An old friend: UU Semi-stall/bulky offense (peaked 63# after ladder restart)

[silenced]

...By the way, if someone could recommend me a way to upload proof of ladder peak, that would be fantastic...

Note: I forgot to reactivate my main (silenced) after the latest ladder crash. Burnt is an alt of mine that I use to test sun teams in OU (not particularly good ones anyway). I just decided to keep going with this alt in UU after realising several games in that I forgot to change back.

Anyway, this is an update of an old team of mine that I submitted a while back, but I figured its been through enough changes/don't necromance/doesn't look too good, that I should just make a new thread. I've tried to make other teams (variants of this one, challenge teams, TR, OU builds), but I always seem to come back to this one. Unfortunately, if there was an analogy to describe that, it would be like a boozehound returning to the pub. This team represents a bad habit that I can't shake, though why I say that will become more obvious as I explain the team.

So the team is focused on laying hazards, while trying to create favourable match-ups and slowly wearing everything down for a scarf flygon sweep, or wear everything down while my 'mons remain healthy enough to inflict further kills. It's the sort of team that places heavy reliance on a positive ratio of opponents pokemon down vs your pokemon down, though I make exceptions sometimes (e.g last mon sweepers).

The team

Zapdos @Leftovers
Pressure
192 HP, 252 DEF, 38 SpA, 28 SPE
Bold (+Def, -Atk)
IV's 2 Atk, 30 Def
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Roost
-Roar

I'd have to say Zapdos is my MVP for most matches, as its often finding itself having to phaze repeatedly, often against multiple sweepers, all the while hoping to find time to roost of all that damage (Including SR damage). The movepool isn't exactly standard, as I chose this to score neutral damage while phazing dangers to my team. Being able to tank various hits, including crap from mienshao, heracross, +1 outrage from DD Kingdra, even LO + SF Rockslide from darmanitan is fantastic really. A slight EV change has been implemented in bold. some SpA remains for now, since I think I outspeed most relevant threats with 28 spe EV's.

Changes: I have no idea what the hell I am doing with the EV spread. I could use a more efficient one really, since the 60 EV's in SpA aren't doing the job I originally intended (I had hoped to KO SR empoleon, but it's just not doing that). I should probably also change thunderbolt to discharge while I think of it too...

Cobalion @ Expert Belt
Justified
76 Atk, 204 SpA, 232 Spe
Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
-Close Combat
-Hidden Power Ice
-Stealth Rock
-Volt Switch

A mix of offensive pivot, SR setter and breaker of defensive cores, particularly those involving umbreon or gliglax, with the ability to volt-switch out of more troubling match-ups. Movepool is standard for the mixed attacker, scoring neutral coverage minimum on the tier. It also acts as an important check to pokemon such as sharpedo and weavile, though it must be near full health to pull that off. EV's I stole from another thread as suggested...I think by Cim.

Changes: Either I need a new EV spread/purpose, or to scrap it. I find CC is not doing nearly enough damage to targets that I need it to do against (particularly snorlax and LO mienshao variants) and in some matches I find I simply cant set SR up.

Snorlax @ Choice Band
Thick Fat
252 Atk, 52 Def, 200 SpD, 4 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -Spe)
-Return
-Crunch
-Pursuit
-Earthquake

CB snorlax...well I do need it unless I want to be picked apart by chandelure (grumbles at people who insist on using flame body as an ability). This is pretty much standard based on the teams made by the professionals of UU: Max attack, a small speed creep, enough bulk physically to handle +1 DD Kingdra, and the rest into its godly special bulk. Moves are standard (I'll take crunch over fire punch for cofagrigus). Not a lot to say about this set that isn't already known really...

Changes: If it weren't for that god-damn fiery light fixture with its flame body, I'd have P2 back in this slot, since I find snorlax gets worn down a bit too easily than I'd like. Then again, P2 has some issues with 4MSS, so a simpler option, especially a hard hitter helps. Also the fact I have 3 choice locked pokemon is a bit of a problem, especially with no spinner...

Slowbro @Choice Specs
Regenerator
154 HP, 252 SPA, 102 DEF
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
-Scald
-Fire Blast
-Psyshock
-Trick

Choice specs slowbro. Designed to blast holes when possible, and switch. Alongside Zapdos and Snorlax, This makes my defensive core. zapdos takes dark/fighting attacks, Snorlax takes just about all special attacks (sometimes even focus blast if I encounter it) and slowbro takes the physical attacks zapdos cannot take. Basically, when in doubt, launch scalds. If desperate, I can also use trick to incapacitate stall walls too. 154HP hits a regenerator and a leftovers number, in case I trick a leftovers onto it, as crippling tanks with choice specs has been a godsend in several battles, while the extra def ev's allow it to be an agressive defender as part of the core.

Changes: I'm fairly happy with this unless someone has issues with my choice of EV's here.

