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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 2 )
- Thread starter Sunday
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Hey, I changed my vote, guys!
Go ground!
Go ground!
You obviously have never played in the CaP metagame. Syclant is Bug/Ice, and owns things hard. Because of that, there are a ton of Heatrans throwing fire moves around. Because of that, many people carry bulky waters to deal with Heatran. And finally, because of that, many people carry Celebi or Pyroak to cover the bulky waters and go with Heatran, so the first part of your post is way off.
Next, resisting Poison is quite big, because people use Tentacruel to deal with Celebi, Pyroak, and the Spikes users.
Gliscor is Ground/Flying, and only looks Poison. Last, what is mystic?
Ground
I'm going to make a switch from my last post in other thread and cast my vote for Ground. I think Latinoheat's post really swayed my vote. A lot of what was posted was in the other thread, but it made it seem like there were more pro's than con's. Too bad probably it's biggest con is the Ice weak. But Dragon faced that same con as well.
I'd be happy if Ground or Dragon won. I wouldn't be upset if Dark or None won. I wouldn't be so happy or supportive (pardon the pun) if Electric or Steel won.
I'm going to make a switch from my last post in other thread and cast my vote for Ground. I think Latinoheat's post really swayed my vote. A lot of what was posted was in the other thread, but it made it seem like there were more pro's than con's. Too bad probably it's biggest con is the Ice weak. But Dragon faced that same con as well.
I'd be happy if Ground or Dragon won. I wouldn't be upset if Dark or None won. I wouldn't be so happy or supportive (pardon the pun) if Electric or Steel won.
At first I was leaning towards Dragon, but a few things (well one thing really) has made me stop and think for a second: Its weaknesses to Dragon, Ice, Ground, and Psychic. Two of those are seen on at least two Pokemon on every team I'd say. Dragon is amazing offensively and is a very dominant type in the Metagame. And Psychic from what I hear has increased in popularity on the mod server to deal explicitely with Revenankh.
Looking at the Shoddy rankings, approximately 14 or 15 of the top 20 Pokemon could hit a Poison/Dragon for SE damage with their standard movesets. We're likely to give this guy great defenses, but still, how can a support Pokemon do its job if it's falling in 2/3 hits to the most common Pokemon you're likely to encounter? Even with a 50% recovery move you'll run into problems because of low PP and the eventual critical hit. And it's only against stuff like Blissey's Ice Beam or Bronzong's Earthquake that you'll even have the option to spam Recover or whatever we give it. Against T-tar, Gyara, Chomp, Weavile, Metagross, and every other offensive Pokemon in the top 20 pretty much, (apart from Infernape who this guy coincidentally would be an amazing counter to) you definitely won't be able to keep up with them by constantly healing.
You might argue that its resists allow it to come in and do its job properly. But take a look at this: this guy resists water right? But which Pokemon most commonly use Ice type moves? Water Pokemon, that's right. Poison/Dragon may resist Electric and Fire, but those Pokes typically carry HP Ice as well, so you really aren't a counter to the actual Pokemon which carry the moves, only the type itself. Admitedly, this guy does pretty well against Fighting types, but if you're using our Poison/Dragon for that I'd ask why not just use Weezing, Gliscor, Revenankh, Dusknoir, or Gengar. There's plenty of competition in the "Fighting counter" domain already. My point here is not to vouch for Poison/Dragon because of the types it resists. Look at the Pokemon who use Water/Electric/Fire/Fighting moves, see what else they commonly use, and then tell me whether you think Poison/Dragon really is such a great defensive type.
Personally I don't think teams in today's metagame have room for a Pokemon that only serves a utility purpose, because that would mean a large part of your team has to be focused around that utility Pokemon to use it to its best potential, but that's neither here nor there. I'm gonna wait a bit before voting, but I think I'm leaning towards Steel or Ground.
Looking at the Shoddy rankings, approximately 14 or 15 of the top 20 Pokemon could hit a Poison/Dragon for SE damage with their standard movesets. We're likely to give this guy great defenses, but still, how can a support Pokemon do its job if it's falling in 2/3 hits to the most common Pokemon you're likely to encounter? Even with a 50% recovery move you'll run into problems because of low PP and the eventual critical hit. And it's only against stuff like Blissey's Ice Beam or Bronzong's Earthquake that you'll even have the option to spam Recover or whatever we give it. Against T-tar, Gyara, Chomp, Weavile, Metagross, and every other offensive Pokemon in the top 20 pretty much, (apart from Infernape who this guy coincidentally would be an amazing counter to) you definitely won't be able to keep up with them by constantly healing.
You might argue that its resists allow it to come in and do its job properly. But take a look at this: this guy resists water right? But which Pokemon most commonly use Ice type moves? Water Pokemon, that's right. Poison/Dragon may resist Electric and Fire, but those Pokes typically carry HP Ice as well, so you really aren't a counter to the actual Pokemon which carry the moves, only the type itself. Admitedly, this guy does pretty well against Fighting types, but if you're using our Poison/Dragon for that I'd ask why not just use Weezing, Gliscor, Revenankh, Dusknoir, or Gengar. There's plenty of competition in the "Fighting counter" domain already. My point here is not to vouch for Poison/Dragon because of the types it resists. Look at the Pokemon who use Water/Electric/Fire/Fighting moves, see what else they commonly use, and then tell me whether you think Poison/Dragon really is such a great defensive type.
