Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)

[imBLIND]

So after playing for a while in OU singles & doubles I decided to give BSSingles a try,and it has been incredible fun actually, teambuilding seems different since mons tend to have sometimes 2 roles at the same time and try to stand against the meta with just 3 mons instead of 6, of course the mons that are viable are somewhat less but who cares when I can use Blaziken?

So I was testing with a team around Blaziken, Raikou and Megamence.

Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- High Jump Kick
- Protect

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 SpA / 220 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Light Screen

Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 132 Atk / 252 Def / 124 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Spear

I am messing with Piloswine since it actually gives me the opportunity to serve as a check to common physical threats that mess with my team(ScarfChomp for example) but I would like an opinion of what the usual teammates or builds fit with Blaziken,Megamence and/or Raikou.

Raikou helps with special threats, mainly Zapdos and Thundurus alongside giving me access to attacking from the special side.

I have the general idea but dont really know deeply the meta, so any help would be appreciated.

Hippowdon is all the rage nowadays, with chip damage, shuffle, and stealth rock support for unboosted sweepers. He'd fit on your team rather nicely, and you'll want a better check/counter than Piloswine for opposing Hippos as well. Suicune, Rotom-W, etc would probably fit the bill. I would also consider using a Specs or Scarfed Sylveon here, as it would be able to significantly dent a lot of Blaziken's and Salamence's checks, who aren't covered by Raikou, with Hyper Voice/HP Fire/Psyshock, and dent a lot of the meta game as well. Talonflame revenge kill and sweep is also a big concern if Raikou can't be used/is fainted. A bold Rotom-W with volt switch would fit your team pretty well.

Hi Battlespot,

I've been using this team to start with on the poke-showdown ladder(Battlespot Singles), after 100 games I have some questions(I copied the sets from the strategy dex and then tweaked some things I think detrimentally...)

The reason I don't believe it's ready for an RMT is threefold.

1. First team I have put together, and I really want to use the "Fantasy Core" (Hippo/M-Lucario/Dragonite) but am not actually sure how to build it properly after those three.
2. I need to make some changes and am struggling against things such as Greninja, minimize baton pass teams, M-Venasaur(Thick Fat, seems to wall me pretty well) and Suicune.
3. EV Spreads, these are all basic but I think that might be optimal for these Pokemon, however my team seems probably a bit "sweeper" heavy and needs a bit more support as I often go down quickly if the first few turns don't go my way.(first 100 battles of pokemon I've ever had too I guess).

I'll put the output from showdown and highlight things I think need changing a bit with a short summary.




Dragonite (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake

This set is good but maybe I should go with Choice Band or Lum Berry here, Is it worth trying the EV's to survive things like Greninja Ice beam, I find I do get OHKOd even with multiscale semi-often. Weakness policy and dragon dance is pretty amazing when it happens but maybe its over-kill anyway?, I probably don't know speed tiers well enough as to when I'm faster or not yet either I think.

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast

In 100 games I think I have used Cloyster about 4 times, 3 of which he just died in one hit after I shell smash(not good at using, he possibly doesn't work like dragonite..), I do feel like people never bring Garchomp or other dragons against me much and it could be because of this guy however, I don't know if that's enough to justify a team slot.

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 62 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Hypnosis
- Clear Smog
- Focus Blast

So I saw that casino Gengar set on here and thought it looked really fun, then I struggled a lot against some minimize baton pass calm mind teams and figured I'd get more mileage out of clear smog than Destiny Bond (which I never used).

This Pokemon has won me a lot of games from the lead 3-0 but as the set is a bit "casino" if you don't land those Hypnosis or Focus Blast it can also be pretty useless.(I'd say its won me a lot more than lost me however).
Would this work as a Focus Sash user instead of mega-stone? sometimes I want to bring Lucario and Gengar but it feels weird to have a useless item on one of them. I will probably change Clear Smog back to destiny bond (after seeing some videos of other people using it well) But also need an answer to those teams (FYI Clear Smog on Gengar hasn't cleared a single status boost yet he just dies or they don't try the same stuff anyway somehow..)

Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Serious Nature
IVs: 25 Spe
- Yawn
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

I was getting OHKO'd by a lot of special attacks (Greninja and maybe some others), so I thought I'd use the SpD variant, however now I find he lives too long and by the time they kill him they have either set up a bit, sandstorm finished and possibly only chipped one pokemon, which might have some recovery move anyway. I might change Earthquake back to something that hits levitate/flying pokemon as I find I don't have any attacks to use fairly often if I have already put up rocks and yawned but they still don't switch, stalling longer seems to be a bad move often.

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Vacuum Wave

I changed Nasty Plot to I think Aura Sphere, also an attempt to counter minimize strategies and I found I'd usually die if I tried to set up for a turn with Nasty Plot (because it doesn't increase my speed, so if something is faster than me it will get to 2HKO me before I can attack). I feel I should go back to Nasty Plot and just learn to counter better, but maybe not use Focus Blast it can miss a bit too often.

Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Psychic

I am thinking I will change Fire Blast to Fiery Dance, otherwise this set is good, however if I give Dragonite the Lum Berry I will have to find something else to use.

so TLDR;

• I never use Cloyster, I would like to switch him, I do have a Timid Thundurus with max SpA, Spe and HP iv's I can use, open to other suggestions. I haven't caught a lot of the legendaries because I didn't know what stats to go for yet.
• Need a few tips on move-sets.
• Is casino Gengar viable in non-mega form?(Focus Sash)
• Evasion Boosting / Baton Pass teams are a bit problematic as are M-Venasaur and Greninja.
• Is it worth making dragonite more bulky, keeping weakness policy so I can do one dragon dance and survive an ice beam (if possible), activate weakness policy and dragon dance for super-saiyan?
• Happy to switch any poke really that isn't Dragonite/Lucario/Hippowdon

I'm ok to lose to some strategies, I think I'd rather have a strong matchup against the majority than worrying about losing to small niches often, and as people have said showdown meta and actual BattleSpot are different I don't know if I'll see as much minimize/baton pass shenanigans.

Thanks in advance for any and all assistance, just want to iron some things out before I finish it on cart. If this should be in the RMT please let me know but I don't feel the team is finished per-se, just things I've tried.

Focus sash on Cloyster if you are going to use him.

Extreme speed weakness policy Dnite sounds good on paper, but it's risky if the opponent opts to WoW or Twave instead..lum berry is the safer option. WP would be good if you're making your Dnite a pure revenge killer, in which case, I'd change the EVs to maximize survivability vs Greninja Ice beam/max attack, replace DD with an extra coverage move, T-wave, Roost, or maybe even Safeguard... DD is typically paired with lum berry.

You can use that gengar if you want, although a more typical set with that kind of EV spread would be a Taunt/Destiny bond/Focus Blast/Hex, with the intention of trapping and killing crippled pokemon, Hippowdon, Chansey, Ferrothorn, Klefki, and other stall users (this gets super countered by Sableye and Espeon though).

If you're using a suicide hippo, replace Slack off with Rock Tomb instead. If you intend on switching him out a lot, you would need a dedicated SpD wall.

Standard M-lucario minus NP...i would personally keep the NP instead of focus blast and support your lucario with either rock tomb from hippo or icy wind from gengar.