Roserade @Black sludge
Natural Cure
162 HP, 252 SpA, 88 Spe
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
-Synthesis
-Spikes
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb

Credit to PTJon7 for this set. I love the power Roserade provides as well as being a nuisance to bulky waters (well most of them anyway). Moveset is about standard for a spiking set, hitting hard with its STABs while healing itself with synthesis (or giga drain), and setting those annoying spikes. The Speed EV's supposedly allow me to outpace positive base 60 speed pokes (useful for empoleon I guess). The rest go to a combo of bulk and attack, allowing me a second (although shaky) check to SubCM rakiou, other grass types, water types, and sableye (by that, I just keep using sludgebomb until poison chance happens. There's not a lot else either of them can do to each other, unless roserade wants health back with giga drain).

Changes: I used to use a bulky T-spikes variant with sleep powder...and I find I really miss sleep powder despite the shaky accuracy...I just don't know what to choose there...I also miss the bulk a fair bit as there's a lot of pressure on snorlax to tank those special moves...

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
-Earthquake
-U-turn
-Outrage
-Aerial Ace

Late game cleanup or dangerous threat remover. Adamant is chosen for more power, as there is not a lot of scarfed pokemon between base 85-100 speed that flygon can't either tank a hit from, or that can be dealt with by snorlax. I'd really like fire punch over aerial ace in the 4th slot, but sadly fire punch does not KO heracross without a considerable amount of prior damage, which is something I prefer not to rely on (a bit weird really given my hazard setting...). Everything else is standard fare for scarf flygon.

Changes: If people think its a good idea, changing aerial ace for another move would be nice, especially if it did around...oh lets say 75% to sashlass, since my strategy for that is to volt-switch out with cobalion, and KO with flygon, to avoid more than 1 layer of spikes going up. Preferably not stone edge though, as its bad enough I risk flygon so early, let alone risk it dying without killing froslass.

Major Problems

For the most part, I feel I cover specific threats reasonably well, barring a select few. The few that spring to mind are...

-Suicune: Crocune builds/phazers aren't problems, either being phazed out by zapdos, or crippled by trick from slowbro. Offensive CM variants...I pretty much ragequit. I can't damage them fast enough while they can wreck a good portion of my team. Considering I need to remain up in advantage of pokemon being fainted, this is unacceptable.
-Weavile: Swords Dance = GG unless I can somehow work out which coverage move it lacks. Even then Ice/Dark is doing a number to my team. Unboosted weavile can be dealt with by a healthy cobalion, or phazed by zapdos.
-Hail: Roserade can smash through most of hail singlehandedly, but only snorlax can safely deal with ice attacks coming at me. How I fare here really depends on what the hail team uses, and having the advantage of numbers against walrein.
-Sashlass + 5 sweepers: Almost always a loss. Try as I might, there is always something on this sort of team that stuffs me up. Either I mispedict against froslass and lose something important, or lose zapdos too early, or I mispredict...I just cannot seem to deal with this sort of team, and unfortunately, its rather popular

The last option on the threat list is the biggest problem. I can beat weaker teams no problem, but I fail against most of the better ladder players/hyper offense players unless my prediction is spot on. This team has become a sort of bully: Thrives on the weak, fails against the strong. It's just not acceptable to be playing such a team, but I keep getting suckered in to replay it because its mostly successful, and its a really bad cycle I can't break.

Any comments, suggestions, feedback welcome...except for suggesting rapid spinners. I'd rather not include them if I can help it, since from experience, those give me the greatest edge in my battles because of the blatantly obvious free turn, which I don't want to give opponents.

 

[GenXXZ]

Hey cool team! I'm a big fan of the Snorlax/Slowbro defensive core. It's amazing how well those lazy little genwuns take hits! Just a couple things though;

I'm confused; if you're worried about Flame Body Chandy then why are you using choice band Snorlax? In that case I'd almost say Porygon2 is a better choice. Although, if you're worried about Snorlax getting worn out, a ResTalk set might be better for him. You won't need to worry about Flame Body and I think Crunch still OHKOs so you're good there. Basically, pursuit the Chandy, take the burn, rest it off.

For your Roserade, If you want to maintain power and have more defensive presence additionally, maybe you could try Leaf Storm over Giga Drain and Rest over Synthesis. Rest has good synergy with Natural Cure and Leaf Storm has good synergy with Natural Cure. It'll hit hard, and you'll be able to invest in your bulk a little more.

 

[silenced]

Thanks for the reply

Well, the issue is more that flame body chandelure can only be dealt with by snorlax, since if P2 doesn't trace flash fire, it will be 2HKO'd by fire blast, regardless of spread. A burn is a small risk, but worth it not to have to sack something every time it comes in.

I don't overly like the leaf storm idea, since I'm concerned that might really hurt on top of 3 choice-locked attackers, and worsen my match-up against hail. A rest talk variant of snorlax might help me better though, since I could use a second phazer, and it would help vs suicune variants that cause me issues...

