Time for Ingrain Celesteela to make its debutGrassy Glide requires the user to be grounded for its effect, right? What's the point of giving it to Celesteela then? (Shaymin is at least grounded in its land forme)
Time for Ingrain Celesteela to make its debutGrassy Glide requires the user to be grounded for its effect, right? What's the point of giving it to Celesteela then? (Shaymin is at least grounded in its land forme)
Is it wrong that my first reaction was "that makes perfect sense, time to make a team about getting this to work"?Time for Ingrain Celesteela to make its debut
I feel like you really overrate the potency of Grassy Glide on users without Grassy Surge. We have yet to see any viable use of the move outside of Rillaboom and its prevos, and I don’t think users as strong as Kartana even will change that with how hard it is to keep terrain up consistently (not to mention the defensive weaknesses you stack trying to build a core like this). Most of the time it will just be a 70 BP physical grass attack with no other effects, which really isn’t worth the moveslot.mostly gonna go over which additions will be OU-relevant, with a little on other tiers I have some familiarity with
Gen 1
Dual Wingbeat, Meteor Beam
Dual Wingbeat, Rising Voltage
Burning Jealousy, Dual Wingbeat, Scorching Sands
Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot
Nice improvements. Aerodactyl and Dragonite finally have good Flying STAB with Dual Wingbeat. Their viability just skyrocketed. Dragonite also appreciates Scale Shot as a (imo) better option than Outrage. Zapdos becomes really strong under electric terrain, while Moltres has an option to hit Rock-types and Heatran now. Specs Moltres with Fire Blast, Hurricane, Scorching Sands, filler?
Gen 2
Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands
Burning Jealousy, Lash Out, Scorching Sands
Rising Voltage
Why did Fire-types benefit more from a new ground move being added than the Ground-types did? Lmao. Typhlosion finally has more coverage, while Houndoom's coverage improves. Neither are relevant to OU but they'll mess up RU and NU for sure. Rising Voltage is nice for Raikou, although it might end up outclassed by other electrics.
Gen 3
Grassy Glide, Scale Shot
Coaching, Grassy Glide
Poltergeist, Skitter Smack
Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot
Meteor Beam, Scale Shot
Expanding Force, Meteor Beam
Sceptile appreciates a strong STAB priority move, although it requires terrain, and Scale Shot is a good STAB option after it mega evolves. Breloom now has dual STAB priority off its base 130 attack. That's frightening. Mega Banette, despite its base 165 attack, never had a better STAB than Shadow Claw. Now it has an option that's 40 BP higher. Spicy. Base form Salamence, whether DD or Scarf, will be excellent with Dual Wingbeat. Scale Shot gives it a less punishable Dragon STAB as well, likewise with Rayquaza. Deoxys's access to Expanding Force makes Ubers psychic terrain teams sound terrifying.
Gen 4
Coaching, Scorching Sands
Scale Shot, Scorching Sands
Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands
:Giratina: Dual Wingbeat, Poltergeist
Not too much here. Infernape can make use of Scorching Sands on NP or mixed sets, while Magmortar adds ground coverage to its existing Fire/Electric/Fighting arsenal. Scale Shot is a good option for Garchomp, and it makes Mega Garchomp terrifying. Scorching Sands might be useful on bulky sets. Giratina can run a physical set now, I guess?
Gen 5
Expanding Force, Scorching Sands
Dual Wingbeat, Lash Out, Meteor Beam
Lash Out, Rising Voltage
Scorching Sands
Coaching, Expanding Force, Triple Axel
Pretty barren here as well. Victini appreciates more options for special or mixed sets, while Archeops gets a reliable Flying-type stab and a surprisingly decent Power Herb + Meteor Beam combo off its base 112 special attack. Thundurus, either in incarnate or therian form, might appear on electric terrain abuse teams thanks to its access to Rising Voltage and Nasty Plot. Lando-T with Ground-type Scald, enough said. Specs Meloetta with Expanding Force seems solid, and Triple Axel is excellent coverage for its piroette form. Sadly, the latter will probably be outclassed by Mega Lopunny. F in the chat for Alomomola, which didn't get access to Flip Turn.
