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Resource SV Ubers Viability Rankings (Post DLC2)
- Thread starter Aberforth
- Start date
Truthfully I think this one got straight up forgotten in the VR update. Being a 100% fullstop to NDM in all circumstances is a huge niche to have, lays up spikes, an ekiller counter if it isn't Taunt Tera Ghost, can force a trade vs Koraidon clicking flare blitz as it takes 8 million in recoil, and also checks DD Arc-ground nicely aswell. Sure it has thud mus like Ho-oh, Miraidon etc but those are able to be worked around, and the defensive value Skarm brings to the table is outright excellent. Also soft checks Zacian-C, Caly-I (with tera water), and others. This mon is superb. Usually I wouldn't nominate a mon with this higher of a jump from UR, but this is a case where I genuinely think council just forgot Skarmory existed, and not that it's unviable.
Once again I'm here to nominate Garg into the VR. This pokemon is entirely carried by Salt cure and Purifying Salt, but those are such good tools. Magic guard pokemon don't exist here, and nobody runs covert cloak on anything means Salt cure has free real estate vs the entire tier. Salt Cure is very nice vs things like cm arc-fairy in an emergency, and curse lets you sometimes just run through teams that have alot of physical attackers primarily, like NDM/Korai/Ekiller builds. Here's a replay of me sending Fardin to the deep abyss with Garg in 22 turns: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubers-739973
This mon sucks, but it still has some shit. Magic Guard gives it nice longevity, knock off is extremely uncommon, can take up the rocker slot, and Alluring Voice over moonblast can help confuse things trying to setup on it like bulky DD Arc-Ground. It's not a koraidon answer, but Utility Umbrella can let it tank 2 blitz's from scarf korai from full, letting it soft check it to a degree, and can live a +2 blitz from SD Korai and twave it down, shutting it off completely. Not the best claim to fame ever, but it has it's value.
I'll be honest, this thing is overrated. It's most certainly a great pokemon, but alot of teams pack things that drive it nuts. Phys def Ho-oh, Arceus-Water, Skarmory is a good pokemon, and Arceus-Ground can often live a hit and kill it back. Obviously, Tera shakes some of these up, but for some of them, it barely changes the equation. Another issue I have with NDM is knock off. Yes, it has the move. But it practically will never knock anything of value in a game. Between Arc-Forms (sometimes carrying Wisp), Skarmory, and Gira-O/Gliscor, there's alot of times Knock ndm is not knocking any boots, which is part of why I think non dd/otr ndm sets are very crusty. It gets stonewalled and rocks offer minimal value in comparison to spikes and tspikes, especially since alot of the pokemon not running boots are things like Korai and Arc-Ground, who don't care that much about taking 6%.
This is partially why I think support ndm is kinda underwhelming. Sure, phys def NDM can handle SD Zacians blah blah, but you can honestly just slap dd on a phys def set and still do the job, in which case you aren't a support ndm anymore. This thing just doesn't have the amount of variety in sets it did before. Sure you have Bulky DD, Offensive DD, and OTR, but outside of that I think any other NDM set kinda sucks. Personally I consider it below Arc-Ground and Ekiller in terms of value, especially the former, so that's where I'd put it on the VR.
Why is arceus Steel now unviable?
I believe that with
clapping it along with 
walling it is not gonna be very valuable as you would want to run other acr forms like 
to check koraidon, 
for ekiller, or 
for 
, etc. plus it gets hit hard by so much things its not even funny, like 
.
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Why is lunala so bad? It on paper seems to be able to easily trade 1v1 and packs moonlight under sun.
because of miraidon by proxy ting lu is the most used defensive pokemon in the tier and it just ass walls lunala
I wouldn't call it bad, per say, just nicher than other picks. It can meteor beam sweep with agility, but Eternatus can also do that. I also have been using a dual screens set, with shadow shield allowing me to get off both screens pretty consistently, and teleport to switch out. The main problem is that Shadow Shield isn't saving you from most STAB hits from Mane or Pao, and Giratina can easily combo you with Hex into Sneak (though most sets don't use sneak). The Ekiller immunity is great, but you have to hit a Focus Blast to KO it without taking a hefty Shadow Claw. Shadow Shield also gets ruined by hazards, which is really big, as it is its main way of getting off an Agility, but since Hazards are so common, and removal is limited to just a few options, it means that you either have to double up on Ghosts or have to use Tusk, a C tier mon. It still is a great offense option, just not as consistent at sweeping as the other legends.
