3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread

[dw0914]

~Espeon~

I've been running a Timid Light Clay screener with 252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 SpA. I forewent any healing and instead run both screens, Psychic, and Dazzling Gleam. It has been effective so far, and one upside is that even with no SpA investment, it's guaranteed to OHKO Gengar and almost guaranteed to OHKO Mega Gengar (with no defensive investments, on the turn that it Mega evolves since you can outspeed it) with Psychic. The downside is that if the opposing Gengar is Timid 252 Speed as well, you run a 50/50 chance of being outsped. Fortunately if it's not Mega Gengar, you will always survive 1 Shadow Ball (or 2 with Light Screen)... but if it's already mega evolved, then you're out of luck because it will outspeed and OHKO you.

A Bold Espeon might allow you to take an extra hit or two, but I like being able to outspeed and screen or threaten the opponent rather than being a wall. Then again, I don't run Morning Sun, so if you are going for a bulkier attacking variant, Bold might work.

Do the effects from using poke-amie or whatever its called apply to battle spot battles too?

They do not.


As an aside, some of the sets I've seen on Battle Spot have been really depressing lately. I spent 30 minutes in a battle last night against a Roosting Leftovers Zapdos, Leech Seed Rocky Helmet Chesnaught, and Softboiled Blissey last night because I was playing with my B lineup and didn't bring a Taunter or setup mon who could survive the setup process without having to switch. Neither of us lost a single mon (as I didn't have any that could safely OHKO his mons without him switching) and the whole thing was an annoying switch/heal-fest. This was several battles after I lost 2 of my mons to an incredibly bulky Snorlax spamming Rest and Fissure despite the fact that his other two (dead) mons got outplayed and dispatched early. Fortunately I won all of my other battles last night, but despite the winning record I actually felt like I'd wasted my evening. I suppose this is what happens when I play my B lineup which contains no Minimize users and no great Taunters. I hate having to "rely" on that kind of stuff, but frankly that's what wins games in the increasingly gimmicky Battle Spot meta, I guess.

One highlight of the evening was surprising an enemy Garchomp who mistook my Moltres (like I said, it's a B lineup!) for Swords Dance bait... Choice Specs HP Ice put a quick end to that.

 

[dw0914]

Sorry to double post, but I promise it's different content than the previous!

Speaking of "if you get annoyed by 'em, join 'em", what about a team centered around RestTalk OHKO Walrein? E.g.:

Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / mix of Def+SpD
Bold Nature (in this meta, I'd probably want +Def)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Sheer Cold
- Fissure

Aside from the obvious counters of Sturdy and Focus Sash, the main threat I see is being used as setup bait for the likes of M-Kanga, Dragon/Swords Dancing dragons, and whatnot.

Assuming those types last long enough to avoid the OHKO... I'd pair it with a Focus Sash Weavile that knows Counter that could "revenge Counter", or maybe a Mirror Coat user, but special setups don't seem as common in the current meta.

Would it be worthwhile to run something with Mold Breaker instead, like Excadrill with Horn Drill + Fissure? Mold Breaker would break through Sturdy users (but not Focus Sash) and ignore Levitate with Fissure, but Excadrill would probably die more easily than Walrein. Just kicking the idea around for my alternate cartridge... I play my main one seriously in rated battles, but then I use my alternate cartridge to abuse all the nonsense sets I see floating around :P of course, I could just run a Snorlax ChestoRest set with Smack Down + Fissure, which is what ended up screwing me over last night, too.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Sorry to double post, but I promise it's different content than the previous!

Speaking of "if you get annoyed by 'em, join 'em", what about a team centered around RestTalk OHKO Walrein? E.g.:

Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / mix of Def+SpD
Bold Nature (in this meta, I'd probably want +Def)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Sheer Cold
- Fissure

Aside from the obvious counters of Sturdy and Focus Sash, the main threat I see is being used as setup bait for the likes of M-Kanga, Dragon/Swords Dancing dragons, and whatnot.

