Lower Tiers DPP NU Viability Ranking

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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eh I just think Slowking is more replaceable, whereas Skuntank is in a league of its own. Entire teams can be invalidated due to a weakness to trapping, a phenomenon that's hardly unique to DPP NU, and Skuntank is just miles ahead of any other option in the tier.

Depending on the team you can often replace Slowking with a similar mon and may not even need to shift another mon to compensate for the change. I mean, notably, Regirock itself is such a good special sponge at this point too that Slowking has become less essential for checking fires, though obviously there's nothing wrong with running the two together so long as the rest of the team makes sense with it.

But there are teams where replacing Slowking with Politoed or Mantine will most definitely improve the team because the weakness to Skuntank is a problem. (Or frankly teams that forgo a water type at all, and just rely on Regirock.) It's a lot harder to think of teams that have a Skuntank on them that are improved by replacing the Skuntank.
I think a similar argument can be made about Regirock and I would also rate Regi above Slowking, though there at least have been phases in the past where Cradily was considered more on par with Regirock than it is today.
 

Oglemi

Borf
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Btw if someone wants the OP they're free to it, just have an roa mod give you the OP, I'm too out of the loop to make a decision on ranking placement
 

Honko

he of many honks
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Hypno should drop to B+ or B. It's basically a matchup pick now; if I think my opponent will use an offensive team without Skuntank, Hypno is still potentially a great choice, but otherwise it's just not worth it. The meta has too much Skuntank and too much Toxic nowadays for Hypno to be worthy of A.
I was one of the last couple people who still used Hypno somewhat regularly in NUPL/Classic matches, but I think what I said here is still accurate. It has terrible matchups against most of the current meta that make it really hard to justify. Another more recent thing working against it has been Medicham's drop in strength due to the rise in usage of Toxic+Protect, especially on Regirock, and of Ghost-types other than Haunter, which both mean it has a really hard time finding chances to use High Jump Kick. One of Hypno's biggest selling points was that it was one of very few true counters to Medicham (unlike Slowking who gets wrecked by Thunder Punch, and obviously unlike Lickilicky) while also countering a lot of special attackers. With most teams now just kind of soft-countering Medicham naturally, that selling point has mostly disappeared. I support Hypno dropping to B, and I also think Medicham should drop to A+.

I also agree entirely with Bughouse about Slowking being more replaceable than either Regirock or Skuntank, though I think those three are all very clearly S-rank material so it doesn't really matter.
 
RISES

12930773-AF13-4AEE-99DA-0B245331F23E.png
2333CA1E-A8AB-4332-9455-C83DFBBF12B5.png
C+→B+
they are very handy attackers. they can stop opponent's sweeper by fake out. their only shortcoming is walled by rock-types easily, but it is not so significant. also, they can be a good lead of crimate party with sunny or rain, taunt, u-turn.

DA21D856-1DDF-45DA-87CF-7D0A4A727655.png
C+→B+
recommend sets:flare blitz/sunny day/will-o-wisp/morning sun@heat rock
He is a great check of fire-types by fantastic ability of flash fire. also, he can cripple many physical attackers by will-o+morningsun. with the ability of check opponent's fire types, and great speed, he can be the greatest sunny day inducer in the tier, I think. the set above is very useful, so l recommend adding him to all sunny-parties.

865C6DBF-810F-40DC-A2E7-6D8007370A0E.png
C+→B+
he is a fantastic wall breaker with great psysical bulk and speed. After attacking, the opponent get a free-turn, so maybe threat like berrydrum lioone can be hell, that is shortcoming fore sure, so we should use him defensive party. even if so, we should not underestimate this 'monster'.

98A6CD91-D3E1-4ED7-AE14-920E239A1553.png
C→B+
Choice-band relicanth is one of the greatest wall breaker in the tier, I think. and rock polish+life orb relicanth is one of the greatest sweeper. also, with fantastic physical bulk and resistance to normal, he is a good counter to physical normals. he should not be underestimated.
0B6B600D-F9D8-4184-8202-503FADED55DF.png
C-→B
choice-scarf rampardos exspeeds tauros, so great as a fast normal-resist attacker. choice band is also good. he should be ranked higher.
FB420F00-4150-4BF0-B57F-C176ECDA793B.png
C→B-
He is great as a stealth-settler. he have a niche as a rock type that immune to earthquake, and not weak to hitmonchan, the most common spinuser, by powerful zen-headbutt. He also has the option sets such as rockpolish+batonpass, dual screen+explosion.

