NOC BULLETPROOF NOC gg Mafia wins

[Yeti]

yeah haruno literally claimed he inspected shubaka that night, then former hope accurately claims haruno visited nobody making tracker v cop a tvt battle where one surely must be lying

like

what?

half the village just shot themselves in the foot and screwed the town over, the sad thing is of the shady af EoD1 actions i pointed out only rssp1 was actually mafia and unfortunately he was going to be my third lynch of the three

haruno and meowmixxx deciding to hammer GME for absolutely no reason when that lynch told us NOTHING was just incredibly stupid

blazade was the only mafia to play well tbh, the other two were both exceedingly obvious at various points in the game but haruno claiming he inspected shubaka versus fh claiming he didn't tanked the game so hard. there's just no way to recover from the town cop actually LYING about his inspection.

there literally never should've been haruno v fh because haruno never should've lied

meowmixxx had no defense

GME was lynched almost entirely by villagers when it was a stupid af lynch in the first place, my vote on him was a pressure vote for activity then you buffoons ran with it for no reason

idk this game was just extremely poorly played by both sides with a couple exceptions. remind me never to join a noc without unclesam/jumpluff to motivate activity again rofl insufferable levels of apathy and completely useless play to form relationships to lynch off of

thanks to jalmont for hosting, i definitely think the numbers ratios were off itg but poor play by the village doesn't help matters. GME should've never been a mislynch that happened, for some reason people just insist on needing blood on d1s of NOCs even when it is CONSISTENTLY a mislynch/mistake because it's even numerically more likely TO be a villager randomly lynched. the game is truly unwinnable when your fellow villagers would rather mislynch one of their own than prove your town role

 

[Yeti]

also haruno chose to vote the person BOTH HIS 100% SCUMREADS were voting over voting me for the no lynch

there is no logical reason to ever vote the person both your scumreads are on because if both ARE mafia they sure af aren't bussing one of their own d1, the statistical odds two d1 wagons are SvS are way lower than TvS or TvT, and even if only one is scum it's less likely they'd be bwing off one of their own

like idk when people make illogical village idiot choices that have no basis for the choice to be made if someone is town and thinking from a town perspective, or thinking at all, it's really hard to accurately read the game

 

[Empoof]

I'm best player MVP best reads NA. I called Blazade from skimming.

and no sweat Jalmont, it's gucci. Honestly was nice to just sit in the NOC environment to get a feel for it again. I liked the setup and it seemed okay, your changes seem good. If Village didn't throw themselves on the knife so hard it might have been balanced, hard for me to say.

See you all next game, i want in this shit.

 

[Haruno]

nah shubaka should've been gone day 1 if you all decided to go for him instead of some nonsensible plays. Come on, GME bw should've never happened. tf was the yeti proving unlynchable thing supposed to accomplish. day 2 was even more of a clown fest with yeti adding more suspicion onto herself and others by instantly hard bw meowmix and mafia just took advantage of that. Let's disregard how fucked we were by then with 3 villagers dead with no bpv active on anyone. Then comes day 3 where I had literally no options.

Claim I was hooked = auto scum read and lying about role = get lynched.
Claim an obvious mafia was mafia (role was irrelevant, the point was to get the mafia lynch which would at least prove to an extent I wasn't mafia or I'd be a fucking baller by removing my own teammate) and try to get that to work. No clue why former hope bothered saying he was tracker when that was literally the worst move possible at that point in time since what you wanted to do was lynch the guaranteed mafia. This was the only way to not ensure a game loss since the mafia just had to convince even a single village to not vote for the obvious scum (not that hard seeing as how vpp went for meowmix/gme which made him a prime target).

Overall it was all sloppy play from my point of view where we had no real hope of winning after night 1.

 

[Blazade]

Let's not forget that the game should have been over at the START of day 3 but we lost a full kill N2 due to Maleovex idling. Even if one of us got lynched as long as it wasn't me or Maleovex we still won because of the 3 shots.

