Assault Vest (and its Impact in the Metagame)

[Skyrander]

Well it great to see that most of you like the assult vest item, While I do agree it is not the most useful item, it still brings another type of wall to the team.

Like following pokes, Hiriyama, dragalge, granbull etc can all bring a new type of bulk, even though they miss on recovery, their main purpose is to soak damage and force switch because the retaliation is often sever.

I myself had a lot of trubbel against mismagius on my channel, the soultion was surprisingly a AV camerupt with solid rock, while I do agree mit is not the most reliable item for it, it stll stopped a lot of common threat, sadly not slurpuff though.

AV pokes hold the element of suprise and are great blockers when your true SP.d wall need to be spared.

 

[abtwitch]

I would like to argue the use of AV Vileplume. I have used it multiple times, and it never fails to let me down. Using Durant's post about a good AV user, I will support my argument.

- First and probably most importantly, if you are gonna Assault Vest use it on something bulky.

Vileplume is bulky none the less, this step is very obvious in finding a AV user.

- Second is that the Pokemon should also be able to hit back hard.

I think 110 SpAtt is pretty good for an AV user.

- Third is also important. Make sure the Pokemon doesn't lose any important other moves.

This is Vileplume's main downfall, he loses some moves like powder moves, Leech Seed, but his biggest loss is Aromatherapy. But since Vileplume no longer is "defensive" and is now a bulky offensive build, you still have space on your team for a cleric with heal bell, and Vileplume synergizes well with some common Heal Bellers, like Lanturn.

- Lastly keep in mind that Assault Vest users should also have at least one way to recover their health.

This one is a no brainer for any AV user, Vileplume gets Giga Drain, not much else to explain.

Another reason I like this set so much is because it counters so many of the physical threats, and now you are able to counter some special ones as well!

Here is the set I use:
Vileplume @ Assault Vest
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dazzling Gleam

It's a typical spread, but it works for me :)

 

[Ares]

So when i suggested Mespirit with AV on the thread as a replacement for Sigi way back when it was met with negativity (probably cause of BT). But let me re-explain why AV is good on Mespirit and not on Xatu. Xatu has reliable recovery in roost to regain health from LO and rocks, while Mespirit gets none. However people say oh but Healing Wish is good. Personally I dont like to use it that often (not denying that it isnt a good option on Mespirit). Now if you go with coverage this means you can hit lots of things across the board. I dont necessarily have the best coverage options on my set but the two that are a must is Psychic and U-turn. The reason that AV is a good item on mespirit is that it already has decent bulk and with the AV it can switch in/take a hit from special attackers. The biggest thing that hampers it is its speed and so being able to take a hit from faster mons (was using my NU team with this on it in OU and it took 48% from a latios draco meteor) and attack back. I just wanted some extra bulk in health so the EVs are random probably could be better distributed with calcs run (but im lazy LOL). AV is good because it enables you to switch in on special mons and uturn out for momentum, and it allows you to only take damage from rocks on switch in, as opposed to LO which adds up super fast especially if you uturn out a lot for momentum. I dont think there is anything that LO allows Mespirit to get the OHKO on, but if there is feel free to reply with a calc.
Mesprit @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- U-turn

 

[Cacturne of Events]

So when i suggested Mespirit with AV on the thread as a replacement for Sigi way back when it was met with negativity (probably cause of BT). But let me re-explain why AV is good on Mespirit and not on Xatu. Xatu has reliable recovery in roost to regain health from LO and rocks, while Mespirit gets none. However people say oh but Healing Wish is good. Personally I dont like to use it that often (not denying that it isnt a good option on Mespirit). Now if you go with coverage this means you can hit lots of things across the board. I dont necessarily have the best coverage options on my set but the two that are a must is Psychic and U-turn. The reason that AV is a good item on mespirit is that it already has decent bulk and with the AV it can switch in/take a hit from special attackers. The biggest thing that hampers it is its speed and so being able to take a hit from faster mons (was using my NU team with this on it in OU and it took 48% from a latios draco meteor) and attack back. I just wanted some extra bulk in health so the EVs are random probably could be better distributed with calcs run (but im lazy LOL). AV is good because it enables you to switch in on special mons and uturn out for momentum, and it allows you to only take damage from rocks on switch in, as opposed to LO which adds up super fast especially if you uturn out a lot for momentum. I dont think there is anything that LO allows Mespirit to get the OHKO on, but if there is feel free to reply with a calc.
Mesprit @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- U-turn

