A comparison of animated film: Disney studios vs Ghibli studios

[DrRobotnik]

I only replied like that because I've spoken with him before and he never has any intention of not being a dick about his opinions, kind of exactly like you. Also, subjectivity, learn what it means and get off your high horse. Something that shows more than it tells isn't objectively better than anything else. I prefer more of a balance. Like what Rodan said, Ghibli often uses too much subtext for my tastes, and a lot of times the movie feels underdeveloped because they just show.

It's fine if you disagree but at least do it politely.

 

[TytsMagee]

I only replied like that because I've spoken with him before and he never has any intention of not being a dick about his opinions, kind of exactly like you. Also, subjectivity, learn what it means and get off your high horse. Something that shows more than it tells isn't objectively better than anything else. I prefer more of a balance. Like what Rodan said, Ghibli often uses too much subtext for my tastes, and a lot of times the movie feels underdeveloped because they just show.

It's fine if you disagree but at least do it politely.

It's weird how hypocritical you are given that the first insult that was slung in this thread was made by you:

Seriously, though, you guys are almost as bad as Gainaxfags.

Given that "telling" more than "showing" is considered to be a lesser writing technique, I'd say that giving Ghibli the edge in story-telling is just about the only objective argument that can be made.

 

[DrRobotnik]

It's weird how hypocritical you are given that the first insult that was slung in this thread was made by you

If you notice, all of that was after you started being a snooty asshole. My first post was just my opinion and you reacted it as if I said the dumbest thing in the world, if anything you're being the hypocrite. You're the cause of the problem and you're the solution, I'll treat you as well as you treat me and right now the insults are warranted.

As for my comment about you guys being almost as bad as Gainaxfags, you're certainly acting like it. Look at the people siding with Disney and look at you guys, notice how the Disney people are generally more polite and civil while you guys are going after people you disagree with and acting like your opinions are law.

Given that "telling" more than "showing" is considered to be a lesser writing technique, I'd say that giving Ghibli the edge in story-telling is just about the only objective argument that can be made.

Argumentum ad populum. Even if it wasn't a fallacy it's still just opinions, something is not objective unless it's constant.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I can't believe you guys are acting like such shitheads in a thread about something so trivial.

Seriously, talk about your opinions regarding Disney and Ghibli animated films-- how do you shit this subject up?

 

[DrRobotnik]

It's pretty simple, one side refuses to think that their opinions are opinions and shits on others for disagreeing, then one person decides to make it personal.

 

[TytsMagee]

If you notice, all of that was after you started being a snooty asshole. My first post was just my opinion and you reacted it as if I said the dumbest thing in the world, if anything you're being the hypocrite. You're the cause of the problem and you're the solution, I'll treat you as well as you treat me and right now the insults are warranted.

As for my comment about you guys being almost as bad as Gainaxfags, you're certainly acting like it. Look at the people siding with Disney and look at you guys, notice how the Disney people are generally more polite and civil while you guys are going after people you disagree with and acting like your opinions are law.

Argumentum ad populum. Even if it wasn't a fallacy it's still just opinions, something is not objective unless it's constant.

You seem to like argumentation theory. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the following concept which you have continuously deployed while no one else in this thread has: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I have provided facts. Disney takes existing stories for their movies, and uses "telling" rather than "showing". These are not traits that give Disney an edge over Studio Ghibli. The people in this thread that are arguing Ghibli>Disney have much better arguments.

/thread

 

[DrRobotnik]

You seem to like argumentation theory. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the following concept which you have continuously deployed while no one else in this thread has: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

You don't know what that means. An ad hominem is making a point about something by attacking the other person instead of their argument, I'm just calling you out on things that you have done. Nothing I have said regarding you had anything to do with my pro-Disney stance. I think the problem here is that you think I'm trying to argue when I'm really just trying to tell you to stop being a douchebag. inb4 "well your a hypocrite because you're not being nice to me" even though I've told you at least twice that I'm doing that as a direct response to your actions.

Also I hate arguing, I came in here just to see people's opinions but then people like you turned this into "my opinion is better than yours".

I have provided facts. Disney takes existing stories for their movies, and uses "telling" rather than "showing".

Yes, those are facts. However, them making Ghibli better than Disney is an opinion.

hese are not traits that give Disney an edge over Studio Ghibli. The people in this thread that are arguing Ghibli>Disney have much better arguments.

