Crisis in CK9++ City [Serial Killer Wins]

[HeaLnDeaL]

I don't even know what half the stuff you are saying means. wut is ootc? wut is nsm?

And like you can sit there and say "if jalmont applies himself he could be good" and I'd probably even agree with that. But that's just speaking a completely different language than what I'm saying. I'm saying time and time again, jalmont does not apply himself. He didn't this game, he didn't the last game I was with him, I don't think he'd have the willingness to play with investment if he rolled SK. Endgame town jalmont is fairly capable, I have seen that much, but my understanding of him is that he only tries hard if he feels super confident, and more often than not he doesn't feel that way and just doesn't do much of anything.

 

[smogon account]

I don't even know what half the stuff you are saying means. wut is ootc? wut is nsm?

And like you can sit there and say "if jalmont applies himself he could be good" and I'd probably even agree with that. But that's just speaking a completely different language than what I'm saying. I'm saying time and time again, jalmont does not apply himself. He didn't this game, he didn't the last game I was with him, I don't think he'd have the willingness to play with investment if he rolled SK. Endgame town jalmont is fairly capable, I have seen that much, but my understanding of him is that he only tries hard if he feels super confident, and more often than not he doesn't feel that way and just doesn't do much of anything.

the very nature of the question means we have to look at the potential that exists to begin with
if the question was "pretend it's day 1, who's playing the best SK game?" then the answer changes dramatically imo
but that isn't the question, so dismissing someone even tho you say yourself he has the potential that needs to exist seems wrong to me


ootc=out of thread communication, nsm=ninsheetmusic, my first mafia forum

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

the very nature of the question means we have to look at the potential that exists to begin with
if the question was "pretend it's day 1, who's playing the best SK game?" then the answer changes dramatically imo
but that isn't the question, so dismissing someone even tho you say yourself he has the potential that needs to exist seems wrong to me


ootc=out of thread communication, nsm=ninsheetmusic, my first mafia forum

I think someone like Fenrir just has more potential to pull off the SK game, he seems to know when to contribute and when to back down more compared to jalmont. Cancerous's role playing is something that happens in a lot of their games, so I feel like he has an established persona that he can lean into if necessary. Even in your out-of-smogon-example, you said jalmont was "aggressive" town leader, which doesn't to me sound like a good trait for an SK either. I don't think the way you're answering panic's question is necessarily the same way he asked it.

The way I am thinking about it is imagining that we simulate 130 games (and at the start of each new simulation, we all lose memories of the previous simulations) with this format and the same playerbase, where each player gets to play SK 10 times. Who would win the most as SK, and of the SK winners who could have the least-detected game, or the most perfect game?

I think TBZ is thrown out of contention because I don't see him winning any games as SK, jalmont I see winning most likely 1 maybe 2 but I don't see either of them being a very perfect game and I see his win or wins only happening through being suspected a lot along the way, with him having a lot of votes along the way. Cancerous I don't see winning more than 2 or 3 games but I see at least one of them having everyone just fooled by his roleplaying "because that's how he plays" resulting in a pretty perfect game. I think you (smogon) prolly have the highest number of wins simply because you're good at being active, acting towny, and keeping a calm tone even under pressure. Fenrir I think loses a lot of his games, but if he wins, I can very well see it being undetected. And again, no offense to panic, but I don't see him getting through any of his 10 SK games undetected and I think the only way he wins as SK is if hehas an ending where no one is confirmed town. If we put jalmont aside for now, I'm really surprised you said panic could pull off a perfect SK game (again, no offense to panic, I'm just answering your own question how I see it.)

 

[Panic Station]

Okay, let's get down to brass tacks. The reason I asked you that question about the perfect SK game is because I don't believe any of us could pull off the perfect SK game. Perfection comes at least partially through experience and SK is a rarely used role. In a game where parity is the bottom line, most people aren't prepared or practiced enough to think of how to be the last one standing.

So an SK won't be perfect. They'll make mistakes, maybe something as simple as trying to pass off a contradiction as a joke. Or as obvious in hindsight as ignoring one's own scumreads to jump onto a null read or bounce votes around.

Or thinking they can rely on an F3 containing oneself and two players who have Townread them since D1. The best counter to WiFoM is to cut through it with Occam's Razor. Between a player who never made it into my Towncore and a player I've had firmly in my Towncore, I know who benefits more from having me here as the tiebreaker.

So this is my conclusion. Right or wrong, I have no regrets.

Vote: smogon account

 

[CaffeineBoost]

Now announcing the current votecount:
smogon account [1] - Panic Station

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

vote smogon account

 

[CaffeineBoost]

Hammer.

 

[CaffeineBoost]

With a majority of two, you have decided to lynch smogon account.
Unfortunately, he's not the only one to die as a result of this choice.
I can now reveal that the winner of this game, was the Serial Killer, HeaLnDeaL.
Here are the Role PM's:

The victor: HeaLnDeaL

• Welcome, HeaLnDeaL. You are a Serial Killer.

Abilities:

• During pre-game, you must choose between being either Investigation Immunity AND 1-Shot Bulletproof OR Ninja AND Strongman kills.
• Each night phase, you may target another player in the game to attempt to kill them.
• You have access to a PT here that you may speak in at any time.