0F46A5EA-277A-478B-B3EF-AB8070FE43F1.png
C-→C+/B-
Girafarig is a great baton supporter. After reflect+lightscreen+agility+batonpass , many attacker( for exsample, marowak) goes hell.

08D7715D-08E6-4DB3-AAA4-166D7B510346.png
B→A-
A great defensive pokemon, great spin blocker. he can wall medicham and hitmonchan completely, and tauros, slaking as well. and the greatest thing is 'not weak to pursuit', unlike other ghost- and psychic-types. in fact, he is a only pokemon that can wall fighting-types and not weak to pursuit in this tier, i guess. He can be a good choice as a greatest fighting- and normal-types counter for many teams.
24827392-EE96-471D-B2AB-9EA5C80DBA7B.png
B-→B+
duskrops is as well a good spin blocker, with completely walling hitmonchan, so should be ranked higher.

C5177D77-8B7E-4F41-A271-ABB8CAF94ABB.png
C+→B
His toxic+sub set is very powerful and annoying, with fantastic special bulk and great recoverly of roost, powerful ice beam and super-annoying ability of pressure.

DROPS

15337EE9-E46B-4A01-847D-154E4317DF30.png
A-→B/B+
I think that he is inferior to tauros with less speed, less coverage (he can't touch rock- and steel-types) less bulk, more damage by stealth rock. His only good point compared to tauros is powerful brave bird, neutral damage to ghost. but only this thing can't rise him so much, I think.

33A1C923-E7A1-4912-98B5-92ED1CE96EC3.png
A→B+
I don't agree with gligar ranked so high. his niche is that strong to ground types, and can set up stealth rock, with blocking opponent's stealth rock with taunt, but thats all. we definitely can't say he is strong to fighting-types (hitmonchan usually curry ice punch), and he is weak to jynx, an major lead. B+ maybe suitable.

3FE7F71C-261F-4B0C-92D3-44AD9123363C.png
B+→B-
I can't understand rhydon's niche in this tier. as a rock type wall-breaker, relicanth or rampardos will be much better. He can't have significant role in this tier, because most electric- and fire- types carries HP grass. Golem is somewhat better, with sucher punch and explosion.

17709C11-3117-42F0-BBEA-6B5137027E9D.png
B+→B-/C+
Just fast ball. he is not so strong as a special attacher. He is not bad as a rain dance inducer, but at best 'not bad'. I think pokemon like skuntank is better as a rain dance inducer, because he can not only rain+explosion, but also damaging opponent's slowking (one of the solidest counter to rain-party) by pursuit.

DEC42F51-5FE4-49D0-B22B-2C8BC4BC0D61.png
A→A-/B+
I understand that hypno is good wish-supporter, but it is too weak of skuntank.
93A9C0B1-9F84-4CFC-9387-0BC8077D30EB.png
A→A-/B+
lickylicky is also a great wisher, but he has no resistance so he is difficult to counter someone, and weak to fighting-types, very common sweepers in this tier. Because most available stealth-rock-settlers in this tire weak to fighting types, adding one more weak-to-fighting supporter tend to be a bit difficult.
 

Attachments

Expulso

Morse code, if I'm talking I'm clicking
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Big VR update! After NUSD, Classic, and many of the more recent tours, Meri Berry thought it would be appropriate to organize a full overhaul. (I wrote reasonings so it was easier for me to post it, but thanks so much to her for taking the lead and organizing this!). The sheet can be found here.