Speak of the devil, I was gonna make a post nominating Lunala to rise!
to B+Defensive Lunala is actually a really really good set, y'all have no idea. It fits only on balance and stall which is why I'm not nominating it higher, but the styles that can fit it absolutely love it. It can act as an emergency failsafe to basically anything thanks to its typing, bulk, Shadow Shield, and good moves. In a pinch it can even live a +2 Koraidon's Scale Shot in sun, or even a +1 Life Orb Miraidon's Draco Meteor, which is super valuable for defensive teams as you have an out just in case your primary check to these monsters is overwhelmed. Its base 137 Special Attack combined with Moongeist Beam means it's not passive, either. Overall, defensive Lunala is a super valuable addition to defensive teams in a way that I don't believe B- rank is indicative of.
Lunala @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shadow Shield
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Moonlight
Ability: Shadow Shield
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Moonlight
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dont know if this counts as an "intelligent post", but I see no reason why D rank cant also include mons with moves and abilities banned in ou that have no niche in ubers. stuff like 
, 
, and 
. If the point of D rank is to tell new players that even tho these mons have been banned from ou, that doesn't mean they are good here, then these guys should be added. New players do use these guys and there's nothing directly telling them that they shouldn't
, , and . If the point of D rank is to tell new players that even tho these mons have been banned from ou, that doesn't mean they are good here, then these guys should be added. New players do use these guys and there's nothing directly telling them that they shouldn't
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They do it in UUbers, so why don't they do it in Ubers? Seems a bit odd to me.dont know if this counts as an "intelligent post", but I see no reason why D rank cant also include mons with moves and abilities banned in ou that have no niche in ubers. stuff like
Probably because Shed Tail isn't a viable or niche playstyle in Ubers. Same thing applies to Last Respects spam and Gothitelle is the preferred trapper over Dugtriodont know if this counts as an "intelligent post", but I see no reason why D rank cant also include mons with moves and abilities banned in ou that have no niche in ubers. stuff like
yeah thats why they'd be in D rank cause they "possess no real metagame niche." I just think its worth pointing out that players shouldn't use them
UUbers is a UM which we have no jurisdiction over nor do their choices impact us. Also, the D rank is technically a formality that I am sure everyone on the council would be more than happy to get rid of, where it not for the fact that Ubers is an official metagame which forces us to rank them. Perhaps I'll campaign to make the reminder text even more belittling of the Pokemon that find themselves in the D ranks. But no, just because something posses a singular banned element doesn't mean it should be ranked, same reason we never ranked Trapinch when OU banned Arena Trap in every generation (ADV notwithstanding).
Shed Tail Orthworm does possess a decent niche thanks to Terrastalization + Earth Eater. It's why it's the only Shed Tail user ranked. It's not so much a playstyle as much as it is an option some HO teams can consider, much like Grimmsnarl has fallen out of favor by most tournament players.
quick one from everyone's favourite advocate for bad arceus formes, but i think arceus-dark should be ranked a bit higher than D, maybe in C- or C or something. it offers a very solid check to both necrozma-dm and basculegion in one team slot, something i don't think can be said for any other arceus forme. it's also at least not total zacian-c / koraidon food, given that you can run either tera poison or tera fairy on it + it should probably always pack will-o-wisp, which discourages foolhardy switch-ins. it is certainly not as easy to fit on teams as arceus-fairy or arceus-water, but D rank is surely doing it an injustice.
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i just did and i didn’t like it :(
New VR Update! Will post the spreadsheet here when it is locked for people to see how the council voted.
Rises:
S(3) to S(2)
A to A+
A- to A
A- to A
B to A-
B- to B+
B- to B+
C+ to B+
C+ to B
C+ to B-
C to B-
D to C+
C to C+
C- to C
UR to C
UR to C
C- to C
UR to C-
UR to C-
UR to C-
D to C-
D to C-
Drops:
S(2) to S(3)
A+ to A
A to A-
A- to B+
A- to B+
A- to B+
B+ to B
B+ to B-
B to B-
B to B-
B to B-
B- to C+
C+ to C
C to C-
C- to UR
Rises:
S(3) to S(2) A to A+ A- to A A- to A B to A- B- to B+ B- to B+ C+ to B+ C+ to B C+ to B- C to B- D to C+ C to C+ C- to C UR to C UR to C C- to C UR to C- UR to C- UR to C- D to C- D to C-Drops:
S(2) to S(3) A+ to A A to A- A- to B+ A- to B+ A- to B+ B+ to B B+ to B- B to B- B to B- B to B- B- to C+ C+ to C C to C- C- to UR
forgot to remove iron treads from c- when he got moved upNew VR Update! Will post the spreadsheet here when it is locked for people to see how the council voted.
