Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[Magcargo]

I'm theorycrafting a bit rn I think Zama-C won't be that good. Volcarona, Boldengo, Gliscor's Spikes, etc. will all make Zama-C far more manageable I think. As will cores like Lando-T + PhysDef G-King, G-King x Zapdos, etc. Its not like I'm running this stuff specifically for Zama-C either. Gliscor's Spikes are a premium and will fuck over Zama guaranteed, Zapdos and G-King have good synergy, Volcarona is good sweeper and wincon in its own right that will fuck over most Zama variants, and Boldengo in general is just a very good Pokemon. Sure Zama-C can tech some coverage, but it can't run ID, BP, Roar, Rest, Behemoth Bash, Stone Edge, and Crunch on the same set

I actually think the inital metagame will be very balance heavy. Volcarona and Gliscor are very nice tools for balance to have, espicially Volcarona since that gives Balance a very potent wincon. The only questionable freed mons are Sneasler and Roaring Moon (and Bax / Shifu but it looks like those mons will not be freed), which I think will be quickbanned, but once those are out of the way (and maybe Oger as well) I think this could very well be the best version of the Gen 9 metagame.

 

[Red violet blue]

Zygarde should never be ou with tera. Thousand arrows destroy everything except the earth eater thing, and some grass or bug type mons. With tera fire or flying, it would be litteraly impossible to check.
Zygarde could even run e-speed to KO encore valiant (just like dragonite).
Thousand arrows is broken on a bulky dragon dance sweeper. Zygarde also learns glare, sub, coil and thousand waves (idk if this move is really useful) and has a good typing.
Both defensive and defensive tera seem wild on it.

(Off course the little dog can be allowed, because this one has less bulk)

I really hope that Zygarde isn't back in ou.
Perhaps this mon isn't back at all

 

[fart goblin]

If everyone is going absolutely crazy over unbanning stuff, why don't we just unban as power construct is banned in OU anyway? If we are seriously thinking to ban all this, just send it down.

i think you forgot about the 90 Base Power Ground Immunity Bypassing elephant in the room before writing this

okay okay I'm all for testing shittier ubers as long as they won't blatantly destroy the tier but I think there has to be a point where the people who want these monsters to drop should consider the difference in power scaling between ou and ubers because zygarde is NOT handicapped by any stretch of the imagination

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Hot take: the creation of UUbers blinds the people from the truth. The past is the past. Soon, we will live in an economy where Deoxys Attack is mid in OU, yet you want to keep it locked up in UUbers. WHY? Do you seriously think that XY DoA is going to be the exact same as it is now? Do you just NOT want to have a prior Uber in OU? Just say you don't want a past Uber in OU bro -- nothing is going to happen to you. UUbers isn't OU and ik this is the OU Forum, but UUbers now directly correlates with Ubers and OU bans. If it's too good for OU, it goes to Ubers. If it sucks in Ubers and is too good for OU, it goes to UUbers.

You can have SOMETHING funny happen in OU, right? There is no such thing as perfect. There never will be such a thing as a generation without any bans. Quit being so dense and be happy with the addition of the old Ubers

 

[yomaalt]

and now we're talking about zygarde. which might not even come back. fantastic. listen, i get that we exhausted all productive and relevant discussion about dlc1 a while ago, but this is just utterly ridiculous at this point. is there some kind of secret "post the most wack take you can think of" contest going on? will i win something if i say something about, i dunno, calyrex-ice?

As a Time traveler I'm here to say it gets worse! Don't fret, cause the limits of human uh.... creativity? In terms of messing shit up does not have a limit. Orrrrr just wait till someone like vert or smth makes a post explaining how solga is balanced then the entire forum agrees with them

yomaalt you know I respect you but why the fuck did you put matchup moth and we bear bears as semi-acceptable choices but not gliscor

Ask SDK03

In due time, I shall present you all with a text that explains how reshiram, genesect and solgaleo wouldn't break OU in half. I'm hoping to see as many of you there!~

Never mind y'all already did the solgaleo discussion it's no longer funny :(
Also I can't justify resh in good conscience it's genuinely too broken, chi yu type nuclear bomb while actually having MANY options to bypass anything that dares challenge it's bright flames of truth.

 

[Lily]

Just a reminder that something's viability in uubers has absolutely no merit when discussing its viability in uu because a) uubers is missing access to multiple OU pokemon like great tusk, skeledirge, ting-lu, and lando-t which all affect the viability of incoming mons and b) the mons in that tier have to focus more on contending with arceus than anything else. it doesn't matter if something is good there or not at all, idk why I keep seeing that tier get brought up here.