This game was hilarious because all I tried to do was have everyone distance from each other while town fucks up and lynches each other for it. I was prepared to bus shubaka day 1 but I didn't think it was necessary after VPP gave GME some traction and if we wanted a day 3 win keeping the numbers intact was important. In any case shub was always going to be the first mafia to die which would make rssp1 look better.

RNG gave Yeti an Unlynchable modifer that's a fucking laugh I don't think she's even been close to lynched without damning evidence in her NOC career. Can't argue with that pussy game I guess.

I was going to say village had a lot of power, and indeed they did but the lack of a BG which I was trying to out predict all game probably made it not enough. Rolecop is basically cop with Hooker being the only ambiguous mafia role and not even then really.

Haruno it's natural that you get hooked by the mafia when you pubclaim with no SG and don't die that night. Even if it sounds scummy, as town the truth is the least scummy thing you can do. If I was trying day 3 I'd probably have brought up that if shub was mafia hooker and you were town you should have been hooked.

GG guys, first time I rolled honest scum in a NOC and it was fun.

 

[rssp1]

yeah this was a fun game, I screwed up by straight up vanishing near deadline which Yeti picked up on, I think I played alright aside from that (or at least the same as town me would have played).
I also think I did a good job of bussing shubaka (and shubaka did a good job bussing me) to the point where nobody thought we were both scum.

Overall that was a fun game even if we were just a bit op

 

[Blazade]

OH yeah FWIW Haruno was really astute Day 1 and 2 and I realized pretty early I had to start my shadecasting on him ASAP which really helped whenever he fucked up I guess.

 

[Yeti]

Haruno had good reads but his play was so erratic and inconsistent that he seemed to have no town minded motives.

Like even if you nail all the scum if you can't behave like you're town it doesn't matter, none of the other villagers will trust you.

If he says he got hooked former hope maybe doesn't claim because he wouldn't be contradicting it but does start to support haruno and his reads more.

Rssp1 made a good play in false claiming village hooker because it set up this huge cluster of people who simply had to be scum and all have revealed themselves by lying IF haruno was town cop. But because haruno lied rssp1 could make it look like a fh/shubaka/rssp1 team was just so unlikely that all three revealed haruno had to be scum.

Idk that was a huge misplay. I was starting to suspect blazade more and more and I think I would have lynched rssp1 today if haruno hadn't acted as he did. It's just too erratic to be seen as town.

 

[Yeti]

I never voted for haruno today because something wasn't sitting right with me but idk when you lie for no reason as town that's just such a horrible move. If someone lies in a noc I instantly consider them scum because town would have no reason to barring denying they're cop if they are before they have enough solid reads to come forward or something but lying about your results is zzz

 

[Blazade]

Yeti I never planned for there to be a Day 3 so I was actually real scared of getting lynched because the number of people that could be scum outside of me were dwindling fast, you in particular being in the best position to just straight up accuse me and me having to cope with the fact that you're necessarily a scumread contradicting my earlier info.

After Haruno self voted in LYLO hammer was easy but if that didn't happen then it might have been a real game, coming down to the fact that I set up Former Hope to be my scumbuddy and perhaps a premature rssp1 clear.

 

[Haruno]

As far as roles are concerned

Yeti was essentially a glorified VT since she's never getting lynched anyways which made her day 1 play weird af since confirming her wouldn't have helped much (better than lynching GME for sure) but I don't even know if Jalmont would've revealed that since it seems far more likely that he would've been like "Yeti was unable to get lynched due to her PR" and not a full role pm or a "Yeti could not be lynched because she's the village town because of her passive."

Blazade's ability was just broken regardless since needing one less vote to lynch is not even much of a downside until late game (day 3 presumably) and he would've gotten 2+ kills by then so it would've been fine.

What is a passive mafia unkillable ability supposed to do when town only has one vigilante.

I still think we were fucked regardless on day 3 regardless of what we did since a blazade/maleovex seemed nigh impossible.

Village seemed to rely far too heavily on lynches this game sincce we only had one cop, one vig (essentially VT), one tracker, one sg and like 4 VTs compared to mafia's 3 BPV's per night since vigilante is a vanilla town essentially because he needs two fucking nights to kill one person.