Not really, you guys are just trying to make your opinions look like facts while the Disney supporters just want to state their opinions. And even if they were arguing, your side wouldn't be objectively right just because you had better arguments, that's the bad reasons fallacy.

/thread

Oh man, you showed me. Your most recent post has clearly been the best and most informative of this thread, even though all you've done is repeat your previous statements again while incorrectly accusing me of something. I wish I saw that before I posted, I was unaware that you have closed the thread with your awesome intellect.

 

[Hugendugen]

You're both embarrassing yourselves, please stop.

Due to the nature of art, it's impossible to argue that one is objectively 'better' than the other. Personally I prefer Ghibli, since I enjoy their more intellectual presentation and mature themes, but I recognise that this is also in large part due to their respective target audiences. While The Lion King made me cry as a 5 year old, Grave of the Fireflies made me cry only a few months ago :P

 

[DrRobotnik]

Due to the nature of art, it's impossible to argue that one is objectively 'better' than the other.

My point exactly.

Although, I must ask; was anyone else bothered too much by the actions of the protagonist to cry for the girl at the end? I know the author was intentionally trying to make you hate him, but it still softened the emotional impact for me because all of it was spent being angry/annoyed at him.

 

[Cartoons!]

Man, I want to watch some movies now!

The most memorable Ghibli films for me are generally the more down to earth ones like, Grave of the Fireflies, Only Yesterday, including 'low fantasy' ones, like Porco Rosso. The sense of awe, and mystique I got from those movies actually exceeded the more extravagantly fanciful ones like Howl or Ponyo, though I really liked those too.

I think a distinction you could make between Ghibli and Disney films is that when I'm watching a Ghibli, I feel like I'm watching a slice of someone's actual life. People acting like people would if they worked on a sky pirate ship or renaissance steampunk village or whatever. Believable, often graceless, humanity oozes out of Ghibli scenes. They tend to linger on details and you get a sense of appreciating beauty for beauty's sake. With Disney, it often feels more like watching theater. The characters' actions and moods are affected and obvious. No scene is wasted as everything shown establishes a plot point (the more recent ones anyway). It makes for enjoyable viewing in a very classical entertainment sense, even if it is formulaic.

I could make an argument that Ghibli is 'better', but I can't argue with the fun I've had with the best of Disney and how I'm still drawn back to its classics to this day.

Ghibli is more haunting though.

 

[vonFiedler]

I think at the end of the day I kind of have to convince myself that 90s Disney was better than Pixar, I mean Mulan is one of my favorite movies but then Up was so amazing. Disney movies are just pretty fun, but they have many pointed out flaws, but then they are also musicals, but then there are also better movie musicals out there...

But then certain Miyazaki movies are just beyond reproach. Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle. I could point out some flaws in Ponyo or Nausicaa but they aren't the kind of systematic flaws you get when you are a large corporation trying to sell to children.

 

[TheValkyries]

Please, let's have more discussion about comparing things. I want to compare Ocean's Eleven with Reservoir Dogs. I mean they're both heist movies, so wondering which is better or which you prefer should be way easy. This will be A TOTALLY FUCKING GREAT IDEA.

If anyone is having difficulty recognizing that Disney and Ghibli animation is so vastly different that they're completely incomparable then that person needs to refine the way they look at films.

If you want to write an essay about the two studios, then write it about how people can't get past the fact that it's an "animation" to recognize the extremely different stylistic approaches taken by the two studios.

 

[vonFiedler]

If you believe that they have extremely different stylistic approaches, then you have already compared and contrasted them yourself. That's how you discover the differences between things, by comparing them, which is why a school might require someone to write a paper to that effect. Your argument is not uncommon on the internet, but it's spineless. It's the kind of thinking that leads to inarticulate or uninformed opinions.

 

[DrRobotnik]

So much Ghibli-wanking in this topic.

 

[TheValkyries]

If you believe that they have extremely different stylistic approaches, then you have already compared and contrasted them yourself. That's how you discover the differences between things, by comparing them, which is why a school might require someone to write a paper to that effect. Your argument is not uncommon on the internet, but it's spineless. It's the kind of thinking that leads to inarticulate or uninformed opinions.

Certainly I've compared them in that I've actually contrasted them, which, fun fact, aren't the same thing at all. And my argument is spineless? Hypothetical for you:

Which is better: The Weight-Lifter or the Sprinter?

When you can answer that question with absolute certainty, you can tell me how uninformed my opinions are, and how my argument is spineless.