Ran some calcs:
252+ SpA Mesprit Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shiftry: 248-294 (77.2 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Mesprit Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shiftry: 322-382 (100.3 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Mesprit Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 192-228 (61.5 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Mesprit Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 250-296 (80.1 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Mesprit Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 234-276 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Mesprit Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 304-359 (91 - 107.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (ofc defensive drag still eats it)

252+ SpA Mesprit Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 306-360 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Mesprit Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 398-468 (103.6 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[abtwitch]

In my opinion you all have the idea of AV wrong. A lot of you guys (not everyone) say that it is supposed to increase survivability. In some cases this is true, but I think it's just to get more SpDef. This is why I ran AV Vileplume. This gets destroyed by common special attackers (but still will die to a specs type eruption, but if it's scarfed it has a chance to live ;)) and now it can fight back with better spdef. It doesn't even need the def investments to take the hits of common threats and hit back like a truck.

 

[Cacturne of Events]

In my opinion you all have the idea of AV wrong. A lot of you guys (not everyone) say that it is supposed to increase survivability. In some cases this is true, but I think it's just to get more SpDef. This is why I ran AV Vileplume. This gets destroyed by common special attackers (but still will die to a specs type eruption, but if it's scarfed it has a chance to live ;)) and now it can fight back with better spdef. It doesn't even need the def investments to take the hits of common threats and hit back like a truck.

Idk if I'm misunderstanding you, but wouldn't having extra SDef increase survivability?
I don't personally like the idea of AV Plume, really because of the loss of its supportive side. I'm more of an offensive player, so the main reason I'd pick Plume over another Grass is for its support moves. Without those, I'd much rather use a faster Pokemon that doesn't have to take a hit to deal damage against most things as my Grass user of choice, such as Shiftry or Sceptile (but I wouldn't put an AV on either of them).

 

[Brawlfest]

In my opinion you all have the idea of AV wrong. A lot of you guys (not everyone) say that it is supposed to increase survivability. In some cases this is true, but I think it's just to get more SpDef. This is why I ran AV Vileplume. This gets destroyed by common special attackers (but still will die to a specs type eruption, but if it's scarfed it has a chance to live ;)) and now it can fight back with better spdef. It doesn't even need the def investments to take the hits of common threats and hit back like a truck.

No. Loss of recovery is possibly the worst thing that can happen to a vileplume.

 

[abtwitch]

No. Loss of recovery is possibly the worst thing that can happen to a vileplume.

Giga Drain? It's not as reliable, but this thing walls so much of the meta game and hits back so hard, it would be ignorant to call it "not viable"

 

[abtwitch]

Idk if I'm misunderstanding you, but wouldn't having extra SDef increase survivability?
I don't personally like the idea of AV Plume, really because of the loss of its supportive side. I'm more of an offensive player, so the main reason I'd pick Plume over another Grass is for its support moves. Without those, I'd much rather use a faster Pokemon that doesn't have to take a hit to deal damage against most things as my Grass user of choice, such as Shiftry or Sceptile (but I wouldn't put an AV on either of them).

I get your point, but I have said earlier, Vileplume's main niche is aromatherapy, leech seed, etc. You could easily run a Audino or Lanturn for heal bell, and just drop the leech seed niche. It surprises people, but even when they aren't surprised, it works. From me and my friend's testing, this thing is amazing at walling the meta (ex. Bulk Up Gurdurr, most Granbulls, most special attackers). I just don't understand why it's such a bad idea. Meanwhile, you guys are saying that Dragalge is one of the few good AV users, but it lacks most of the requirements. Lack of HP (Great Defenses though), Lack of Recovery, loss of good moves, and not very good SpAtt (at only 97, 3 less points then Regirock which apparently hits like "wet paper"). I am done arguing about this set and I stand by my claim. Before you call me some noob or something, a team with AV Vileplume got my friend up to top 500, and Vileplume did much of the work, I was there to see it.

 

[Magis4Life]

I get your point, but I have said earlier, Vileplume's main niche is aromatherapy, leech seed, etc. You could easily run a Audino or Lanturn for heal bell, and just drop the leech seed niche. It surprises people, but even when they aren't surprised, it works. From me and my friend's testing, this thing is amazing at walling the meta (ex. Bulk Up Gurdurr, most Granbulls, most special attackers). I just don't understand why it's such a bad idea. Meanwhile, you guys are saying that Dragalge is one of the few good AV users, but it lacks most of the requirements. Lack of HP (Great Defenses though), Lack of Recovery, loss of good moves, and not very good SpAtt (at only 97, 3 less points then Regirock which apparently hits like "wet paper"). I am done arguing about this set and I stand by my claim. Before you call me some noob or something, a team with AV Vileplume got my friend up to top 500, and Vileplume did much of the work, I was there to see it.

