Typing shouldn't be changed if it's already dual-typed. As X-Act mentioned, there isn't much of a change between evolutions. Of course, in the case of something like Scyther to Scizor, replacing the Flying type with Steel is okay, but it makes sense neither competitively nor flavor if we change one or both types. Adding a type may be okay if we have a single typed Pokemon, but that is the farthest we should go, IMO.
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A short guide on how to create the Base Stats of a Pokemon Evolution
- Thread starter X-Act
- Start date
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Although this is true, we're trying to keep EVO as straightforward as possible. Thus, the no split EVOs, no move, no item, etc. This isn't meant to be a flavor oriented project. I'm not trying to change the topic here, but our goal to take a niche or concept from the lower tiers and make it viable in the metagame in EVO is clearly plausible in a regular CAP project. It's completely unecessary for us to have to do something through EVO if we're not going to limit ourselves on how much we change the Pokemon, hence this thread.
I am all for all of X-Act's suggestions, as 10 more BST is a general rule. Nintendo does things out of the ordinary all the time, but we're not Nintendo. Once again, we can't point out every detail because this is meant for competitive purposes only.
I am all for all of X-Act's suggestions, as 10 more BST is a general rule. Nintendo does things out of the ordinary all the time, but we're not Nintendo. Once again, we can't point out every detail because this is meant for competitive purposes only.
I agree with the process generally, but I just wanted to point out that trapinch has a higher base attack than vibrava, and an equal one to flygon
Are you sure it should be 555 for maximum base stats? 540 seems more right. Arcanine and Togekiss are strange exceptions, and shouldn't become the standard. Both pokemon seem to be pseudo-legendary (in the same way as the other 600 BST pseudo legendaries), and as you all know, Arcanine is a legendary in many ways not relating to the gameplay of the series. They also seem like odd oversights with their BSTs, given that so many pokemon are 540.
Edit: Sorry, I didn't read anything other than the first post. Still, that's my 2 cents. I really don't want to see a lot of 555s (having 2 CAPs like that is bad enough as is), and Arcanine should remain unique there IMO, if only because he seems to be a legendary to me.
Edit: Sorry, I didn't read anything other than the first post. Still, that's my 2 cents. I really don't want to see a lot of 555s (having 2 CAPs like that is bad enough as is), and Arcanine should remain unique there IMO, if only because he seems to be a legendary to me.
What about the Normal in Normal/Flying?
He may Seem to be a legendary to you but is sadly outclassed by OU Fire types demonstrating that BST means alot less than other factors such as movepool/typing/ability. Conversely, I would posit that Togekiss is not OU because of BST but rather a brilliant Ability with the moves to back it up (Air Slash).
Using 555 as a max BST makes more sense to me since if we choose something with a bad defensive typing or small movepool, we may need the extra few base stat points. Obviously it won't be the norm to choose the maximum BST.
While Arcanine is outclassed in the game, he still appears to be legendary to me (in a similar way that Moltres, Articuno and Entei are legendary, even though they are all BL/UU)
From Bulbapedia (I don't know if smogon trusts it or not)
"Because of its high stats, its species, and the fact that it was illustrated in an ancient slab along with the legendary birds in the second episode, it could be theorised that Arcanine was originally planned to be part of the legendary trio in first generation games; possibly even the ' trio master."
While there's a circular reference there, game freak's intentions seem obvious to me.
Edit: I guess it's ok if used very sparingly or if it really fits the pokemon. So let's get back to the topic.
From Bulbapedia (I don't know if smogon trusts it or not)
"Because of its high stats, its species, and the fact that it was illustrated in an ancient slab along with the legendary birds in the second episode, it could be theorised that Arcanine was originally planned to be part of the legendary trio in first generation games; possibly even the ' trio master."
While there's a circular reference there, game freak's intentions seem obvious to me.
Edit: I guess it's ok if used very sparingly or if it really fits the pokemon. So let's get back to the topic.
Gamefreaks intentions were for us to play the game like good little cash cows and buy all their merchandise. Nowhere did they ever say what else they wanted along the lines of Competitive Pokemon. That said, we can do whatever we want within reason.
I think w eshould stick to the 545 cap. Arcanine just seems to be an odd exception, as it is the "legendary" pokemon, and 400+ more pokes seems to outweigh increasing it to 555 for one pokemon
I'd really rather stay with 555 cap. We've had CAPs with such a total without problems and there's an evolution that has such a BST (Arcanine). Thus, I see no reason to limit EVO more than CAP in that sense. It doesn't seem to be an actually needed limitation, and will just limit potential stat spreads.
Also, 545 is just as much of an excpetion, with only Togekiss having it. The highest stat total consistently getting Pokemon at it is 540.