If you want to have a completely narrow minded view of the entertainment world, then by all means, please tell me about how objectively better Ghibli is. In the meantime, let's please ignore the obnoxious amounts of success Disney has had, both financially and in popularity, because that's not a factor in this discussion at all. Clearly everything is comparable on this scale, and there are no other merits worth considering, like genre, intended audience, etc.

 

[DrRobotnik]

Lifters are objectively better because lifting is deep and mature, running's for kids.

 

[vonFiedler]

Certainly I've compared them in that I've actually contrasted them, which, fun fact, aren't the same thing at all.

That's not a fun fact because it's not a fact at all.

Merriam-Webster on comparing and contrasting
Dctionary.com on comparing and contrasting
Free Dictionary on comparing and contrasting

You can't contrast something without comparing it, and unless two things are exactly identical you contrast by omission when comparing. What you are doing right now is taking for granted one of the core mechanisms for logical thinking, something that the OP explicitly asked for in their first post.

And my argument is spineless? Hypothetical for you:

Which is better: The Weight-Lifter or the Sprinter?

"Which is better" is neither in any definition of comparison nor is it in the OP's initial post. It seems like you just want to avoid other people's opinions when they don't match yours. Of course you can compare weight-lifting and sprinting, and of course some people are going to use said comparison to come up with a preference (also I'm no expert but just in case you were unaware Weight-Lifting vs. Running is kind of a big deal, so obv a lot of experts actually think they merit comparison). Not understanding how or why we come up with these preferences is what leads people to make statements like "those are too different to compare" or "what about all the money that is made".

I've touched on why I like both studios, if you like Disney why don't you actually do the same thing like Cartoons and I.

 

[TheValkyries]

Comparing and Contrasting are inverse actions... They are literally opposite things. Sure, you can say "But you're just comparing to find differences" which is like saying "Subtracting is adding negatively" which is technically correct but a poor substitute for actually understa- WHY THE FUCK AM I TALKING ABOUT THIS WHO HONESTLY CARES ABOUT THESE SEMANTICS

The point I was making was that there are those in this thread who are trying to compare two different studios on a scale that is not specific enough to produce any relevant discussion. "What's better?" was to make you think "Better at what?". Disney is a powerful entertainment mogul who has been wildly popular wordlwide. Artistically, Ghibli has on the whole made objectively better films. The former tells very simplistic/basic stories with the movies being intentionally aimed at entertaining children (whilst still being adult-friendly). The latter makes films that are "kid friendly" but not necessarily aimed at children, or anyone really. The former has very little social commentary, the latter has quite a lot.

Again, there is no real place where they're similar enough to begin to actually compare the two studios. The only real similarity they have is "They make animated films".

Also, I'm getting this vibe that you think I'm defending Disney, and that I think they're better. I kind of am defending them, only because of the extreme Ghibli circle-jerk going on in here, but I actually like both studios. Hell, I even prefer Studio Ghibli. But I also recognize I like them for entirely different reasons. And further I recognize that trying to compare the two artistically won't glean any useful information to anyone, nor does it mean anything once you have.

To be clear: The logical fallacy you insinuated I had been using, wasn't actually there, because I wasn't implying one was better than the other. I was using the premise of Disney's commercial success as a counter-argument to the implication that Ghibli was better simply because their films are objectively better.

 

[forestflamerunner]

I think it is silly to say that either one of these studios is better than the other because, as some have mentioned, they appeal to different audiences and are presented in different ways. I am not going to say disney is better than ghibli in my paper, or vice versa, as that would be a ridiculous statement. However, they do have certain things in common alongside their differences, and that was what i was hoping to explore with this thread.

After watching several ghibli and disney films (i've had a fun week) i've noticed that both studios have a sort of moral message, but differ in how they try to deliver it. Disney tends to target a younger audience, and as such tries to reduce moral ambiguity in their works. Disney movies, for the most part, say "here is the good guy, and this is why he's good" and "here is the bad guy, and this is why he's bad". Most kids aren't able to fully understand the concept of pros and cons when it comes to decision making, so Disney simplifies the argument and provides an answer for the younger viewers. As an adult, I enjoy Disney movies mostly for the nostalgia and I can recognize basic lessons Disney has taught me that have shaped my life, but Disney movies oversimplify complicated issues, which sometimes irks me. I noticed this especially while watching Disney movies that i had not seen as a kid, probably because I had no nostalgia as a sugar coating.