Assuming those types last long enough to avoid the OHKO... I'd pair it with a Focus Sash Weavile that knows Counter that could "revenge Counter", or maybe a Mirror Coat user, but special setups don't seem as common in the current meta.

Would it be worthwhile to run something with Mold Breaker instead, like Excadrill with Horn Drill + Fissure? Mold Breaker would break through Sturdy users (but not Focus Sash) and ignore Levitate with Fissure, but Excadrill would probably die more easily than Walrein. Just kicking the idea around for my alternate cartridge... I play my main one seriously in rated battles, but then I use my alternate cartridge to abuse all the nonsense sets I see floating around :P of course, I could just run a Snorlax ChestoRest set with Smack Down + Fissure, which is what ended up screwing me over last night, too.

I played one awhile ago, except it carried
-Rest
-Stockpile
-Sheer Cold
-Roar

Walrein is pretty bulky with +3 Stockpile under it's belt and the Roar prevented me from boosting or keeping subs in play. Honestly though, it is only useful for pp stalling your opponent once you run out of Sheer cold without a second OHKO move available.

 

[farranpoison]

It's really disgusting how sometimes people have to resort to cheap tactics to win on the BS. Like even I, who had tried to not use Mega Mom for the longest time, put it on my team finally and it's terrible just how much better my battles have become. Bleh.

Well, there are still some stuff I can proudly use because not many other people are. Like Gastrodon. I might actually try out Hippowdon later on too, see how well it works. And gotta try out Quagsire too...

Mega Lucario is still one of the worst mons to face though, imo. At least Mega Kanga is somewhat predictable. With Lucario, you never know which set it is, and if you predict wrong it will sweep your whole team.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Do the effects from using poke-amie or whatever its called apply to battle spot battles too? Had a couple battles last night using my swagger klefki where the opponents poke was not confused for more than one turn (clefable and two venusaurs) which was quite annoying. Maxing out a pokemons friendliness makes it more likely to snap out of confusion, according to serebii. If so I better start stroking my pokemons :o.

Nah, Pokemon-Amie has been confirmed to not work over Wi-Fi. Your opponent probably just had some really hard-boiled anti-hax justice. It often happens when you use a Klefki, to be fair. Lol but yeah Pokemon-Amie's benefits don't work on Wi-Fi, that's the main thing

 

[DontStealMyPenguin]

Take a shedinja along (never actually use it) just so the opponent sees it in the team preview.

 

[thatdudejono]

Hello, I've been lurking around in the forums for a while and decided to post here asking for guidance. I've just started ranked battles and read through this thread for tips.

I'm currently using a team consisting of Weavile/Rotom-W/Talonflame/Goodra/Espeon/Lucario but since I'm not that good, I've been sitting in mid 1500's. Broke through 1600 yesterday then had a horrible day today. I just wanted to ask:

- How to deal with Charizard? Seems like it's so crucial to predict which Mega it's going to be. From experience, it's usually Y but I got screwed over so many times when it was X instead

- How hard is it to break into and consistently be in the 1600's?

- Do you guys find that you get matched up with Japanese players most of the time? Maybe it's because of my region (I'm from Australia), but like, nowadays 9/10 players I encounter on BS are Japanese. I don't really know what their meta is like, and they run very unpredictable sets which makes countering them hard.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DontStealMyPenguin]

depends what time you log on. I'm hardly ever finding asian people

 

[dw0914]

depends what time you log on. I'm hardly ever finding asian people

What time is that (and what rating are you), if I may ask? In the evenings Eastern time (US), the vast majority of my opponents are Japanese, and they're also more likely to make me run my A lineup (of annoying, mechanically abusive mons) than my B lineup (of underused but fun goodstuffs mons)... since they run nothing but gimmicky sets themselves... which, as I said earlier, makes for a depressing evening of Battle Spot even if I win most of my battles.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Hello, I've been lurking around in the forums for a while and decided to post here asking for guidance. I've just started ranked battles and read through this thread for tips.