Vileplume is primarily a premier physical wall in the metagame, as its typing and defensive capability allows it to check threats like gatr, gurdurr, sawk, hariyama, etc. as you already know. However, vileplume needs reliable recovery to do just that, as it is easily worn down otherwise. Vileplume's niche is not necessarily as a cleric; rather it is a physical wall that is hard to take down due to the typing and reliable recovery in moonlight or synthesis. Vileplume's typing isn't even all that well suited to take special hits all that much anyway, as it is weak to common special attacks, in particular ice and fire. Even with AV, it still cannot take on the likes of pyroar, typhlosion, cryogonal, and is in addition worn down by much easier since it only relies on gig drain to gain any form of recovery. In fact, I have seen Vileplume take on a few special attackers like opposing Vileplume and even come out on top due to moonlight rather than AV. I can guarantee you that Vileplume's would beat AV Vileplume one on one for example because AV vileplume lacks good recovery. Now tbf i don't really like AV Dragalge but it actually can actually check some of the premier special attackers of the tier and hits pretty hard with Draco meteor.

 

[Gus Grizzly]

Lets not forget AV Muk, which arguably had most hype in the NU Alpha discussion. It's above average special defensive bulk boosted by Assault Vest allows it to take special attacks decently; however, its defense is a bit disappointing. Also, it has a nice base 105 Attack, allowing it to do some damage with a stab Gunk Shot and go out with a good sized bang with Explosion.

Muk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch / Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot / Poison Jab
- Shadow Sneak
- Ice Punch
- Explosion

I was using an AV Muk variant ever since xy came out (dare I say - before it was cool) and it can take on many ou special attackers including greninja.

This is what I ran

Muk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Shadow Sneak
- Power up punch
- Rockslide

-I noticed poison jab works extremely well with poison touch allowing to whittle down special attackers who can't dent it
-power up punch allows for boosting to make priority shadow sneak potentially deadly with no way of stopping it outside of haze and unaware
-Rockslide can kill pest tflame and after a poison jab to dragonite to break mulitscale and avoid a potential weakness policy can get you a kill

- You just need to be aware of powerful attackers/other boosters/earthquakes/psyshocks/darks coming in on shadow sneaks

You can even battle it out with mewtwo y if it has psychic instead of psyshock

In conclusion: I found that av muk functioned better at the start of gen 6 when it held a surprise factor but it definitely possesses a lot of functionality and is a fun addition to any team who can give it support in a wishpasser/ a levitate/flying user and a dark type. p.s It doesn't necessarily have to be used in nu (It can be that good)

 

[noknuckles]

I see AV as an offensive item, not a defensive one. The item allows pokemon to survive a hit it otherwise wouldn't survive and use that chance to retaliate. So to me, saying that Vileplume "is amazing at walling the meta" is more a point in favour of Black Sludge and and not AV. If Vileplume really is amazing at walling and I need something on my team that's that good at walling things, I wouldn't want to use AV.

I don't think AV Plume is a terrible idea. If I were to argue for its merits, I wouldn't emphasize its walling abilities because an AV Vileplume basically has a completely different role than a Black Sludge one. Their switch-ins may be similar, but they do different things with that switch-in opportunity. Defensive Vileplume may switch into Sawk with the goal of sitting there and wasting Sawk's time by healing and staying alive endless. AV Plume switches into Sawk, but since it can't live forever, its goal is to do something nasty offensively. Same switch-in, but the end result is different. Defensive Vileplume makes sure that as long as it is alive and healthy, Sawk won't get a kill. AV Plume makes sure that every time Sawk comes in, one of Sawk's teammates (or Sawk himself) is taking a big hit.

If I were to use Vileplume, it would be because of the 110 SpAtk. Its bulk would play a factor, but its offenses would be the reason I slap an AV on it. I've never used it though so I can't vouch for or against its effectiveness.

 

[Magis4Life]

I see AV as an offensive item, not a defensive one. The item allows pokemon to survive a hit it otherwise wouldn't survive and use that chance to retaliate. So to me, saying that Vileplume "is amazing at walling the meta" is more a point in favour of Black Sludge and and not AV. If Vileplume really is amazing at walling and I need something on my team that's that good at walling things, I wouldn't want to use AV.