Personally I don't think teams in today's metagame have room for a Pokemon that only serves a utility purpose, because that would mean a large part of your team has to be focused around that utility Pokemon to use it to its best potential, but that's neither here nor there. I'm gonna wait a bit before voting, but I think I'm leaning towards Steel or Ground.
OK, Ground it is then.
Well everything you have said here also applies to all the voters picking Ground which is currently in second place. In addition to the Ice and Ground weaknesses it still has to deal with an Water which is also a pretty popular type.
Dragon/Poison may have some pretty common weaknesses but it's resistances do serve to help balance that out.
Pokemon like Heatran Salamence and Gyarados are all weak to some pretty common types in Water, Ground, Fighting, Ice, Rock and Electric but just look how many people use them on their teams for their defensive qualities.
First. Ok. So, you're saying that a poke that resists Poison is A GOOD thing? I'm Sorry, But with Powerful Rock Attacks to Hammer Pyroak, and X-scissor to Murder celebi, Why have a Poison Move? It's coverage is BAD, End of story. I never Said resisting fire and Water is bad, it's just that there rarely seen as Offensive types on There own, and there ussually accompanied with the types that murder its resists, Namely, Ice and ground, Respectively.
and By gliscor Clone, I mean't it would share roles with it in countering Lucario and Heracross, I know its a Ground/Flying type.
And "Mystic" is the Excuse Many Dragon Bandwagoners were using to give this guy a great Support movepool.
Also, thanks to Reveneankh, Psychic Usage has gone up, along with flying.
Electric :O
I think all the other options have too many weaknesses, (except Dark), and not enough resistances. Poison/Dragon is weak to three common types. Poison Dark has one weak, but loses out on the Fighting resist, which, imo, is fairly useful. Poison/Ground is also weak to Ice, as well as Ground, but comes with three resists. I'd do that one, but I feel that the typing needs to be more unique, like Poison/Elec. :D
I think all the other options have too many weaknesses, (except Dark), and not enough resistances. Poison/Dragon is weak to three common types. Poison Dark has one weak, but loses out on the Fighting resist, which, imo, is fairly useful. Poison/Ground is also weak to Ice, as well as Ground, but comes with three resists. I'd do that one, but I feel that the typing needs to be more unique, like Poison/Elec. :D
well, NVM what I said about the "Ground/Poison is a gliscor Clone" thing.
They'd still be diferent things. I guess.
No secoundary type
As I mentioned in my previous voting, we want something that can come in and survive most attacks so it can either do its utility move or see the danger and pull out for a better opportunity. So while Earthquake may be ridiciously common, if we give it the right defensive stats it will hopefully survive non-STAB on a mispredict.
However if we give it secoundary types like Steel and Electric, we ensure one earthquake regardless of the source takes it out. Likewise, giving it Dragon or Ground just gives it another ridiciously common attack type to worry about. Any benefit from resitance would be negated by potentially half an opposing team or more being able to exterminate it.
As I mentioned in my previous voting, we want something that can come in and survive most attacks so it can either do its utility move or see the danger and pull out for a better opportunity. So while Earthquake may be ridiciously common, if we give it the right defensive stats it will hopefully survive non-STAB on a mispredict.
However if we give it secoundary types like Steel and Electric, we ensure one earthquake regardless of the source takes it out. Likewise, giving it Dragon or Ground just gives it another ridiciously common attack type to worry about. Any benefit from resitance would be negated by potentially half an opposing team or more being able to exterminate it.
No, it resists Bug and Fighting, But Neutral to Dark and rock. So, yes, it counters Hera. So does Poison/Ground, and Poison by itself. Too bad it's still hit super effective by Earthquake.
What Heracross carries Earthquake over Pursuit/Night Slash? Also, Poison/Ground is still weak to Ground and Ice, in addition to a Water weak and Neutral to Grass. Its a trade-off, on whether or not you want the ability to nail a Garchomp switch-in with Hp Ice or Dragon _.
Dragon
I really don't want something like Dark or Steel to win. I would primarily vote for Electric, but this one seems to be winning out of the two. Ground is ok....but in my opinion a supporting Dragon just seems better. And I know Ground can take Thunder Wave and is resistant to stealth rock and Sandstorm, but Dragon can provide utility options and a unique approach to this type. Nidoqueen works just fine in the lower tiers, and I think a unique typing would accent the CAP project better than a Poison/Ground one. Not only that, but Dragon is weak to one thing that Ground is--Ice. It only brings another Dragon weakness, while sporting 4 useful resistances: Fire, Electric, Water, and Grass. Ground gives two more weaknesses (Ice and Water) and takes away from the Grass resistance, while only giving rock resistance, ANOTHER Poison resistance (which we don't need in the first place), and an electric immunity which is to a certain extent covered by Dragon with a handy resistance.
I really don't want something like Dark or Steel to win. I would primarily vote for Electric, but this one seems to be winning out of the two. Ground is ok....but in my opinion a supporting Dragon just seems better. And I know Ground can take Thunder Wave and is resistant to stealth rock and Sandstorm, but Dragon can provide utility options and a unique approach to this type. Nidoqueen works just fine in the lower tiers, and I think a unique typing would accent the CAP project better than a Poison/Ground one. Not only that, but Dragon is weak to one thing that Ground is--Ice. It only brings another Dragon weakness, while sporting 4 useful resistances: Fire, Electric, Water, and Grass. Ground gives two more weaknesses (Ice and Water) and takes away from the Grass resistance, while only giving rock resistance, ANOTHER Poison resistance (which we don't need in the first place), and an electric immunity which is to a certain extent covered by Dragon with a handy resistance.
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