Accuracy v. Power

[Nix_Hex]

Let's face it, accuracy is typically an afterthought when designing a new set or even on a turn-by-turn basis. Inaccurate moves are pretty much non-negotiable since they can make the difference between a 2HKO and OHKO. Without Hydro Pump, Specs Politoed and Scarf Keldeo don't boast the insane power that they do with Hydro Pump. Sure, both of those mons often run Surf alongside Hydro Pump, but it's usually used for picking off weakened foes, not for getting that huge one-turn megahit that Hydro Pump gives.

By far the biggest culprits of bad accuracy are Stone Edge and Focus Blast. Consider Stone Edge. Let's forget about the high crit rate for a second; it has the same base power as Earthquake but only 8 PP and 80% accuracy. Yet, heavy hitters like Terrakion and Band/ScarfTar don't achieve nearly the same amount of insane power as they would if they were to use, say, Rock Slide. Focus Blast is on a whole other level of bad. It has 70% accuracy and 8 PP and is pretty much a crutch move for many special attackers (Politoed, Thundurus-T, Alakazam, Gengar). "Assuming Focus Blast hits" is a trademarked phrase in C&C and theorymon. It's the move you begrudgingly put on your special attackers and complain about when it loses a game for you. Hidden Power Fighting is hardly a viable alternative, given that Focus Blast is almost twice as powerful and things like Thundurus-T need that open Hidden Power slot for HP Ice, and it forces a 30 Speed IV. Aura Sphere is neat for its decent power and 100% accuracy, but its distribution is so narrow that it's barely an afterthought.

Fire Blast is overlooked, with 85% and 8 PP, and is pretty much ALWAYS used over Flamethrower unless the Pokemon doesn't learn Fire Blast (Genesect, Zoroark). Ninetales needs all of the power it can get, after all, and it lets offensive Heatran hit like a nuke. Luckily, Volcarona has the slightly-weaker-than-Flamethrower alternative called Fiery Dance, which is actually better than Flamethrower due to that chance for a Special Attack boost.

The most devastatingly inaccurate move, imo, is Draco Meteor. It makes Specs Latios so damn powerful, and is the sole reason that Ice Beam is a waste of a slot. However, its imperfect 90% accuracy is so often overlooked and depended on so much that a Draco miss is usually devastating for Latios. That awesome unmatched speed and revenge killing power from Scarf Latios can go amiss at all the wrong moments and may just cost you the match. Luckily, Dragon Pulse is there for back up when you don't need the huge power from Draco Meteor, similarly to Surf with Hydro Pump.

Dishonorable mentions go to Leech Seed, Toxic, and Will-O-Wisp. Heck, ROCK SLIDE doesn't even have 100% accuracy!

Some points for discussion:
1) Are low accuracy moves really non-negotiable as I say in the second sentence?
2) Have you had success or failure putting Rock Slide over Stone Edge on Terrakion or Tyranitar? Flamethrower over Fire Blast on Heatran? Hidden Power Fighting over Focus Blast on Alakazam or Reuniclus? These are just a few examples, feel free to share your own!
3) Perfect accuracy moves are generally much less powerful, as has been stated a million times in this OP. Is the power drop worth the extra accuracy? Do you take precautions to make up for the lack of power (multiple hazards or Volt-Turn to wear your opponent down, or something else)?

Edit: 85% for fire blast

 

[Tassa]

Just one thing : Fire Blast has a 85% accuracy, not 80%.
Sorry for not contributing more to discuss about your subject, don't have the time yet.

 

[UltiMario]

It's almost not fair to pick on Focus Blast or Stone Edge considering most mons have to deal with HP Fighting or Rock Slide if they want a more accurate alternative, both of which do so little damage that you really don't have a choice in the matter.

Surf/HPump, Fire Blast/Flamethrower are probably the best examples of acc vs power. Most people just go for the power (especially if weather is on their side) since it usually means the difference between a 2HKO and an OHKO or a 3HKO/2HKO. That difference wins games 4/5 times and loses games 1/5 roughly.

Statistically you're better off depending on these stronger moves if the above really is the case, which it is quite often.