Get rid of either Volcarona or Cloyster...you don't need to double up on set-up sweepers, plus they are both ruined by SR. Maybe replace one of them with AV Conkeldurr or an AV Azumarill? Suicune, P2, Rotom-W, or Cresselia could also work here, if you want a more defensive option.

 

[cant say]

So after playing for a while in OU singles & doubles I decided to give BSSingles a try,and it has been incredible fun actually, teambuilding seems different since mons tend to have sometimes 2 roles at the same time and try to stand against the meta with just 3 mons instead of 6, of course the mons that are viable are somewhat less but who cares when I can use Blaziken?

So I was testing with a team around Blaziken, Raikou and Megamence.

Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- High Jump Kick
- Protect


Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Light Screen

Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 132 Atk / 252 Def / 124 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Spear

I am messing with Piloswine since it actually gives me the opportunity to serve as a check to common physical threats that mess with my team(ScarfChomp for example) but I would like an opinion of what the usual teammates or builds fit with Blaziken,Megamence and/or Raikou.

Raikou helps with special threats, mainly Zapdos and Thundurus alongside giving me access to attacking from the special side.

I have the general idea but dont really know deeply the meta, so any help would be appreciated.

Either Ferrothorn or bulky Serperior would fit nicely. You really need a check to Kangaskhan and both do the job well, while also being able to check Water-types for Blaziken / Salamence.

I bought into the Piloswine hype a little while ago thanks to Theorymon so I'd love to see you keep using it, however I don't think it actually does anything for you here. The aforementioned Hippowdon would be a fine replacement, however I think you'd get way more mileage out of a Swampert with the same build as you currently have nothing for Mamoswine.

Physical Life Orb Blaziken isn't bad, but it's usually done better with its mega stone, a Lum Berry, or Focus Sash. Life Orb is real cool on mixed Blaziken so you could give that a try. Baton Pass is more fun than Knock Off in my opinion.

For Raikou; firstly, I'm not really sure what you're trying to do with it, it looks like it's trying to do too many jobs. Leftovers is usually used on the SubCM set, Volt Switch is (mostly) used on Specs sets, and Light Screen is used with Reflect and Light Clay as a lead, but not all those things together, so I think you need to decide on a specific role for it in your team first. I've used SubCM alongside Salamence + Swampert a lot and I really like it, but alongside Blaziken I think a Specs set would be best for pivoting into a favourable matchup for Blaziken. Secondly, you look weak to Garchomp, which is why I think Zapdos would work way better for you as it at least gives you a Ground-immunity (Outrage can be played around in my experience).

For the sixth slot you probably want an Ice-resist / bulky offense mon. Suicune or Porygon2 both fit well I think.

Example team:

Hide

Blaziken @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 SpA / 220 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Static (if you can get one on cart, otherwise Pressure is fine)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Heat Wave
- Volt Switch

Swampert @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn
- Scald
- Roar

Serperior @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 116 HP / 220 Def / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
- Glare
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis / Taunt
- Reflect / Taunt

Suicune @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam / Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Rest

Full disclosure: this team may not be great as I just made it up on the spot. Hydreigon looks threatening, as well as Stall / Unaware Clefable. If you're just starting out you might want to come hang out in our room on Pokemon Showdown (Battle Spot) and chat in realtime with someone!

 

[Roxachronic]

Hippowdon is all the rage nowadays, with chip damage, shuffle, and stealth rock support for unboosted sweepers. He'd fit on your team rather nicely, and you'll want a better check/counter than Piloswine for opposing Hippos as well. Suicune, Rotom-W, etc would probably fit the bill. I would also consider using a Specs or Scarfed Sylveon here, as it would be able to significantly dent a lot of Blaziken's and Salamence's checks, who aren't covered by Raikou, with Hyper Voice/HP Fire/Psyshock, and dent a lot of the meta game as well. Talonflame revenge kill and sweep is also a big concern if Raikou can't be used/is fainted. A bold Rotom-W with volt switch would fit your team pretty well.



Focus sash on Cloyster if you are going to use him.

Extreme speed weakness policy Dnite sounds good on paper, but it's risky if the opponent opts to WoW or Twave instead..lum berry is the safer option. WP would be good if you're making your Dnite a pure revenge killer, in which case, I'd change the EVs to maximize survivability vs Greninja Ice beam/max attack, replace DD with an extra coverage move, T-wave, Roost, or maybe even Safeguard... DD is typically paired with lum berry.

You can use that gengar if you want, although a more typical set with that kind of EV spread would be a Taunt/Destiny bond/Focus Blast/Hex, with the intention of trapping and killing crippled pokemon, Hippowdon, Chansey, Ferrothorn, Klefki, and other stall users (this gets super countered by Sableye and Espeon though).

If you're using a suicide hippo, replace Slack off with Rock Tomb instead. If you intend on switching him out a lot, you would need a dedicated SpD wall.

Standard M-lucario minus NP...i would personally keep the NP instead of focus blast and support your lucario with either rock tomb from hippo or icy wind from gengar.

Get rid of either Volcarona or Cloyster...you don't need to double up on set-up sweepers, plus they are both ruined by SR. Maybe replace one of them with AV Conkeldurr or an AV Azumarill? Suicune, P2, Rotom-W, or Cresselia could also work here, if you want a more defensive option.

Yeah I have also tought of Suicune, but wasn't that sure, I suppose the CM+Roar set could fit very well.

Either Ferrothorn or bulky Serperior would fit nicely. You really need a check to Kangaskhan and both do the job well, while also being able to check Water-types for Blaziken / Salamence.

I bought into the Piloswine hype a little while ago thanks to Theorymon so I'd love to see you keep using it, however I don't think it actually does anything for you here. The aforementioned Hippowdon would be a fine replacement, however I think you'd get way more mileage out of a Swampert with the same build as you currently have nothing for Mamoswine.

Physical Life Orb Blaziken isn't bad, but it's usually done better with its mega stone, a Lum Berry, or Focus Sash. Life Orb is real cool on mixed Blaziken so you could give that a try. Baton Pass is more fun than Knock Off in my opinion.

For Raikou; firstly, I'm not really sure what you're trying to do with it, it looks like it's trying to do too many jobs. Leftovers is usually used on the SubCM set, Volt Switch is (mostly) used on Specs sets, and Light Screen is used with Reflect and Light Clay as a lead, but not all those things together, so I think you need to decide on a specific role for it in your team first. I've used SubCM alongside Salamence + Swampert a lot and I really like it, but alongside Blaziken I think a Specs set would be best for pivoting into a favourable matchup for Blaziken. Secondly, you look weak to Garchomp, which is why I think Zapdos would work way better for you as it at least gives you a Ground-immunity (Outrage can be played around in my experience).

For the sixth slot you probably want an Ice-resist / bulky offense mon. Suicune or Porygon2 both fit well I think.

Example team:

Hide

Blaziken @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 SpA / 220 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Static (if you can get one on cart, otherwise Pressure is fine)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Heat Wave
- Volt Switch

Swampert @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn
- Scald
- Roar

Serperior @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 116 HP / 220 Def / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
- Glare
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis / Taunt
- Reflect / Taunt

Suicune @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam / Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Rest

Full disclosure: this team may not be great as I just made it up on the spot. Hydreigon looks threatening, as well as Stall / Unaware Clefable. If you're just starting out you might want to come hang out in our room on Pokemon Showdown (Battle Spot) and chat in realtime with someone!