I'm currently using a team consisting of Weavile/Rotom-W/Talonflame/Goodra/Espeon/Lucario but since I'm not that good, I've been sitting in mid 1500's. Broke through 1600 yesterday then had a horrible day today. I just wanted to ask:

- How to deal with Charizard? Seems like it's so crucial to predict which Mega it's going to be. From experience, it's usually Y but I got screwed over so many times when it was X instead

- How hard is it to break into and consistently be in the 1600's?

- Do you guys find that you get matched up with Japanese players most of the time? Maybe it's because of my region (I'm from Australia), but like, nowadays 9/10 players I encounter on BS are Japanese. I don't really know what their meta is like, and they run very unpredictable sets which makes countering them hard.

Thanks in advance.

Rotom-H has always been saving my behind with Charizard Y since it walls it flat, but Charizard X I often need to rely on Azumarill. If all else fails you could try a sash user of some sort, I got away with using Sash Breloom to beat either one with Rock Tomb, though that one's a bit situational. And yeah I face a lot of Japanese users too though I get a good amount of people from other regions too. I'd say like 6/10 players I see are Japanese, the other 4/10 being "other". I usually play during afternoons or evenings during US time

 

[Phil274]

Hello, I've been lurking around in the forums for a while and decided to post here asking for guidance. I've just started ranked battles and read through this thread for tips.

I'm currently using a team consisting of Weavile/Rotom-W/Talonflame/Goodra/Espeon/Lucario but since I'm not that good, I've been sitting in mid 1500's. Broke through 1600 yesterday then had a horrible day today. I just wanted to ask:

- How to deal with Charizard? Seems like it's so crucial to predict which Mega it's going to be. From experience, it's usually Y but I got screwed over so many times when it was X instead

- How hard is it to break into and consistently be in the 1600's?

- Do you guys find that you get matched up with Japanese players most of the time? Maybe it's because of my region (I'm from Australia), but like, nowadays 9/10 players I encounter on BS are Japanese. I don't really know what their meta is like, and they run very unpredictable sets which makes countering them hard.

Thanks in advance.

I'm an Aussie too and predominantly face Japanese players when playing in the evenings. They definitely throw me off with some of their unpredictable sets, I've lost dragons unexpectedly to ice beam Mega Kangaskhan (which I've seen more than once now) and lost my scissor to fire blast Gyarados before :-/

I've been playing Pokemon since red and blue but this is the first time I've played competitively so the biggest thing that got me out of the 1500s was simply practice, tweaking my team and learning what other people were running and how to beat it. You just need to keep shuffling your team and playing matches till you find what works for you. I was stuck bouncing between about 1550 and 1600 for a long time while learning and changing my team, but I'm pretty happy with my current lineup and sitting at 1777. My current team consists of Rotom-W, Garchomp, Mega Scizor, Talonflame, Breloom and Slowbro. Slowbro is a new addition, my 6th spot has been cycled a lot lately, I had Mega Kangaskhan in his place for my run from 1680-1777 but found my self rarely using him because Mega Scizor is my mon of the match so often, I'll see how it goes.

I haven't really found countering Charizard to be an issue honestly. I rarely see it now but when I do I often end up taking it out with either Rock Tomb from Focus Sash Breloom or Brave Bird from Talonflame, both OHKO any mega Y I've faced. I haven't seen X in ages so I can't think of how I've handled him in the past but it's never been something that gave me a lot of trouble.

 

[Guilan]

Fire blast Gyarados is certainly rare, but I've seen plenty of it in the past. Specs Gyarados can tear through teams due to surprise factor and his defensive typing.

 

[thatdudejono]

Thank you all for the advice. I guess I'm just frustrated over losing to the most ridiculous sets (Future Sight Mega Gardevoir, anyone?) but it's also a result of my lack of experience and horrible plays. More battling should do the trick, I reckon.

