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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Counter That Pokemon! Won By FlareBlitz (Team 2)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
- Status
ACTUALLY FLAREBLITZ
fwg too sexy
fwg too sexy
kd24
Heracross (any variant) is essentially worthless in relation to Roserade and Omastar at this point (maybe not later, but at least for now). It doesn't break through any counters except for Chansey who is a) probably not going to be on the other team (I'll lose faith in this thread if it ends up on either team tbh) and b) can be dealt with later if it indeed is actually on the other team. In fact, it shares a shit load of counters with Roserade in particular - one that's already on the team! It gets swept by the exact same common Pokemon as well (ie Zapdos, Raikou, Tornadus etc).
Scarf Pokemon are also slightly ridiculous to be adding because their biggest use is going to be as a revenge killer against various sweepers which the opponent may not even have yet. It would be FAR better off to add something that actually threatens team 2 and has room to switch in based on the Pokemon that are certainly on the team. At best, it will become a sweeper but why not pick those to be our last Pokemon because then we can tell which Pokemon can sweep the opposing team easiest.
Arcanine loses Ground immunity, making Rotom-H a superior option...but the only Rotom-H is Scarfed which is a waste of space atm. At least Arcanine has ExtremeSpeed and is very versatile, can switch in on one of the Pokemon and finish off the other with priority. I wish someone submitted Zapdos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So even though I'm basically obstaining at this point, I'll throw in my vote for Scoopapa in case people see this and change their minds / vote for Scoopapa before the day is over.
Scarf Pokemon are also slightly ridiculous to be adding because their biggest use is going to be as a revenge killer against various sweepers which the opponent may not even have yet. It would be FAR better off to add something that actually threatens team 2 and has room to switch in based on the Pokemon that are certainly on the team. At best, it will become a sweeper but why not pick those to be our last Pokemon because then we can tell which Pokemon can sweep the opposing team easiest.
Arcanine loses Ground immunity, making Rotom-H a superior option...but the only Rotom-H is Scarfed which is a waste of space atm. At least Arcanine has ExtremeSpeed and is very versatile, can switch in on one of the Pokemon and finish off the other with priority. I wish someone submitted Zapdos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So even though I'm basically obstaining at this point, I'll throw in my vote for Scoopapa in case people see this and change their minds / vote for Scoopapa before the day is over.
Fatty
scoopapa
arcanine was the first mon that came to mind after voting for omastar. i agree that heracross was a close second but the SD set doesn't take care of super fast mons like alakazam and raikou and the scarf set can be too easily abused by mons that also effectively deal with rose/omastar.
rotom-h's only advantage over arcanine imo is the ability to trick its counters, but its lack of versatility and power really steers me away from voting for it.
arcanine was the first mon that came to mind after voting for omastar. i agree that heracross was a close second but the SD set doesn't take care of super fast mons like alakazam and raikou and the scarf set can be too easily abused by mons that also effectively deal with rose/omastar.
rotom-h's only advantage over arcanine imo is the ability to trick its counters, but its lack of versatility and power really steers me away from voting for it.
the fat one wins the poll
Heracross (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
Team 2 time let's do it up!
Heracross (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
Team 2 time let's do it up!
team 1 has an awful speed weakness, so its time for our first full out sweeper to take advantage of this:
Houndoom @ Life Orb
Hasty
80 Atk / 212 SpA / 216 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power Grass
outspeeds and ohkos everything on team 1, and puts them in a bad position because sucker punch can ko 2 of the premiere revenges they likely want - zam or dugtrio
this is a solid pokemon thats going to force team 1 to change their entire team style, giving oma less chance to set up really. (and yes, doom doesnt really counter hera but in a sense he does, considering once he gets in, the way it is now, team 1 loses)
Houndoom @ Life Orb
Hasty
80 Atk / 212 SpA / 216 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power Grass
outspeeds and ohkos everything on team 1, and puts them in a bad position because sucker punch can ko 2 of the premiere revenges they likely want - zam or dugtrio
this is a solid pokemon thats going to force team 1 to change their entire team style, giving oma less chance to set up really. (and yes, doom doesnt really counter hera but in a sense he does, considering once he gets in, the way it is now, team 1 loses)
Chris Redfield: Time for a new challenge!!
Porygon-Z @ Choice scarf
Ability: Adaptability
252 SpAtk/4 Def/252 Spe
Timid(-Atk/+Spe)
-Tri Attack
-Ice beam/Dark Pulse
-Thunderbolt
-Trick/Dark Pulse
Team 1 already looks like it has a problem with choice scarfers and P-Z seems like a good canditate for a scarfer...The one thing I was looking up was what can outpseed omastar after a shell smah and pretty much any choice scarf poke with a 90 base speed...The nice thing about P-Z is that it doesnt leave much opening for team 1 to set up.. also Omastar can't set up shell smash as a revenge killer,
Timid Choice Scarf P-Z Tri-Attack does 42.6% - 50.4% to omastar assuming it did NOT get the +1 boost from download, which it probably wont get because of the amount of pokes with a higher spDef. Which makes me question if Adaptability should be used over Download?