Ghibli Studio films tend to paint a fuller picture and provide all viewpoints in a moral debate. The best example of this is almost certainly Princess Mononoke. While the closest Disney counterpart (Pochahontis) all but said industrialization is bad, Mononoke showcased the benifits of the machine and presented the reasoning behind industrialization. It contrasted this however with the harmful effects overconsumption has on nature, and leaves the viewer in a sort of moral dilemna. Ghibli films, in my opinion, are better suited for adult audiences as apposed to disney films as they tend to represent real world problems more realistically than Disney will. That being said, I could never stay awake through a Miyazaki film as a child, as i always found them slow and boring. They have definitely grown on me with age, but my childhood was definitely defined by disney.

 

[M. Rock]

Ghibli Studio films tend to paint a fuller picture and provide all viewpoints in a moral debate. The best example of this is almost certainly Princess Mononoke. While the closest Disney counterpart (Pochahontis) all but said industrialization is bad, Mononoke showcased the benifits of the machine and presented the reasoning behind industrialization. It contrasted this however with the harmful effects overconsumption has on nature, and leaves the viewer in a sort of moral dilemna. Ghibli films, in my opinion, are better suited for adult audiences as apposed to disney films as they tend to represent real world problems more realistically than Disney will. That being said, I could never stay awake through a Miyazaki film as a child, as i always found them slow and boring. They have definitely grown on me with age, but my childhood was definitely defined by disney.

Probably the most intelligent paragraph ITT. The whole post is true: Disney keeps a simplistic formula because they know their audience (little kids) well. Yet the films still have enough layers to be fun for all ages.
And the same thing happened to me as a kid, too: I fell asleep during Spirited Away and Totoro because I thought they were slow and boring. The last sentence sums things up perfectly.
I think you got this paper all wrapped up.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I LOVED Totoro as a kid. I was about to make a snide comment about never being bored by a Ghibli film when I remembered as a kid I DID find Kiki's Delivery Service to be incredibly slow and boring.

Kiki's Delivery Service and Tale From Earthsea were the only films from Ghibli I ever found boring (the later being directed by Miyazaki's son).

BTW-- is it ironic that I don't think I could sit through one of those old Disney movies anymore, but I will go see a Pokemon movie on the big screen if I'm in Japan while it's airing?

 

[vonFiedler]

But I also recognize I like them for entirely different reasons.

And if I was a first grade teacher asking you to explain those different reasons, what would I ask you to do?

Comparing and Contrasting are inverse actions... They are literally opposite things.

In this context, the context explicitly stated in the OP, they literally, not fake literally but seriously look up the definitions literally, cannot even be defined without each other. Your brain cannot compare or contrast without doing both. Pick two random objects in your room and try it yourself. This is a part of pattern recognition, which makes it one of the most rudimentary elements to human intelligence. This isn't semantics; it's just damn weird to say you can't compare things.

Comparing two pieces or collections of art is academic, literally in this case. It helps us refine our tastes, it helps us to be critical of art, it helps us artists learn and refine our methods for making art. What point was there in complaining about all this in the first place, even if it was a little circle-jerky? Comparison is a wonderful tool.


If you need anything more from us OP, I'd boil down the differences between 90s Disney and Miyazaki films for me as this; I feel a real personal connection to the content in a few of the Disney movies (esp. Mulan), a real life connection I don't have with the Miyazaki films. On the other hand, Miyazaki movies are films I feel I can always learn new things by watching, and for ~2 hour pieces of art that's pretty great.

 

[Alice]

Just for the record, the lion king was based on an anime called "kimba the white lion" by ozamu tezuka LOL

 

[TheValkyries]

vonFiedler showing a strong understanding that whilst everything is technically comparable, that actually comparing any two things doesn't necessarily give you any useful information.

Please list the differences and similarities between an Oak Tree and a Mazda RX-7 FC.

Studio Ghibli and Disney are so different that comparing them doesn't tell you anything new about their work that you couldn't tell by only watching them on their own.

Also @ the cute "fake literally" comment: I used it correctly. You're 0-2.

 

[forestflamerunner]

Studio Ghibli and Disney are so different that comparing them doesn't tell you anything new about their work that you couldn't tell by only watching them on their own.

While this may be true, I still have to write a paper comparing and contrasting these two studios, as fruitless as some might think that to be. I'd appreciate any help the community can give me on this endeavor.