Speaking of ridiculous sets, I've been running this Reuniclus set which was made to deal with Ghost types. It had surprise value, but that's pretty much only the thing it had going for it haha:

Reuniclus @ Kasib Berry
Ability: Magic Guard
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Moveset:
-Focus Blast
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Recover

It survives a Shadow Ball from full investment Quiet Aegislash, then OHKO's back with its own Shadow Ball (Aegislash outspeeds even with a -Spe Nature, so the Shadow Ball always hits Blade Forme). I don't think it OHKO's any other relevant Ghost types (haven't done calcs other than for Aegislash, but Chandelure survived a Shadow Ball with around 55% health during a match that I had), so it was gimmicky at best.

 

[dw0914]

ice beam Mega Kangaskhan (which I've seen more than once now) and lost my scissor to fire blast Gyarados before :-/

Heh, for my alternate cartridge, I'm collecting unusual ideas like this - off-stat attackers like Special M-Kanga, Special Gyara, Special Machamp, and so forth... it won't climb the ratings easily, but if anyone has any other decent surprise sets (especially for mons that are normally Special but have usable Attack and decent physical move coverage)... feel free to add them.

 

[Littha]

Heh, for my alternate cartridge, I'm collecting unusual ideas like this - off-stat attackers like Special M-Kanga, Special Gyara, Special Machamp, and so forth... it won't climb the ratings easily, but if anyone has any other decent surprise sets (especially for mons that are normally Special but have usable Attack and decent physical move coverage)... feel free to add them.

When pokebank opens: Technician Persian with Icy wind/Swift/Hidden Power(Ghost)/Nasty Plot is quite entertaining on the simulator at least. Its not bulky nor is it a physical attacker but it is certainly unusual.

And who knows, maybe it'll get a 30 point SpAtt boost (all the way up to an awesome base 95...) when it comes through pokebank.

 

[LiteSpecter]

Now that the BS ranking matches are up again, and I don't have to worry about Battle Analyzer with the recent patch, I've broke into the 1700 range with my new team of Noviern/Goodra/Scizor/Blaziken/Gastrodon/Rotom-W.

Running two Megas (Scizor/Blaziken) is actually quite useful, as I can pick and choose which one to use depending on the enemy team. Mega Kang? Blaziken. Lots of Fairies/Special attackers? Scizor (I run bulky SpD).

Gastrodon and Rotom-W are both friggin amazing, each countering certain threats. Gastrodon counters Rotom-W and has amazing utility in general, mauling Rock/Ground types and fishing for Burns with Scald. Water immunity is hilarious too. I don't think there was any BS team I made that didn't have Gastrodon in it, it's just too useful. Rotom-W counters Talonflame, and also threatens the likes of Gyarados or other physical Water/Flying types. Has a handy immunity to Ground to bypass all the Earthquakes thrown everywhere, and WoW is fun to troll enemy physical attackers with.

Goodra is an amazing special tank in general, and serves as a nice partner to Gastrodon, absorbing all Grass attacks with Sap Sipper. Noivern is a new addition to my team, replacing Talonflame. Frisk is great to scout items (for example, a Focus Sash on a Diggersby who I thought was Choiced) and runs Switcheroo to ruin enemy walls or setup sweepers/baton pass chains with Choice Specs.

As always, I have to have good prediction to win, but I feel that this team is the best I've run so far. I've had some problems with Choice Specs Hydreigon, though the one battle I lost to one, I could have won had I brought in Goodra or Noivern as a lead against it. I've also had some hilarious battles, where I wonder how these opponents got to the 1600 range in the first place. For example:

I have Gastrodon out, enemy has something threatened by it. He switches to Kangaskhan, eating a Scald on the switch-in, going to about 70%. No Burn, but I'm not worried. He MEvos, uses PUP, gets hit by Rocky Helmet twice. Gets hit by Scald, goes to about 7%. Gets burned and dies. Disconnects.