Rises:
Drops:
Guess double kick terrakion is too powerful. (Did anybody get that reference?)
B- to BI think dropping skeledirge is fair, but B- is too low. I've messed around with it a bit, and it counters the three top mons in the meta. It walls koraidon and can use alluring voice to destroy it, necrozma dusk mane can only knock off it's item and maybe get an e-quake off, while you tera ground and get off two torch songs, and miriadon you can alluring voice and tera ground, preventing it setting up. A set of torch song, alluring voice and slack off with a fourth move such as roar, will-o-wisp or shadow ball is amazing.
B+ to A-Sticky webs is insanely powerful in ubers due to the lack of removal (have to use otherwise subpar mons or giratina-origin, which is alright). This allows really powerful mons such as parabolic charge miriadon and basculegion to thrive. Sure, things can wear HDB, but some mons such as zacian, loaded dice koraidon and all non-normal arceus forms cannot. It's a great playstyle, and ribombee is the best mon to lay them. Also helps that it can deal with koraidon and miriadon if it's sash is intact.
another update ice rider gets robbedNew VR Update! Will post the spreadsheet here when it is locked for people to see how the council voted.
Rises:
curious for the reasons for the pecharunt rise tho, have literally never seen it on ladder lmaoagree heavily with the dirge and lando drops, thank you for putting them in their place. would honestly argue pex is fully UR now too, but i dont think many would agree there. also no clue what gira is doing up that high, defog is nice but its always underwhelming in its roll in practice and often necessitates teraDrops:
Necrozma dusk mane is not really walled by this thing, unless its some weird tera dark ones as photon geyser can bypass its ability and use tera fire to turn it into setup fodder, no good smh. plus Kyogre and miraidon or any special attacker with a move to hit it can wreck it.Guess double kick terrakion is too powerful. (Did anybody get that reference?)
I think dropping skeledirge is fair, but B- is too low. I've messed around with it a bit, and it counters the three top mons in the meta. It walls koraidon and can use alluring voice to destroy it, necrozma dusk mane can only knock off it's item and maybe get an e-quake off, while you tera ground and get off two torch songs, and miriadon you can alluring voice and tera ground, preventing it setting up. A set of torch song, alluring voice and slack off with a fourth move such as roar, will-o-wisp or shadow ball is amazing.
Sticky webs is insanely powerful in ubers due to the lack of removal (have to use otherwise subpar mons or giratina-origin, which is alright). This allows really powerful mons such as parabolic charge miriadon and basculegion to thrive. Sure, things can wear HDB, but some mons such as zacian, loaded dice koraidon and all non-normal arceus forms cannot. It's a great playstyle, and ribombee is the best mon to lay them. Also helps that it can deal with koraidon and miriadon if it's sash is intact.
and yes, everybody here gets it along with geomancy moonblast reflect ingrain xerneas.
EDIT: and did I forget that this thing is free setup for miraidon? this thing cant take outrages too well either.
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Alluring voice means that necrozma dusk mane can't really set up on it in fear of hitting itself. It can also just roar it out if you are really worried about it. +1 photon geyser does about 65% max, so I would say it can take it on necrozma.
Again, alluring voice deters set up because skeledirge is super slow and thus it will always underspeed miriadon. Outrages do about 50%ish to skeledirge, which while not ideal, it can at the very least take a hit, while it alluring voice's koraidon. Koraidon locking itself into outrage isn't ideal, as now you can switch into a fairy type to wall it, since outrage is used on scarf sets.
well, the moves it use are usually slack off, torch song, wisp and a ghost move/earth power/voice or roar, it cant put all it wants In its 4 slots.
plus is alluring voice even a real set? this thing is also afraid of flutter mane, maybe groudon, giratina, cm groundy, cm waterceus, sometimes eternatus, and more. this thing is also walled by many stuff.
The thing is less so that it is walled by things, but moreso that it can wall things. I would also say drop will-o-wisp, as you stated many mons have tera fire up their back sleeves so it will likely not be as useful. Alluring voice is a move that is definetely great on skeledirge, fairy type moves are powerful in ubers and the ability to confuse opponents if they try to set up is very nice.
trick room NDM sets up on it with tera fire as it is slower than skele, and if it uses tera fire unexpectedly and is slower than you, you just gave the free turns, potentially even a plus 4 NDM coming your way. also Bulbasaur<heatran, what happened to the PFP? alluring voice is not too real of a set to me or any other top level players (which neither am I is a part of)