Well Piloswine has its uses, especially letting me have less of a burden when switching, also it can even handle a +2 Outrage and kill back with Icicle + Ice Shard, checks Talonflame really well also, of course it doesn't fare that well against water mons, gonna mess with it a little more in the meantime.

The Serperior idea is great, it helps me a lot with Water mons, especially against things like Rotom-W and Suicune.

Well the Raikou set is serving as a special check, I usually dont run Reflect because it doesn't let me run Tbolt, and Volt Switch+HP Ice help me a lot, I was considering an AV set because it does not give crap about Zapdos, Thundurus, but it seems the CM set would be better for that since it also serves as a wincon, so I will try switching into that, dont like Specs that much because sometimes is too much of a gamble when they have have Lando-T or Garchomp.

Blaziken with Focus Sash seems good, but what you trade for Flare Blitz? I suppose Blaze Kick?, also like the idea of Baton Pass, could work pretty well with SubCM Raikou since ar +1 it doesn't get outrun by pretty much anything.

Thanks a lot for the reply gonna try some of the ideas.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

laziken with Focus Sash seems good, but what you trade for Flare Blitz? I suppose Blaze Kick?, also like the idea of Baton Pass, could work pretty well with SubCM Raikou since ar +1 it doesn't get outrun by pretty much anything.

Thanks a lot for the reply gonna try some of the ideas.

Blaze Kick is horrible, no. Typically, if Blaziken must forgo Flare Blitz for Sash, it runs Overheat or Fire Blast, on a Mixed set. I don't have an exact spread on me, but I'm sure someone can throw something out here. Something like Fire Blast / Protect / HP Ice / Superpower.

 

[Jam Joestar]

Hey guys! I've had very extremely moderate success on Showdown in the past and now that I'd like to get off the PS-train and start breeding mons for Battle Spot. That being said, I've only been poking around for a few hours and I'm still a novice, with most of my knowledge being of the OU metagame. Which means I'm not used to having to deal with the possibility of seeing Mega Kangaskhan all the time, or Mega Blaziken and Mega Gengar for example. Still, it's not entirely dissimilar, so here's what I've got so far from a team I originally wanted to try in OU before deciding to start reading up on Battle Spot instead.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast

Mamoswine @ Expert Belt
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Freeze-Dry

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 44 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Flash Cannon
- Toxic

Charizard X and Thundurus as an offensive core is something I picked up on the forums and wanted to have a go at. ChariXard is a threat to dragons and steel types alike, which run pretty rampant in the upper echelons of competitive Pokemon, and it's a great physical sweeper -- Thundurus, on the other hand, is all about picking off defensive mons that ChariXard can't handle. Prankster + Thunder Wave softens up faster threats, Thunderbolt and Grass Knot hits dangerous water types, and Focus Blast hits some of Thundurus' own threats -- I can't really bet on getting HP Ice, and I've got Mamoswine for that.

Mamoswine with Thick Fat is a Ground-type that won't really have to worry about getting blasted by the Ice that threatens both my sweepers and aside from picking off Electric types, Freeze-Dry threatens Water-types too. Earthquake is the #1 STAB move to go for, Ice Shard is the priority this thing needs given its speed stat, and I'm not so sure about Icicle Crash.

I chose Heatran because I wanted something to threaten Fairy types, not worry too much about entry hazards and have one of my own. Magma Storm and Flash Cannon is to kill off walls that Thundurus or ChariXard can't break through, especially if they're things like Unaware Clefable. Maybe I should have Taunt instead of Toxic to mess with other hazard entry setters.

That leaves me with two (!!) slots and a team that could go either way (totally offensive or balanced). I can't quite wrap my head around what I'm supposed to worry about the most, and about whether my core and two choices are even recommended. Any advice from some veterans or general players in here?

 

[ethan06]

hey there! moderate jojo fan here so I appreciate the name ^.^ this team looks pretty good so far. I feel like the four mons you have are reasonably solid, but you still have a couple of outstanding weaknesses. Azumarill is the most worrying weakness that I can see; it gets an easy Belly Drum against Charizard and Heatran and you have absolutely nothing to take a +6 Aqua Jet, besides sacking Thundurus for a Thunder Wave and hoping you get lucky with paralysis. Assault Vest Azu is a problem as well because of its greater tanking ability, which means it can afford to sit in front of Charizard and beat it down while eating boosted Flare Blitzes, and also take much less from Freeze-Dry. You could potentially have issues with other bulky Waters as well. The other big problem I can see is Ground-types: I know that Mamoswine is the one big counter to Garchomp and Lando, but Tyranitar/Hippo+Excadrill could prove to be troublesome for your team. Both Thundurus and Mamoswine can take a hit from full and KO Excadrill in return, but a) they do occasionally run Sash, b) if the setter lays Stealth Rock your chance of survival is reduced to nil and c) Focus Blast misses and Mamoswine risks getting Iron Head flinched. I'd suggest running a bulky Water of your own to try and combat both of these issues in one slot. Rotom-Wash, Suicune and Jellicent are probably the most viable considerations. I'd look into Ferrothorn too if a Water-type isn't to your taste as it does much the same thing.

 

[Niadev]

Hey guys! I've had very extremely moderate success on Showdown in the past and now that I'd like to get off the PS-train and start breeding mons for Battle Spot. That being said, I've only been poking around for a few hours and I'm still a novice, with most of my knowledge being of the OU metagame. Which means I'm not used to having to deal with the possibility of seeing Mega Kangaskhan all the time, or Mega Blaziken and Mega Gengar for example. Still, it's not entirely dissimilar, so here's what I've got so far from a team I originally wanted to try in OU before deciding to start reading up on Battle Spot instead.



Charizard X and Thundurus as an offensive core is something I picked up on the forums and wanted to have a go at. ChariXard is a threat to dragons and steel types alike, which run pretty rampant in the upper echelons of competitive Pokemon, and it's a great physical sweeper -- Thundurus, on the other hand, is all about picking off defensive mons that ChariXard can't handle. Prankster + Thunder Wave softens up faster threats, Thunderbolt and Grass Knot hits dangerous water types, and Focus Blast hits some of Thundurus' own threats -- I can't really bet on getting HP Ice, and I've got Mamoswine for that.

Mamoswine with Thick Fat is a Ground-type that won't really have to worry about getting blasted by the Ice that threatens both my sweepers and aside from picking off Electric types, Freeze-Dry threatens Water-types too. Earthquake is the #1 STAB move to go for, Ice Shard is the priority this thing needs given its speed stat, and I'm not so sure about Icicle Crash.

I chose Heatran because I wanted something to threaten Fairy types, not worry too much about entry hazards and have one of my own. Magma Storm and Flash Cannon is to kill off walls that Thundurus or ChariXard can't break through, especially if they're things like Unaware Clefable. Maybe I should have Taunt instead of Toxic to mess with other hazard entry setters.

That leaves me with two (!!) slots and a team that could go either way (totally offensive or balanced). I can't quite wrap my head around what I'm supposed to worry about the most, and about whether my core and two choices are even recommended. Any advice from some veterans or general players in here?