The more offensive a Pokemon is, the more it feels forced to run these strong attacks. Latios will always be carrying Meteor > Pulse on Specs (or both), but Blissey is content with using Flamethrower over Fire Blast. Basically the more important the Pokemon is as an attacker, the more important it is for them to hit as hard as possible with their one turn. Forcing out is so easy in this metagame (assuming good prediction) that you need to make a single turn count as much as possible on offense. This is why Power > Accuracy. I don't think stuff like Landorus could make its kind of impact if it didn't have access to Focus Blast, nor Keldeo without Hydro Pump, nor Latios without Meteor. These are the moves that define the metagame, not stuff like Surf or Dragon Pulse.

 

[Schpoonman]

1) Oftentimes they are nonnegotiable. Landorus-I had Focus Blast because it was its only option. There's also the nuclear power coming from something like Tyranitar's Banded Stone Edge, which 2HKOs Skarmory after Rocks.
2) The only time I put HP Fighting over Focus Blast or Rock Slide over Stone Edge is on boosting sets. TR Reuniclus needs that immediate power, as does 4-Attack Alakazam. Terrakion and Tyranitar are both punished super effectively too easily to consider boosting most of the time so they need to rely on the immediate power of these moves.
3) Often times you need a 100% accurate move to finish off a weakened opponent or for a guaranteed sweep. Scarf Keldeo in the rain often uses Surf to sweep weakened teams (it's happened to me enough times) because a miss from Hydro Pump is that damaging. I've seen Starmies run Surf under rain because the boost from the rain makes up for the power difference and then some from a weather-neutral Hydro Pump. Yes, a rain-boosted Pump is even MORE powerful still, but they often don't need that much power.

 

[mael]

It depends on the Situation, but usually I'd go with the higher base power move on my sweeper and my powerhouses, but if missing one move in 90% of the situations will mean that I lose the game I tend to take the more accurate move. Like I once had a really ScarfHeatran weak team in DPP and my best answer for it was Starmie and if Hydropump missed, and my Starmie died I didn't have any chance of winning, so I used Surf. And on defensive Pokemons I use the 100% Acc moves too, especially if they are supposed to counter a few mons that otherwise would threaten my team.

On the other hand, if I have a million Pokemon to beat Heatran, Infernape and the similar, as it usually is the case, I am surely going to go for the Hydropump, even though it might miss and even though those misses might cost me the game in some situations, but more often the additional Power will help me winning. It alls depends on the team, but usually you can say, drop the power on defensive mons, unless you really need a fire blast sdef Heatran to counter whatever, and go for the powermove on sweeper/wallbreaker if you can afford a miss.

 

[GCSChris]

1) Are low accuracy moves really non-negotiable as I say in the second sentence?
Probably. Like you said, HP Fighting is no Focus Blast. The same is true with the smaller difference of Hydro Pump and Surf.

2) Have you had success or failure putting Rock Slide over Stone Edge on Terrakion or Tyranitar? Flamethrower over Fire Blast on Heatran? Hidden Power Fighting over Focus Blast on Alakazam or Reuniclus? These are just a few examples, feel free to share your own!
Not really, no. :p I've tried HP Fighting on special attackers and Rock Slide on Terrakion. The results were pretty underwhelming. Sure you're not going to miss, but you probably also miss a KO

3) Perfect accuracy moves are generally much less powerful, as has been stated a million times in this OP. Is the power drop worth the extra accuracy? Do you take precautions to make up for the lack of power (multiple hazards or Volt-Turn to wear your opponent down, or something else)?
I feel that low base power moves are great as a back up for killing off low health opposing Pokemon like you mentioned. Although I do feel that some precautions make up for the lack of power, but it only makes sense to use the low BP moves as a back up type move.

For example, you set up Stealth rock a a couple layers of spikes with your Custap Skarmory on turn one, and you are left with only your Choice Scarf Keldeo. The opposing team is generally mid-low on health. That's the kind of situation when I would lock Keldeo into Surf over Hydro Pump (obviously there are a bunch of other variables, but I think you catch my drift here). Low base power moves are situational and generally less useful than higher base power moves.