Win condition:

• You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Panic Station

• Welcome, Panic Station, you are a Town Mason along with your partner somitomi.

Abilities:

• You, all know each other to be Town. Pre-game and during the night, you may talk to them here.

Win condition:

• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

smogon account

• Welcome, smogon account, you are a Vanilla Townie.

Abilities:

• You have no special abilities apart from your voice and your vote.

Win condition:

• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Plaudite, acta est fabula.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Panic and smogon, I am so sorry T_T

I picked strongman with the goal of nightkilling apricity night 1 and then my plan was to side with whatever faction he didn't flip as. When he subbed out day 1, I decided to be town for the first two days never imagining that I could ever win.Day 3 is when I started seeing a sliver of a pathway going forward, but I thought that meant working with scum for a bit, but scum was lynched before I could do that so it was this weird thing of thinking I'd die at any second but trying to just understand the format and to do my best.

Again, I'm sorry x.x

 

[Panic Station]

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

I chose to kill heury over panic on the last night because I wanted to get into a WIFOM battle, and because I thought heury would view us playing secret hitler as pocketing (even though he was the one who asked to play with me in this thread) and I didn't want to have to spend the last day lying to heury T_T

 

[Clarinet]

well done, Heal

still wanted for heury or Panic to win because they were town's heroes

but as with all games, the winner takes it all

 

[Cancerous]

Gg wp
I'm ready to accept my MVP award now.

Shout out my good friend hal for letting me have a slot.

 

[smogon account]

Really?
Occams razor makes you vote the guy who sounded towny for three days straight?

 

[smogon account]

maybe something as simple as trying to pass off a contradiction as a joke

Oh my gosh
You thought I wasn't joking? Wow I'm mad

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

smogon, panic, pls don't fight, I love you both and want the three of us to be on the same team in future games ;-;

 

[Panic Station]

Really?
Occams razor makes you vote the guy who sounded towny for three days straight?

The post-scum NKs seemed to favor you more than Heal. Someone stabbed through Heury to get to Crabbo after he cased you.

 

[smogon account]

The post-scum NKs seemed to favor you more than Heal. Someone stabbed through Heury to get to Crabbo after he cased you.

He immediately removed his case on me since he misinterpreted something
his whole thing on me taking credit for jalmont flipping town was based on a joke too
And that was predicated on me being partners with heury to begin with
your timeline must have got screwed up while looking at bookmarks :p

 

[smogon account]

you did the complete opposite of occams razor here rofl

 

[heuryalone]

Gg. Hard to win as sk. I dont care if you like to me heal. All a part of the game!

 

[shubaka17]

heal you absolute madman, way to play

 

[JALMONT]

Really?
Occams razor makes you vote the guy who sounded towny for three days straight?

while i think you were given no favors the last day, i feel like you needed to focus more on day 1 and contrast your play with heal's. focusing on what role you would've taken as SK (doubtful anyone would really read into that) + spending all that time on a braindead question that had nothing to do with the game let heal muddy the waters (him accusing you of not knowing the setup comes to mind) and avoid discussing the actual facts about ur gameplay.

def sympathize with you though, i'm not really sure what to do when you have someone who doesn't talk about the game lol.

 

[smogon account]

while i think you were given no favors the last day, i feel like you needed to focus more on day 1 and contrast your play with heal's. focusing on what role you would've taken as SK (doubtful anyone would really read into that) + spending all that time on a braindead question that had nothing to do with the game let heal muddy the waters (him accusing you of not knowing the setup comes to mind) and avoid discussing the actual facts about ur gameplay.

def sympathize with you though, i'm not really sure what to do when you have someone who doesn't talk about the game lol.

I think focusing on "how does smogon account play out this game as sk" was pretty frowned upon by the guy I needed to convince here unfortunately
we should have lynched heal first tbz second imo

idk if I mentioned this but "how am I supposed to prove I'm town rofl" really struck me as flailing town

 

[JALMONT]

I think focusing on "how does smogon account play out this game as sk" was pretty frowned upon by the guy I needed to convince here unfortunately
we should have lynched heal first tbz second imo

idk if I mentioned this but "how am I supposed to prove I'm town rofl" really struck me as flailing town

to re-word then i meant not how do you play this game as SK but how does an SK play in general and how you don't fit that general mold/how heal does. idk if that really is a big difference but i think framing the discussion as "I am town" works better then "i am not SK because i wouldn't have done x,y, and z" which is more dubious and easier to see through. i feel like the key point in your favor was that the way you played day 1 would've been an extremely risky strategy in general for an SK to play vs the mold that heal played. to me that was the biggest difference in behavior/play that didn't necessarily stand out immediately from the last day discussion.

but ultimately yeah i mean there's really nothing you can do when the person making the decision isn't especially interested in having a conversation and laying the cards out on the table. i dunno, maybe you should've shit on me and tbz some more. that might've been a winning strategy

 

[smogon account]

how you don't fit that general mold/how heal does.

when I did my reread I tried to look at heal's play but I really couldn't poke anything in it
the only real difference was how invested I was in who the lynch actually fell on, whereas heal was mostly fine with everything which I did point out once, but maybe I should have come back to it more often

heal should have died just cause of how lukewarm his posts today were compared to mine tho lol