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[Hrothgar]

If the west could stay out of the middle east, none of these would've happened at all, further involvement isn't going to steady the sinking ship.

This is the silliest thing i hear come out of the anti-american camps, other than the usual blatant hypocrisy, of course. They've been trying to kill us long before western involvement and long before America even existed simply because we aren't an islamic state. That's why they've wanted to kill us for thousands of years. It has nothing to do with western interests, and I can't believe people are falling for their ridiculous propaganda. You should be ashamed of yourself defending psychotic murderers like that.

Honestly, if a muslim terrorist executed a British reporter on video and said "this is revenge for the english aggression during the Crusades", everyone would blame America.

 

[sxcdude]

is this just a huge argument about whos fault it is now?

far out its getting off topic...

self-indulgence through the roof and has subsequently spread ridiculous spending, horrible waste production and irresponsible financial management, all three of which contribute to a failing economy.

Instead of just automatically and mindlessly blaming our president, perhaps people should start looking inwards instead, because in reality, we're just as much at fault as he is.

you've pretty much answered the economic issue here, its NOT about terrorists

 

[Kamex]

Who is causing the war on terror? Fundamentalist Muslim terrorists.

And who is not causing the war on terror? Saddam Hussein. Again, Hussein and the war in Iraq have nothing to do with the war on terror.

What are the three characteristics that define most terrorists: They are Fundamentalist Muslim Males between the ages of 18-30.

Your version of reality fails again.

Never mind every damn reliable source worth their salt knows that Iran is backing and arming terrorist cells and insurgency in Iraq.

I ask you for proof, you give me the "everyone knows it's true" line of shit -- the same thing that got us into Iraq. I'm not impressed.

As to FEMA, what crisis was Clinton handling? The case of the White House Intern?

Had you read the article I linked to you, you would have found that FEMA under Clinton was praised for its responses to the flooding of the Mississippi River in 1993, and the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. It also didn't fail spectacularly either.

Ahmadinijad is still building a nuclear program

Is Iran going to nuke us to hell just like the Soviets did? Oh wait.

Muslims aren't always as triggerhappy as you would like them to be.

and still calls for pushing Isreal into the sea every single week.

No, he doesn't.

In fact, because of his economic failures, he's not all that popular in Iran right now.

You'll notice the only time he got booed at Columbia was on that homosexuals in Iran comment.

Apparently Columbia's president (Lee Bollinger) calling him a petty and cruel dictator counts for nothing.

I haven't seen the video of his appearance, so I don't know if that's true.

Yours is a simple-minded and incorrect answer but hey, why confuse you with the facts.

I don't know if you've noticed this yet, but I've been constantly giving you links to show you that your version of reality is completely insane.

You've either ignored me -- like when I asked you to refute my claims that too much inequality is wrong, or told you that the the war in Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror -- or you just continue to rage against the machine.

I keep giving you links and proof that you're wrong, you on the other hand think your rants are enough to prove me wrong.

So keep on raging. Don't ever let reality stand in your way, Deck Knight.

===

They've been trying to kill us long before western involvement and long before America even existed simply because we aren't an islamic state. That's why they've wanted to kill us for thousands of years.

Honestly, if a muslim terrorist executed a British reporter on video and said "this is revenge for the english aggression during the Crusades", everyone would blame America.

No they haven't. Back when islam was young, they did start a war, but it was one to spread the word of islam. When they were beaten back, they weren't all that involved with Europe, until the crusades.

People, especially hundreds of years ago, treat their religion with great zeal. You're ignoring the effect that the crusades had on them, and not just the crusades, but centuries of ignorance and lack of respect for beliefs that they hold so dear.

===

is this just a huge argument about whos fault it is now?

far out its getting off topic...

Sorry, but I've been reading about this stuff for years, and this was the first chance to show myself what I've learned.

And it was semi-on-topic, we were discussing the problems that lead to the weakening of our dollar :3

Google says the dollar is still falling to the Canadian dollar, it's worth only about 99 cents Canadian right now.

 

[sxcdude]

funny, that the war would be the cause of the weakened dollar

a few years back people were all pretentious in saying "yeah, you know this war is just to jumpstart the american economy because producing arms blah blah blah" then the would cite the militaristic economic reforms of nazi germany
and the ones listening in on this would say "ooh government spending, thats a good one!"

i dont know, i think we're giving too much credit to the war for everything thats happening in the economy...