 

[Iminyourcloset]

Hey there! Pretty nice team you've got here.
A couple things I'd like to change though:

Your team seems pretty choice-heavy. Your main hard-hitters are all locked into one move at a time :/.
To remedy this, I would suggest changing snorlax's current CB set to a Leftovers set, and putting Whirlwind over Crunch. This allows you to have an attacker with the ability to change moves, and the ability to phaze anyone out, which you currently only have on Zapdos. Plus, Crunch doesn't do very much anyway; it doesn't do enough to be notable to Cofagrigus, and for Chandelure, just use Earthquake if you think it's going to stay in. (in fact, Earthquake doesn't make contact, which means Flame Body can't activate.) If you don't want to use Pursuit, but think it's switching out, just use Whirlwind. (SR hurts)

Getting to Zapdos, I believe you should dedicate it as either a special or physical wall. It's very good at tanking hits, despite its misleading stat distribution. Plus, with Whirlwind on Snorlax, you could replace Roar for Heat Wave or even Substitute. I would suggest physically defensive, as that's closest to what you have right now.

Next, I'm going to say something about Cobalion. As for moves, personally, I would replace HP ice with Taunt, as to get the jump on Gligar and other slower support mons. I suggest you make it more focused on being a bulky yet fast SR setter. Take most of the EVs out of your attack stats and put them into HP. I feel like you'll appreciate it. Also, I would change Expert Belt to Leftovers; Cobalion really appreciates the slow health regeneration. Or if you want, a Lum berry for temporary status immunity, and the ability to safely taunt Sableye that try to burn you before taunting with WoW.

Hopefully I helped with my suggestions! Good luck ^_^; very nice team you've got there.

 

[silenced]

Thanks closet.

I might take your advice for a few suggestions, as I would like to get whirlwind onto snorlax, but I do need to be able to hit cofagrigus hard unless I want to be annihilated under trickroom.

Again, I need to stress this Flame Body Chandelure is a problem because I would prefer to use P2 over snorlax, but because trace would not get flash fire, P2 instead takes great damage from fire blast instead of being immune. I do not care about chandelure's ability otherwise.

Zapdos is already a physical wall, I'll probably just fix up the errant EV's soon unless I get a new suggestion. It does however need to be a phazer, as one lone phazer is hurting me too much at present, especially against hyper offense.

The idea behind cobalion was to have a set of moves that helped to break common stall cores while laying SR (e.g I get SE damage/pivoting against all of snorlax/gligar/bulky water, while pivoting out of dangers like roserade or bulkier waters such as suicune). Taunt could be useful, but I really need a more concrete idea of what I'm doing with the EV spread, not just vague suggestions. I can't work with those. Still, I could use more HP ev's since weavile is so dangerous...

Also, on the note of EV suggestions, any different ones would be appreciated if you can tell me how they would help specifically (especially cobalion or roserade at this point)

 

[Grey Knight]

you can upload it here http://postimage.org/,
nice cobalion but you can always change expert belt you won't get surprise ko many times with it ,after all i hardly remember a match in the high ladder with more than 1 non prediction super effective hit ko
expert belt is overrated after all you can't bluff a choice set since coba is a stealth rock setter.
good luck with the ladder

 

[silenced]

Thanks grey knight, I might do that anyway, as well as tinker with the EV's a bit. E-belt was probably not needed anyway If I can find a better way to redistribute the EV's (mostly I want to make sure I can still sucker in and kill other flygon so my own may clean up)

No other changes you would suggest?

Edit: Damnit, the e-belt was important to insure the KO on flygon...now I'm not sure what to do. I guess it's up to zapdos for that role as well then...

 

[Grey Knight]

I don't know many things about the UU tier the only thing i 've succeeded there is a #20
peak in the PO ladder using a cheap Rain dance team ,and from my experience with that rain team and especial the monster called life orb kingdra under rain i highly recommend to watch out for it you have 3 poks that can take a Rain boosted but 1 one of them slowbro cant throw anything back roserade fails to ice beam, you have snorlax but you have to sacrifice something in order to give it safe switch in because even snorlax gets 2hkoed by it
and there is always that snail omastar that can finish what kingdra started or even shell smash for complete devestation


also from the physical side there is Feraligtr and and Kabutops they both wreck
your team , don't be surprised when you see that giga drain wont 1hko feraligtr but it will actually help it grap the torrent boost synchronized with sword dance and 1hko poor roserande with aqua jet under rain the next turn dont be surprised either when you see the a 1hko by aqua tail in your slowbro,

i don't want to troll you with all this rain dance rhetoric but i am sure you know it's power and that you crossed a few High power rain teams up in the ladder in fact i am pretty sure that rain dance teams are the most effective and easiest teams to use there.

Oh and what is your protection against the king oh UU heracross ? if your zaptos gets
1hkoed either by predictions of heracross him self or by stealth rock damage combined with resisted hits buffering like hjk ,you will see your pokemons falling one by one to to megahorn/close combat heracross or even an simple substitute +3 heracross .

you can try scaring off tornadus with zaptos and scoring an prediction ko with coverage move at least you will score a nice ko that will give you a small avd
i don't think that spinners are so needed either i think they are over rated ,you can also try some solid physical bulk like suicune that can handle most rain dance teams just by its self while managing to handle a +1 heracross

sorry for my english i am european