
Zygarde-50% is now UU
Celebi rises to OU
Golisopod rises to OU
Great Tusk rises to OU
Landorus-Incarnate rises to OU
Electrode-Hisui is now OU
Goodra-Hisui is now OU
Sneasler is now OU
Ursaluna is now OU
Not sure if anyone is aware of this, but eternatus-eternamax is legal on the ladder for some reason??? xerneas-neutral is legal too apparently. pls fix my ladder experience is ruined
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1moderngen1-2005508741
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1moderngen1-2005508741
Fixed now dw
its UU, use treads instead (broke mon). council changed mechanics so steel beam does not do recoil damage idk why but makes melm unviable
You'd think DIB would make him better. bit sad