Bumping this thread, I got back into using a bp team and I hope some of you have some fresh ideas.
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Baton Pass discussion thread.
- Thread starter Black Leather Jacket
- Start date
Talk about resurrections. Yeah, it kinda sucks that BP passes Perish Song. If BP teams get too out of hand P Song Gar will become loved.
Medicham is my absolute favorite recipient, as I've said earlier, because the only purpose of CMs then would be for special defense while setting up, allowing more flexability. Brick Break, Shadow Ball, and Return OHKO everything in the game with 100% accuracy (well, max HP, max defense Impish Groudon has a chance to survive, unless you run Double-Edge, but that's uber, anyway, and is a bad spread I'd say). There's no need for your recipient to be able to BP out if it's faster and OHKOs all.
The reason someone would use Mawille over Scizor would be Taunt, mostly, but I suppose Intimidate to help with non-Metagross CBers.
One of these days, though, I'm going to make an Aipom BP team. Double-Edge, Shadow Ball, Dig Aipom sounds good. ;)
The reason someone would use Mawille over Scizor would be Taunt, mostly, but I suppose Intimidate to help with non-Metagross CBers.
One of these days, though, I'm going to make an Aipom BP team. Double-Edge, Shadow Ball, Dig Aipom sounds good. ;)
Ok but.....Without a sub up and a cber hitting you very hard there's noting you can pass to except for Scizor/Mawile that can actually live. My only option would be Vaporeon and like I said in the 1st post you will be very worn do if you are fortunate enough not to get bad luck with criticals, Umbreon usually can't do much on bp teams....Sure he does his job of trapping and blocking moves with taunt well but that's about it. He's the most useless pokemon on the entire bp team atleast with Smeargle you can sleep/trap/ingrain, Oh and if your opponent has a sub up good luck Umbreon you're usually going to do anything.Tater said:
What are some things that really give your bp teams problems?
I tried using a BP team with zapdos\umbreon\smeargle\scizor\something i forgot, but often they just sent in a CBed poke and tore my team up :/ even though scizor is steel typed it cant take alot of pounding
I encounter many BP teams.. and I HATE them, because they usually try everything to get rid of your phazer. So, when I see a Ninjask, i attack for 1 turn to think i am not going to switch right away, then switch to Skarmoey (omg i love this bird). I set up sub, as Ninjask "protects" and "subs" thinking i am going to attack, but instead I am setting up my spikes and then WW the fucker away. So easy. I have never lost to a BP team ever since I stuck skamory into my OU team.
Smeargle dies with like 3 HP Fly hits from a Skarm, easy to defeat...i hate smeargle. I always have sub on Skarm, so when BP or WWined to a Umby, the taunt and Meanlook doesn't work anyway. And for the Vaporeon, well I always switch anyway to block a possible water/ice attack, and when vappy BPasses to the attacking/tank, ill just switch back to skarm :-P annoying eh? I would love to see a BP team beat a team with Skarm.
I've encountered tons of Skarmories and they were zero problem usually. Granted, few of them carried Substitute AND Whirlwind, but usually I let them Whirlwind until they get in my Smeargle. Ingrain, problem solved. Not to mention Vaporeon scares it away so I can get in Taunt Umbreon.
Not that that's really hard to do. BP teams are some of the most thoughtless and stupid teams ever made, anyone could win with them.
Not that that's really hard to do. BP teams are some of the most thoughtless and stupid teams ever made, anyone could win with them.
Does anyone else clause BP teams, or am I alone? I just find them very boring to fight against, is all.
I used to run jaskpass to Fire Blast Octillery. It was pretty funny really. I personally have never had much trouble with BP teams so long as you make the right switches at the right times(Haze and Phaze) and fight like there's no tommorrow to keep that sub down.
tl;dr
OK, as some of you may know, I've been using BP teams a bit recently. This is what I've found.
Ninjask (M) @ Leftovers ** Jask E-Wak
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Silver Wind
- Substitute
This is my best try at being able to break just about everything's substitute without boosts. It has Jolly because enemy BP teams can really screw you over (with the max speed HP Flying IVs).
HP Flying OHKOs Heracross, which is nice, as Ninjask is about the only protection against Focus Punching Heracross (Mime has to take damage from special attackers, so it's best to keep that guy at full health). It also OHKOs enemy Ninjasks, and does a fair amount to Gengar.