Gen 6
Burning Jealousy, Expanding Force, Scorching Sands
Lash Out, Meteor Beam, Scale Shot
Meteor Beam
Dual Wingbeat, Lash Out
Scale Shot, Scorching Sands, Skitter Smack
Expanding Force, Lash Out, Poltergeist
Scorching Sands
These additions aren't going to make or break these mons, but they're decent options regardless. Delphox, which lacks Focus Blast for some reason, is just thrilled to have a way of hitting Heatran and Tyranitar. Expanding Force is decent. It still won't be OU viable. Tyrantrum will prefer Scale Shot over Outrage on choiced sets, and Aurorus can make for a decent breaker with Meteor Beam. Yveltal can run a purely physical set now, with Dual Wingbeat, Knock Off, U-Turn, and Sucker Punch. Zygarde, Hoopa, and Volcanion aren't too impacted by the new moves, but those moves are busted enough that they'll probably see niche usage.
Gen 7
Misty Explosion, Rising Voltage, Terrain Pulse
Expanding Force, Misty Explosion, Terrain Pulse
Grassy Glide, Misty Explosion, Terrain Pulse
Flip Turn, Misty Explosion, Terrain Pulse
Corrosive Gas, Meteor Beam
Rising Voltage
Grassy Glide
Expanding Force, Scorching Sands
Now we're talking. The Tapus and Ultra Beasts got plenty of new toys. Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele will probably be quickbanned due to the sheer power of their STABs, in addition to automatically buffing them via their terrain abilities. Tapu Bulu's Grassy Glide will be deadly as well. Tapu Fini... exists, I guess. Flip Turn is a nice pivoting option for it, while Misty Explosion is technically usable. Nihilego can use a powerful Meteor Beam to boost itself, while Xurkitree gets points for having the strongest Rising Voltage in the game. Tail Glow sets are unwallable. Who the fuck thought giving a strong STAB priority move to a mon with higher attack than Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza was a good idea??? Kartana will probably be quickbanned too. Blacephalon can use Scorching Sands on Specs sets to punish Tyranitar and Heatran.
Overall there are a lot of great changes here... and some very questionable ones. The power creep continues.
I agree. The reason I mentioned Grassy Glide on Sceptile, Breloom, and Kartana is the same as the reason I mentioned the new moves received by Zygarde, Hoopa, and Volcanion: good pokemon with new access to really good moves, although they can’t make good use of them generally.I feel like you really overrate the potency of Grassy Glide on users without Grassy Surge. We have yet to see any viable use of the move outside of Rillaboom and its prevos, and I don’t think users as strong as Kartana even will change that with how hard it is to keep terrain up consistently (not to mention the defensive weaknesses you stack trying to build a core like this). Most of the time it will just be a 70 BP physical grass attack with no other effects, which really isn’t worth the moveslot.
Probably a little, since Ingrain prevents switching, so to make the best use of Grassy Glide you'd also need Ingrain and Grassy Terrain on the same set.Is it wrong that my first reaction was "that makes perfect sense, time to make a team about getting this to work"?
Celesteela can't actually learn grassy terrian, so I was expecting to run this in a tier with Dynamax allowed (in addition to bringing a separate terrain setter).Probably a little, since Ingrain prevents switching, so to make the best use of Grassy Glide you'd also need Ingrain and Grassy Terrain on the same set.
That leaves you with one spare moveslot to cover a poor offensive type, non-stab move, ignoring the fact you just gave up the biggest selling point of Steel/Flying (Ground immunity). On the other hand Grassy Terrain weakens EQ, and between the Terrain and Ingrain you're recovering 1/8 of your health every turn, in addition to whatever your item gives you, which compliments Celesteela's excellent bulk.
So, it's got some major flaws, but you could do worse.
Ah yeah, I didn't check. Actually mildly surprised it can't learn it.Celesteela can't actually learn grassy terrian, so I was expecting to run this in a tier with Dynamax allowed (in addition to bringing a separate terrain setter).
Palkia (and Dialga) don't learn Cosmic Power according to leaks either. I guess it's the embodiment of all parts of space except outer space? Yeah... This is stupid. Rayquaza gets Meteor Beam and Cosmic Power, but not Palkia? Rayquaza isn't even from space, it's just really high in the sky! (I don't get why this is close enough. I blame flying into space in ORAS's Delta Episode and being know for fighting Deoxys, who's actually from space.)I thought Celesteela would get Meteor Beam because it's based off the Kaguya spaceship in Japanese folklore, and Palkia cause it LITERALLY CONTROLS SPACE, and what we've seen so far in this game, any Pokémon that are space themed or have space like properties got Meteor Beam, like Clefable, Lunatone, Solrock, and from this leak Rayquaza and Deoxys.