EDIT: Aura Sphere > Focus Blast.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

My thoughts on power are more or less in line with Jeremy Clarkson's thoughts on power: MORE POWERRR!

Okay, I was not being entirely serious there. But my views on power vs. accuracy really depend on the move. If the more powerful and less accurate move is much more powerful than the less powerful and more accurate equivalent, to the point that the more powerful option would be more likely to give me KOs that the more accurate option couldn't, then I'm going with the more powerful move (Examples: Focus Blast > HP Fighting, Stone Edge > Rock Slide.) However, if the power difference is so small that it is unlikely to make a significant difference in obtaining OHKOs/2HKOs, then I'm going for the more accurate option no doubt (Examples: Close Combat > Hi Jump Kick (if the Pokemon learns both moves), Dark Pulse > Night Daze.) But from my experience, the latter scenario is very unlikely, so in general, Power > Accuracy since it could mean the difference between a 2HKO and a OHKO.

However, if a Pokemon can learn both Aura Sphere and Focus Blast, I'd go for Aura Sphere every time since Focus Blast is just that bad. However, Aura Sphere has extremely poor distribution and nobody uses Special Lucario, so the odds of being put in that scenario are slim to none.

 

[Shayhok]

I think everyone knows there isn't a straight answer to the question of accuracy vs power. The closest answer we've arrived at in the past was a simply accuracy * power formula, explaining our choices for focus blast over hp fighting and ice beam over blizzard. However, base power is actually really important because of how it is used to calculate damage. It doesn't seem like it at first, but I've liked using the following example:

vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in rain:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Surf: 222-262 (34.04 - 40.18%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gastrodon Hydro Pump: 222-262 (34.04 - 40.18%)

Now I know most specs Keldeo run timid, and specs Gastrodon isn't really a thing, but the point is that by choosing hydro pump over surf, which is a 25 base power increase, you make up for a deficit of 37 base special attack. There are a lot of pokemon now that can switch in to your weaker move without even being designed to do so (i.e. not a wall), and switch the pace of the game in their favor. Even if you're not choiced, higher base power moves on things like Starmie that have relatively low offensive stats nowadays force your opponents to choose their switches more carefully or take real damage from your attack.

I'm not saying always run moves like hydro pump over surf, because things like scarf Keldeo really appreciate being able to come in late and click surf 2-4 times to clean up the remaining pokemon without the chance of hax. However, by opting for the higher base power on weaker pokemon stat-wise, you at least have the chance of doing an actual dent to whatever switches in rather than just tickling it. You could look at it like "well, even if I miss, I wouldn't have done damage that mattered, so I have to take the risk," since there are many sets like scarf Keld that are used in a way in which the lesser damage would actually matter.

 

[Legitimate Username]

I almost always use more accurate moves. Surf over Hydro Pump has always been a no brainer, except on Rotom-W. The words "missing out on some OHKOs/2HKOs" can do little to convince me in that case. For example, I've used an Expert Belt Keldeo with Surf/Secret Sword/Icy Wind/HP Electric with alongside QuiverPass Venomoth. If Keldeo manages to get to +1 SpA/+1 Spe, then Surf is definitely powerful enough, whereas a Hydro Pump miss could ruin that very hard-earned sweeping chance. I think it's also notable is that I used Wide Lens with Venomoth in order to make Sleep Powder miss 30% less often. After all, Leftovers wasn't really a major help.

However, it's a different story with Flamethrower and Fire Blast. 85% accuracy is more forgivable than 80%, so there are some situations in which I'd choose it. Volcarona, for example, will almost never bother with Flamethrower when Fiery Dance is available as a 100% accurate attack. However, a +1 Fire Blast is still far stronger than a +2 Fiery Dance, doesn't rely on a shaky 50% boost chance, and has still has a significant 25% smaller miss chance than Hydro Pump.

Rock Slide is never worth bothering with. I might use it a bit more often if it offered 100% accuracy, but compared to Stone Edge, it's a huge power drop without even eliminating all of the potential for bad luck. Focus Blast and HP Fighting are similar, although rather than failing to offer perfect accuracy, HP Fighting is just overwhelmingly weak.

