Other than Blissey, what is paralyzing Togekiss? Literally none of Togekiss' counters attempt paralysis at all. Rotom-a won't. Zapdos won't. Jolteon won't. Dragonite usually won't. These WILL try to kill Togekiss with STAB Electric moves, and if we have no way to deal with those, this Pokemon will have virtually no correlation with Togekiss at all. None whatsoever. Zero. Suppose for the sake of argument that Gyarados benefits a lot and Togekiss only moderately from CAP11 in usage. This would still be an improvement. If CAP11 has no answer for any of Zapdos, Rotom-a, Jolteon or Dragonite, Togekiss usage may be utterly unaffected by the presence of CAP11. This would constitute total failure of the concept, in my opinion. Realistically, as Rising_Dusk noted, CAP11 does not help Gyarados with its counters as much as one might think; it is setup bait for Suicune, probably can't beat Vaporeon, and depending on which stat spread wins may or may not be able to deal with Starmie.I don't like Volt Absorb, or Motor Drive. With these we are "giving CAP the best tools possible" and failing the concept. He will wind up a better Gyarados pair, because gyarados doesn't need to worry about strong Fire type moves. We'll end up making a pokemon that good with just about every Electric weak pokemon, to the point were Togekiss will be outclassed... again. Definitely not the point.
Limber. Limber. Limber.
Togekiss hates being paralyzed like the plague.
I also think Guts is a good ability for this mon. The opposing team will be scared to paralyze 'Kiss, in fear of a Rampaging CAP11.
Intimidate would have been a lot more appealing to me had there been a halfway physical stat submission, however, it's still a great asset. I know custom abilities are generally off the table but I believe a Special Intimidate would be an asset to this pokemon.
CAP 11 already has a fighting weakness, and Togekiss can't switch into strong fighting attacks. The Togekiss/CAP 11 duo will need an intermediate pivot as it stands. Someone who can switch in on strong electric attacks is just a necessary pivot. The duo will not fail without an electric immunity. For example, Rotom-A switches in on Togekiss. You switch to Celebi on the thunderbolt, then CAP 11 on the shadow ball. That is how lots of offensive cores work, and keeping that in mind is critical. The same principal applies with other strong non-choiced electric attackers; Pokemon like Celebi and Rotom-A resist electric attacks and draw ghost and dark attacks for CAP 11 to switch in on. Having a simple pivot pokemon is already essential to the duo, and an ability like Volt Absorb or Motor Drive allows CAP 11 to function too well with other electric-weak pokemon.Rising_Dusk said:Offensive cores can have intermediate pivots. Many cores are actually composed of more than 2 Pokemon for just this reason. For instance, you can pivot to Magnezone on an Rock-type attack aimed at Salamence, then immediately switch to Gengar on the next Ground-type attack. From here, your Gengar has gotten in for free and will threaten whatever is attacking. This is how lots of offensive cores work, and keeping that in mind is critical. This emphasizes that we do not need perfect type coverage between Togekiss and CAP11. (Nor could we get it outside of a Water/Ground CAP with only a Grass-type weakness, as Togekiss has crap for a defensive typing) This also directly relates to how fundamentally wrong you are in your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Venetor
The key to a Perfect Mate tag-team is that both switch out onto hits that the other can't take and then scare or defeat the partner's problems.
No, that is not the key to a Perfect Mate. The sooner you rid yourself of that illusion, the sooner you might actually contribute to this CAP instead of whatever you might consider your whining and complaining to be.
Well CAP11 WILL have high SPA therefore if it runs HP Electric/Grass it wont have too much of a problem with Cune and Vappy seeing as how Bulky it might be it could take a surf or 2... just saying.How is CAP11 a perfect mate for Gyarados? You can't just say that without justification. It can absorb Tbolt woooo, but what the hell can it do against hard Gyarados counters like Vaporeon and Suicune? Nothing. Absolutely zip. Vaporeon laughs at you with 130/95 defenses and Suicune with 100/115. You cant even say boosting moves, because both have access to Roar, which they commonly use. They don't run speed usually anyways so your +1 speed means nothing. How will this be broken?
I really don't se any merit in a status absorbing ability, as many great combos can't do that and they are still very successful. Take the Fire/Water/Grass core. Out of this core, the fire is always vunerable to status, as well as water unless it is Rest Talk Suicune. The Grass usually has natural cure but thats 1/3 resistant to status. What is Shed Skin going to do when Jolteon comes in and demolishes you with Thunderbolt? What does Natural Cure do when Rotom Discharges and paralysis you so you have to switch to Togekiss? What the is Limber going to accomplish when you switch into Blissey and get Toxiced? What does Immunity do when Zapdos Thunderbolts you? Out of these 4 senarios, 3/4 will be solved by having an Electric immunity ability. I implore you to see the disadvantages of "Limber" sure it prevents paralysis, but so does Volt Absorb/ Motor Drive, bar Jirachi with Body Slam, which can be seen coming from a mile away.
Did you take Life Orb into consideration? and i'm sure Suicune and Vaporeon would hate to be shut down by Taunt... I haven't checked on some of the moves CAP11 is getting but i'm sure if it gets Grass Knot or T-Bolt or something that effect it will surely shut down cune and vappy. Plus most teams dont run Vappy or Cune just to Counter Gyarados, remember Bulky Gyarados has taunt too and can outspeed cune and Vappy especially if they're going to roar, and can just set up on them unless Cune or Vappy are carrying Hidden Power Electric or something which still MIGHT not KO gyarados, so saying Cune and Vappy are good counters to Gyarados and this new CAP is not really true at all...HP Grass with the current SpA (105) that is winning in the polls does 33.9% - 40.2% to 188/0 Vaporeon and 31.7% - 37.6% to 252/0 Suicune (This is all assuming Modest Nature too). Taunt is a bad arguement because Suicune does 34.9% - 41.4% with Surf, and Vaporeon 41.4% - 48.9%. This means if CAP11 does survive, it will have almost no health. It is also a poor arguement to say it can use HP ___ to counter something for something else, because anything can use Hidden Power.
I think to resolve all this we could just use Lightning Rod actually... Suck in electric attacks for no boost and also its not ELECTRIC type exclusiveSo then how do we justify giving a fighting/dark pokemon one of two exclusively electric abilities?