 

[Hrothgar]

Back when islam was young, they did start a war, but it was one to spread the word of islam. When they were beaten back, they weren't all that involved with Europe, until the crusades.

People, especially hundreds of years ago, treat their religion with great zeal. You're ignoring the effect that the crusades had on them, and not just the crusades, but centuries of ignorance and lack of respect for beliefs that they hold so dear.

Nobody has any respect for their beliefs because they've been killing everyone all throughout their history. Western involvement with them has been entire due to them. Even the crusades started because they invaded Jerusalem. They first foray into history was when they invaded Persia and killed every single persian that refused to convert to Islam.

There is a simple lesson in life, and that is that people who kill innocent people lose all respect, value and rights to freedom. So go try to shake your friend Osama's hand, and when he beheads you for not being Muslim, you may have finally learned this lesson.

And if you're concerned about why people aren't listening to you, it's because you are standing up in support of pychotic, homicidal maniacs like Saddam Hussein and the rest of his terrorists friends, and downplaying the efforts of those trying to stop them from killing both mine and your loved ones. Theres only two kinds of people who talk like you, and they are either the completely insane, or children rebelling against their parents and/or society. Both parties should be ignored, and rightfully so.

Had you read the article I linked to you,

Lesson #2: When you link to articles containing extremely obvious liberal propaganda, everyone assumes you to to be a liberal extremist, which undermines your credibility further than your support for terrorists ever could.

 

[Kamex]

Nobody has any respect for their beliefs because they've been killing everyone all throughout their history.

I said learn about their beliefs. Hint: it's called knowing your enemy.

And if that's how you intend to judge things, we can have it your way. For example, Europeans historically persecuted and murdered jews, yet in muslim lands, jews (and religious freedom in general) were tolerated. It's only been recently, with Israel and similar involvement by the west that arabs hate jews. They also tolerated christians, who back then were attacking each other over the nature of Jesus.

Western involvement with them has been entire due to them. Even the crusades started because they invaded Jerusalem. They first foray into history was when they invaded Persia and killed every single persian that refused to convert to Islam.

Jerusalem was in muslim territory for over 400 years before the popes decided that they had to "free" it. Muslims were called a threat to Jerusalem, despite them considering it one of the holiest places in islam. Again, ignorance is bad.

Their first foray into history was the uniting of the Arabian peninsula.

And again, using your own standards, the United States began with colonies that were made from the genocide of the native americans and was expanded that way as well, therefore all Americans today are evil murderers.

There is a simple lesson in life, and that is that people who kill innocent people lose all respect, value and rights to freedom. So go try to shake your friend Osama's hand, and when he beheads you for not being Muslim, you may have finally learned this lesson.

I'm saying that not all muslims are murderers. Grow up.

And if you're concerned about why people aren't listening to you, it's because you are standing up in support of pychotic, homicidal maniacs like Saddam Hussein and the rest of his terrorists friends, and downplaying the efforts of those trying to stop them from killing both mine and your loved ones. Theres only two kinds of people who talk like you, and they are either the completely insane, or children rebelling against their parents and/or society. Both parties should be ignored, and rightfully so.

You have to be extremely twisted and ignorant if you actually think that advocating learning about islam and trying to understand the reasons that muslims hate the western world is insane and the same thing as supporting Saddam Hussein.

It's also pretty hard to miss the irony of you suggesting I'm "completely insane" for advocating learning and understanding.

And you seem to think that Saddam Hussein was a threat to America. I'll bet you've found the tons of wmds he was going to use to destroy us all.

Lesson #2: When you link to articles containing extremely obvious liberal propaganda, everyone assumes you to to be a liberal extremist,

The article supports its view with evidence of how FEMA worked under Bush and then Clinton, yet it's just "extremely obvious liberal propaganda" to you. That is a lot easier than actually trying to refute the idea that FEMA did work under Clinton, isn't it?

And even then, you're trying to single out this one of 19 links I posted to suggest I'm a liberal extremist. You've got an incredible case of tunnel vision.

For comparison purposes, Deck Knight posted just one link and a couple of charts early on, and went on to simply ignore what I suggested he read. If I'm a "liberal extremist" what does that make him?

which undermines your credibility further than your support for terrorists ever could.

I suggested you learn a little about islam, you tell me I support the terrorists. Absolutely classic.

That was what made me respond to your post, by the way.