I don't think AV Plume is a terrible idea. If I were to argue for its merits, I wouldn't emphasize its walling abilities because an AV Vileplume basically has a completely different role than a Black Sludge one. Their switch-ins may be similar, but they do different things with that switch-in opportunity. Defensive Vileplume may switch into Sawk with the goal of sitting there and wasting Sawk's time by healing and staying alive endless. AV Plume switches into Sawk, but since it can't live forever, its goal is to do something nasty offensively. Same switch-in, but the end result is different. Defensive Vileplume makes sure that as long as it is alive and healthy, Sawk won't get a kill. AV Plume makes sure that every time Sawk comes in, one of Sawk's teammates (or Sawk himself) is taking a big hit.

If I were to use Vileplume, it would be because of the 110 SpAtk. Its bulk would play a factor, but its offenses would be the reason I slap an AV on it. I've never used it though so I can't vouch for or against its effectiveness.

If I wanted to use Vileplume for the sake of its offensive capability, I would rather use lo than AV for more damage output and ability to gain certain 2HKOs and OHKOs that it otherwise wouldn't have. For example, with lo and assumining a 252HP/252 SATTK modest spread, vileplume has a near guaranteed OHKO against bulky SD Feraligatr at full, which can be helpful if said gatr has ice punch as +2 gatr with ice punch typically wrecks defensive plume. One thing that people seem t forget is that the purpose of the AV item is to be a special tank of sorts. Now this may appear obvious but many like to slap the AV item without keeping in mind whether said pokemon can actually fare against some of the potent special attackers in the tier. Vileplume can't really do that as Typhlosion, magmortar, cryogonal, pyroar, and most other special attackers easily beat it with or without AV. I guess you can maybe fare better against Rotom formes or omastar (though omastar has a solid chance of ohkoing AV plume after rocks and a shell smash) but is that really worth it in return for forfeiting the ever so useful reliable recovery it gets? At least with lo and reliable recovery with moonlight/synthesis, it can actually be worn down slightly less than AV while actually gaining OHKOs and 2HKOs it wouldn't otherwise have, such as against gatr or ferroseed with giga drain and hp fire respectively. With AV it can't even OHKO both threats while it still struggles to deal with a good deal of special attackers in the tier especially without a reliable recovery move (no giga drain does not count; it is not like you are going to heal a whole lot unless you hit a seismitoad with it). LO plume can actually beat plume one on one too, something AV plume cannot really do as plume can replenish its health with moonlight while AV plume can only giga drain to gain health. Offensive capability is not the only reason to slap an AV. The ability to actually tank special hits well is also important. Offensive capability is simply needed so the said pokemon is actually not deadweight without support moves. Maybe its just me, but it appears that some like using AV just for the hell of it.

 

[eden]

^ above post for truth...people just slap Assault Vest onto random things....just becuase it's there you don't have to use it.

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Hello everyone, Hope you're good.

So, i was playing peacefully, and i thought about Assault Vest Relicanth.
At first glance, Relicanth seems to be a perfect Pokemon for Assault Vest, with 100/130/65 Bulk, and a fairly decent 90 Attack, alongside with the almighty Head Smash + Rock Head combo.
So i tried this set of Relicanth:

Relicanth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Waterfall

It was kinda effective to say the least.
But i have a problem with this set. I haven't tried Relicanth before, and a better set may exist.
So i wanted to ask to all of you:

Is AV Relicanth a thing? Is this even reliable?
If no, what should i use instead?

Thanks for the answer!

PS: I'm really sorry for my poor English, hope you'll understand me.
PS2: Yeah, i'm new, i did a thread about it, i just re post here, i just noticed we could talk about AV here. Sorry :(

 

[TSM ryan]

Hello everyone, Hope you're good.

So, i was playing peacefully, and i thought about Assault Vest Relicanth.
At first glance, Relicanth seems to be a perfect Pokemon for Assault Vest, with 100/130/65 Bulk, and a fairly decent 90 Attack, alongside with the almighty Head Smash + Rock Head combo.
So i tried this set of Relicanth:

Relicanth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Waterfall

It was kinda effective to say the least.
But i have a problem with this set. I haven't tried Relicanth before, and a better set may exist.
So i wanted to ask to all of you:

Is AV Relicanth a thing? Is this even reliable?
If no, what should i use instead?

Thanks for the answer!

PS: I'm really sorry for my poor English, hope you'll understand me.
PS2: Yeah, i'm new, i did a thread about it, i just re post here, i just noticed we could talk about AV here. Sorry :(

I guess Relicanth wouldn't be the "worst" AV user, as it isn't losing much utility, but at the same time, I doubt an AV is going to save it from a 4x effective grass hit. When you say what I should use instead, I'm not sure if you mean what AV user I should use instead, or what Relicanth set I should use instead. But regardless, for AV, you'd probably be better off using Hariyama. As far as a Relicanth set goes, perhaps a standard Life Orb or Choice Band set would be best.