I voted to free everything except Baxcalibur although I don't have much faith in Urshifu-R or Sneasler lasting if they are to get unbanned.

 

[KamenOH]

My only contention is the meta warping Urshitfu
That damn dirty bear needs to stay out of OU. Everything else is fine

 

[RaikouLover]

Volcarona + Tera = my blood pressure skyrocketing the next two weeks.

Y’all wanted this.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

and now we're talking about zygarde. which might not even come back. fantastic. listen, i get that we exhausted all productive and relevant discussion about dlc1 a while ago, but this is just utterly ridiculous at this point. is there some kind of secret "post the most wack take you can think of" contest going on? will i win something if i say something about, i dunno, calyrex-ice?

Sorry mate, I just said

If everyone is going absolutely crazy over unbanning stuff,

as a way of expressing how annoyed I was about everyone doing this unban stuff. I was very annoyed with it and intended it to be kinda sarcastic, sorry if it didn't show as the only way is really to make it do ThE tHiNg. Something else I said was that I was

Not saying any of this is reasonable, but...

 

[SDK03]

Does everyone talking about “Zama-C being mid” forget Alomomola with WishTurn exists? That duo is gonna be damn near unkillable in OU. Put together a nice Bulky Offense or Stall team with the three of Zama-C, Alomomola and Gliscor to disallow your opponent from doing anything.

 

[ausma]

I take it you will vote against Zama-C?

Nope! I actually voted to free it. Even though my stance is usually against freeing box legendaries, I do feel Zamazenta is a considerably different circumstance given the fact its general effects and role as a fast tanky attacker have had ample experience in the tier. With more inevitable power creep as well as how much the lack of an item slot debilitates it, I do think it could potentially be fine. However the vote, if it contributes to a freed Zamazenta-C, isn't going to force a broken Pokemon to be in the tier longer than it should be if it winds up having the same effect it did after HOME.

 

[pika pal]

Does everyone talking about “Zama-C being mid” forget Alomomola with WishTurn exists? That duo is gonna be damn near unkillable in OU. Put together a nice Bulky Offense or Stall team with the three of Zama-C, Alomomola and Gliscor to disallow your opponent from doing anything.

I always wondered what the Pokemon equivalent of getting Ash Blossom'd would feel like.

 

[Magcargo]

Ngl I am incredibly stubborn and biased in favor or Urshifu-Rs but I am curious why the council and general public perceive it to be so broken compared to existing metagame threats.

In particular, I feel it would be very difficult to argue Urshifu-RS is any more overwhelming than Ogerpon, which is stronger than punching gloves Shifu, has a cheaper STAB move that doesn't make contact, is noticeably faster, has Spikes, Encore, and Knoxk Off on top of having similar secondary STAB options (healing with Horn Leech , power with power whip) better coverage moves, ON TOP OF having all of Urshifu's cheese options like Trailblaze and Taunt. It also is a better user of Tera Water. Is it because Shifu is harder to check with Tera?

Shifu would have good meta impact too by shutting down Gliscor and Gambit.

I get ogerpon is already a contentious Pokemon, but it just feels strange to not even consider dropping Shifu given ogerpon's presence in the metagame.

 

[apoteosis]

Ngl I am incredibly stubborn and biased in favor or Urshifu-Rs but I am curious why the council and general public perceive it to be so broken compared to existing metagame threats.

In particular, I feel it would be very difficult to argue Urshifu-RS is any more overwhelming than Ogerpon, which is stronger than punching gloves Shifu, has a cheaper STAB move that doesn't make contact, is noticeably faster, has Spikes, Encore, and Knoxk Off on top of having similar secondary STAB options (healing with Horn Leech , power with power whip) better coverage moves, ON TOP OF having all of Urshifu's cheese options like Trailblaze and Taunt. It also is a better user of Tera Water. Is it because Shifu is harder to check with Tera?

Shifu would have good meta impact too by shutting down Gliscor and Gambit.

I get ogerpon is already a contentious Pokemon, but it just feels strange to not even consider dropping Shifu given ogerpon's presence in the metagame.

Imo it's because you can't scout shifu since it has unseen fist. Plus it can use an item, unlike waterpon.

For the record, I think that waterpon is the most stupid mon up to date and needs to be banned just like its fire brother

 

[Cuddly]

I gotta ask. Why 80 SpA? Is it just the leftover IVs when you hit all the other benchmarks?