Also, 545 is just as much of an excpetion, with only Togekiss having it. The highest stat total consistently getting Pokemon at it is 540.
Here's an idea: All these examples seem to follow a very basic law of human nature. "Common Sense."
If you're evolving a Pokemon that has a shell, and he loses the shell, for whatever reason, naturally his stats will reflect that. There's no pattern, theme, or rules beyond that.
If you're evolving a Pokemon that has a shell, and he loses the shell, for whatever reason, naturally his stats will reflect that. There's no pattern, theme, or rules beyond that.
This is not a flavor project, don't confuse it with a flavor project, don't expect it to become a flavor project because it never will be. This is purely competitive, and if you had any of this "Common Sense" that you mention, you would understand that we don't care about the damn shell.
If there are no patterns, themes, or rules beyond that, you're mistaken. Read the first post of the thread. kthanxbye.
Still, if a pokemon we want to evolve (for ability, type or a wide variety of reasons) would be suited to losing some defenses in favour of sweeper stats, we shouldn't rule it out, for the same reason that we have permitted speed drops across evolutions.
I'm kinda new to the whole CAP thing, but what would you do if you wanted to evolve a pokemon with all the same BS? Like Castform (70/70/70/70/70/70)?
Anything you want within reason I assume.
most likely thing would probably be to make it 92/92/92/92/92/92. which is in no way bad, but i would prefer to make it a bulky attacker or mixed sweeper since weather benefits tend to be offensive
Some Pokemon do lose another stat other than Speed when they evolve:
Shelgon -> Salamence, Defense -20.
Metapod -> Buttefree, Defense -5.
Kakuna -> Beedrill, Defense -10.
Silcoon -> Beautifly, Defense -5.
Trapinch -> Vibrava, Attack -30.
Of course, all of these have distinct features, such as an evolved Pokemon coming out of a shell, loses defense but gains other stats, or loses a distinct form of offense, such as Trapinch's huge mouth doesn't get passed to Vibrava.
Here's also a few more things that I think you should mention:
1) All of any new Eevee evolutions MUST be mono-type, and it MUST not already exist.
2) All of any new Eevee evolutoins MUST have one stat at 130, one stat at 110, one stat at 95, one stat at 60 and two stats at 65. All of the 7 existing Eeveelutions follow that rule. They also cannot be combined exactly the same way with any of the existing Eeveelutions.
3) Some Pokemon shouldn't be able to evolve, such as: Unown, Spiritomb, Rotom, Ditto, or any legendaries. That's just a few examples.
Again, those 3 are just suggestions.
Edit: Deleted suggestion four for partner rule, and deleted Lucario out of 3.
this was already discussed
yeah, we know, but i doubt that eevee will win EVO. so it matters little
lucario? how does that make sense? is there a new rule that says "if it has been in smash and has no current evo, it may not gain an evo"
wrong. otherwise pinsir would have evolved when scyther did.
Oh
Still matters if it does win. A professional project like this should cover everything possible.
Lucario already has a movie/legend. I highly doubt making this thing evolve would make much sense. So the movie hero now has a greater icon on top of it?
Pikachu is different because he's with Ash, in almost all episodes, has a dedicated item (Light Ball) and yeah...
And all other suggestions should make sense to you. I just see Lucario as part of the "legend" group even though it's not really a legendary... In some way you can even argue that whether if there's a legend behind a nonlegendary Pokemon, ironically.
wrong. otherwise pinsir would have evolved when scyther did.[/quote]
Pinsir's counterpart I really see is Heracross. I really don't see Scyther in any similarity with Pinsir. If you look at Plusle/Minun stats or Volbeat/Illumise stats, they're the same numbers only altered. Although Heracross doesn't even pull that off but that's the closest you can get. If you're relating that to Version Exclusives, then Sandshrew/Slowpoke are in the same boat?
As for Zangoose/Seviper, that's by legends in anime.
Well i could see plusle/Minum, Volbeat/Illumise, and Solrock/Lunatone rivalries are not really pairs. As stated pokes like pinser, although an argument could be made saying that heracross is pinsers partner. Overall this is a shaky rule and just over complicates things with people claiming certain pokes are partners or not, and forces two projects to be done at the same time.
Edit: I hate my slow internet and the fact it took five minutes to get my post up, still my points are valid.
Edit: I hate my slow internet and the fact it took five minutes to get my post up, still my points are valid.
Guys, the anime isn't important. Specific exclusions aren't important either. This is a general outline of how evolutions should work, and X-Act proves his point quite clearly. We as a community should not let flavor get ahead of us, so partners, "anime legends", and exceptions like Arcanine should not even be brought up.
Specially because Banette didn't evolve with Dusclops, so that partner rule is really just bullshit.
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