I'm no Battle Spot singles expert (primarily a Smogon player myself haha), but at the minute, your team has a pretty big issue with Mega Kangaskhan, with your best check, Mega Xard, relying on a speed tie vs Jolly variants and not even OHKOing anyways, though it does come close, while Mega Kangaskhan can KO it back easily with Earthquake or normal STAB into a potential sucker punch. There's a few potential routes you can go here. One, you could change Mega Charizard X out for a Mega Salamence, who, while not a surefire answer, is more reliable than Mega Charizard X. You have Fairy issues, even with Heatran, as Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill and Mega Altaria can eliminate it. However, Mega Salamence can beat Azumarill and Mega Gardevoir well, and to a degree Mega Altaria, as well as Mega Kangaskhan somewhat reliably (and it also stops BD Azu, something the other two options can't do amazingly well on their own) with Double Edge and an Adamant nature, outspeeding all 4 of those unboosted and easily eating a +6 Azu's AJ due it it's imMence (hah) physical bulk and KOing back. Mega Salamence pairs fantastically with Mamoswine as well, as Mamo can beat Garchomp, set rocks, and be generally threatening to their shared counters, especially with Freeze Dry like your variant has. Alternatively, if you don't want to give up Xard, you could go Aegislash, which can check all three fairies and Mega Kang, but Knock off BD Azu can still wallop Aegi and wear it down for potential Mega Kangaskhan.

If you go the Mence route, a bulky water like Defensive Suicune could be good as it can beat opposing Mamoswines while also providing a backup answer to Mega Kangaskhan, who can potentially beat Mega Salamence even after Intimidate with the rare Ice Beam. Trust me, I've been caught out by that before. Suicune also provides a secondary answer to Mega Blaziken and Mega Salamence if Thundurus isn't great in it's matchup for whatever reason. A grass type like Serperior could be a useful last Pokemon to beat or at least weaken the fat Pokemon Mega Mence struggles with and double checking Azumarill. Another option over Serperior could be Trick Specs Rotom-W, who can cripple fat 'mons by tricking Specs to them while also being an ok answer to Greninja, but then you double on a grass weakness, though, admittedly, Mamoswine beats most grasses with Ice Shard. You could run Defensive Serperior and run TrickSpecs Rotom to have both a Kang and a Greninja check but feel free to run whichever one you feel fits your team better.

Going the Aegislash route, I'd run something that removes fat waters and provides a backup Kang check like Serperior. Serperior's defensive set (Solid Snake on Smogon's dex) would be good as with Taunt, it can cripple Suicune and other fat Pokemon, Leaf Storm to boost up, and Reflect lets it at least weaken Kang while making it take chip from Rocky Helmet, putting it in range of a partner. Serperior also beats BD Azu, who is still a big threat.

imo I'd go the Mega Salamence route as it makes you less Kang weak than Aegi, though that might just be my personal bias towards Mega Salamence. To be honest, though, Serperior looks pretty good either way, as you won't be guaranteed to bring Thundurus and it provides a more reliable fat 'mon breaker, especially with Taunt.

 

[cant say]

Hey guys! I've had very extremely moderate success on Showdown in the past and now that I'd like to get off the PS-train and start breeding mons for Battle Spot. That being said, I've only been poking around for a few hours and I'm still a novice, with most of my knowledge being of the OU metagame. Which means I'm not used to having to deal with the possibility of seeing Mega Kangaskhan all the time, or Mega Blaziken and Mega Gengar for example. Still, it's not entirely dissimilar, so here's what I've got so far from a team I originally wanted to try in OU before deciding to start reading up on Battle Spot instead.



Charizard X and Thundurus as an offensive core is something I picked up on the forums and wanted to have a go at. ChariXard is a threat to dragons and steel types alike, which run pretty rampant in the upper echelons of competitive Pokemon, and it's a great physical sweeper -- Thundurus, on the other hand, is all about picking off defensive mons that ChariXard can't handle. Prankster + Thunder Wave softens up faster threats, Thunderbolt and Grass Knot hits dangerous water types, and Focus Blast hits some of Thundurus' own threats -- I can't really bet on getting HP Ice, and I've got Mamoswine for that.

Mamoswine with Thick Fat is a Ground-type that won't really have to worry about getting blasted by the Ice that threatens both my sweepers and aside from picking off Electric types, Freeze-Dry threatens Water-types too. Earthquake is the #1 STAB move to go for, Ice Shard is the priority this thing needs given its speed stat, and I'm not so sure about Icicle Crash.

I chose Heatran because I wanted something to threaten Fairy types, not worry too much about entry hazards and have one of my own. Magma Storm and Flash Cannon is to kill off walls that Thundurus or ChariXard can't break through, especially if they're things like Unaware Clefable. Maybe I should have Taunt instead of Toxic to mess with other hazard entry setters.

That leaves me with two (!!) slots and a team that could go either way (totally offensive or balanced). I can't quite wrap my head around what I'm supposed to worry about the most, and about whether my core and two choices are even recommended. Any advice from some veterans or general players in here?

I think you're maybe a little too worried about Water-types at the moment, as ChariXard beats basically all of them except Azumarill and Slowbro, it even won Victim of the Week when we looked at Suicune! This is why Serperior is such a good teammate for ChariXard, this also gives you a much needed Mega Kangaskhan check if you use the bulky set from our Strategy Dex.

I think you should change Mamoswine to an Assault Vest set with Fissure over Freeze-Dry. You need it so you don't auto-lose to Unaware Minimize Clefable.

Specially-defensive versions of Rotom-H and Talonflame are usually more reliable Sylveon / Mega Gardevoir checks since they aren't bopped by Hidden Power Ground, but since you want Stealth Rock I think your Heatran is fine unless you make your sixth mon your rocker. You could try using one of Heatom/Talon with a support Clefable in the last slot with rocks, this would give you a great check to Hydreigon / Scarf/Band Garchomp as well.

 

[Jam Joestar]

Yo! So many ideas :O

hey there! moderate jojo fan here so I appreciate the name ^.^ this team looks pretty good so far. I feel like the four mons you have are reasonably solid, but you still have a couple of outstanding weaknesses. Azumarill is the most worrying weakness that I can see; it gets an easy Belly Drum against Charizard and Heatran and you have absolutely nothing to take a +6 Aqua Jet, besides sacking Thundurus for a Thunder Wave and hoping you get lucky with paralysis. Assault Vest Azu is a problem as well because of its greater tanking ability, which means it can afford to sit in front of Charizard and beat it down while eating boosted Flare Blitzes, and also take much less from Freeze-Dry. You could potentially have issues with other bulky Waters as well. The other big problem I can see is Ground-types: I know that Mamoswine is the one big counter to Garchomp and Lando, but Tyranitar/Hippo+Excadrill could prove to be troublesome for your team. Both Thundurus and Mamoswine can take a hit from full and KO Excadrill in return, but a) they do occasionally run Sash, b) if the setter lays Stealth Rock your chance of survival is reduced to nil and c) Focus Blast misses and Mamoswine risks getting Iron Head flinched. I'd suggest running a bulky Water of your own to try and combat both of these issues in one slot. Rotom-Wash, Suicune and Jellicent are probably the most viable considerations. I'd look into Ferrothorn too if a Water-type isn't to your taste as it does much the same thing.

Hmm, you're right. Looking at the other considerations, Serperior is 100% being added to this team. It's not a bulky water type, but defensively it does a good job of tackling whatever Xard/Thundurus can't throw off, except perhaps Fairies. I'm also eyeing Suicune.