I gave Solgaleo enough speed to outspeed Great Tusk, dumped 252 in Atk, and then rest into SpA.

 

[YubelVT]

Ngl I am incredibly stubborn and biased in favor or Urshifu-Rs but I am curious why the council and general public perceive it to be so broken compared to existing metagame threats.

In particular, I feel it would be very difficult to argue Urshifu-RS is any more overwhelming than Ogerpon, which is stronger than punching gloves Shifu, has a cheaper STAB move that doesn't make contact, is noticeably faster, has Spikes, Encore, and Knoxk Off on top of having similar secondary STAB options (healing with Horn Leech , power with power whip) better coverage moves, ON TOP OF having all of Urshifu's cheese options like Trailblaze and Taunt. It also is a better user of Tera Water. Is it because Shifu is harder to check with Tera?

Shifu would have good meta impact too by shutting down Gliscor and Gambit.

I get ogerpon is already a contentious Pokemon, but it just feels strange to not even consider dropping Shifu given ogerpon's presence in the metagame.

+2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Tera Water Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight on a critical hit: 426-504 (106.7 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Tera Water Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss in Rain on a critical hit: 450-531 (104.1 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Tera Water Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Ferrothorn in Rain on a critical hit: 321-378 (91.1 - 107.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
urshifu is too strong in rain (even if I forgot to put rain on in the first calc SHUT)
also ogerpon can't take a moderately strong physical hit and that almost balances it.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Imo it's because you can't scout shifu since it has unseen fist. Plus it can use an item, unlike waterpon.

For the record, I think that waterpon is the most stupid mon up to date and needs to be banned just like its fire brother

I would normally agree that item locks are a hindrance but Ogerpon masks are literally better than any item not named HDB or Scarf.

 

[YubelVT]

I would normally agree that item locks are a hindrance but Ogerpon masks are literally better than any item not named HDB or Scarf.

Leftovers is in the corner crying how could you do this to them

 

[Kadiro]

I really dont understand the people that voted to unban sneasler. Also, not happy that gliscor is back, the meta with it was easily the worst we have had in all SV, too centralizing and fking inmortal. Dont get it.

 

[Return to Zero]

I really dont understand the people that voted to unban sneasler. Also, not happy that gliscor is back, the meta with it was easily the worst we have had in all SV, too centralizing and fking inmortal. Dont get it.

The big reason Gliscor was banned was that its counterplay, that being moderately fast Water/Ice Special moves, is uniquely very difficult to produce in Teal Mask OU, so the vast majority of the time you're forced to only deal with Gliscor's strengths and not its weaknesses. The thing only had good matchups. The vote to ban it was really close, and Indigo Disk is going to shake up the metagame between new DLC additions and potential Ubers drops, so I think a Gliscor revisit is perfectly reasonable.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

I would normally agree that item locks are a hindrance but Ogerpon masks are literally better than any item not named HDB or Scarf.

A wild Stall player appeared!
The wild Stall player said ' and are the best!'
The wild Stall player fled.

A wild LC player appeared!
The wild LC player said ' and are the best!'
You are confused!
The wild LC player fled.

Every single suicide lead appeared!
They all said ' is the best!'
You are cured of his confusion as it makes sense.
The suicide leads fled.

A wild and appeared!
The wild and sweep your team!
You lost to and !
You hurry back to the Pokémon Center, protecting your exhausted Pokémon from any further harm...

You boot up Natdex AG for some fun!
You see an tera electric !
The sweeps your team! (if you don't have a mold breaker mon)
You lost to !
You hurry back to the Pokémon Center, protecting your exhausted Pokémon from any further harm...

 

[Ruft]

Gliscor, Roaring Moon, Volcarona, and Darkrai will be unbanned from SV OU with the Indigo Disk DLC:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-from-sv-ou-with-the-indigo-disk-dlc.3732524/

 

[Kenpwnchi]

Gliscor, Roaring Moon, Volcarona, and Darkrai will be unbanned from SV OU with the Indigo Disk DLC:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-from-sv-ou-with-the-indigo-disk-dlc.3732524/

How are we feeling about this?

 

[Goodstyle]

Very good unbanning choices.

Darkrai and Volc I think may end up too strong, but the will of the people can't be ignored there, and RM and Gliscor deserve another shot.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Fine, we'll see how it works hehe. (but please ReMove Roaring Moon)