Silver Wind helps against Tyranitar and Alakazam. Zapdos gives this guy trouble, but you can't really make any changes to the set while still getting the same kind of coverage this has, at least nothing I can think of.
If I were to use Jolteon over this, I would suddenly have a humungous Heracross weakness, as well as nothing to easily take CB Earthquakes. Zapdos could be put over this, with Drill Peck maybe, but it's a bit riskier.
Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers ** The Dork Side
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 198 Def / 60 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Acid Armor
- Baton Pass
- Roar
- Wish
Admittedly the least important member of the team, it's still important for mixed attackers without electric attacks, and Houndoom in particular. Roar is to stop the enemy from trying to stat up with you, as well as phazing phazers before they get the chance to do so to you. Wish really helps Mime survive special abuse, and keeps Scizor at full health for CB hits. The only thing standing between DDmence with Flamethrower and a 6-0 sweep of my team. It helps as a preliminary defense against, say, Salamence CB HP Flying (pass to it, Acid Armor, and then Wish/BP appropriately to Scizor).
The most vulnerable member, as it lacks a substitute, and sometimes takes risks with enemies like Zapdos, trying to get in that Wish so Mr. Mime can Calm Mind a couple more times.
It could be dropped for Umbreon, losing Roar and Acid Armor, as well as a cool Steel resist, but gaining Mean Look, freeing up a slot on Smeargle, and Charm or Substitute, as well as lowering the vulnerability to Zapdos.
Scizor (F) @ Leftovers ** C3P Oh no
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 210 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Scizor is my only offensive stat-upper, unless you include Mr. Mime's CMs increasing his own Psychic's power. Substitute is obligatory, to check for random fire moves on stuff like Snorlax. It eats most CB hits like nothing, and takes Explosions like a champ. After a couple CMs and an Iron Defense or two, nothing breaks its sub, except fire, and eventually only STAB fire attacks, thanks to his awesome typing.
Mawile gets intimidate, making it cooler for taking normal hits, but it has worse stats, especially special defense, and is weak to ground, which more than overshadows the flying and rock resistance. Even with the only 2x weak to fire on Mawile, I far prefer Scizor.
Bold with 0 attack IVs to lower confusion damage. :)
Mr. Mime (M) @ Leftovers ** Mimesweeper
Trait: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 178 Def / 80 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Calm Mind
- Encore
- Psychic
Shuts down Roaring Skarmory, Suicune, etc. It's also my only line of defense against Zapdos and Raikou. It can CM up in their face, surviving the hits, as long as they don't CH (and even then, it can take one of those). If they think they're being funny and try to sub/CM up with you, Encore and show them who's boss. Encore is far superior to Trick. It does not require a set-up turn, and unlike Trick, which many expect, and thus simply use Thunderbolt or bring in a CBer, Encore tricks them into a false sense of security before it's revealed, so they think it's safe to CM up and try to sweep. It also stops more than one Pokemon. Encore Mime can't be outmaneuvered by enemy CBers to be rendered useless, either. Psychic because it beats most phazers, and does enough to the electrics to break their sub/kill them.
Another important job for Mr. Mime is Perish Song. A CB Gengar with Perish Song and Shadow Ball has the potentially to really screw over a BP team because of this fact, as you only have to get it right once, they have to get it right every time. The only real threat a BP team poses to that, as long as you keep it out of Mime's way, is Smeargle/Umbreon trapping something before you can stop them. If they've gotten even one defensive boost, the Mime can survive, and then retreat to Scizor/Smeargle, and you've just lost yourself the game. Smeargle can also trap something that isn't Gengar, meaning Gengar can't come back in.
Smeargle (M) @ Salac Berry ** The Farce
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Spd / 140 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Ingrain
- Spider Web
- Substitute
Yes, that's right, on my BP team, I have Smeargle without Spore, Belly Drum, or OHKOs.
I'm sure right now some of you are saying to yourselves, "What is this guy smoking? Smeargle without Spore? And why the Salac? Isn't Ninjask taking care of speed?" The Salac is not, as you might think, a back-up speed in case Ninjask goes down. No, it's because otherwise, Whirlwind Skarmory+two fast attackers that OHKO Smeargle beat you every time. They might only need a single fast attacker if they can outmaneuver your Spore. You see, when they have Whirlwind Skarmory, you need to get Ingrain down as fast as Pokemonly possible, or you'll be going nowhere. When you Ingrain, you can't switch, and likely will not have any speed boosts if they bring out Skarmory the second you show Ninjask. So if they switch to said fast attacker, say, Aerodactyl once you bring out Smeargle, you either Spore or Ingrain that turn, or BP and accomplish nothing. If you Spore, and they also have Salamence on their team, they just switch to that as you Ingrain, and then kill you, or they Intimidate you as you BP out/switch, accomplishing nothing.