Lead Noivern vs lead Ferrothorn, it has Lum Berry (wut?). Enemy switches in Noivern on my Choice locked Noivern Flamethrower. I switch in Scizor, praying he doesn't have Flamethrower, and tanks a Draco Meteor to about 80%. Not wanting to risk a Flamethrower because I'm not sure if Choiced or not, I press Bullet Punch and instead am greeted with Ferrothorn again. I hit SD, seeing that I'm screwed if it has Thunder Wave and I don't want my Noivern to get hit by it (my other mon was Gastrodon). It instead Gyro Balls me for pitiful damage. I Roost, wondering it he'll switch, and instead Leech Seeds me. The next few turns alternate between me SDing and Roosting until +6 and it Gyro Balling or Power Whipping me for crap damage. I get to +6, opponent sends in Medicham. It MEvos, I Bullet Punch, OHKO. Ferrothorn is OHKOd by X-Scissor and Noivern is mauled by Bullet Punch. Never let my Scizor get to +6.

Opponent has Lead Venusaur, I have lead Noivern. It has Venusaurite, so I switch to Goodra to absorb a Sleep Powder or Leech Seed. Surprisingly, he switches to Rotom-W instead. I tank anything it throws at me, so I press Draco Meteor. Amazingly, it decides to Trick, taking my Assault Vest and giving me... Choice Specs. What. The same guy later on put in his MVenusaur against my Goodra, and Sleep Powdered, but lol Sap Sipper. Incredibly, he decides to Giga Drain and have it be negated once again while I maul it with Choice Specs Dragon Pulse. His last mon was Talonflame against my three mons, so he forfeited.

These were all matches in the 1600 range. What.

What do you do about Choice Scarf Garchomp locked into Outrage? It seems like your only safe switch in might be Scizor, but from what I can gather the opponent will likely nab a large advantage?

 

[Guilan]

I am running this with success. I climbed from 1670 to 1730+ on bspot singles using this:
Works as a pivot, average bulk, can attempt a sweep by using Agility.
Switches into Rotom-W and other water pokémons with relative ease, and set up on them. Discharge is awesome, the paralysis chance is kinda nice and often seals the match.

Ampharos @Ampharosite
Modest Nature 252 Satk / 252 speed / 6 hp
Static Nature

~discharge
~dragon pulse
~focus blast
~agility

 

[dw0914]

Seeking opinions regarding "Minimize passer" Drifblim @ (Sitrus Berry or Weakness Policy) (Bold 252 Def, 252 SpD, 4 Speed)... it will have Minimize, Baton Pass, and:

- Stockpile + Shadow Ball
- Substitute + Shadow Ball
- Stockpile + Substitute (and you're totally screwed if anyone slapped Taunt on one of the many mons who gets it... though it's not like Drifblim can threaten too many Taunt users with Shadow Ball or Acrobatics anyway I guess)

Pick one, please! :) I am also thinking 252 Def / 252 SpD is the way to go even if using Substitute since Driffy really needs those defenses patched up by EVs.

I also wanted to add my curiosity about how to switch into Choice Scarf Garchomp Outrage, if you lack a Fairy or ultra bulky Steel type (and let's face it, it's unrealistic to bring one of those every time your opponent has a Garchomp among their 6 mons).

 

[Phil274]

Rocky Helmet Slowbro can switch into Choice Scarf Garchomps Outrage, take 2 hits and KO with Ice Beam after the helmet damage.

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 69-82 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 156-188 (84.7 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

I've bred a 31/X/31/31/31/31 Drifblim on cart with 252 Def/252 SpD EVs and played around a little in free battles using minimise, substitute, stockpile, baton pass. When you manage to get off your minimises it's absolutely ridiculous, but a number of things managed to ruin my day. Lead DDnite or Swords dance garchomp can setup first turn and OHKO second, usually hitting through only 1 minimise. I haven't been game enough to try running it in any rated battles yet, although I'm considering getting a second cart to run silly stuff like that on...