Palkia's....not that kind of space. It controls physical space. The concept of "space". Not space-as-in-meteorsI thought Celesteela would get Meteor Beam because it's based off the Kaguya spaceship in Japanese folklore, and Palkia cause it LITERALLY CONTROLS SPACE, and what we've seen so far in this game, any Pokémon that are space themed or have space like properties got Meteor Beam, like Clefable, Lunatone, Solrock, and from this leak Rayquaza and Deoxys.
why are you going over starters that are not coming?Gen 1
Dual Wingbeat, Meteor Beam
Dual Wingbeat, Rising Voltage
Burning Jealousy, Dual Wingbeat, Scorching Sands
Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot
Nice improvements. Aerodactyl and Dragonite finally have good Flying STAB with Dual Wingbeat. Their viability just skyrocketed. Dragonite also appreciates Scale Shot as a (imo) better option than Outrage. Zapdos becomes really strong under electric terrain, while Moltres has an option to hit Rock-types and Heatran now. Specs Moltres with Fire Blast, Hurricane, Scorching Sands, filler?
Gen 2
Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands
Burning Jealousy, Lash Out, Scorching Sands
Rising Voltage
Why did Fire-types benefit more from a new ground move being added than the Ground-types did? Lmao. Typhlosion finally has more coverage, while Houndoom's coverage improves. Neither are relevant to OU but they'll mess up RU and NU for sure. Rising Voltage is nice for Raikou, although it might end up outclassed by other electrics.
Gen 3
Grassy Glide, Scale Shot
Coaching, Grassy Glide
Poltergeist, Skitter Smack
Dual Wingbeat, Scale Shot
Meteor Beam, Scale Shot
Expanding Force, Meteor Beam
Sceptile appreciates a strong STAB priority move, although it requires terrain, and Scale Shot is a good STAB option after it mega evolves. Breloom now has dual STAB priority off its base 130 attack. That's frightening. Mega Banette, despite its base 165 attack, never had a better STAB than Shadow Claw. Now it has an option that's 40 BP higher. Spicy. Base form Salamence, whether DD or Scarf, will be excellent with Dual Wingbeat. Scale Shot gives it a less punishable Dragon STAB as well, likewise with Rayquaza. Deoxys's access to Expanding Force makes Ubers psychic terrain teams sound terrifying.
Gen 4
Coaching, Scorching Sands
Scale Shot, Scorching Sands
Burning Jealousy, Scorching Sands
:Giratina: Dual Wingbeat, Poltergeist
Not too much here. Infernape can make use of Scorching Sands on NP or mixed sets, while Magmortar adds ground coverage to its existing Fire/Electric/Fighting arsenal. Scale Shot is a good option for Garchomp, and it makes Mega Garchomp terrifying. Scorching Sands might be useful on bulky sets. Giratina can run a physical set now, I guess?
Gen 5
Expanding Force, Scorching Sands
Dual Wingbeat, Lash Out, Meteor Beam
Lash Out, Rising Voltage
Scorching Sands
Coaching, Expanding Force, Triple Axel
Pretty barren here as well. Victini appreciates more options for special or mixed sets, while Archeops gets a reliable Flying-type stab and a surprisingly decent Power Herb + Meteor Beam combo off its base 112 special attack. Thundurus, either in incarnate or therian form, might appear on electric terrain abuse teams thanks to its access to Rising Voltage and Nasty Plot. Lando-T with Ground-type Scald, enough said. Specs Meloetta with Expanding Force seems solid, and Triple Axel is excellent coverage for its piroette form. Sadly, the latter will probably be outclassed by Mega Lopunny. F in the chat for Alomomola, which didn't get access to Flip Turn.
Gen 6
Burning Jealousy, Expanding Force, Scorching Sands
Lash Out, Meteor Beam, Scale Shot
Meteor Beam
Dual Wingbeat, Lash Out
Scale Shot, Scorching Sands, Skitter Smack
Expanding Force, Lash Out, Poltergeist
Scorching Sands
These additions aren't going to make or break these mons, but they're decent options regardless. Delphox, which lacks Focus Blast for some reason, is just thrilled to have a way of hitting Heatran and Tyranitar. Expanding Force is decent. It still won't be OU viable. Tyrantrum will prefer Scale Shot over Outrage on choiced sets, and Aurorus can make for a decent breaker with Meteor Beam. Yveltal can run a purely physical set now, with Dual Wingbeat, Knock Off, U-Turn, and Sucker Punch. Zygarde, Hoopa, and Volcanion aren't too impacted by the new moves, but those moves are busted enough that they'll probably see niche usage.