Idk I tried a more aggressive approach this time around as opposed to the idle and just talk shit about everyone like in previous games shrug. Should've just went harder on shubaka lynch day 1 since he played poorly and was obvious scum. By day 2 with yeti getting everyone to bw meowmixx, game immediately ended as well since it increased suspicion on her from my point of view (one of the two PR roles for village) and she also got FH to use track on me night 2 which was also a death wish which was ironic because I predicted that I would get hooked + tracked on night 2 but hindsight 20/20 i guess.

 

[Blazade]

Man was shubaka really obv scum though? I was serious when I said I could never read them lmao.

 

[shubaka17]

They* and idk how you guys managed to fall for the "spaz" defense someone threw out. I mean, I 100% do play with reaction lynches with how much people believe me. but I definitely overplayed the VPP thing bc of forum and being actual scum

 

[MeowMiXXX]

oh dang we lost

Yeti, call it a difference in philosophy. I've never played in a place that didn't lynch someone D1, and not taking hammer while being online would have been seen as a scum move. It's not like GME was an immaculately town player.

4 scum in a 13 p game a lot tho, even with the BPVs and town PRs and stuff.

 

[Yeti]

i felt there was more value in confirming my role over letting GME be lynched but I overestimated how much town would care at deadline/play well

there's 0 chance if someone stealth hammers at deadline like MM did i don't vote them tf out the next day, idc who it is. unless cop rocks up with a confirmed guilty that person is 100% my lynch target because i will never believe ENSURING a no lynch doesn't go off, resulting in a mislynch, isn't a mafia move. it does nothing for town especially on d1 when the lynch is an idler and a typical waste.

if haruno and meowmixxx don't vote as they did then i lynch off rssp1 for his failure to do anything at EoD plus intentional misread. however they voted in what i saw as anti-town and suspicious patterns so i felt they were more blatantly scummy.

smogon nocs ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS result in a D1NOCMISLYNCH i don't understand why people continue to try them, the only smart move is to no lynch because you don't yet know which of the idlers/village idiots are just erratic town who can't defend themselves well and who are actually scum. but nobody listens. zzz

shubaka got shuffled under the radar for me due to the spastic town and idle town goings on. i should've paid them more attention.

this is probably going to sound revisionist and i'm sure if unclesam was playing he'd tell me to stop clowning bc Lol but i was getting pretty confident blazade was the scum mastermind, i just had it wrong it wasn't either of haruno or former hope with rssp1 and blazade. i just hadn't given the read on him yet, i was going to push it after i got rid of one of his scumbuddies buuuut

jalmont regarding set up

i think this might have been a more interesting game if it actually WAS proper bulletproof so the mafia could only kill every other night. if the setup was like 4 or 5 / 11 or 12 scums, all vts except maybe tracker, all mafia goons + the killer, and it was more of a slow, methodical scumhunt with a lot of scum to kill but also a slower rate of villager deaths it'd place more emphasis on calm, collected play. if you had amnesiac game 1's playerlist plus a couple other people it would be active enough to succeed instead of degrading into a TvT clown fiesta wherein towns lie and do shady bs for no reason. i think this concept has merit but there were way too many ways to lose your bpv and it just descended into town hysteria

 

[MeowMiXXX]

Agai, difference in philosophy. I've only played in like 3 Smogon NOCs so I don't know the meta/people here as much as I do in other places.

Also regarding your role bringing it up toward EoD seemed suspicious as well. It seemed like bait to get us to lynch solely for your benefit rather than town, ie a jester type role.

Blazade was so obvious lol he sheeped you the entire game.

 

[Blazade]

Give me some credit, I tossed out my D2 scumreads before Yeti and I ended up predicting nicely.

Edit also Yeti's role was proven just from the attempt, we didn't need the lynch to happen for me to be convinced as either alignment

 

[billymills]

was this 4 v 9 with an extra mafia killer?

 

[MeowMiXXX]

Well I mean you were good in that you probably were the most unlynchable scum since you were the one driving the game.

