CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 3)

[Elevator Music]

Just like last poll, I'm conflicted. I've decided to run a comparison of the top 25 most-used pokemon, and see which type has the advantage against each one (just like last poll where I compared Electric and Dragon).

...Big list

I think part of it isn't just how well they do against opposing pokemon in a one-on-one standoff where they haven't been effected by anything yet.

Keep in mind that Poison/Ground will have more survivability. When Poison/Dragon loses it's Leftovers recovery in SS, that's important. When it's taking 12.5% of it's health every switchin, that's important too. Your recovery move can only help you so much.

And since we're thinking about giving this guy a high speed, a T-Wave immunity is very helpful. I think this point holds more water now that people are suggesting base speeds of 110+ (even if I don't really agree with it).

EDIT- Also, a lot of your scenarios are a little flawed Doug. =/ Ground has the advantage over Bronzong and other Flyings/Levitators weak to Ground assuming it gets Gravity. I know you don't assume this and have spoken against assuming pokemon getting certain moves beforehand, but there are enough people strongly advocating for it enough to the point where I'm just assuming it's getting Gravity.

 

[Absolution]

This is just my own musings in responce.

Type-wise, I'm not sure what weakness would actually hurt more. Pokemon who have dragon-type moves tend to be packing STAB and attack power to back it up, but water can show up on a greater variety of pokemon and still could hurt.

I can't think of a single OU Pokemon that runs a water attack without STAB. There are, however, non dragons running Dragon attacks (like Heatran). Granted, both are pretty obvious and easily predicted, however STAB x2 Outrage (on usually massive stats) hurts a whole ton more STAB x2 Surf.

Ground is immune to sandstorm, dragons have a lot of support moves.

I don't see your last point, personally. Support moves can go on a ton of different typed pokemon without looking out of place, even if the typing doesn't match up. It's all up to the design really.

I just really think Ground is the superior choice.

 

[DDRMaster]

I can't think of a single OU Pokemon that runs a water attack without STAB.

Specsmence has Hydropump. It'll still kill dragons with Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor though.

 

[latinoheat]

Of the top of my head the only one is Stone Edge/Taunt variations of Gyarados, and then you have the risk of fucking up and getting hit with ice fang.

 

[DDRMaster]

In conjunction with my previous post, Altaria can give the Dragon Perish Song, Haze, and Refresh together. If the trap door spider ends up learning Spider Web, it can get Perish Song from Kricketune and be a Perish Trapper.

 

[Funky Monk]

Poison/Ground

Dual status immunity and dual entry hazard resistance. STAB EQ + Gravity has been covered; even if it probably won't have a threatening attacking stat, Ground is a much more useful STAB than Dragon for a pokemon mostly unconcerned with offense. I also think that Bug, Fighting, and Rock resistances will allow it to at least switch in with relative safety on a majority of physical threats, even with the EQ weakness.

 

[ParadOxymoron]

Ground, for reasons I've already mentioned.

 

[Absolution]

Specsmence has Hydropump. It'll still kill dragons with Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor though.

Gah! I had a feeling I was forgetting someone. Thanks. Granted, SpecsMence'll be an issue for either version of this guy, in all likelihood.

 

[omgthatkid]

I'm really excited for this CAP.
Either way this thing is seeming to turn out well.
A Ground or Dragon secondary type is definitely intriguing me and will definitely lead to some interesting concepts.
That trap door spider concept is good.
Also theres that komodo dragon concept in the art submission thread that I'd advise you all to check out.

 

[Elevator Music]

Unforunately if we give it a trapping ability I'm assuming we won't be giving it Encore.

I do not wan't the part of Wobba that allows you to set up so easy in this metagame again.

 

[Blln]

Voting Dragon again. I've given reasoning in the previous polls - Dragon has cool resists, enough weaknesses to keep it balanced, and it gives us an excuse to give it plently of support moves.