Voters for this slate:
Ara
Beraldinho
Bughouse
Expulso
Heysup
HSOWA
LpZ


RISES:
:regirock: S- -> S
:slowking: S- -> S
:hitmonchan: A- -> A+
:drifblim: A- -> A+
:cradily: A- -> A
:Nidoqueen: A- -> A
:Vileplume: A- -> A
:Cacturne: B+ -> A
:Shiftry: B+ -> A-
:Venomoth: B+ -> A-
:Sharpedo: B -> A-
:Golem: B -> B+
:Dusclops: B- -> B+
:Linoone: B- -> B+
:Marowak: B- -> B
:Rapidash: C+ -> B
:Solrock: C -> B
:Articuno: C+ -> B-
:Ampharos: C -> B-
:Armaldo: C -> C+
:Relicanth: C -> C+
Regirock: S- -> S - Regirock was the most-used Pokemon in the recent NeverUsed Snake Draft. It is an incredible blanket check, able to set Rocks while trading with almost every Pokemon in the tier and packing a threatening Explosion. Resist (Chople/Shuca/Passho), Lum, and Custap berries are all usable, allowing it to cut off some of the few ways it can be shut down, while Lefties (especially with Protect) make Regirock stick around forever. Defensive Rock types are very important for top threats such as Charizard, Drifblim, and Tauros, and nothing does the job better than Regirock.

Slowking: S- -> S - Slowking also rises from S- to S. It is consistently top 3 in usage and simply does more than other defensive Water types. Its reliable recovery makes it much more durable than Politoed or Mantine, and it is able to annoy counterplay with moves like Thunder Wave, Signal Beam, or just Psychic (eliminating the great Grass-type Vileplume from its list of answers). Its weakness to Pursuit has been held against it in the past, but it can easily afford to run Physical defense investment and a Colbur Berry, making Pursuit bounce off. Its Surf 2HKOs non-bulky Skuntank, and most of the Pokemon that threaten it -- Magneton, Manectric, haunter and CB Tauros for instance -- fail to switch in directly.

Hitmonchan: A- -> A+ - Hitmonchan is able to do two roles very well. It can remove hazards with Rapid Spin, threatening all Stealth Rock setters with its powerful CC while also threatening to OHKO Drifblim and Haunter with a strong elemental punch. It can also provide Speed control through either Scarf of Life Orb Mach Punch. The Life Orb set has taken off in recent tours -- LO CC/Mach/TPunch/Ice Punch has no answers besides the ultra-passive Sableye and Dusclops. Its lack of direct switch-in opportunities and susceptibility to be worn down through recoil hold it back from S, though.

Drifblim: A- -> A+ - Drifblim has become one of the most popular win conditions in the tier. Sub / CM / Sball / HP Fighting or Ground is extremely difficult to answer long term, particularly since many diverse Pokemon can be paired up with Drifblim to weaken and/or eliminate Skuntank, letting it sweep with Unburden. Utility sets with Wisp and/or Rest are also quite usable, and it is one of the best spinblockers in the tier.

Cradily: A- -> A - It's really annoying to take down without Toxic, which isn't that common right now. It can outlast the things that pressure it (Hitmonchan/Medicham, offensive Charizard) pretty well.

Nidoqueen: A- -> A - Toxic Spikes have seen a rise in prominence with the rise in double-Skunk weak teams designed to eliminate it; the usually pair Nidoqueen with a defensive Ghost like Dusclops or utility Drifblim and slowly suffocate opposing teams ill prepared to handle long battles. There aren't many other Poisons that can absorb TSpikes either.

Vileplume: A- -> A - Sleep is super good and Plume is able to annoy p much any team due to the many great matchups its typing gives it. Covering for Slowking with it can be annoying due to the anti-synergies created by adding another Grass or Skuntank (another Poison), but it's worth it when u can do it.

Cacturne: B+ -> A - Spikes are really good -- good enough to offset the lack of Sucker caused by using this over Shiftry or Skunk -- and it hits hard.

Shiftry: B+ -> A- - LO Leaf Storm / Dpulse / Sucker / Explosion is p much guaranteed a kill in every game ever due to its raw power, but it doesn't do much for you defensively and is kind of a nuke. SD sets are also viable.

Venomoth: B+ -> A- - see above comments on sleep and tspikes

Sharpedo: B -> A- - One of the best leads in the tier due to its typing advantage against SR users and priority Aqua Jet / Rough Skin for other leads, Sharpedo is able to keep hazards off while preying on the increase in Slowking with its powerful Water/Dark coverage -- especially with an Ice Beam for Vileplume.

