2015 RSE theory hit different
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I think another layer to this is that Nintendo's hardware has historically been behind competing consoles of the same generation (whether it has an appreciable effect or is mostly market points varies by generation), so part of their brand became "look how impressive our games can be with less than others use!" That point is a legitimate appeal to some people, be it for allowing features and convenience (Switch's Portability frequently comes up) or simply a perception that their games have to be more solid to "make up" for the weaker tech on both presentation and performance.
Pokemon games looking so bad from a technical standpoint, with a game Nintendo's brand is heavily attached to vs a 3rd Party developer or port, is going to damage that image heavily. Despite TotK and Xenoblade demonstrating some impressive worlds and visuals for the technology, SV started a conversation (whether sincerely or as an excuse) that the console's aged hardware is holding back releases on it, which doesn't look good for people debating picking up a Switch or Publishers considering a Switch game/version. Compare this to so many other AAA Publishers and series, which generally have very buggy releases but continue to put up with it because they can stomach the bad press. In Nintendo's case (not Pokemon's maybe but one of its big 3 Entities), this press is not simply bad, but runs directly counter to an aspect their brand sells itself on, and the last thing they want is swiss-cheese coding in Pokemon to shake peoples' confidence in buying the next Mario or Zelda or Metroid Prime 4 in 2025.
Calyrex-Shadow, Koraidon, Miraidon, and (Gen 8) Zacian-Crowned are all more broken than Mega Rayquaza ever was.
Same goes with various Dynamax Pokemon, such as Xerneas, Yveltal, and Necrozma Dusk Mane.
Did Mega Rayquaza create Anything Goes? Yes. People fail to acknowledge that this was just the beginning and the game has gotten significantly more powercrept since....
Same goes with various Dynamax Pokemon, such as Xerneas, Yveltal, and Necrozma Dusk Mane.
Did Mega Rayquaza create Anything Goes? Yes. People fail to acknowledge that this was just the beginning and the game has gotten significantly more powercrept since....
There's also the issue of the fact that the Switch is now a completely different beast from every portable platform that came before it. Previously, Nintendo would have a separate home console and a portable console per console generation that co-existed with one another. The Game Boy, DS, and 3DS were all coexisting alongside the N64, GameCube, Wii, and Wii U as a sister platform that was a dedicated portable console. Handhelds were cheaper, were weaker in power, and games on dedicated portable consoles were smaller in scope and were accepted as such. Games on them were also cheaper accordingly in line with their scope.
However, the Switch is a completely different beast. It is pulling double duty as both a portable and a home console at once. Nintendo is no longer making two separate platforms for two separate markets, like the DS and Wii or the 3DS and Wii U. The Switch is the one and only, and the successor that has been in rumors is setting up to be similar as well. However, when it comes to scope, price, and whatnot, the home console aspect of the Switch reigns supreme. Games are priced strictly at console level, 60 USD and presumably 70 for the successor, and console scale games are the expectation.
Game Freak has always historically been a portable-scale game oriented developer, and Pokemon games were pretty much smaller in scope and being strictly on handhelds, were appreciated as small scope quirky handheld games. Unfortunately, being on the Switch means the handheld aspect asked for Pokemon to jump ship to the Switch itself, but the fact that it's also a home console means the expectations for a Switch game are much higher now than they were for the Game Boy, DS, and 3DS. The first seven generations of Pokemon were never compared to the likes of Mario, Zelda, or Metroid games on the corresponding home consoles. They were just what they were. Now, they're being compared to the likes of Mario Odyssey, BOTW+TOTK, Xenoblade, and whatnot, all these experiences that show off what the Switch can really do.
And the prevailing issue here is that it showed with SwSh, PLA, and SV altogether, but Pokemon games on the Switch have been incredibly below par with what is expected of even a Switch title, even if Switch games aren't the pinnacle of power compared to a PlayStation or Xbox game. Sword and Shield was ridiculed for its graphics, but it was also comically underwhelming in scope for a Switch game, especially one that is at standard console game price. Legends: Arceus has been panned for looking mediocre. Scarlet and Violet is more like a console scale Pokemon game compared to SwSh, and actually feels like one, but the technical shortcomings are well documented.
