Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[R_N]

Memorability is pretty subjective. I don't think Gen 5 is necessarily more inherently* forgettable than, i dunno, gen 4 or 7 or whatever

Personally I find Heatmor pretty distinctive: anteater is cool, i like the pipe tail, the fun claws, the durant connection, flame tongue. Statistically it might be "whatever", but he's a neat dude. Also got a signature move in gen 7, for some reason (saw more distribution in gen 8)
But obviously Worldie memory holes it. It's just how it goes.



*Aside from the fact that there were 156 of them. By numbers alone you're probably more likely to forget a gen 5 pokemon than a gen 6 pokemon.

 

[Worldie]

Also got a signature move in gen 7, for some reason (saw more distribution in gen 8)

I'll be honest if it wasn't for this specific reason, I'd probably not have even reminded it in the post above. If I see Fire Lash somewhere I will generally somewhere remind "ah yes this was Heatmor's".

Nothing against the guy, but since before it didn't really have... anything special, it just never struck me other than "just another fire type" ._.
I have a similar reaction to the preevos of Vivillion... i can recall their "shape" but not their names even now, since they just go under "generic bug type pre-evo of butterfly mon.
(Ironically, I actually thought they were Dustox and Beautifly's preevos until my brain reminded of the Arceus quest one and of Wurmple's existance)

 

[Karxrida]

Why do Shellder and Cloyster get Teleport via TM in Gen I/LGPE.

While they're not the only weird choices, the other non-Psychic Pokémon with access to the move can kind of be explained (Arcanine is implied to be super fast, Voltorb and Electrode are super fast, etc.). How the fuck are the clams able to teleport.

(Electabuzz and Magmar are a couple other Pokémon with the move that you can't BS explanations for, but they're not as silly as teleporting clams.)

 

[R_N]

Why do Shellder and Cloyster get Teleport via TM in Gen I/LGPE.

While they're not the only weird choices, the other non-Psychic Pokémon with access to the move can kind of be explained (Arcanine is implied to be super fast, Voltorb and Electrode are super fast, etc.). How the fuck are the clams able to teleport.

(Electabuzz and Magmar are a couple other Pokémon with the move that you can't BS explanations for, but they're not as silly as teleporting clams.)

https://dantheclamman.blog/2019/02/13/how-does-a-scallop-swim/

they be zooming !

 

[Karxrida]

https://dantheclamman.blog/2019/02/13/how-does-a-scallop-swim/

they be zooming !

I knew about their ability to swim decently fast, but that ain't fast enough to justify Teleport lol.

 

[woodgoldtwo]

This isn't a movepool oddity but it's the most fitting thread i could find for this

I remember seing somewhere that the speed stat doesn't measure how fast a pokemon can move (as in traversal) but rather how quickly it can act
When thinking about it like this a lot of odd things about the speed stat start making more sense

Why does being able to (for example) run fast allow you to attack first in a battle? It doesn't. But being able to act quickly? Self explanatory.
Some pokemon might in theory be able to act quickly but are held back by their equipment, accessories or something similar. For example: Zamazenta losing 10 speed in it's crowned form (the giant shield, while practical, is probably quite clunky to move around in) As for Kingambit: if you were wearing metal equipment and sitting down it would probably take a second or two before you could get going

This doesn't mean that being able to move quickly has no impact on what a pokemon's speed stat is (though it shouldn't be seen as the only thing that the speed stat is based on (which is the point of this post))

 

[QuentinQuonce]

This is probably also the wrong thread for this, but I just noticed something curious I felt like sharing:

In Gen III, the switching mechanics in double battles mean that new Pokemon have to be sent out more or less immediately. Obviously, this presents a whole host of funny strategic implications. One such example relates to Counter and Mirror Coat.

Lets say I'm in a double battle where the foe's Machamp chooses to use Counter, and survives a hit from my Salamence. But then the other foe - let's say Latios - causes Salamence to faint before Ursaring can execute its move. I have to send in my backup, Gardevoir, straight away - boom, Gardevoir has to take the hit from Counter upon emerging from its Pokeball, not even getting a chance to move.