So overall I'd say that I'm in favour of accurate moves most of the time (I feel kinda alone in this though), but there are definitely cases in which the power is worth it.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

I like to think that Stall teams a less reliant on high base power / less accuracy moves, mainly because they aren't trying to hit hard, but rather deal residual damage that racks up. Pokemon like Jellicent, Tentecruel, Heatran, and other stallish Pokemon always go for the weaker move(Scald over Hydro Pump, Lava Plume over Fire Blast etc), since stall teams prefer consistency. There's also a benefit to using these kinda moves, and that's a 30% status. I'd say as a person who mainly runs balance and stallish kinda teams, that I much prefer these kinda moves over say Fire Blast.

However, I also think that because Politoed, many Pokemon can now freely spam high powered low accuracy moves with no draw backs (Hurricane and Thunder). This alone makes Pokemon like Tornadus-I and Moltres viable in OU. The same could be said about Hail and Blizzard spam, but Hail is no where near as common as Rain, and Rain increases 2 moves accuracy, which I think is pretty big.

Also, I think I agree with NixHex when he says Draco Meteor is much more devastating when it misses compared to say Stone Edge. I'd also like to add that missing Icy Wind on Keldeo is also pretty devastating. I think the reason for this is because you generally don't expect them to ever miss, but they aren't 100% accurate for a reason, where as with Stone Edge, you kinda expect it to miss, and only rely on Stone Edge hitting if you absolutely have to.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I honestly think there's a line that people draw at the point where low accuracy becomes too much a sacrifice. Power is very important, and often times it is much more efficient to just use the more powerful move. However, this is usually only true as long as the move is 80% accurate or better. In the cases of Thunder and Blizzard, the accuracy is just too low to be safe. Hydro Pump only misses once out of every five tries on average, but these moves miss nearly one third of the time, and so Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are more efficient. Of course, the obvious exception here is Focus Blast, since there is no powerful alternative. However, I can almost guarantee that if Aura Sphere had a much larger distribution, it would be far more popular than Focus Blast due to the far better reliability.

I think the reason many draw this line at 80% accuracy simply has to do with the average power of an attack with accuracy factored in. For example, Surf has 95 base power and 100% accuracy, giving it 95 average power. Hydro Pump has 120 base power and 80% accuracy, giving it 96 average power. This means that while Surf is a bit more reliable, Hydro Pump hits just a tiny bit harder on average. That, combined with the good chance to turn certain 2HKOs into OHKOs/3HKOs into 2HKOs makes Hydro Pump worth it on offensive Pokemon. Thunder and Blizzard, however, have 120 base power and 70% accuracy, giving them 84 average power. This means that Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are significantly stronger on average (outside of the right weather, of course) and thus more efficient to use, and Aura Sphere would probably observe a similar preference to Focus Blast if it were more widespread.

As far as using the weaker but more accurate moves listed in the OP, I have been known to run Rock Slide on Scarf Terrakion. Sometimes the opponent's Salamence, Volcarona, Dragonite, etc. might be ready to sweep, and you absolutely need to KO with Terrakion at the risk of you getting swept. Provided the opponent is weak enough (you mainly just need Stealth Rock down to guarantee the KO on Dragonite and Salamence), using Rock Slide will give you a slightly more accurate alternative, lowering the risk of losing due to bad luck. As for other moves, I do occasionally run Flamethrower and Surf on Pokemon like Heatran and Keldeo, but it's usually alongside the more powerful and less accurate STABs. Scarf Keldeo in Rain and Scarf Heatran in Sun can be very dangerous late-game, and so sometimes it is enough to just sweep with the more accurate STAB and not have to risk missing the more powerful one. I don't run HP Fighting over Focus Blast very often, though, as usually I need the extra power or Hidden Power of some other type.

 

[C05ta]

Inaccurate moves are the reason top ladder players use stall over offensive teams. As much as stall gives you more room to "outplay" your opponent, the consistency offered by high-accuracy moves prevents costly losses to lower ranked players. On most of my ladder teams, the lowest accuracy move I'll have is Toxic/Draco Meteor, as I feel anything below 90% accuracy is simply too risky. If I can offer any advice for people trying to peak, it's to build your team around pokes that aren't dependent on inaccurate moves, because they will cost you games eventually.

