I'm really having trouble deciding which nature to run for a bulky DDZard - Adamant or Jolly? I get that Jolly can beat Scarf Landorus-T, but what are the important OHKO's Adamant secures?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
- Start date
- Status
I second this.
Is it still the
144 HP/252 Atk/112 Spe
spread thats up on the main website?
The best spread is Jolly 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe as it allows Charizard to outspeed choice scarf landorus-t after a dragon dance and KO it with unboosted flare blitz after stealth rock damage.
Im running Jolly now with 220 atk and 184 spe
Wouldnt he miss out on some crucial KOs with a jolly nature?
Like what? Being able to outpseed Choice Scarf Landorus-T is really important in this meta.
Why 184, out of curiosity?
i agree that air slash sucks on it. but it IS stab... as opposed to the point you are making
Air Slash gives no noteworthy coverage since Fire Blast hits all of its targets harder.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 272-324 (81.1 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona in Sun: 301-355 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 246-290 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also why the hell did you reply to a post from over 2 months ago?
i know its not worthy, i even said so in the post. was just pointing out that it was, in fact, stab.
as to why i replied, i wanted to see if there were any new insights on zard, since i hadn't really seen it around in a while (especially zardX). so i read the most recent pages. didn't realize they were from THAT long ago
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Just going to continue the discussion about Zard X in the viability rankings here before everything gets deleted :P
+1 220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 177-208 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Meaning that you would need some prior damage even when you consider Stealth Rock damage. Never said Diancie was very good against Zard X, but if Diancie stays healthy Zard-X won't sweep.
Also, firehusky Double Dance is nice, because you can go Adamant
Against Mega Slowbro:
Mega Slowbro comes in as Mega Zard X goes for SD
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Slowbro: 204-241 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 124-147 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Zard X only loses 45% and will be at +2.
Quagsire is annoying, but Adamant Dragon Claw hurts and Zard-X can 2HKO Quagsire after some prior damage before it can Recover up and Toxic stall it. Even with 2 min rolls you do 77% + 6% damage. Meaning that Quagsire can't switch in against Zard-X if it is below 83% of its health, so even a burn is enough to kill Quagsire
Alomomola will be 2hko'd by Dragon Claw, so it can Toxic Zard-X and Protect / Regenerator stall a bit, but it still loses 1v1. Hippowdon dies to +2 Flare Blitz.
Stall without Quagsire / Rhyperior will lose at least 1 pokemon if Charizard is played good, and most of the time it will kill more. The only way I can see stall teams killing SD Charizard-X is by luring in a Flare Blitz, switch into Chansey and let Charizard take 79% recoil damage, but the stall teams loses Chansey which is pretty bad.
Against offense Tailwind is awesome because you don't even need boosts to kill things with Flare Blitz. Tailwind also gives good support to the whole team if Zard X is forced to switch out. However, you lose against stuff like Tyranitar (Scarfed/Max Def sets) and Mega Diancie so in that case DD would be better.
Anyone ever tried out Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Flare Blitz, Dragon Claw? You have a way better matchup against pokemon like Mega Diancie because you get the speed and power to kill them, where Tailwind is forced to switch out. The only issue would be the nature, as you need Adamant to kill Quagsire, but you need Jolly for Landorus-T.
That is true, but I said they only needed to be weakened a bit. Also, Charizard X prefers a Jolly nature and often uses 220 Atk EVs. So the calc would look like this:
+1 220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 177-208 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Meaning that you would need some prior damage even when you consider Stealth Rock damage. Never said Diancie was very good against Zard X, but if Diancie stays healthy Zard-X won't sweep.
Also, firehusky Double Dance is nice, because you can go Adamant
Against Mega Slowbro:
Mega Slowbro comes in as Mega Zard X goes for SD
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Slowbro: 204-241 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 124-147 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Zard X only loses 45% and will be at +2.
Quagsire is annoying, but Adamant Dragon Claw hurts and Zard-X can 2HKO Quagsire after some prior damage before it can Recover up and Toxic stall it. Even with 2 min rolls you do 77% + 6% damage. Meaning that Quagsire can't switch in against Zard-X if it is below 83% of its health, so even a burn is enough to kill Quagsire
Alomomola will be 2hko'd by Dragon Claw, so it can Toxic Zard-X and Protect / Regenerator stall a bit, but it still loses 1v1. Hippowdon dies to +2 Flare Blitz.
Stall without Quagsire / Rhyperior will lose at least 1 pokemon if Charizard is played good, and most of the time it will kill more. The only way I can see stall teams killing SD Charizard-X is by luring in a Flare Blitz, switch into Chansey and let Charizard take 79% recoil damage, but the stall teams loses Chansey which is pretty bad.
Against offense Tailwind is awesome because you don't even need boosts to kill things with Flare Blitz. Tailwind also gives good support to the whole team if Zard X is forced to switch out. However, you lose against stuff like Tyranitar (Scarfed/Max Def sets) and Mega Diancie so in that case DD would be better.
Anyone ever tried out Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Flare Blitz, Dragon Claw? You have a way better matchup against pokemon like Mega Diancie because you get the speed and power to kill them, where Tailwind is forced to switch out. The only issue would be the nature, as you need Adamant to kill Quagsire, but you need Jolly for Landorus-T.
I'd say Jolly for the moment is probably better. Landorus-T can find its way onto each archetype, but Quagsire is more a Stall/Balance type mon, and far less common overall than Lando-T. Quagsire also seems easier to just deal with unintentionally when teambuilding, given its mediocre Special Bulk and Passiveness on the whole. And as you noted, it needs very little damage prior for Zard-X to beat it (A bit more for Jolly of course).
I'd say go Jolly, since Lando-T is more relevant in the current metagame.
- Status