How can you stop this? Substitute. In the scenario now, they still think you have Spore, until you show all your moves, by which time it's too late to matter. This works to your advantage. However, even if they know you don't have Spore, there's not much they can do about it. If instead you Sub once you bring in Smeargle, they most likely won't risk their Skarmory, the main defense against your team, being put to sleep. Instead, they go to Fast Attacker. You are now subbed. They attack, you sub. They attack, you sub, etc. Salac activates. Fast Attacker is now slower than Smeargle, and Smeargle is behind a sub. Ingrain as they break your sub, and then BP the Ingrain and +1 speed out appropriately.
If Skarmory figures out what's going on, and just tries to WW you as you sub, you can Ingrain if you suspect this. HP Flying (because Drill Peck is kind of irrelevant, if you have a Mime, but for those of you who don't use it, this is still correct) takes off about 60% or so, leaving you with enough health to have subbed once already, leaving you save no matter what it does. I think Skarmory needs a few attack EVs to OHKO even with HP Fighting, so you should be safe there, too.
The EVs are so that it always survives Zapdos Thunderbolt in a Sandstorm, so it can Ingrain, activate the Salac, and BP to the Mime. The HP is divisible by 4 so I have 1/4 health left when Salac activates.
The HP has to be at 1/4 for Salac because of Tyranitar. Endure is an option over Substitute, but I much prefer Sub, because of Tyranitar (don't want to die to Sandstream).
It has Spider Web to stop Hazers from ruining the party, as BLJ already went over.
Spore is an option on there, over Substitute.
Medicham (M) @ Lum Berry ** Darth Tater
Trait: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Brick Break
- Return
- Shadow Ball
People would always say it's nice to have BP on your recipient, "so you can continue the chain". I used to reject this, because I found it absurd that you would need to continue a chain after you finish it (and I still do). No, the reason to have BP on, say, Medicham, is that Pokemon like Tyranitar can really screw you over. It's nice to be able to BP in Medicham to kill/scare it off, and then finish statting up.
Even after an Intimidate (so +5 attack), this OHKOs max defense, max HP Impish Skarmory 88% of the time with Brick Break, and nearly 60% of the time on Suicune. Neither of them can really do anything, anyway, and max defense, max HP, Bold Suicune is rare. Weezing is OHKOed by Return 93% of the time after Intimidate. Nothing survives a +6 attack Medicham, except the rare max HP+Defense+Nature Groudon, which is uber, and thus irrelevant for most battles. You could run Double-Edge in ubers to deal with that, as it has nearly a 100% KO rate.
/edit: Fixed EVs
OK, as some of you may know, I've been using BP teams a bit recently. This is what I've found.
Ninjask (M) @ Leftovers ** Jask E-Wak
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Silver Wind
- Substitute
This is my best try at being able to break just about everything's substitute without boosts. It has Jolly because enemy BP teams can really screw you over (with the max speed HP Flying IVs).
HP Flying OHKOs Heracross, which is nice, as Ninjask is about the only protection against Focus Punching Heracross (Mime has to take damage from special attackers, so it's best to keep that guy at full health). It also OHKOs enemy Ninjasks, and does a fair amount to Gengar.
Silver Wind helps against Tyranitar and Alakazam. Zapdos gives this guy trouble, but you can't really make any changes to the set while still getting the same kind of coverage this has, at least nothing I can think of.
If I were to use Jolteon over this, I would suddenly have a humungous Heracross weakness, as well as nothing to easily take CB Earthquakes. Zapdos could be put over this, with Drill Peck maybe, but it's a bit riskier.
Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers ** The Dork Side
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 198 Def / 60 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Acid Armor
- Baton Pass
- Roar
- Wish
Admittedly the least important member of the team, it's still important for mixed attackers without electric attacks, and Houndoom in particular. Roar is to stop the enemy from trying to stat up with you, as well as phazing phazers before they get the chance to do so to you. Wish really helps Mime survive special abuse, and keeps Scizor at full health for CB hits. The only thing standing between DDmence with Flamethrower and a 6-0 sweep of my team. It helps as a preliminary defense against, say, Salamence CB HP Flying (pass to it, Acid Armor, and then Wish/BP appropriately to Scizor).
The most vulnerable member, as it lacks a substitute, and sometimes takes risks with enemies like Zapdos, trying to get in that Wish so Mr. Mime can Calm Mind a couple more times.
It could be dropped for Umbreon, losing Roar and Acid Armor, as well as a cool Steel resist, but gaining Mean Look, freeing up a slot on Smeargle, and Charm or Substitute, as well as lowering the vulnerability to Zapdos.
Scizor (F) @ Leftovers ** C3P Oh no
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 210 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Scizor is my only offensive stat-upper, unless you include Mr. Mime's CMs increasing his own Psychic's power. Substitute is obligatory, to check for random fire moves on stuff like Snorlax. It eats most CB hits like nothing, and takes Explosions like a champ. After a couple CMs and an Iron Defense or two, nothing breaks its sub, except fire, and eventually only STAB fire attacks, thanks to his awesome typing.
Mawile gets intimidate, making it cooler for taking normal hits, but it has worse stats, especially special defense, and is weak to ground, which more than overshadows the flying and rock resistance. Even with the only 2x weak to fire on Mawile, I far prefer Scizor.
Bold with 0 attack IVs to lower confusion damage. :)
Mr. Mime (M) @ Leftovers ** Mimesweeper
Trait: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 178 Def / 80 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Calm Mind
- Encore
- Psychic
Shuts down Roaring Skarmory, Suicune, etc. It's also my only line of defense against Zapdos and Raikou. It can CM up in their face, surviving the hits, as long as they don't CH (and even then, it can take one of those). If they think they're being funny and try to sub/CM up with you, Encore and show them who's boss. Encore is far superior to Trick. It does not require a set-up turn, and unlike Trick, which many expect, and thus simply use Thunderbolt or bring in a CBer, Encore tricks them into a false sense of security before it's revealed, so they think it's safe to CM up and try to sweep. It also stops more than one Pokemon. Encore Mime can't be outmaneuvered by enemy CBers to be rendered useless, either. Psychic because it beats most phazers, and does enough to the electrics to break their sub/kill them.
Another important job for Mr. Mime is Perish Song. A CB Gengar with Perish Song and Shadow Ball has the potentially to really screw over a BP team because of this fact, as you only have to get it right once, they have to get it right every time. The only real threat a BP team poses to that, as long as you keep it out of Mime's way, is Smeargle/Umbreon trapping something before you can stop them. If they've gotten even one defensive boost, the Mime can survive, and then retreat to Scizor/Smeargle, and you've just lost yourself the game. Smeargle can also trap something that isn't Gengar, meaning Gengar can't come back in.
Smeargle (M) @ Salac Berry ** The Farce
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Spd / 140 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Ingrain
- Spider Web
- Substitute
Yes, that's right, on my BP team, I have Smeargle without Spore, Belly Drum, or OHKOs.
I'm sure right now some of you are saying to yourselves, "What is this guy smoking? Smeargle without Spore? And why the Salac? Isn't Ninjask taking care of speed?" The Salac is not, as you might think, a back-up speed in case Ninjask goes down. No, it's because otherwise, Whirlwind Skarmory+two fast attackers that OHKO Smeargle beat you every time. They might only need a single fast attacker if they can outmaneuver your Spore. You see, when they have Whirlwind Skarmory, you need to get Ingrain down as fast as Pokemonly possible, or you'll be going nowhere. When you Ingrain, you can't switch, and likely will not have any speed boosts if they bring out Skarmory the second you show Ninjask. So if they switch to said fast attacker, say, Aerodactyl once you bring out Smeargle, you either Spore or Ingrain that turn, or BP and accomplish nothing. If you Spore, and they also have Salamence on their team, they just switch to that as you Ingrain, and then kill you, or they Intimidate you as you BP out/switch, accomplishing nothing.