 

[Nova]

This is a bit off topic for the discussion of accuracy vs power but I just want to start with something that shows the significance of accuracy. This is seen in Sleep inducing moves where Hypnosis (60%) and Sleep Powder (75%) are very rarely used whereas Spore (100%) is used on basically every set of every Pokemon who gets this move. Although all these moves cause the same effect, the accuracy differentiates them, making one of them arguably the best move in the game and the other 2 being fairly uncommon.

Now onto the discussion. I think low accuracy moves are actually negotiable. One of the main complaints is the low distribution of Aura Sphere. Pokemon such as Gengar and Alakazam get access to Focus Blast and use that as their Fighting type coverage as they cannot use Aura Sphere. The average power of Focus Blast is calculated to be 84 whereas Aura Sphere has a flat 90 base power. Many people would probably prefer Aura Sphere over Focus Blast, not only for the higher average base power but also because of the many battles they've lost to Focus Blast missing and the fact that it seems to never hit. However, there is a compromise that must be made when picking the safe but less powerful option in Aura Sphere. Take for example, Gengar vs. Tyranitar. With Aura Sphere, Gengar does about 75% to the 180 HP EV Choice Band Tyranitar which means Tyranitar usually lives and takes out Gengar. With Focus Blast, Gengar does 91%-100% to the same Tyranitar which means that if you hit, Tyranitar is going to be OHKO'ed with Stealth Rock and leave you with an intact Gengar. The trade here is whether you want the option of a 100% chance of doing 75% to the Tyranitar and losing your Gengar, or the option of having a 70% chance of OHKO'ing Tyranitar and leaving your Gengar healthy but with the downside being a 30% chance of doing no damage to Tyranitar and losing your Gengar.

I think the argument between Power and Accuracy also shifts during the course of a battle. If the situation mentioned in the previous paragraph happens in the middle of the battle, then I would say most people would take Aura Sphere and doing the guaranteed 75% which leaves Tyranitar to being revenge killed. However, if it's the last turn of the game, then you would pick Focus Blast over Aura Sphere as you have almost no shot of winning with Aura Sphere (barring a crit) and a 70% chance to win with Focus Blast. So I think yes, the power advantage of low accuracy moves is negotiable as they are certainly advantageous in certain situations.

With the offensive shift in BW, more Pokemon are sacrificing accuracy for power. Pokemon like Heatran are almost always running Fire Blast over Flamethrower, offensive Starmie using Hydro Pump over Surf, etc. One of the reasons is the introduction of Scald in BW and Lava Plume in DPPT. Comparing Scald to Surf, you sacrifice a little bit of power for an amazing 30% chance (but always seems like more) to inflict a burn. This has really cut down on the usage of the move Surf as if you're an offensive Pokemon then you're usually using Hydro Pump and if you're a defensive Pokemon then you're using Scald. Another reason I believe that has shifted players away from Flamethrower to Fire Blast and from Surf to Hydro Pump is the introduction of Sun and Rain in BW. With weather, these moves become immensely more powerful and the desire to deal as much damage as possible is heightened. Using Surf in Rain is a bit more powerful than a non-Rain Hydro Pump, but now I can use Hydro Pump in Rain and have a nuking attack. Outside of rain, a STAB Surf has a base power of 142.5 and a STAB Hydro Pump has a base power of 180, a difference of 37.5. In rain, STAB Surf has a base power of 213.75 and a STAB Hydro Pump has a base power 270, a difference of 56.25. With weather, the difference in base power between the 2 moves is increased by 50% which inclines players to have even more reason to choose the move with higher base power, ie. Hydro Pump.

 

[Boondocker]

I feel like the higher accuracy moves are better on everything except dedicated walbreakers, with the exception of HP Fighting and maybe Rock Slide. Yes the averages say the higher damage moves do more damage over time. But most of the time the extra damage DOESNT MATTER. For example, concider the situation of a Salamence going against a Scizor. A miss from Fire Blast means Mence is going to be hit by a second Bullet Punch or forced to switch, while a hit from Flamethrower means the Scizor is dead. You just cant afford a miss in moments like these.