In Gen IV the switching mechanics are altered - now everyone gets to take their turn before new Pokemon can be sent out. This makes things fairer overall.

However, I just had a similar situation happen - my Tauros used Double-Edge, bringing the foe's Ursaring within an inch of fainting but causing itself to faint thanks to recoil. My partner's Tyranitar used Stone Edge on the foe's Altaria, fainting it, and Ursaring used Counter...

...but nothing happened. It didn't hit Tyranitar, as the only target left on the field: the move just failed. Huh.

I'm actually kind of in two minds about this. I mean, yeah: it shouldn't hit Tyranitar because Tyranitar wasn't the one who attacked it. But neither did the Gardevoir in my prior example. So maybe it should just fail altogether if the Pokemon who sent the move isn't on the field for any reason? Oh but wait, that'd mean that you could use a move like U-Turn and pivot out with no consequence...

It's moot now, obviously, and Gen IV's fix was, in that specific circumstance, for the better. But in both cases the way the move operates seems unfair: to the opponent in the prior instance, and to the user in the latter. Given how straightforward it seems on paper I was surprised!

 

[pika pal]

This is probably also the wrong thread for this, but I just noticed something curious I felt like sharing:

In Gen III, the switching mechanics in double battles mean that new Pokemon have to be sent out more or less immediately. Obviously, this presents a whole host of funny strategic implications. One such example relates to Counter and Mirror Coat.

Lets say I'm in a double battle where the foe's Machamp chooses to use Counter, and survives a hit from my Salamence. But then the other foe - let's say Latios - causes Salamence to faint before Ursaring can execute its move. I have to send in my backup, Gardevoir, straight away - boom, Gardevoir has to take the hit from Counter upon emerging from its Pokeball, not even getting a chance to move.

In Gen IV the switching mechanics are altered - now everyone gets to take their turn before new Pokemon can be sent out. This makes things fairer overall.

However, I just had a similar situation happen - my Tauros used Double-Edge, bringing the foe's Ursaring within an inch of fainting but causing itself to faint thanks to recoil. My partner's Tyranitar used Stone Edge on the foe's Altaria, fainting it, and Ursaring used Counter...

...but nothing happened. It didn't hit Tyranitar, as the only target left on the field: the move just failed. Huh.

I'm actually kind of in two minds about this. I mean, yeah: it shouldn't hit Tyranitar because Tyranitar wasn't the one who attacked it. But neither did the Gardevoir in my prior example. So maybe it should just fail altogether if the Pokemon who sent the move isn't on the field for any reason? Oh but wait, that'd mean that you could use a move like U-Turn and pivot out with no consequence...

It's moot now, obviously, and Gen IV's fix was, in that specific circumstance, for the better. But in both cases the way the move operates seems unfair: to the opponent in the prior instance, and to the user in the latter. Given how straightforward it seems on paper I was surprised!

My best guess is it's a basic coding to have the move work on the "slot" of whatever hit the Pokemon last without retargetting (to avoid weird shenanigans like picking an opponent if both hit the Counter user, or how to calc the damage on one target), but in Gen 4 onward, that "slot" is empty after fainting for the rest of the turn. Easiest way to test would be to see if the Pokemon still hits the new-switch with Counter/Mirror Coat if the opponent swaps out with a Pivot move, since it goes in the same spot but changes the Recipient.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

My best guess is it's a basic coding to have the move work on the "slot" of whatever hit the Pokemon last without retargetting (to avoid weird shenanigans like picking an opponent if both hit the Counter user, or how to calc the damage on one target), but in Gen 4 onward, that "slot" is empty after fainting for the rest of the turn. Easiest way to test would be to see if the Pokemon still hits the new-switch with Counter/Mirror Coat if the opponent swaps out with a Pivot move, since it goes in the same spot but changes the Recipient.