How can you stop this? Substitute. In the scenario now, they still think you have Spore, until you show all your moves, by which time it's too late to matter. This works to your advantage. However, even if they know you don't have Spore, there's not much they can do about it. If instead you Sub once you bring in Smeargle, they most likely won't risk their Skarmory, the main defense against your team, being put to sleep. Instead, they go to Fast Attacker. You are now subbed. They attack, you sub. They attack, you sub, etc. Salac activates. Fast Attacker is now slower than Smeargle, and Smeargle is behind a sub. Ingrain as they break your sub, and then BP the Ingrain and +1 speed out appropriately.
If Skarmory figures out what's going on, and just tries to WW you as you sub, you can Ingrain if you suspect this. HP Flying (because Drill Peck is kind of irrelevant, if you have a Mime, but for those of you who don't use it, this is still correct) takes off about 60% or so, leaving you with enough health to have subbed once already, leaving you save no matter what it does. I think Skarmory needs a few attack EVs to OHKO even with HP Fighting, so you should be safe there, too.
The EVs are so that it always survives Zapdos Thunderbolt in a Sandstorm, so it can Ingrain, activate the Salac, and BP to the Mime. The HP is divisible by 4 so I have 1/4 health left when Salac activates.
The HP has to be at 1/4 for Salac because of Tyranitar. Endure is an option over Substitute, but I much prefer Sub, because of Tyranitar (don't want to die to Sandstream).
It has Spider Web to stop Hazers from ruining the party, as BLJ already went over.
Spore is an option on there, over Substitute.
Medicham (M) @ Lum Berry ** Darth Tater
Trait: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Brick Break
- Return
- Shadow Ball
People would always say it's nice to have BP on your recipient, "so you can continue the chain". I used to reject this, because I found it absurd that you would need to continue a chain after you finish it (and I still do). No, the reason to have BP on, say, Medicham, is that Pokemon like Tyranitar can really screw you over. It's nice to be able to BP in Medicham to kill/scare it off, and then finish statting up.
Even after an Intimidate (so +5 attack), this OHKOs max defense, max HP Impish Skarmory 88% of the time with Brick Break, and nearly 60% of the time on Suicune. Neither of them can really do anything, anyway, and max defense, max HP, Bold Suicune is rare. Weezing is OHKOed by Return 93% of the time after Intimidate. Nothing survives a +6 attack Medicham, except the rare max HP+Defense+Nature Groudon, which is uber, and thus irrelevant for most battles. You could run Double-Edge in ubers to deal with that, as it has nearly a 100% KO rate.
/edit: Fixed EVs
I guess no one reads the rules then lol.Mekkah said:
BLJ your Bpass team has some problems with ViL's Ttar(sub, focus punch, hp bug, rock slide) and almost hits all the defenders except vaporeon.
Bug sents celebi + mr mime to hell and no one of them can psychic it. Sub/Focus punch the umbreon,Rock slide ninjask+ Zapdos, ect.
Also a CB ttar which is seen more nowdays can cause some trouble if he uses HPbug(has some chances at breaking ninjask's sub) or RSlide.
And Ttar teams usually pack a skarmory with them.
SS teams are usually your counters for BP teams and you should find some way to counter them.
Bug sents celebi + mr mime to hell and no one of them can psychic it. Sub/Focus punch the umbreon,Rock slide ninjask+ Zapdos, ect.
Also a CB ttar which is seen more nowdays can cause some trouble if he uses HPbug(has some chances at breaking ninjask's sub) or RSlide.
And Ttar teams usually pack a skarmory with them.
SS teams are usually your counters for BP teams and you should find some way to counter them.
Well any Tyranitar will mess me up, The worst being "BOAH" once it gets a sub up I'm fucked unless I can cm up enough with Celebi so crunch doesn't do much.
Veteran's Tar is easier to deal with if I keep boosting my defense.
Veteran's Tar is easier to deal with if I keep boosting my defense.
And there is the pontential 20% special defense drop too and without Recover, yes Boah is a bitch to face on BPass.
With all those novelty movesets nowdays and after seeing husk using an HP electric donphan I wondered how an Hp electric Ninjask would do in BP teams. It 3Hkos skarmory so it will think twice if it has a sub on before WW or if it tries to spike. AA should KO heracross without attacking evs anyway. :/
With all those novelty movesets nowdays and after seeing husk using an HP electric donphan I wondered how an Hp electric Ninjask would do in BP teams. It 3Hkos skarmory so it will think twice if it has a sub on before WW or if it tries to spike. AA should KO heracross without attacking evs anyway. :/