 

[Hydro Pimp]

When I use Scarf Keldeo in rain, I have both Surf and Hydro Pump on the set, but I hardly ever use Hydro Pump. Surf in the rain hits like a truck anyway, so the only times I use Hydro Pump are if it's absolutely necessary to hit something like a weakened Celebi super hard on the switch (in a case where they may or may not switch, so HP Ice would be too risky to lock myself into), when it's to revenge +1 Volcarona, which Surf can't ohko, or if I'm behind in the battle and need to take chances to make up lost ground. But I hate putting myself in a position where I have to rely on an inaccurate move where a miss might cost me the game. Usually if I'm in a position like Keldeo locked into Hydro Pump against Rotom-W, which is in KO range, I'll switch rather than attack. Risk-reward is an important concept in Pokemon, and usually (for me anyway) the risk just isn't worth the reward, unless it's one of the scenarios I stated above. If you risk your win on an inaccurate move once per game, and you outplay your opponents 75% of the time, then you're only winning 60% of your games (80*.75). 1.5/1 win-loss isn't the greatest ratio (it's okay I guess), and basically having the maximum you can achieve be 4/1 isn't great either.

So for me, it's not the accurate move that's there as a secondary move for when you need the accuracy, it's the inaccurate move that's there for when you need that extra power and can justify the risk.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

I feel like the higher accuracy moves are better on everything except dedicated walbreakers, with the exception of HP Fighting and maybe Rock Slide. Yes the averages say the higher damage moves do more damage over time. But most of the time the extra damage DOESNT MATTER. For example, concider the situation of a Salamence going against a Scizor. A miss from Fire Blast means Mence is going to be hit by a second Bullet Punch or forced to switch, while a hit from Flamethrower means the Scizor is dead. You just cant afford a miss in moments like these.

4 SpA Salamence's Fire Blast always 2HKOes specially defensive Skarmory after SR (not factoring in the chance to miss because..... why the fuck would I); Flamethrower from the same Salamence only has about a 20% chance to do so. On my Salamence, I'd rather be able to 2HKO all variants of Skarmory and have a chance to miss rather than potentially not 2HKO a specially defensive Skarmory (as uncommon as it may be) with a move that is weaker but always hits.

Choice Band Tyranitar's Rock Slide never 2HKOes physically defensive Skarmory. The same Tyranitar's Stone Edge 2HKOes the same Skarmory after Stealth Rock. If you're using Rock Slide > Stone Edge on your CBTar.......... Have fun.

Choice Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump in rain is going to be doing a whole lot more damage to SpD Celebi than Surf is. Let's say Celebi is at, say, 90%. Switches in and SR is up? Now it has 77.5%. Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump in rain does a minimum of 39.6%. 39.6% * 2 = 79.2%, and that's if it gets minimum damage rolls twice. If it gets higher damage rolls, not even Leftovers would save Celebi. Ergo, if Celebi is not at maximum health (i.e. most of the match) it is absolutely not switching in on rain Hydro Pump, while it absolutely can switch in on Surf.

Obviously the extra power won't really matter against offensive Pokemon since they're probably not very bulky anyway, but against more defensive/bulky Pokemon, the extra power does matter.

 

[PDC]

The way I see it, sometimes you can have a bit of a choice to switch up moves in your preference, but other times it really is just going to bet the better decision to choose the more powerful one 95% of the time, outside of the small situations where you can miss. For example, BandTar is nowhere near as useful without a powerful Stone Edge which basically 2HKOs everything that comes in its way. Although it may have a pretty decent chance to miss, it is necessary to get important OHKOs and 2HKOs that otherwise a weaker, but more accurate move like Rock Slide, can't achieve. Pokemon like SpecsToed and LO Starmie usually choose Hydro Pump as it scores important 2HKOs or OHKOs. A Politoed Hydro Pump with Specs is a very dangerous move to any Pokemon, especially in Rain. You can basically 2HKO anything aside from Blissey, Specially Defensive Celebi, or Specially Defensive Rotom-W. Celebi even fears a Specs Ice Beam, which does quite a bit to it. LO Anal Starmie absolutely destroys some teams with a Hydro Pump, and because of that extra power you gain extra 2HKOs and OHKOs that otherwise you couldn't earn. However, Accuracy can differentiate depending on the type of move.

