If mence, and chomp were so similar to Ono then all of there other various sets wouldn't seem so dominating.Mence and Chomp are very similar to Ononokusu. All three can boost their stats and lay waste to the opponent with powerful Outrages and Fire Blasts off very high Attack stats.
Versus Garchomp (SD / CB / CS sets), Ononokusu can Earthquake Bronzong and Rotom. It has a slightly higher Attack stat that is mostly overkill. It's also not quad-weak to Ice, which admittedly is nice. However, it's much frailer and doesn't resist Rock or Sandstorm. This makes it die a lot faster, and makes it a lot harder to set up. It's also five points slower, and a hell of a lot of important stuff sits in that range, notably Salamence, 100/100/100/100/100/100s and the Ground/Flying Genie (plus a handful of other likely top-tier pokes).
Versus Salamence (DD), Ononokusu hits a little bit harder (can I get a percentage on this?) and doesn't die to realy weak Ice Beams. It also isn't weak to Rocks. Instead, it doesn't get Intimidate, doesn't have a Ground immunity, doesn't have a Fighting resistance, and is considerably frailer. Overall Ononokusu is a LOT harder to set up. Moreover, it's slower; it can't tie with the massive group of +1 base 100s and gets beaten out by them - and Mence - before a DD.
Yes, we are probably going to put all of the pokemon (including Gen 4 Ubers) together, and playtest them to see which ones are overpowered. If they are found to be too powerful, then they will be sent to Uber, but not before then.So is mence and chomp allowed back from the ubers to this new metagame unless they are proven broken later on, I've seen people mentioning them, I'm not too sure.
That's completely true. But really, without its TM moves known, it's just not possible to see whether it will run Dragon/Ice or only Dragon or Ice.You're forgeting one key point though; Kyuremu has abase 130 stat in both offensive stats so it can also be used with a mixed set.
It does look to me that this will be the "grey" version mascot. Although I am curious to see if this could raise abomosnow's usage. Bit of a gimmack I know but the ice/dragon would have the most powerful blizzard in the game (joint with Glaceon) however ice beam may be powerful enough to KO the other dragons anyway.I'm feeling that Kyumeru will have some type of form in the future third version. A mere 660 stat total/two Ice type moves that can burn or paralyze and are decidedly powerful seem to hint at such.
I think you have it backwards. Most people are hyping this thing to a ridiculous degree. People are like, "It's the next uber!!!!!!!" Sure, it has that great attack stat, but when it utilizes stat boosting moves, it's more than likely inferior to Garchomp and Salamence. Let's compare base stats.My main issue is that we don't even know Ononokusu's full learnset so it seems VERY premature to be dismissing it as average when its stats are anything but.
It's like this thread has entered Trick Room conditions where Ononokusu is suddenly farfetch'd...lol
Basically, 'you shouldn't compare them because Ono is clearly worse but since you can't compare them it's still powerful'? Basically the point of the comparison was to probe that Ono is worse than Mence and Chomp, which it is. Unless they're banned it's likely to find its way into BL.If mence, and chomp were so similar to Ono then all of there other various sets wouldn't seem so dominating.
As far as chomp goes: Most of what you said showed that it's outclassed by chomp, and shouldn't be compared to him, not even in the least bit (even if he can DD, Outrage, and what not). Compared to chomp, yes, it is seriously outclassed.
As far as Mence goes: I would calc it up, but im too lazy at this point. Im sure it'll only factor in from maybe 10-15% depending on it's nature. It is indeed frailer then mence, but it's frailty isn't look others. At most, its average. Yes it is definitely slower (as it is to chomp, and Latias), but compared to other DD'ers it is marginly faster, and stronger. No it can't tie with the base 100+'s, but it can conversly get the job done in the lower tier by far.
My point is, your still comparing it to mence and chomp when your entire post just now showed that it shouldn't be placed in the same analyze as them (let alone latias as well). If anything, I care more about mences placement then any of the dragons, but dont rule Ono out when it comes to being a powerful dragon.
Why don't you do the same, then?I think you have it backwards. Most people are hyping this thing to a ridiculous degree. People are like, "It's the next uber!!!!!!!" Sure, it has that great attack stat, but when it utilizes stat boosting moves, it's more than likely inferior to Garchomp and Salamence. Let's compare base stats.
Garchomp: 108 / 130 / 95 / 80 / 85 / 102
Salamence: 95 / 135 / 80 / 110 / 80 / 100
Ononokusu: 76 / 147 / 90 / 60 / 70 / 97
That 97 base speed sucks. It needs 100 to be truly a great sweeper. It is too easily revenge killed by many threats. It lacks the bulk of Garchomp and the higher special attack of Salamence (which gives it a lot more unpredictability).
@ Upstart
Too fucking bad no one knows what it learns. It more than likely won't be able to learn Fire Punch so stop making stupid conclusions and use some solid reasoning why it's so great.
Who ever thought Ono was instant-Uber material isn't a very intelligent person in the first place.I think you have it backwards. Most people are hyping this thing to a ridiculous degree. People are like, "It's the next uber!!!!!!!" Sure, it has that great attack stat, but when it utilizes stat boosting moves, it's more than likely inferior to Garchomp and Salamence. Let's compare base stats.