 

[noknuckles]

I guess the question is... is Relicanth's special bulk worth salvaging? An LO set will forfeit any shot at taking any neutral special attack, but it can still function as a physical tank. If you were to go AV, maybe you can try max SpDef in favour of HP. 100/130 physical bulk is very good so it should be usable uninvested.

As a general rule, investing in a low stat helps that stat more on a percentage basis than investing in a high stat. To illustrate, imagine spending 4 EV points on a 1 HP Pokemon. Your 1 HP Pokemon now has 2 HP for a 100% increase in HP. Now imagine spending 4 EV points on a 200 HP Pokemon. That 1 extra HP increases it to 201 for a 0.5% increase in HP. Comparing a 1 HP Pokemon with a 200 HP Pokemon is extreme, but it also applies to say comparing a 292 HP Pokemon with a 356 one; it's just easier to see the reasoning for the super extreme cases.

Note: I'm not saying always invest in low stats, don't get me wrong! I'm just saying that if you wanted to test for its survivability on the special side, SpDef investment would be the best

Also your English is perfectly fine. A lot of people who speak English as their first language type worse than you (like me).

 

[edavis707]

No mention of Assault Vest Luxray?

Luxray @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Ice Fang

With already base defenses of 80/79/79 and a very helpful ability in Intimidate, Luxray can tank hits with the Assault Vest, while dishing out massive damage with a sky high base 120 Attack. I don't think this needs much explaining, but I've been trying it out on Showdown and it's been very effective. Unfortunately, Luxray has no form of recovery with the AV, but a Wish passer like Audino or Lickylicky can solve that problem.

 

[Magis4Life]

No mention of Assault Vest Luxray?

Luxray @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Ice Fang

With already base defenses of 80/79/79 and a very helpful ability in Intimidate, Luxray can tank hits with the Assault Vest, while dishing out massive damage with a sky high base 120 Attack. I don't think this needs much explaining, but I've been trying it out on Showdown and it's been very effective. Unfortunately, Luxray has no form of recovery with the AV, but a Wish passer like Audino or Lickylicky can solve that problem.

Luxray has always been interesting to me. Now I typically have used it as a wallbreaker, in particular the lo mixattacker, guts all out attacker, and choice band, though luxray has always been rather lackluster in that regard and in general magmortar and electrivire outclass it. I have also used the defensive set last gen and in fourth gen as it has rather solid bulk with intimidate especially. Now I am interested to see how AV luxray can fare in the metagame and might test it out. Now luxray lacks a support movepool so that is not an issue. However, luxray not only lacks some form of recovery but has very little resists to utilize, resisting only electric and steel? Luxray also doesn't hit as hard enough despite possessing a respectable base 120 attack stat. Electrivire possesses a rather high attack stat as well but typically lacks power in the coverage it brings. Luxray has no movepool; the four moves u have are the only useful moves it really can bring. Ice fang is piss weak and superpower has a nasty side effect that is rather counterintuitive to assault vest. I prefer using an assault vest Mon that actually possesses decent coverage and can hit hard against some of the special threats in the meta game. I wanted to ask you in what way it was useful and when you found it effective. Nevertheless i do like luxray and perhaps assault vest could be useful for it.

 

[edavis707]

Luxray has always been interesting to me. Now I typically have used it as a wallbreaker, in particular the lo mixattacker, guts all out attacker, and choice band, though luxray has always been rather lackluster in that regard and in general magmortar and electrivire outclass it. I have also used the defensive set last gen and in fourth gen as it has rather solid bulk with intimidate especially. Now I am interested to see how AV luxray can fare in the metagame and might test it out. Now luxray lacks a support movepool so that is not an issue. However, luxray not only lacks some form of recovery but has very little resists to utilize, resisting only electric and steel? Luxray also doesn't hit as hard enough despite possessing a respectable base 120 attack stat. Electrivire possesses a rather high attack stat as well but typically lacks power in the coverage it brings. Luxray has no movepool; the four moves u have are the only useful moves it really can bring. Ice fang is piss weak and superpower has a nasty side effect that is rather counterintuitive to assault vest. I prefer using an assault vest Mon that actually possesses decent coverage and can hit hard against some of the special threats in the meta game. I wanted to ask you in what way it was useful and when you found it effective. Nevertheless i do like luxray and perhaps assault vest could be useful for it.

I would say it's niche is stopping sweepers, because it's hard to one-shot and it can hit back hard, usually with super-effective damage with it's coverage. Don't feel the need to elaborate on it any more.