I'm no Battle Spot singles expert (primarily a Smogon player myself haha), but at the minute, your team has a pretty big issue with Mega Kangaskhan, with your best check, Mega Xard, relying on a speed tie vs Jolly variants and not even OHKOing anyways, though it does come close, while Mega Kangaskhan can KO it back easily with Earthquake or normal STAB into a potential sucker punch. There's a few potential routes you can go here. One, you could change Mega Charizard X out for a Mega Salamence, who, while not a surefire answer, is more reliable than Mega Charizard X. You have Fairy issues, even with Heatran, as Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill and Mega Altaria can eliminate it. However, Mega Salamence can beat Azumarill and Mega Gardevoir well, and to a degree Mega Altaria, as well as Mega Kangaskhan somewhat reliably (and it also stops BD Azu, something the other two options can't do amazingly well on their own) with Double Edge and an Adamant nature, outspeeding all 4 of those unboosted and easily eating a +6 Azu's AJ due it it's imMence (hah) physical bulk and KOing back. Mega Salamence pairs fantastically with Mamoswine as well, as Mamo can beat Garchomp, set rocks, and be generally threatening to their shared counters, especially with Freeze Dry like your variant has. Alternatively, if you don't want to give up Xard, you could go Aegislash, which can check all three fairies and Mega Kang, but Knock off BD Azu can still wallop Aegi and wear it down for potential Mega Kangaskhan.

If you go the Mence route, a bulky water like Defensive Suicune could be good as it can beat opposing Mamoswines while also providing a backup answer to Mega Kangaskhan, who can potentially beat Mega Salamence even after Intimidate with the rare Ice Beam. Trust me, I've been caught out by that before. Suicune also provides a secondary answer to Mega Blaziken and Mega Salamence if Thundurus isn't great in it's matchup for whatever reason. A grass type like Serperior could be a useful last Pokemon to beat or at least weaken the fat Pokemon Mega Mence struggles with and double checking Azumarill. Another option over Serperior could be Trick Specs Rotom-W, who can cripple fat 'mons by tricking Specs to them while also being an ok answer to Greninja, but then you double on a grass weakness, though, admittedly, Mamoswine beats most grasses with Ice Shard. You could run Defensive Serperior and run TrickSpecs Rotom to have both a Kang and a Greninja check but feel free to run whichever one you feel fits your team better.

Going the Aegislash route, I'd run something that removes fat waters and provides a backup Kang check like Serperior. Serperior's defensive set (Solid Snake on Smogon's dex) would be good as with Taunt, it can cripple Suicune and other fat Pokemon, Leaf Storm to boost up, and Reflect lets it at least weaken Kang while making it take chip from Rocky Helmet, putting it in range of a partner. Serperior also beats BD Azu, who is still a big threat.

imo I'd go the Mega Salamence route as it makes you less Kang weak than Aegi, though that might just be my personal bias towards Mega Salamence. To be honest, though, Serperior looks pretty good either way, as you won't be guaranteed to bring Thundurus and it provides a more reliable fat 'mon breaker, especially with Taunt.

Definitely noting the usefulness of Serperior here, although I think I'll stick to Xard over Mence. That being said, I will consider running Outrage on it over Dragon Claw with the caveat that I'll have to be mighty careful of Fairy-types (that's what counter-checks are for, right?), and maybe SD rather than DD. Not sure if I'll miss the speed boost?

I'll have to run calcs later, but if I make the right play that should give me a check to Kang, no? If not, that's definitely still on my threat list. I'm liking the addition of Rotom-H to the team, though, as a burner will really piss off Mega Kang.

I want to do something with a dragon and Aegislash in the future though, maybe with some hazard setters and Aegislash as a spin blocker. Maybe Sylveon to complete a fantasy core? Gonna focus on this team first though.

I think you're maybe a little too worried about Water-types at the moment, as ChariXard beats basically all of them except Azumarill and Slowbro, it even won Victim of the Week when we looked at Suicune! This is why Serperior is such a good teammate for ChariXard, this also gives you a much needed Mega Kangaskhan check if you use the bulky set from our Strategy Dex.

I think you should change Mamoswine to an Assault Vest set with Fissure over Freeze-Dry. You need it so you don't auto-lose to Unaware Minimize Clefable.

Specially-defensive versions of Rotom-H and Talonflame are usually more reliable Sylveon / Mega Gardevoir checks since they aren't bopped by Hidden Power Ground, but since you want Stealth Rock I think your Heatran is fine unless you make your sixth mon your rocker. You could try using one of Heatom/Talon with a support Clefable in the last slot with rocks, this would give you a great check to Hydreigon / Scarf/Band Garchomp as well.

I checked that link out; interesting calcs, but I noticed that the Xard was running SD and Outrage over DD + DC, and being Adamant gave him a small boost too. Unless I really have to, I'd like to stick to Jolly since that's what I've actually got on cart -- but if the speed buff doesn't matter quite as much, SD and Outrage sound like a good suggestion to hit things harder, eh?

Fissure over Freeze-Dry makes me a little nervous, especially since I gave up fire moves on Heatran to have Magma Storm + Flash Cannon as a Fairy solution. I see the concern regarding HP Ground though. As for the rocks, well: I'm a simple man. I make a team. I need some hazards. I know they're not necessary but it's a thing, and it helps considering the other fliers out there. One of my favorite teams involves Skarm and Tentacruel just stalling, roaring and setting up hazards all the time, heh.

I could just drop Heatran for one of the more effective options you listed, but aside from Freeze Dry, what other changes do you suggest regarding movesets? The priority move and Earthquake on Mamo is necessary, but do I need Icicle Crash if Ice Shard kills most Grass threats anyways? Or would it stop killing most things without the LO boost if I switch to AV (can't do calcs at the moment)?

Support Clef sounds good too, because as you noted, faster dragons are dangerous.

All that being said, this has been really helpful -- I think I've even got a full team of six in mind (Mega-Charizard X, Thundurus, Mamoswine, Serperior, Rotom-Heat, Clefable)! That being said, I'd appreciate some more advice on Xard and Mamoswine's movesets before I put the finishing touches on it all.

I'm also not entirely sure whether I should have Rotom-Heat or Rotom-Wash on the crew, seeing as how a bulky water type can help ward off those pesky ground types mentioned earlier, and I get to run both Volt Switch and Will-o-Wisp on a Ground-immune mon and something to face Azu in-case Serp is out of the picture.

Rotom-Heat will be handy against things like Skarmory and Ferrothorn, but Xard can take care of both and I'm sure Skarmory doesn't appreciate Volt Switch into Xard.

 

[cant say]

I want to do something with a dragon and Aegislash in the future though, maybe with some hazard setters and Aegislash as a spin blocker. Maybe Sylveon to complete a fantasy core? Gonna focus on this team first though.

You will literally never see Rapid Spin or Defog in Battle Spot.

I checked that link out; interesting calcs, but I noticed that the Xard was running SD and Outrage over DD + DC, and being Adamant gave him a small boost too. Unless I really have to, I'd like to stick to Jolly since that's what I've actually got on cart -- but if the speed buff doesn't matter quite as much, SD and Outrage sound like a good suggestion to hit things harder, eh?