Garchomp: 108 / 130 / 95 / 80 / 85 / 102
Salamence: 95 / 135 / 80 / 110 / 80 / 100
Ononokusu: 76 / 147 / 90 / 60 / 70 / 97
That 97 base speed sucks. It needs 100 to be truly a great sweeper. It is too easily revenge killed by many threats. It lacks the bulk of Garchomp and the higher special attack of Salamence (which gives it a lot more unpredictability).
If you aren't understanding that comparison then you obviously still aren't getting the point.Basically, 'you shouldn't compare them because Ono is clearly worse but since you can't compare them it's still powerful'? Basically the point of the comparison was to probe that Ono is worse than Mence and Chomp, which it is. Unless they're banned it's likely to find its way into BL.
Say hello to ScarfRachi, ScarfSazando, and many others. Speed is the most important stat in Pokemon. Also, compare it to Garchomp. Garchomp is a way better SDer because of its bulk (which is greater than that of Swampert) , its typing (both offensively and defensively), and its exceedingly important base speed.Why don't you do the same, then?
You're making "stupid conclusions" based solely on its shaky 97 speed.
I agree with you, Ononokusu is very strong, but a lot of people are way over estimating its potential.Who ever thought Ono was instant-Uber material isn't a very intelligent person in the first place.
And as your post states, and simply verifies my point this entire time, Ono shouldn't be classed at all in comparison to Chomp, and mence.
Not trying to overhype either, but the little devil is still strong, nuntheless. He should not be taken lighty and should not be compared to chomp or mence as an "inferior" version of them.
If you aren't understanding that comparison then you obviously still aren't getting the point.
No- it isn't a Mence, or Chomp. Compared to them it is outlassed.
Yes- Compared to OTHER DD'ers, and the like, he is still powerful.
So just because they'll be in the same tier your stating that the comparison is still viable? That's basically saying that you can still compare Mence, and Dragonite if they were in the same tier. Even though they were at one point, it's pretty obvious that neither one are alike in anyway.Ono only hits 6.5% harder than Mence. He's inferior to Mence and Chomp and if they're all in the same tier then a comparison is completely fair.
I hope Ono will be more PoryZ than Electivire (ie it will actually not be used and then end up in BL).
Yes, because if it gets Extremespeed and/or Superpower, or god forbid Close Combat, all of a sudden, your reasoning is completely pointless because it functions more like Dragonite.Say hello to ScarfRachi, ScarfSazando, and many others. Speed is the most important stat in Pokemon. Also, compare it to Garchomp. Garchomp is a way better SDer because of its bulk (which is greater than that of Swampert) , its typing (both offensively and defensively), and its exceedingly important base speed.
Salamence is a better DDer than Ononokusu because it hits an exceedingly important base speed (possibly the most competitive speed tier). Salamence also has a great special attack stat too, aiding to its unpredictability. Salamence can go physical, special, or mixed very easily. It can play many different roles too. It can be a sweeper, a wall breaker, a revenge killer, and even a tank.
Terrible reasoning, am I right. Completely based on that speed stat.
You are guilty of the same thing you're accusing others of.I think you have it backwards. Most people are hyping this thing to a ridiculous degree. People are like, "It's the next uber!!!!!!!" Sure, it has that great attack stat, but when it utilizes stat boosting moves, it's more than likely inferior to Garchomp and Salamence. Let's compare base stats.
Garchomp: 108 / 130 / 95 / 80 / 85 / 102
Salamence: 95 / 135 / 80 / 110 / 80 / 100
Ononokusu: 76 / 147 / 90 / 60 / 70 / 97
That 97 base speed sucks. It needs 100 to be truly a great sweeper. It is too easily revenge killed by many threats. It lacks the bulk of Garchomp and the higher special attack of Salamence (which gives it a lot more unpredictability).
@ Upstart
Too fucking bad no one knows what it learns. It more than likely won't be able to learn Fire Punch so stop making stupid conclusions and use some solid reasoning why it's so great. Guess what, Salamence can OHKO Skarmory with Fire Blast (provided that it can still learn it).
I don't know where to find its complete move pool. Move pool isn't really a good argument yet, since there are few sources that have that information. We still don't know Egg Moves, tutor moves, etc. This is the only move pool source I know of currently.Yes, because if it gets Extremespeed and/or Superpower, or god forbid Close Combat, all of a sudden, your reasoning is completely pointless because it functions more like Dragonite.
Where is its movepool anyway? Including move tutors. I can't find it.
Didn't bother to read more did you?Say hello to ScarfRachi, ScarfSazando, and many others. Speed is the most important stat in Pokemon. Also, compare it to Garchomp. Garchomp is a way better SDer because of its bulk (which is greater than that of Swampert) , its typing (both offensively and defensively), and its exceedingly important base speed.
Salamence is a better DDer than Ononokusu because it hits an exceedingly important base speed (possibly the most competitive speed tier). Salamence also has a great special attack stat too, aiding to its unpredictability. Salamence can go physical, special, or mixed very easily. It can play many different roles too. It can be a sweeper, a wall breaker, a revenge killer, and even a tank.
Terrible reasoning, am I right. Completely based on that speed stat.
Can Ono OHKO a 252/252 HP/Def Blissey with Earthquake then?The good thing about Superpower on DNite is that it can OHKO Blissey without Outraging on mixed sets; that's not really a concern for Ono and Superpower doesn't hit anything really that Mold Breaker EQ doesn't. If it gets ES I will eat my words though.