Lightning round...
Golem: B- -> B+ - Nice offensive Rock- and Ground-type who does generally similar things to Regirock but trades a lot of special bulk (and lack of quad weaknesses) for Rock Blast to break SubTox Zard's Sub.
Dusclops: B- -> B+ - Surprisingly hard to break without Toxic, like Cradily; great on TSpikes teams; one of the few answers to LO Chan
Linoone: B- -> B+ - yall know what linoone does, less haunter -> less usable answers once your rock type dies

Marowak: B- -> B - Offensive Grounds are good since Regirock is so common -- benefits from Slowking too because it is faster and can KO
Rapidash: C+ -> B - SubTox is good, faster than Charizard and thus wins that lead mu. Used by Heysup in one game this NUSD (though it got unlucky and didnt do as much as it could have)
Solrock: C -> B - Used in TR? Cant say i get this one tbh

Articuno: C+ -> B- - used in some semistalls / stalls by TDK/Staxi, such as this one (nusd - find better replay?)
Ampharos: C+ -> B- - Nice attacking lead that punishes teams who rely on Regirock as a soft check to electrics with a powerful Focus Blast. Here is an NUSD replay where Bughouse wielded it to insane success.

Armaldo / Relicanth also rose, good for them


DROPS:
:charizard: S -> S-
:Medicham: S- -> A
:Gardevoir: A+ -> A
:Haunter: A+ -> A
:Magmortar: A+ -> A-
:gligar: A -> B+
:lickilicky: A -> B+
:dodrio: A- -> B+
:hypno: A -> B
:ninetales: B+ -> B
:rhydon: B+ -> B
:Victreebel: B+ -> B-
:Lapras:, :Piloswine:, :Pinsir:, :Porygon2:, :Regice:, :Sableye: B -> B-
:Grumpig:, :Whiscash: B+ -> C+
:Gastrodon:, :Mantine: B- -> C+
:Misdreavus: B -> C
:Gabite:, :Golduck:, :Gorebyss:, :Machoke:, :Sneasel: B- -> C
:Crawdaunt:, :Diglett:, :Metang:, :Persian:, :Purugly:, :Roselia:, :Torkoal: C+ -> C
:Flareon: B- -> C-
:Electabuzz:, :Probopass:, :Raichu: C+ -> C-
:Mr. Mime:, :Raticate: C -> C-
Charizard: S -> S- - Still strong and useful af but removing is a little harder, the game is faster-paced, and the lead metagame has evolved to almost universally threaten lead Zard. It's a great mon but needs a little more support and good positioning than it did before.

Medicham: S- -> A - Medicham is generally les useful than Hitmonchan: the utility of Spin is superior to Medi's Trick and Mach Punch > Bullet Punch. It can hit extremely hard but is even more difficult to bring into battle. Locking into Psy move on Choiced sets is an additional unique difficulty it faces due to the omnipresence of Skunk -- it's still a good mon but just a bit harder to fit onto a team than its Fighting-type rival.

Gardevoir: A+ -> A - Skuntank is extremely good and Garde struggles to get past it. It's also slower than most other Scarfers which limits its upside. Trace is rly clutch and HWish, Wisp Colbur, others can do cool things but it is not an easy mon to fit.

Haunter: A+ -> A - Haunter can be rly good since LO HP Ground KOs non-fat Skuntank after Rocks, but it's incredibly frail, struggles to force things out 1v1 or switch into anything, and is usually limited to trades -- all traits we believe better describe an A-rank mon.

Magmortar: A+ -> A- - Rocks weak and kinda slow breaker with a high upside, esp on structures like Fire spam, but struggles to break past Slowking. Regirock gets difficult too since Focus Blast becomes v telegraphed. Today, it generally only comes onto field once and then usually requires lots of work to get a kill.

Gligar: A -> B+ - Gligar doesn't wall all that many relevant mons and doesn't do much back to anything. Fast Taunt is good and it effectively answers Electric-types that don't run Ice coverage, Scarf Fighting-types, etc., but it generally finds itself doing less damage back to the opponent than it takes -- and there's no shortage of special attackers to exploit this.

Lickilicky: A -> B+ - Curse and utility sets can be cool but struggle with hazards, fighting-types, rock-types, etc. Especially since mono-attacking is total setup bait for Ghosts, it struggles to justify a Cleric set of Wish+HBell. More offensive/win-con-y sets like Curse also find themselves stymied by Boom and the inability to run a mono attacker set.