It does, that wasn't in any doubt from me. A Pokemon can Counter damage from U-Turn onto the replacement Pokemon, no need to test it.

My point was more about the disparity between who the reflected damage can hit in the scenarios I described.

 

[Karxrida]

So Scald is pretty well-distributed among Water-types, but Water/Ice-types (and Ice-types in general) cannot be taught the move. Makes sense from a logical perspective; it's literally hot water, and that's antithetical to Ice's whole deal.

Except fucking Crabominable can learn the move and I cannot fathom why.

Edit: Decided to look into it, and one of Crabominable's inspirations is the yeti crab (mostly for the pun). Several species of yeti crab live in hydrothermal vents, which are super freaking hot. Which means Crabominable learning Scald actually makes some sense.

You win this round, Game Freak.

 

[Imperial Magala]

So Scald is pretty well-distributed among Water-types, but Water/Ice-types (and Ice-types in general) cannot be taught the move. Makes sense from a logical perspective; it's literally hot water, and that's antithetical to Ice's whole deal.

Except fucking Crabominable can learn the move and I cannot fathom why.

Edit: Decided to look into it, and one of Crabominable's inspirations is the yeti crab (mostly for the pun). Several species of yeti crab live in hydrothermal vents, which are super freaking hot. Which means Crabominable learning Scald actually makes some sense.

You win this round, Game Freak.

I think it’s more so Crabrawler getting a bunch of Water type moves that Crabominable inherits from. Cool fact though, Crabrawler gets Frost Breath, which is also learned by a couple Alolan Water types when so far only Ice types can learn it previously.

 

[Worldie]

I think it’s more so Crabrawler getting a bunch of Water type moves that Crabominable inherits from. Cool fact though, Crabrawler gets Frost Breath, which is also learned by a couple Alolan Water types when so far only Ice types can learn it previously.

To be fair, why not both.
Regardless, iirc crabs snapping pincers also produce insanely high temperature steam jets underwater, so all in all both explanations work

 

[Bakugames]

Crabominable learns scald because hes epic and swag like that

 

[QuentinQuonce]

To be fair, why not both.
Regardless, iirc crabs snapping pincers also produce insanely high temperature steam jets underwater, so all in all both explanations work

I believe Clauncher/Clawitzer's dex entries mention this.

 

[Karxrida]

To be fair, why not both.
Regardless, iirc crabs snapping pincers also produce insanely high temperature steam jets underwater, so all in all both explanations work

I believe Clauncher/Clawitzer's dex entries mention this.

That's a specific crustacean known as the pistol shrimp, which Clauncher and Clawitzer are based on.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Why do Shellder and Cloyster get Teleport via TM in Gen I/LGPE.

How do you think the Shellder on the various body parts of Slowpoke's evolutions appear when there was none nearby when it evolved? Shellder will break the laws of physics if it means clamping onto some delicious Slowpoke flesh.

Some pokemon might in theory be able to act quickly but are held back by their equipment, accessories or something similar.

Also known as the Escavalier Paradox:

 

[HiWorld64]

Turtle Pokemon getting shell smash is kind of odd considering that turtle's shells are part of the body and they can't survive without it (source: https://www.tortoiseowner.com/can-tortoises-turtles-live-without-their-shell/). This is less of a oddity in terms of why these Pokemon where given shell smash, and more so oddity in terms of them being able to use the move. While Pokemon is obviously not going for realism, this still feels odd to me. An explanation could be that these turtle Pokemon aren't destroying their shells, but instead removing some parts of it to lighten the shell in a way that doesn't harm the Pokemon. Blastoise getting the move is extra weird, considering that it's cannon seem to be part of it's shell. If the cannons are removed with the shell, then it would be weird that it still gets an attack boost.