Thunderbolt is there in case it already got the opportunity to shell smash or just want the immediate kill on omastar..
Ice beam is for roserade, but I'm in question of whether dark pulse should be replaced over it for future ghost team 2 might have..
I see Team 1 adding a special wall or just snorlax on their team so that's what Trick is used for
EDIT: chose Adaptability because Adaptability allows P-Z to potentially OHKO heracross and roserade...
Adaptability Tri-Attack Vs. Heracross 93.4% - 109.9%
Adaptability Tri-Attack Vs. Roserade 99.2% - 116.8%
Porygon-Z @ Choice scarf
Ability: Adaptability
252 SpAtk/4 Def/252 Spe
Timid(-Atk/+Spe)
-Tri Attack
-Ice beam/Dark Pulse
-Thunderbolt
-Trick/Dark Pulse
Team 1 already looks like it has a problem with choice scarfers and P-Z seems like a good canditate for a scarfer...The one thing I was looking up was what can outpseed omastar after a shell smah and pretty much any choice scarf poke with a 90 base speed...The nice thing about P-Z is that it doesnt leave much opening for team 1 to set up.. also Omastar can't set up shell smash as a revenge killer,
Timid Choice Scarf P-Z Tri-Attack does 42.6% - 50.4% to omastar assuming it did NOT get the +1 boost from download, which it probably wont get because of the amount of pokes with a higher spDef. Which makes me question if Adaptability should be used over Download?
Thunderbolt is there in case it already got the opportunity to shell smash or just want the immediate kill on omastar..
Ice beam is for roserade, but I'm in question of whether dark pulse should be replaced over it for future ghost team 2 might have..
I see Team 1 adding a special wall or just snorlax on their team so that's what Trick is used for
EDIT: chose Adaptability because Adaptability allows P-Z to potentially OHKO heracross and roserade...
Adaptability Tri-Attack Vs. Heracross 93.4% - 109.9%
Adaptability Tri-Attack Vs. Roserade 99.2% - 116.8%
Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
252 SpA/4 Def/252 Spd
Timid
-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball
-Substitute
Heracross being gives team 2 the opportunity to go on the offensive because Crobat already has him covered. We should take this opportunity to send in a heavy hitter, and who better than Alakazam. Team one currently completely loses to Alakazam as it is. Having 3 Pokemon that flat out loses to Alakazam just using Psychic is a mistake but it also means that team 1 needs to carry some sort of counter. This is ideal because those counters are very specific, easily passable, and are pretty terrible against the Pokemon team 2 currently carries - not to mention ones we can add in to exploit their existence on team 1.
Psychic OHKOes Roserade, Heracross, AND Omastar (94% minimum). The coverage moves are just put there to prevent plausible switch-ins and forcing people to use less useful checks.
Other LO/etc heavy hitters / sweepers:
They are simply inferior. We have an opportunity to bring something without plausible counters into the game that currently destroys team 1. Sure, other Pokemon do that, but none do it better and none are harder to deal with.
Scarfers:
As I said before, no point in revenge killing what can't really set up in the first place. If there is a threat that needs to be dealt with added, then of course a Scarf revenge killer is a perfect candidate, but why waste our slot on it now when there could be an easy addition that simply bypasses the specific scarfer in future slots. Makes utterly no sense at all.
Ability: Magic Guard
252 SpA/4 Def/252 Spd
Timid
-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball
-Substitute
Heracross being gives team 2 the opportunity to go on the offensive because Crobat already has him covered. We should take this opportunity to send in a heavy hitter, and who better than Alakazam. Team one currently completely loses to Alakazam as it is. Having 3 Pokemon that flat out loses to Alakazam just using Psychic is a mistake but it also means that team 1 needs to carry some sort of counter. This is ideal because those counters are very specific, easily passable, and are pretty terrible against the Pokemon team 2 currently carries - not to mention ones we can add in to exploit their existence on team 1.
Psychic OHKOes Roserade, Heracross, AND Omastar (94% minimum). The coverage moves are just put there to prevent plausible switch-ins and forcing people to use less useful checks.
Other LO/etc heavy hitters / sweepers:
They are simply inferior. We have an opportunity to bring something without plausible counters into the game that currently destroys team 1. Sure, other Pokemon do that, but none do it better and none are harder to deal with.
Scarfers:
As I said before, no point in revenge killing what can't really set up in the first place. If there is a threat that needs to be dealt with added, then of course a Scarf revenge killer is a perfect candidate, but why waste our slot on it now when there could be an easy addition that simply bypasses the specific scarfer in future slots. Makes utterly no sense at all.
canno
formerly The Reptile
I think we should start making a FWG core here, seeing as we have Rotom-C and have a couple of good offensive. I want to add Life Orb Darmanitan as an option.
Darmanitian @ Life Orb
Sheer Force
Adamant
252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Superpower
Currently, Darma outspeeds the entire opposing team, and hits everything hard with a 30-60% boosted attack, and no negative LO damage. Flare Blitz hurts Roserade and Heracross, Earthquake hurts Roserade; Omastar; and whatever other Firemon they choose, U-Turn hurts Roserade and is for scouting, Superpower hurts Omastar. And remember, this is all coming out of a base 140 Atk, which means it should, in theory, OHKO everything they have currently.