The point was mostly that Suicune can't really do anything back to Xard so you can DD + Roost until you have enough boosts. However, SD + Flame Charge is an amazing set so maybe think about it (Jolly is fine)

Fissure over Freeze-Dry makes me a little nervous, especially since I gave up fire moves on Heatran to have Magma Storm + Flash Cannon as a Fairy solution. I see the concern regarding HP Ground though. As for the rocks, well: I'm a simple man. I make a team. I need some hazards. I know they're not necessary but it's a thing, and it helps considering the other fliers out there. One of my favorite teams involves Skarm and Tentacruel just stalling, roaring and setting up hazards all the time, heh.

Heatran can only beat Unaware Clefable. The odd Magic Guard option with Minimize + Calm Mind walls you hard. After boosting evasion, a 30% OHKO from Fissure is your best option (OHKO moves ignore accuracy checks). The Assault Vest Mamo set on our Strategy Dex tanks boosted Moonblast and Stored Power from Clef relatively well and gives you a great check to Thundurus and Mega Gengar to take some of the burden off Heatran / Rotom-H / Talonflame(you will see Thund+Gar teams a lot so this is necessary).

I could just drop Heatran for one of the more effective options you listed, but aside from Freeze Dry, what other changes do you suggest regarding movesets? The priority move and Earthquake on Mamo is necessary, but do I need Icicle Crash if Ice Shard kills most Grass threats anyways? Or would it stop killing most things without the LO boost if I switch to AV (can't do calcs at the moment)?

Life Orb Ice Shard doesn't kill really any Grass-types except maybe Mega Sceptile which isn't used anyway. I guess the biggest loss is that the AssVest set doesn't OHKO Garchomp, but you have both Serperior and Clefable to wall the hell out of it I guess. You should look at using Icicle Spear over Crash though. Better accuracy, hits through subs, breaks sashes etc etc.

Support Clef sounds good too, because as you noted, faster dragons are dangerous.

All that being said, this has been really helpful -- I think I've even got a full team of six in mind (Mega-Charizard X, Thundurus, Mamoswine, Serperior, Rotom-Heat, Clefable)! That being said, I'd appreciate some more advice on Xard and Mamoswine's movesets before I put the finishing touches on it all.

I'm also not entirely sure whether I should have Rotom-Heat or Rotom-Wash on the crew, seeing as how a bulky water type can help ward off those pesky ground types mentioned earlier, and I get to run both Volt Switch and Will-o-Wisp on a Ground-immune mon and something to face Azu in-case Serp is out of the picture.

Rotom-Heat will be handy against things like Skarmory and Ferrothorn, but Xard can take care of both and I'm sure Skarmory doesn't appreciate Volt Switch into Xard.

Unaware Clefable can handle non-Choice Band Azumarill usually as well, and if it reveals itself to be banded then Serperior comes in and has a field day.

I think mostly you just have to be wary of Tyranitar + Excadrill teams, actually just Excadrill in general as Scarf Mold Breaker is maybe even worse than Sand Rush. Serperior handles both versions but it has to be very careful of the Salamence that are normally paired with them..

 

[Jam Joestar]

No hazard resetters? Oh man, I was wondering why there were pretty much no Rapid Spin/Defog users high up on the viability list.

Ugh, I must've made a mistake noting down my sets a while back. Pretty sure I had Icicle Spear on my OU Mamo, but it was listed as Icicle Crash probably because I was tired or something. Definitely adding Serp and Clef to the team and keeping them, and I guess I'll decide on what to replace Heatran with later. Is there a reason you'd recommend Rotom-H over Rotom-W though? Because of Overheat?

 

[cant say]

No hazard resetters? Oh man, I was wondering why there were pretty much no Rapid Spin/Defog users high up on the viability list.

Ugh, I must've made a mistake noting down my sets a while back. Pretty sure I had Icicle Spear on my OU Mamo, but it was listed as Icicle Crash probably because I was tired or something. Definitely adding Serp and Clef to the team and keeping them, and I guess I'll decide on what to replace Heatran with later. Is there a reason you'd recommend Rotom-H over Rotom-W though? Because of Overheat?

If you replace Heatran with Rotom-W you have zero Sylveon / Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice or Mega Mawile switch-in. Rotom-W could work instead of Clefable, I mainly suggested Clef under the assumption you were dropping Heatran for Rotom-H or Talonflame and therefor your rocks setter. If you keep Heatran then Clef isn't needed so bad I guess. But I think [Fire-type] + Clefable is better for your team than [Fire-type] + Rotom-W.

 

[Jam Joestar]

If you replace Heatran with Rotom-W you have zero Sylveon / Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice or Mega Mawile switch-in. Rotom-W could work instead of Clefable, I mainly suggested Clef under the assumption you were dropping Heatran for Rotom-H or Talonflame and therefor your rocks setter. If you keep Heatran then Clef isn't needed so bad I guess. But I think [Fire-type] + Clefable is better for your team than [Fire-type] + Rotom-W.

Hm. Alright! I wasn't planning on replacing Clef with Rotom-W, just going Clef + Rotom-W rather than Clef + Rotom-H. That way I'd still have a switch in against fairies, mm.

 

[cant say]

Hm. Alright! I wasn't planning on replacing Clef with Rotom-W, just going Clef + Rotom-W rather than Clef + Rotom-H. That way I'd still have a switch in against fairies, mm.

Xard / Thund / Mamo / Rotom-W / Serp / Clef

no you don't.

 

[Jam Joestar]

Xard / Thund / Mamo / Rotom-W / Serp / Clef

no you don't.

Okay, so since I'm being very slow: the reason SpD Rotom-H and Talonflame check Sylveon and Gardevoir is because they can hit em a lot harder than Rotom-W because Overheat/Acrobatics?

 

[Omastar68]

Okay, so since I'm being very slow: the reason SpD Rotom-H and Talonflame check Sylveon and Gardevoir is because they can hit em a lot harder than Rotom-W because Overheat/Acrobatics?

SpDef Rotom-h is an ok check because it can even take Psyshock from Mega Garde pretty well, and resisting Pixilayed Hyper Voice means it is often ok even at low health if it's behind a sub. The tank set which is SpD often has Discharge, so it's likely to paralyze Garde and make it very easy to deal with. It can't switch in thoug since Psyshock does quiite a bit still, hence check not counter.

Against Sylveon it's even trickier. Rest and CM are very common on Sylveon, 44% each pretty much, and I don't see Heatom getting past those very well with any set. Maybe Trick and a Choice item, but only if you know Sylv isn't choice itself. Really Tank Rotom-h doesn't seem like an answer to Sylveon at all, since Sylv can take its attacks pretty well and do a lot back if it isn't locked into the wrong move. Still, you can often ohko even a healthy Sylv with Char X's Flare Blitz(even Jolly is assured on standard ones after SR damage,) and Mamo beats it pretty well too. Charizard can even switch in pre mega, if SR isn't on your side ofc.

I really like SpD Talon, and it can 2hko most any Garde with BB or itemless Acrobatics, and take a Psyshock even after BB recoil. Switching in on Hyper Voice can be nice, activates Maranga Berry if you are using that, and that powers up Acrobatics(I like BB better, but either is good.) It can usually take Garde's Psyshock after a Hyper Voice, but probably not worth the risk of switching in since it might kill, and there are Modest Gardes too. So again a check not counter.