Support moves, when available, are usually preferred depending on Accuracy. Like stated above by Nova, when Spore is available for use, it is almost always used on the Pokemon. We can see this on Breloom and Amoonguss especially, who really prefer the support the move gives. A 100% accuracy can basically mean a Pokemon down if you get a bad roll on Sleep Turns. While Hypnosis and Sleep Powder always have the chance of missing. If say, Venusaur had Spore you would bet it would be used on a lot more sets than Sleep Powder is. A fast Spore is very dangerous, and considering how threatening Venusaur is, it would really become an extremely powerful part of the OU metagame, much more than it is now.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I think it depends a lot on what your team needs honestly, I don't know if we are suppose to reference other generations, but in GSC it is not uncommon to see someone using Thunder and even Dynamic Punch on a team seriously. Both moves give crucial possible KOs that otherwise they couldn't really get, against Snorlax in particular. In the modern generation this still carries, Terrakion and Keldeo don't get the KOs they needs with Rock Slide and Surf, they need Hydro Pump and Stone Edge for the Pokemon their team needs them to combat.

 

[Joeyboy]

Theres some really good discussion going on here, I just want to add a little something more. When I'm laddering I'll pick Accuracy over Power nine times out of ten. But if it were for a tournament match I'd be much more inclined to run Power over accuracy.

This is pretty much just due to the numbers, a team that relies a lot on something like Focus Blast might be losing like 15 games out of 50. But if its just one game I'm up for more of a gamble for the power.

Maybe thats just me though.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I think it's hard to make sweeping statments. The nature and bulk of the threats in the metagame, in relation to the Pokemon set being designed has a big effect on move selection.

To give a specific example:

For instance, in DPPt, I religiously used Flamethrower > Fire Blast on my Special TTar. I was using Sub-Ttar, which was an awesome wallbreaker in the meta at the time, and getting behind a Substitute could often mean getting a kill-- but you wanted to do massive damage/get a kill with that first Sub, because you'd almost never be given the chance to set up another. Also, Breloom was a common switch in to Tyranitar, and a major nuisance-- and Flamethrower often KO'd Breloom or massively crippled it even without Fire Blast's added power. To me, making sure I did massive damage to any Breloom, Skarmory, or Scizor from behind my hard-earned sub was MUCH more important that outright KO'ing them. Also the consequences for missing were tremendous. Sub-tar was a LOT more successful with Flamethrower > Fire Blast.

NOW though things are different-- first off, Breloom can kill TTar through Sub. Second, Breloom rarely switches directly into TTar anymore, because there are much more reliable Fighting types to switch in. Sub TTar in general is not very effective set anymore because of the even greater diversity of threats (requiring more coverage moves). With Latios and Latias unbanned, TTar is under pressure to invest a lot more in ATK and SpD, and to use Pursuit-- all of which detract from Flamethrower's effectiveness (forcing Sub out of the set, taking away TTar's ability to run SpA). Without SpA EVs (I'd invest 180+ in SpA back in DPP), Flamethrower is horribly weak, and TTar basically needs Fire Blast to do anything significant.

Basically, DPP Boah's main job was to wall break by fucking up its switch ins from behind a sub. You couldn't afford a miss on Scizor, Skarm, or Breloom switch ins-- you'd lose your valuable sub, and flamethrower from 180+ SpA fucks them pretty bad anyway. Now, bulky Mixtar's main job is to trap and kill Lati@s/Starmie, and maybe set up SR. Fire Blast from no SpA EVs is more of a deterent to stop Ferrothorn, Forry or Skarm from trying to set up-- and if it fucks up an unwary Scizor here or there, it's nice but not necessary. All of this leads to Fire Blast > Flamethrower.