Dodrio: A- -> B+ - It only got used once in the most recent DPP NU teamtour, so it could have dropped further honestly. However, its nice Speed and power makes the rankers wary to dismiss the possibility of Normal spam, with one or more Regirock lures, as an archetype in the future.

Hypno: A -> B - Jynx is not ultra-common and it faces competition from Slowking in the special wall slot. It also generally finds that the metagame is much more physically oriented than specially oriented, and special attackers can often hit it super effectively (Haunter, Drifblim, Shiftry) or Trick it (Manectric, Gardevoir).

Ninetales: B+ -> B - kind of a worse Magmortar and the same reasons that apply to its fall apply here

Rhydon: B+ -> B - To be honest I'm surprised by this drop, since I've seen Rhydon be a very successful offensive Ground -- here's a replay from NUSD week 1 where SD cleans up well. However,. perhaps people think it's on the same level as Golem/Marowak instead of above them.

Lightning round:</p><p>Victreebel: B+ -> B-
Lapras, Piloswine, Pinsir, Porygon2, Regice, Sableye: B -> B-
Grumpig, Whiscash: B+ -> C+
Gastrodon, Mantine: B- -> C+
Misdreavus: B -> C
Gabite, Golduck, Gorebyss, Machoke, Sneasel: B- -> C
Crawdaunt, Diglett, Metang, Persian, Purugly, Roselia, Torkoal: C+ -> C
Flareon: B- -> C-
El;ectabuzz, Probopass, Raichu: C+ -> C-
Mr. Mime, Raticate: C -> C-
 

Rabia

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GP & NU Leader
For the interested, I've compiled an updated VR OP based on the slate done two months ago. Something to keep in mind is the Final Rankings column of the slate document is inaccurate, so some of the C rank may be wrong. Fortunately, the more relevant Pokemon I was able to just reference Expulso's update post for. I was also told C- rank is just being nuked entirely, so there's that.

---

S Rank

S


:regirock: Regirock
:skuntank: Skuntank
:slowking: Slowking

S-

:charizard: Charizard
:tauros: Tauros

A Rank

A+


:drifblim: Drifblim
:hitmonchan: Hitmonchan
:jynx: Jynx

A

:cacturne: Cacturne
:cradily: Cradily
:gardevoir: Gardevoir
:haunter: Haunter
:manectric: Manectric
:medicham: Medicham
:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen
:sandslash: Sandslash
:vileplume: Vileplume

A-

:floatzel: Floatzel
:magmortar: Magmortar
:magneton: Magneton
:sharpedo: Sharpedo
:shiftry: Shiftry
:typhlosion: Typhlosion
:venomoth: Venomoth

B Rank

B+


:dodrio: Dodrio
:dusclops: Dusclops
:electrode: Electrode
:gligar: Gligar
:golem: Golem
:lickilicky: Lickilicky
:linoone: Linoone
:meganium: Meganium
:politoed: Politoed
:poliwrath: Poliwrath
:quagsire: Quagsire

B

:glalie: Glalie
:hypno: Hypno
:jumpluff: Jumpluff
:marowak: Marowak
:ninetales: Ninetales
:rapidash: Rapidash
:rhydon: Rhydon
:solrock: Solrock

B-

:ampharos: Ampharos
:articuno: Articuno
:camerupt: Camerupt
:lapras: Lapras
:muk: Muk
:piloswine: Piloswine
:pinsir: Pinsir
:porygon2: Porygon2
:regice: Regice
:sableye: Sableye
:victreebel: Victreebel

C Rank

C+


:armaldo: Armaldo
:gastrodon: Gastrodon
:grumpig: Grumpig
:mantine: Mantine
:relicanth: Relicanth
:slaking: Slaking
:whiscash: Whiscash

C

:banette: Banette
:crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:diglett: Diglett
:flareon: Flareon
:gabite: Gabite
:glaceon: Glaceon
:golduck: Golduck
:gorebyss: Gorebyss
:machoke: Machoke
:metang: Metang
:misdreavus: Misdreavus
:persian: Persian
:purugly: Purugly
:roselia: Roselia
:sneasel: Sneasel
:torkoal: Torkoal
:walrein: Walrein
:xatu: Xatu
 
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