 

[Fishin]

Poison/Dragon

Aldaron's point of how STAB EQ would be awesome when combined with Gravity is interesting (especially when you consider the fact that Poison hits one of the other types that resists Ground without an immunity SE), but I still think that Dragon's resistances would work better.

 

[Shiny Noctowl]

Poison/Dragon for the reasons already stated by myself and others.

 

[Erik]

I personally see both having great application. This is from a battle only perspective.

Dragon:
- huge movepool option as it IS a dragon type
- Good attacking move that can hit almost all types for neutral damage at the very least
- great resistances

Ground
- resistance to Stealth Rock
- immunity to Sandstorm
- immunity to electric attacks (twave, charge beam [no specatk raise] etc)

Those 3 are the main points I am looking at. DJD's list of how a Dragon type would be more beneficial is all well and good and I was seeing it like that (not to mention the possible badass concept art) but, I was full on reminded that this was a UTILITY pokemon. We don't exactly need a utility to be able to take down as many other pokemon as possible but rather, come in relatively undamaged. Use varying set up moves, wall some while setting up and then either attack what is in briefly if you can bring it down or switch out to a strong and better suited attacker. The resistance to overall damage and immunities makes me vote for GROUND. Dragon as a utility type sounds cool but, with the amount of play that stealth rock and sandstorm get...ground just has more application.

 

[BARILLIAN]

Dropping my Ground vote in.

 

[PeteDHeat]

Dragon/Poison ftw.

 

[chronostrike]

Ground
It's all in the passive resists. SR resist is something I've wanted from the beginning.

 

[the_artic_one]

Ground
Lefties/focus sash in the sand is good for a pure utility in my mind.

 

[Invective]

ground. as a lot of people have stated, thunderwave immunity/electric in general, coupled with its typing gives it toxic and thunderwave immunity. also is immune to sandstream, and resists SR, which is good since it will most likely be switching inn a lot as a utility guy.

 

[Minibombmon]

Poison/Ground

Considering Electric is out as an option, I figured Ground is the next best option, due to the reasons stated before. For some reason, I just feel like Dragon isn't the way to go for this Pokémon.

 

[darkie]

Dragon.

Poison/Dragon has several more useful resistances than Ground. It also has the same amount of weaknesses, yet its weaks are arguably less common than Poison/Ground's.

 

[moot]

Poison/Dragon

Water weak is worse than a dragon weak. We don't need this thing getting taken out early by Gyarados and Swampert.

 

[megalolz]

Poison/dragon

 

[DougJustDoug]

I think part of it isn't just how well they do against opposing pokemon in a one-on-one standoff where they haven't been effected by anything yet.

Keep in mind that Poison/Ground will have more survivability. When Poison/Dragon loses it's Leftovers recovery in SS, that's important. When it's taking 12.5% of it's health every switchin, that's important too. Your recovery move can only help you so much.

And since we're thinking about giving this guy a high speed, a T-Wave immunity is very helpful. I think this point holds more water now that people are suggesting base speeds of 110+ (even if I don't really agree with it).

EDIT- Also, a lot of your scenarios are a little flawed Doug. =/ Ground has the advantage over Bronzong and other Flyings/Levitators weak to Ground assuming it gets Gravity. I know you don't assume this and have spoken against assuming pokemon getting certain moves beforehand, but there are enough people strongly advocating for it enough to the point where I'm just assuming it's getting Gravity.

I agree that gravity could change the scenario for a few of those matchups, Bronzong and Skarm in particular. But, I really didn't want to make assumptions about movepool.

Actually, my list was not a definitive list for battle purposes. It was simply one attempt to move past pure theorymon on how this typing will actually be used in real play. So, I just lined this pokemon up against the top 25 and asked, "Which typing is better?"

It's just one evaluation. But I think it is somewhat telling how Dragon and Ground fares against these pokes, strictly looking at typing.

 

[N/A]

Poison/Dragon

For all reasons already said..