 

[TheJJT]

I am running this with success. I climbed from 1670 to 1730+ on bspot singles using this:
Works as a pivot, average bulk, can attempt a sweep by using Agility.
Switches into Rotom-W and other water pokémons with relative ease, and set up on them. Discharge is awesome, the paralysis chance is kinda nice and often seals the match.

Ampharos @Ampharosite
Modest Nature 252 Satk / 252 speed / 6 hp
Static Nature

~discharge
~dragon pulse
~focus blast
~agility

I'd like to second this it's a great set. After using my 128 Def+ Sp.Def + 252 Sp.Atk Mamphy with a similar set + Power Gem over Agility with Dual Screen support with mixed success (as predicted the necessity of screen support made it difficult to use in 3v3) I built another Mamphy with this exact build and it worked really nicely, especially with AV-Drapion and Choice Band Gyarados as partners. Gyarados for the inevitable earthquakers and Drapion for the annoying Noiverns I've been encountering.

Agility is in my experience unexpected as well which generally gives you an advantage.

 

[Guilan]

AVdrapion makes an excellent counter to special/mixed aegislash.

 

[TheJJT]

AVdrapion makes an excellent counter to special/mixed aegislash.

AVdrapion is basically my answer to all ghosts and/or psychics. I love him along side my spec. Mlucario

 

[farranpoison]

AVdrapion makes an excellent counter to special/mixed aegislash.

AV Drapion is something I haven't considered. You have a suggested build?

 

[Ankiseth]

Hi, so today i broke in to the 1650-1700 mark with my mega lucario i love lucario and my favorite attack animation by far is close combat (looks awesome), i haven't seen this strat so im gonna share with u guys and hope u like it.

My reasoning is: Megalucario after a sword's dance kills anything in 1 or 2 hits with close combat (because of adaptability), even things that resist him, and usualy resilent pokemon won't do much against him anyways, mega lucario's base speed (112) outspeeds anything relevant (garchomp, megakhan) greeninja, noivern and megagengar outspeed luca of course but thats ok.

Azura Strike - Lucario@Lucarite
Jolly - Max Atk and Speed - Adaptability
Close Combat - (important! use max pp so you get 8)
Roar
Crunch/Night Slash
Sword's Dance

So i lead with Dual Screens Klefki
Loki - Klefki@Light Clay
Bold - Max Hp and Def
Reflect
Ligth Screen
Thunder wave
Foul Play

so go in, set screens, get a paralize or maybe a foul play to break a sash then die.
IF oponent may kill lucario i go to with garchomp if not go lucario swords dance take a hit = sweep, if lucario dies you still have garchomp and with clay screens in this format you'll probably still have both screens up anyways, swords dance on garchomp and sweep.

So, lucario can roar any buffed defensive pokemon, curse users, etc, i have mega kanga if i see posible taunt pokemon, have a dragonite@lum berry to sweep teams that lead with rottom W and four diferent attacks protean greeninja for coverage.

 

[dw0914]

Megalucario after a sword's dance kills anything in 1 or 2 hits with close combat (because of adaptability), even things that resist him, and usualy resilent pokemon won't do much against him anyways, mega lucario's base speed (112) outspeeds anything relevant (garchomp, megakhan) greeninja, noivern and megagengar outspeed luca of course but thats ok.

Azura Strike - Lucario@Lucarite
Jolly - Max Atk and Speed - Adaptability
Close Combat - (important! use max pp so you get 8)
Roar
Crunch/Night Slash
Sword's Dance

So i lead with Dual Screens Klefki
Loki - Klefki@Light Clay
Bold - Max Hp and Def
Reflect
Ligth Screen
Thunder wave
Foul Play

Just to warn you, standard Gliscor shuts down both members of this core. Even if you Roar him away, you're going to take heavy damage from an Earthquake before you do, never mind run the risk of burning several PP on Protect if you have to attack him. You have Greninja who can deal with Gliscor, but Greninja can fall quite easily with a missed prediction.