Against Sylveon SpD Talon is really solid. From Specs it only fears Psyshock, Roost heals more than any other commonly used move will do, and also out heals low rolls on Psyshock so you could stall it a bit if need be. CM isn't much of a problem at all unless you let boosts get out of control, but why would you? As soon as you Sylv Talon can pretty much switch in, and Taunt to stop further set up. It's not perfect though. Acro or BB are only 3hkos on Sylv, and bulkier ones will only be 4hkod. So you have to be wary of boosted Psyshocks and stuff.

 

[Jam Joestar]

SpDef Rotom-h is an ok check because it can even take Psyshock from Mega Garde pretty well, and resisting Pixilayed Hyper Voice means it is often ok even at low health if it's behind a sub. The tank set which is SpD often has Discharge, so it's likely to paralyze Garde and make it very easy to deal with. It can't switch in thoug since Psyshock does quiite a bit still, hence check not counter.

Against Sylveon it's even trickier. Rest and CM are very common on Sylveon, 44% each pretty much, and I don't see Heatom getting past those very well with any set. Maybe Trick and a Choice item, but only if you know Sylv isn't choice itself. Really Tank Rotom-h doesn't seem like an answer to Sylveon at all, since Sylv can take its attacks pretty well and do a lot back if it isn't locked into the wrong move. Still, you can often ohko even a healthy Sylv with Char X's Flare Blitz(even Jolly is assured on standard ones after SR damage,) and Mamo beats it pretty well too. Charizard can even switch in pre mega, if SR isn't on your side ofc.

I really like SpD Talon, and it can 2hko most any Garde with BB or itemless Acrobatics, and take a Psyshock even after BB recoil. Switching in on Hyper Voice can be nice, activates Maranga Berry if you are using that, and that powers up Acrobatics(I like BB better, but either is good.) It can usually take Garde's Psyshock after a Hyper Voice, but probably not worth the risk of switching in since it might kill, and there are Modest Gardes too. So again a check not counter.

Against Sylveon SpD Talon is really solid. From Specs it only fears Psyshock, Roost heals more than any other commonly used move will do, and also out heals low rolls on Psyshock so you could stall it a bit if need be. CM isn't much of a problem at all unless you let boosts get out of control, but why would you? As soon as you Sylv Talon can pretty much switch in, and Taunt to stop further set up. It's not perfect though. Acro or BB are only 3hkos on Sylv, and bulkier ones will only be 4hkod. So you have to be wary of boosted Psyshocks and stuff.

Hmm. Alright then. Is Clef still a better option over a different offensive Heatran with rocks as a final member if I have healing moves on both Talon and Serp (assuming that I go Versatile Sweeper on Xard and remove DD for SD + Roost for Flame Charge), or is the wish support for Mamo/Xard/Thund more useful? Or should I get rocks support from something else entirely now?

 

[Omastar68]

Hmm. Alright then. Is Clef still a better option over a different offensive Heatran with rocks as a final member if I have healing moves on both Talon and Serp (assuming that I go Versatile Sweeper on Xard and remove DD for SD + Roost for Flame Charge), or is the wish support for Mamo/Xard/Thund more useful? Or should I get rocks support from something else entirely now?

Well, Wish support is pretty much not used in BSS. Never tried so can't say it's bad for sure, but keep in mind the top brass don't bother with it so it's probably not a good idea. I think of Clef as always setting up with Minimize, not setting rocks. I guess it could work, but I don't see why you'd want that.

Heatran I guess you could run SR, rare but not unheard of. I think Heatran would worsen your Kang match up further, though Clef isn't really an answer either.

If you want SR, maybe use a more common setter like Ferro or Hippo, the latter is Zard's #1 teammate according to the very outdated http://battlespotstats.com(PGL is doing maintenance.) Most of that is probably for X, so Hippo is very much the most common teammate. So maybe build around those two instead. I mean if you really want SR(which isn't a bad thing by any means,) and Zard X as your mega, those two seem like a god core to build around.

Thundurus fits on most any team, and definitely the best ones. So you can keep that. One thing it does is take care of Slowbro, Zard X and Hippo don't do very well with that. Helps with Azumarill too, and some problems for it like Kang are dealt with somewhat well.

From there looks weak to Mamoswine for one. I don't really like the Greninja match up either. Rotom-W does good with those two, so maybe keep that.

Umm, I could go on, but idk if you want to try to rebuild your team or use what you had. Honestly that looked fine too. I guess I'd vote Heatran for that team. No real reason, but its weaknesses seem covered, and Clef can be hard to set up and stuff. I guess why you don't see that many of them. Horrible 4MSS, so it can only have one attack if it wants to set up properly and have recovery.

 

[Jam Joestar]

Well, Wish support is pretty much not used in BSS. Never tried so can't say it's bad for sure, but keep in mind the top brass don't bother with it so it's probably not a good idea. I think of Clef as always setting up with Minimize, not setting rocks. I guess it could work, but I don't see why you'd want that.

Heatran I guess you could run SR, rare but not unheard of. I think Heatran would worsen your Kang match up further, though Clef isn't really an answer either.

If you want SR, maybe use a more common setter like Ferro or Hippo, the latter is Zard's #1 teammate according to the very outdated http://battlespotstats.com(PGL is doing maintenance.) Most of that is probably for X, so Hippo is very much the most common teammate. So maybe build around those two instead. I mean if you really want SR(which isn't a bad thing by any means,) and Zard X as your mega, those two seem like a god core to build around.

Thundurus fits on most any team, and definitely the best ones. So you can keep that. One thing it does is take care of Slowbro, Zard X and Hippo don't do very well with that. Helps with Azumarill too, and some problems for it like Kang are dealt with somewhat well.

From there looks weak to Mamoswine for one. I don't really like the Greninja match up either. Rotom-W does good with those two, so maybe keep that.

Umm, I could go on, but idk if you want to try to rebuild your team or use what you had. Honestly that looked fine too. I guess I'd vote Heatran for that team. No real reason, but its weaknesses seem covered, and Clef can be hard to set up and stuff. I guess why you don't see that many of them. Horrible 4MSS, so it can only have one attack if it wants to set up properly and have recovery.

Hmm, I like the Hippo idea, although Talonflame can check Mamoswine as long as I don't get hit with an EQ during Roost. Gonna keep that bird around over a Rotom. So Xard / Thund / Hippo / Mamo / Serp / Talon. Another thing I thought about: what about Landorus-T? EQ and Superpower for Excadrill and Tyranitar, Ground immunity, a slow U-turn to help SD Flame Charge Xard come in safely, and rocks. It syncs well with Thund too.

 

[freekhoorn]

Hmm, I like the Hippo idea, although Talonflame can check Mamoswine as long as I don't get hit with an EQ during Roost. Gonna keep that bird around over a Rotom. So Xard / Thund / Hippo / Mamo / Serp / Talon. Another thing I thought about: what about Landorus-T? EQ and Superpower for Excadrill and Tyranitar, Ground immunity, a slow U-turn to help SD Flame Charge Xard come in safely, and rocks. It syncs well with Thund too.

I already found two grounds a bit lot, so if you want it then swap it for hippo. Why would it sync with thundurus? They share a ice weakness and dont give eachother a resistance for a type where the other is weak against. You have a possible voltturn combo which is always nice though. You also have a triple rock weakness. Hippo is therefore better then landorus, although rock isnt that common.