People have talked about the difference in power leading to KOs-- but it's definitely possible for a metagame to exist where a Pokemon's power relative to the bulk of major threats may be such that you don't get many added KO's from the added power.

Or, a Pokemon may be SO POWERFUL that it doesn't need the added power.
Or, a Pokemon's role may be such that getting in an accurate hit is more critical than power.

Let's take Specs Kingdra in the initial BW2 metagame for instance. Thundurs-T, Keldeo, and Tornadus-T all out made offensive rain incredibly powerful. Most teams were at a major disadvatage against these massive threats. Specs Kingdra could outspeed and OHKO all of them-- it was an excellent pick for the metagame.

Generally speaking though, you wouldn't just bring out your Specs Kingdra and try to wall break with Hydro Pump-- because Ferrothorn was on almost every rain team, and you weren't going to risk your Kingdra's health on trying to get lucky with Hydro Pump. You'd keep your Kingdra to the end and go for a late game sweep.

In the vast majority of late game sweeps, you wouldn't be using Hydro Pump-- you'd have prepared the whole game to sweep through Tornads-T, Thundurus, or whatever frail or weakened mons remained. A miss was too critical; the result of the whole game is dependent on this mon's attacks hitting repeatedly. Moreover, Specs Rain Surf is just so fucking powerful it would one-shot everything in the late game anyway.

This may not be the best example, because Specs Kingdra was best off running all of its STABs, including Hydro Pump, Surf, Draco Meteor, and Dragon Pulse. However, if you played Kingdra at the time, you'd see that you almost never used Hydro Pump, and you'd use D. Meteor a lot less than Surf or Dragon Pulse. If your team forced you to fit in Ice Beam for Celebi or a Hidden Power, odds are Surf is the last move you'd consider taking out.

Ice Beam and Dragon Pulse are similar enough that you might think to replace Dragon Pulse first, but generally speaking, Hydro Pump was the most expentable (least used) move on the set. Its poor accuracy was too much of a problem for the role it played, and Specs Rain Surf was too strong relative to the frail meta for Hydro Pump's extra power to matter too often.


So really, it depends a lot on the meta's threats, and the nature of the set. Also how good the alternatives are-- on one end, Rock Slide and Hidden Power Fighting are just too crappy to consider; but the same could be said about Blizzard and Thunder outside of their respective weathers-- Ice Beam and T Bolt are too good relatively to consider that crappy 70% accuracy.

 

[Spinda]

I tend to run Scald ( cuz it's op and yes it's still really good on offensive mons ) over hydro pump on specs toad and surf over hydro pump on scarf keldeo, from my laddering experience, the increase in power really isn't worth the accuracy.
That being said, rock slide doesn't cut it and even I will use stone edge over that, albeit reluctantly..

 

[Royal Flush]

It's simple math really... if you have 0% chance to win by using Surf (not considering crits) and 64% to win by hitting Hydro Pump twice, 64 is higher than 0. People tend to feel safer with 100% and overlook these kind of situations.












Focus Blast still sucks though

 

[Spinda]

It's simple math really... if you have 0% chance to win by using Surf (not considering crits) and 64% to win by hitting Hydro Pump twice, 64 is higher than 0. People tend to feel safer with 100% and overlook these kind of situations.












Focus Blast still sucks though

It's often a waste to use both, though. And I'd prefer the more reliable option if I can only have one.

 

[BigZac]

I tend to prefer power over accuracy in most cases...as Focus Blast is a shitty move and Rock Slide is way too weak compared to Stone Edge.

Funny thing is, Stone Edge rarely misses for me, whereas Focus Blast almost always misses.

70% accuracy my ass.

 

[Schpoonman]

It's often a waste to use both, though. And I'd prefer the more reliable option if I can only have one.

Maybe on a boosting sweeper you don't want to double up on coverage (like carrying Surf and Hydro Pump on CM Keldeo), but on a lot of Choiced Pokemon it's standard practice. Scarf Salamence carries both Dragon Claw and Outrage when you need to hit something with Dragon STAB but can't afford to lock yourself in. Keldeo uses Surf when Hydro Pump can't afford to miss and when she's sweeping a weakened team.