 

[JALMONT]

smogon nocs ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS result in a D1NOCMISLYNCH i don't understand why people continue to try them, the only smart move is to no lynch because you don't yet know which of the idlers/village idiots are just erratic town who can't defend themselves well and who are actually scum. but nobody listens. zzz

This just fundamentally isn't true - a lynch on town is definitely better than a no lynch. You gain way more information on ppl on the way they base their votes since lynching someone forces ppl to vote whereas no lynch you miss out on that info.

The thing is I think you were right that no lynch was probably better day 1 with the idea that the village would have vig shots to make up for the potential d1 no lynch.

Also we have successfully lynched d1 before but that was like 3 yrs ago so maybe that doesn't count.

i think this might have been a more interesting game if it actually WAS proper bulletproof so the mafia could only kill every other night. if the setup was like 4 or 5 / 11 or 12 scums, all vts except maybe tracker, all mafia goons + the killer, and it was more of a slow, methodical scumhunt with a lot of scum to kill but also a slower rate of villager deaths it'd place more emphasis on calm, collected play. if you had amnesiac game 1's playerlist plus a couple other people it would be active enough to succeed instead of degrading into a TvT clown fiesta wherein towns lie and do shady bs for no reason. i think this concept has merit but there were way too many ways to lose your bpv and it just descended into town hysteria

Yeah, the point of the game wasn't ever for the BPVs to slow the game down. I wanted to keep things going at a decent pace because a night kill only every other night for the mafia just lends itself to be way too village favored imo. Although I will say your idea is interesting in terms of of balancing a pure mountainous (all vanilla) setup. Not sure if anybody would really want to play that on smogon though.

was this 4 v 9 with an extra mafia killer?

yea and a mafia BPV killer. my spreadsheet also has a second BPV killer but apparently i forgot about that which was probably for the better l0l

e: the extra killer by itself wasn't broken. it was just in addition to the BPV killer that messed things up.

 

[billymills]

If 3 / 10 vanilla is balanced with 1 mafia kill a night, then 4 / 9 with 1.5 kills a night is not going to be balanced at all. The other roles don't seem to be substantial enough to overcome that either.

 

[pancake]

this was bad

it's ok Jalmont :)

 

[JALMONT]

If 3 / 10 vanilla is balanced with 1 mafia kill a night, then 4 / 9 with 1.5 kills a night is not going to be balanced at all. The other roles don't seem to be substantial enough to overcome that either.

The original worry was that the mafia was too weak with 4 / 9 1 kill a night which is why I changed it to 4 / 9 1.5 kill a night or however you want to put it. The village also theoretically had 1 kill a night as well, but that was only ever going to work in theory.

Probably a better thing to do would've been to remove the extra kill entirely, but give the mafia 2 BPV killers. That solves a lot of issues including the fact that the mafia no longer are banking on one user to stay alive, but they are also limited to 1 kill a night.

 

[Cancerous]

No lynch is mathematically proven to be sub optimal.
Where is that gandhi picture when you need it.
Yeah

 

[Yeti]

This just fundamentally isn't true - a lynch on town is definitely better than a no lynch. You gain way more information on ppl on the way they base their votes since lynching someone forces ppl to vote whereas no lynch you miss out on that info.

The thing is I think you were right that no lynch was probably better day 1 with the idea that the village would have vig shots to make up for the potential d1 no lynch.

Also we have successfully lynched d1 before but that was like 3 yrs ago so maybe that doesn't count.

It may not be true on other sites but it's 100% true on Smogon considering every single gd game we mislynch a villager D1. It's just statistically more likely we're randing a villager than scum especially because the D1 mislynch is normally an idler or noobtown who HAS no relationships of value to gain insight from.

Even going after the bandwagon starter proves futile because it's usually me or UncleSam and both of us have only been scum in a NOC once, so if you tried to lynch us for starting things off you'd wind up in another mislynch D2.

idk just for how Smogon games go I don't think D1 ever provides enough discernible evidence to lynch on OR form connections with, normally the D1 mislynch is jumbled at EoD when one wagon starts getting more traction because welp gotta lynch someone!

but that's jmo on it