If you think about clefable still though (a fairy alongisde your dragon xard is always nice imo) it actually isntneven that bad against kanghaskan as with unware it ignors possible pup boosts it could have. You can also para it with t-wave and instead of wish (which is bad cause it loses momentum) you have healing wish which pairs great with para and gives a lot of momentum instead of wish. You can also opt for cosmic power as you will increase your defense while opponents attackboosts are ignored. Then you should have a healing move though (moonlight or even chestorest lol)
As for an item you could go for rocky helmet (if you go with cosmic power) leftovers, sitrus berry or even safety goggles which makes it immune to spore (great antibreloom lead) and the sand that hippo brings.

 

[ethan06]

Double genies is one of the most well-documented cores of the sixth generation in pretty much every format where they appear. It's pretty simple: Landorus is bulky enough to cope with the physical Rock-types that threaten Thundurus, while Thundurus threatens the bulky Water-types that make it hard for Landorus. Intimidate benefits Thundurus, Thunder Wave benefits Landorus, between the two they have BoltBeam and EdgeQuake coverage to offensively check a large swathe of the meta. It's true that Mamoswine slaps them around a bit, but everything else gets paralysed and Mamoswine bby itself is not hard to prepare for. Hippowdon is more of a supportive option than Landorus, which is more offensively oriented. Their roles overlap a lot, but I feel like Landorus gels better with the rest of the team due to its pivoting utility with U-Turn and Intimidate, and its ability to actively check the things that threaten Zard-X, as opposed to Hippo's more passive approach.

 

[Jam Joestar]

I already found two grounds a bit lot, so if you want it then swap it for hippo. Why would it sync with thundurus? They share a ice weakness and dont give eachother a resistance for a type where the other is weak against. You have a possible voltturn combo which is always nice though. You also have a triple rock weakness. Hippo is therefore better then landorus, although rock isnt that common.

If you think about clefable still though (a fairy alongisde your dragon xard is always nice imo) it actually isntneven that bad against kanghaskan as with unware it ignors possible pup boosts it could have. You can also para it with t-wave and instead of wish (which is bad cause it loses momentum) you have healing wish which pairs great with para and gives a lot of momentum instead of wish. You can also opt for cosmic power as you will increase your defense while opponents attackboosts are ignored. Then you should have a healing move though (moonlight or even chestorest lol)
As for an item you could go for rocky helmet (if you go with cosmic power) leftovers, sitrus berry or even safety goggles which makes it immune to spore (great antibreloom lead) and the sand that hippo brings.

They do share an ice weakness, but they have plenty coverage between them and I do have things to deal with Mamo. Rock is a bit worrying, especially SR since my only real options of resistance there are Serp and Mamo, and I have no hazard removal, but I'm getting the vibe that rocks aren't as common in BSS as in Showdown.

Besides that, going for bulky Lando instead of Scarf Lando will let it take more hits, but still have lots of utility for damage dealing because it can lay rocks and force a few switches.

Double genies is one of the most well-documented cores of the sixth generation in pretty much every format where they appear. It's pretty simple: Landorus is bulky enough to cope with the physical Rock-types that threaten Thundurus, while Thundurus threatens the bulky Water-types that make it hard for Landorus. Intimidate benefits Thundurus, Thunder Wave benefits Landorus, between the two they have BoltBeam and EdgeQuake coverage to offensively check a large swathe of the meta. It's true that Mamoswine slaps them around a bit, but everything else gets paralysed and Mamoswine bby itself is not hard to prepare for. Hippowdon is more of a supportive option than Landorus, which is more offensively oriented. Their roles overlap a lot, but I feel like Landorus gels better with the rest of the team due to its pivoting utility with U-Turn and Intimidate, and its ability to actively check the things that threaten Zard-X, as opposed to Hippo's more passive approach.

Yeah, I'd like to focus more on an aggressive team. That being said, is EdgeQuake better than a defensive pivot with rocks in this case? I guess Talonflame can wall me without Stone Edge, so I could swap Superpower for that, but then Kang.

Edit: Oh wait, my bad, I've got Thund. So I was thinking:

Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rocks
-U-Turn
-Superpower

 

[Fischgrat]

They do share an ice weakness, but they have plenty coverage between them and I do have things to deal with Mamo. Rock is a bit worrying, especially SR since my only real options of resistance there are Serp and Mamo, and I have no hazard removal, but I'm getting the vibe that rocks aren't as common in BSS as in Showdown.

Besides that, going for bulky Lando instead of Scarf Lando will let it take more hits, but still have lots of utility for damage dealing because it can lay rocks and force a few switches.



Yeah, I'd like to focus more on an aggressive team. That being said, is EdgeQuake better than a defensive pivot with rocks in this case? I guess Talonflame can wall me without Stone Edge, so I could swap Superpower for that, but then Kang.

Edit: Oh wait, my bad, I've got Thund. So I was thinking:

Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rocks
-U-Turn
-Superpower

To be honest I'd drop Stealth Rocks, it's nowhere as good as in a 6v6 Meta and from my experience Ii only clicked it for obvious opposing Talonflames and Charizards if they weren't leading, as well as rarely on a predicted Protect/Kings Shield from (M-)Blaziken, M-Gengar and Aegislash to not do nothing when switching would've worsened my position, but except for that attacking is usually the better option (I played a Mence Team with Sash Mamo for quite some time now).
For your Team I would like a more offensive Landorus, since you also said that you like to play more agressively. I missed the coverage when I played Rocks way more often than SR were useful for me, in 3v3 it can easily result in a turn you'd often rather have spent attacking...Though you could still opt for it being somewhat bulky. Superpower plus Stone Edge(/Rock Tomb/Rock Slide) gives you more reliable fighting coverage than Focus miss on Thundy and obviously hits Talon/ZardY and stuff like opposing Thundurus or Zapdos, and a U-Turn User fits perfectly on the Team imo. Outside of Thundurus stuff like Greninja can cause big Problems, so easing it up on that role is a good idea, as well as having the always-handy emergency BraveBird in the back for various threats lol.

Since I haven't played almost any Battlespot in the past month since i was on vacation, and am basically not much more than a beginner myself I won't recommend much more here, just my 2cts on the Stealth Rocks thing; don't focus too much on them, they are rather mediocre in comparison to a 6v6 Format (and similarily Wish support on a more offensive team like this, since you mentioned that earlier too) :)

 

[imBLIND]

Any suggestions on how to deal with M-Sableye other than strong Fire-type physical attackers? I have a decent balanced team right now, but my primary counter to slow CM stackers such as Sableye, Suicune, Sylveon, etc is a Specs Trick Rotom and a Toxic stall Heatran, both of which don't work against M-Sableye for obvious reasons.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Any suggestions on how to deal with M-Sableye other than strong Fire-type physical attackers? I have a decent balanced team right now, but my primary counter to slow CM stackers such as Sableye, Suicune, Sylveon, etc is a Specs Trick Rotom and a Toxic stall Heatran, both of which don't work against M-Sableye for obvious reasons.

CB Arcanine does a number on most of them (Wild Charge for Suicune/Slowbro) and can still offer reasonable bulk and Intimidate.
Sylveon and Gardevoir (even non-Mega) generally spam CM or Psyshock while ruining Sableye's life.
Char-Y works too just out of sheer power and good Special bulk but eats a mega / needs heavy support.
NP Thundurus sets up faster than they can and blasts away.
Clear Smog.
Psych Up is funny too.