Darmanitian @ Life Orb
Sheer Force
Adamant
252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Superpower
Currently, Darma outspeeds the entire opposing team, and hits everything hard with a 30-60% boosted attack, and no negative LO damage. Flare Blitz hurts Roserade and Heracross, Earthquake hurts Roserade; Omastar; and whatever other Firemon they choose, U-Turn hurts Roserade and is for scouting, Superpower hurts Omastar. And remember, this is all coming out of a base 140 Atk, which means it should, in theory, OHKO everything they have currently.
raaaawr
arcanine @ leftovers
intimidate, jolly
248 hp/44 atk/216 spe
- flare blitz
- wild charge
- extremespeed
- morning sun
arcanine is a great mon to volt turn into, capable of outspeeding and OHKO'ing all of team 1 with flare blitz or wild charge, as well as providing the team with a strong priority move to help check any future speedy mons that may be added to the opposing team. it can also be a last ditch effort against a boosted omastar, especially after more than one boost, effectively negating its -normal resistance.
i opted for a bulkier spread, as it allows arcanine to come in on heracross with a lot more breathing room without the aid of a volt turn thanks to intimidate. arcanine is also a super threat in general, and forces the other team to find an answer to it.
in addition to its synergy with the volt turn strategy, arcanine's worst enemies (rhyperior, donphan, milotic) are easily checked by rotom-C, while some more defensive threats (chansey, snorlax) are easy pickings for crobat.
leftovers over life orb was tricky here, because i believe that arcanine should be able to switch around more freely without being forced to recover every time it comes in but i do enjoy like power. however, considering that a) it has to run two attacks that deal recoil damage, 2) the lack of attack investment, and c) the role that it plays for the team, i am more favorable towards leftovers.
I'd like to throw this in:
Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Grass
- Drill Peck
- Heat Wave
This outspeeds and OHKOs all of Team 1's mons so far. Like P-Z above (and unlike the other suggestions) this can outspeed and OHKO Omastar after it boosts.
Zapdos can also switch into Roserade with relative ease and also hera unless it SEs off the bat.
Volt Switch keeps the switching power up, although it may be overkill.
Drill Peck with Timid may seem odd, but it OHKOs Hera (obviously) and will kill Roserade after a single life orb recoil with stealth rock. Not lowering defense is preferred for switching into hera and roserade.
Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Grass
- Drill Peck
- Heat Wave
This outspeeds and OHKOs all of Team 1's mons so far. Like P-Z above (and unlike the other suggestions) this can outspeed and OHKO Omastar after it boosts.
Zapdos can also switch into Roserade with relative ease and also hera unless it SEs off the bat.
Volt Switch keeps the switching power up, although it may be overkill.
Drill Peck with Timid may seem odd, but it OHKOs Hera (obviously) and will kill Roserade after a single life orb recoil with stealth rock. Not lowering defense is preferred for switching into hera and roserade.
Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-U-turn
-Stone Edge
Pretty self-explanatory. As others have pointed out, team 1 has a huge speed problem. Scarf Flygon guarantees that Omastar will never sweep us, ohkos Roserade with both Outrage and Earthquake, and does a minimum of 67% to Heracross with Outrage, which is an easy 2hko if it tries to get cheeky and switch in against Earthquake (not that it matters, since Heracross is hard-countered by Crobat anyway -___-).
More importantly, Flygon also serves as a solid safety check against any faster sweepers team 1 might choose, gives us a decent rock/fire resist and electric immunity for synergy with Crobat and Rotom-C, and also has U-turn to further complement our team's focus on momentum. The biggest problem with Flygon as a team member is that it massively compounds our exist Ice weakness...but we have other team members to deal with that, especially since there are several steel types available to us that would fit into the team quite nicely.
Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-U-turn
-Stone Edge
Pretty self-explanatory. As others have pointed out, team 1 has a huge speed problem. Scarf Flygon guarantees that Omastar will never sweep us, ohkos Roserade with both Outrage and Earthquake, and does a minimum of 67% to Heracross with Outrage, which is an easy 2hko if it tries to get cheeky and switch in against Earthquake (not that it matters, since Heracross is hard-countered by Crobat anyway -___-).
More importantly, Flygon also serves as a solid safety check against any faster sweepers team 1 might choose, gives us a decent rock/fire resist and electric immunity for synergy with Crobat and Rotom-C, and also has U-turn to further complement our team's focus on momentum. The biggest problem with Flygon as a team member is that it massively compounds our exist Ice weakness...but we have other team members to deal with that, especially since there are several steel types available to us that would fit into the team quite nicely.
I'm throwing my full support behind victini, people seem to have forgotten why he is so good, V-Create hits harder than just about everything. Everything, he also covers our weakness to ice and outspends and ohko's everything on team one, not to mention forcing them to play a hard counter which are very rare. And hell If they don't want to use SR let's abuse this fact to the maximum.
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