Gen 7
Misty Explosion, Rising Voltage, Terrain Pulse
Expanding Force, Misty Explosion, Terrain Pulse
Grassy Glide, Misty Explosion, Terrain Pulse
Flip Turn, Misty Explosion, Terrain Pulse
Corrosive Gas, Meteor Beam
Rising Voltage
Grassy Glide
Expanding Force, Scorching Sands
Now we're talking. The Tapus and Ultra Beasts got plenty of new toys. Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele will probably be quickbanned due to the sheer power of their STABs, in addition to automatically buffing them via their terrain abilities. Tapu Bulu's Grassy Glide will be deadly as well. Tapu Fini... exists, I guess. Flip Turn is a nice pivoting option for it, while Misty Explosion is technically usable. Nihilego can use a powerful Meteor Beam to boost itself, while Xurkitree gets points for having the strongest Rising Voltage in the game. Tail Glow sets are unwallable. Who the fuck thought giving a strong STAB priority move to a mon with higher attack than Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza was a good idea??? Kartana will probably be quickbanned too. Blacephalon can use Scorching Sands on Specs sets to punish Tyranitar and Heatran.
It's just for generalizationwhy are you going over starters that are not coming?
I covered everything that I considered noteworthy or at least interesting because it may be relevant in future games/gens. It might affect NatDex OU right now, but I wouldn’t know since I don’t play it.why are you going over starters that are not coming?
I think the main issue is that both Blaziken (for now) isn't coming back, and datamine is not used in Natdex since 1) it's datamine 2) it's not 100% reliable as GF shown they can change their mind before releasing (see HH azumarill, oh that'd have broken stuff...)I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about Specially offensive Blaziken. With Aura Sphere and Scorching Sands, it's now a viable specially offensive fighting type, which are few and far between. Sure, Physical sets will probably still be the standard with things like HJK and Flare Blitz, but Specially offensive Blaziken has potent fire STAB in Overheat/Fire Blast, a rare fighting STAB that's not Focus Blast, and a great coverage move. It even also gets U-Turn now, which could fill the fourth move slot.
Blaziken getting Scorching Sands isn't out of the question considering all the Fire-type starters currently in the game get it and considering the other moves, yeah I can see Close Combat and U-turn being legit additionsI think the main issue is that both Blaziken (for now) isn't coming back, and datamine is not used in Natdex since 1) it's datamine 2) it's not 100% reliable as GF shown they can change their mind before releasing (see HH azumarill, oh that'd have broken stuff...)
Overally outside of occasional speculation, there's little to theorycraft about those movesets until they actually show up in game.
I mean, I'm not questioning that it's getting those specific moves, I just say that there's always a chance they don't happen which is why people aren't really theorycrafting on the new tutors or TM learnset as muchBlaziken getting Scorching Sands isn't out of the question considering all the Fire-type starters currently in the game get it and considering the other moves, yeah I can see Close Combat and U-turn being legit additions
For the most part all of the moves that Pokémon got in the datamine they ended up getting in Isle of Armour. The only exceptions were like Azumarill and Politoed. Politoed was shown to get Ally Switch but it didn't get it in the endI mean, I'm not questioning that it's getting those specific moves, I just say that there's always a chance they don't happen which is why people aren't really theorycrafting on the new tutors or TM learnset as much
There's also some inconsistencies with the Tutor reveal (someone mentioned Triple Axel Tsareena being missing for example).For the most part all of the moves that Pokémon got in the datamine they ended up getting in Isle of Armour. The only exceptions were like Azumarill and Politoed. Politoed was shown to get Ally Switch but it didn't get it in the end
... Blaziken... is coming back, though? According to this very same datamine I believe???I think the main issue is that both Blaziken (for now) isn't coming back, and datamine is not used in Natdex since 1) it's datamine 2) it's not 100% reliable as GF shown they can change their mind before releasing (see HH azumarill, oh that'd have broken stuff...)
Overally outside of occasional speculation, there's little to theorycraft about those movesets until they actually show up in game.
Well, you are right I suppose, and I am indeed dumb for not checking.... Blaziken... is coming back, though? According to this very same datamine I believe???