 

[Bakugames]

oddity in terms of them being able to use the move

Explosive moves (either literal explosions or seemingly removing entire parts of the mon) are mostly exaggerated. Shell smash probably is a vague "breaks down the shell/pokemons natural defenses (i.e magic)", explosion/self destruct are just a "use every ounce of your power into one single move". Its just cooler if its shown as a literal explosion LOL

 

[Pikachu315111]

Turtle Pokemon getting shell smash is kind of odd considering that turtle's shells are part of the body and they can't survive without it (source: https://www.tortoiseowner.com/can-tortoises-turtles-live-without-their-shell/). This is less of a oddity in terms of why these Pokemon where given shell smash, and more so oddity in terms of them being able to use the move. While Pokemon is obviously not going for realism, this still feels odd to me. An explanation could be that these turtle Pokemon aren't destroying their shells, but instead removing some parts of it to lighten the shell in a way that doesn't harm the Pokemon. Blastoise getting the move is extra weird, considering that it's cannon seem to be part of it's shell. If the cannons are removed with the shell, then it would be weird that it still gets an attack boost.

Not just turtles/tortoises, but the same can be said about clams (Shellder family, Clamperl), ammonites (Omanyte family) & snails (Magacargo).

In addition to that, some shelled Pokemon who get Shell Smash are ones who also probably wouldn't want their shells broken: Shuckle's shell I think is as much a part of it as the above animals are, the Binacle family's "shell" I'm assuming is the rock they're attached to which they need to be a singular functioning Pokemon, and finally the Sinistea family's "shell' is the tea cup & teapot is holding their liquid body.

Shell Smash makes sense for Clamperl's evolutions, the Dwebble family, and Minior so it's not like there aren't Pokemon it can't work worth. Infact, it's odd Binacle is the only crustacean here (and it's on here not for its natural shell but for the rocks it attach themselves to) as crustacean's exoskeletons are considered shells which they molt every once in a while to grow a bigger shell. Krabby family, Kabuto family, Corphish family, Clauncher family, Crabrawler family, Wimpod family, & KLAWK (aka the Pokemon which has the Ability version of Shell Smash).

Heck, that also extends into bugs like scorpions (Skorupi family, Gligar family(?)), beetles (Pinsir, Heracross, Ledyba family, Charjabug/Vikavolt), bagworms (Pineco family, Wormadam), and others (Scizor/Kleavor, Nincada family, Venipede family, Durant).

At the risk of wishlisting, they're both very exclusive what they consider a shell... except when they're not. Like there's a few Pokemon in the Grass and Mineral Egg Group who I think have a fair reason of at least learning it.

 

[Worldie]

Fwiw from the anime, usage of Shell Smash either had the pokemon just leave the shell behind, or fuse the shell into its body while being able to just reconstruct it after the battle.

Kinda like explosion moves, the pokemon isn't exactly destroying itself permanently.

 

[Bakugames]

Fwiw from the anime, usage of Shell Smash either had the pokemon just leave the shell behind, or fuse the shell into its body while being able to just reconstruct it after the battle.
View attachment 548754

Kinda like explosion moves, the pokemon isn't exactly destroying itself permanently.

 

[Worldie]

View attachment 548756

I am unironically confused by the meme, provide explanation.

 

[Bakugames]

I am unironically confused by the meme, provide explanation.

I like turtonator :)

 

[Worldie]

I like turtonator :)

A respectable opinion sir, all glory to our fire turtle lord

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Great Tusk and Koraidon are the only past paradoxes to learn Sunny Day by level up. The rest can only learn it via the move reminder. Tusk and Koraidon learn the move at level 1 so it's functionally identical, so the distinction is already pretty weird, but maybe you think "okay maybe those two are internally different because they're highlighted in-game as your ride and a titan" but then you look at the future paradoxes and the only ones who learn Electric Terrain at level 1 instead of the move reminder are Iron Treads, Miraidon, and Iron Jugulis for some reason.

Also Sandy Shocks learns Electric Terrain at level 1 but that's just because it's an Electric-type rather than anything to do with paradox stuff.