Which is to say, what worked historically for Pokemon since the very beginning is clearly not working here. What was considered acceptable for a Game Boy/DS/3DS game is considered unacceptable for a Switch game. Sword and Shield and Scarlet and Violet both have different types of problems that show that they clearly had too little time for what they *wanted* to be to come into full fruition. The scope the Switch commands is much higher now, and none of the Switch games have been up to par in that regard.
For Gen 10 specifically though, they can absolutely afford to wait another year at the very least to 2026. That's Pokemon's 30th anniversary, which makes it just the right time from a capitalism standpoint to release a new generation as part of an anniversary celebration. It gives the flagship Gen 10 game more time to be refined, which it needs if they don't want another SwSh or SV. It would also be a few years after the Switch successor presumably releases which gives Game Freak more time to get used to its assets so they can release a proper debut game for it. Horizons the anime also started so late it's gonna need that extra year, especially after Journeys suffered production issues towards the end of 2022.
The main issue would be padding out the filler games between, which we'll see how that goes. Mid-generation games by the B team are often fillers between new gen games.
However, the Switch is a completely different beast. It is pulling double duty as both a portable and a home console at once. Nintendo is no longer making two separate platforms for two separate markets, like the DS and Wii or the 3DS and Wii U. The Switch is the one and only, and the successor that has been in rumors is setting up to be similar as well. However, when it comes to scope, price, and whatnot, the home console aspect of the Switch reigns supreme. Games are priced strictly at console level, 60 USD and presumably 70 for the successor, and console scale games are the expectation.
Game Freak has always historically been a portable-scale game oriented developer, and Pokemon games were pretty much smaller in scope and being strictly on handhelds, were appreciated as small scope quirky handheld games. Unfortunately, being on the Switch means the handheld aspect asked for Pokemon to jump ship to the Switch itself, but the fact that it's also a home console means the expectations for a Switch game are much higher now than they were for the Game Boy, DS, and 3DS. The first seven generations of Pokemon were never compared to the likes of Mario, Zelda, or Metroid games on the corresponding home consoles. They were just what they were. Now, they're being compared to the likes of Mario Odyssey, BOTW+TOTK, Xenoblade, and whatnot, all these experiences that show off what the Switch can really do.
And the prevailing issue here is that it showed with SwSh, PLA, and SV altogether, but Pokemon games on the Switch have been incredibly below par with what is expected of even a Switch title, even if Switch games aren't the pinnacle of power compared to a PlayStation or Xbox game. Sword and Shield was ridiculed for its graphics, but it was also comically underwhelming in scope for a Switch game, especially one that is at standard console game price. Legends: Arceus has been panned for looking mediocre. Scarlet and Violet is more like a console scale Pokemon game compared to SwSh, and actually feels like one, but the technical shortcomings are well documented.
Which is to say, what worked historically for Pokemon since the very beginning is clearly not working here. What was considered acceptable for a Game Boy/DS/3DS game is considered unacceptable for a Switch game. Sword and Shield and Scarlet and Violet both have different types of problems that show that they clearly had too little time for what they *wanted* to be to come into full fruition. The scope the Switch commands is much higher now, and none of the Switch games have been up to par in that regard.
For Gen 10 specifically though, they can absolutely afford to wait another year at the very least to 2026. That's Pokemon's 30th anniversary, which makes it just the right time from a capitalism standpoint to release a new generation as part of an anniversary celebration. It gives the flagship Gen 10 game more time to be refined, which it needs if they don't want another SwSh or SV. It would also be a few years after the Switch successor presumably releases which gives Game Freak more time to get used to its assets so they can release a proper debut game for it. Horizons the anime also started so late it's gonna need that extra year, especially after Journeys suffered production issues towards the end of 2022.
The main issue would be padding out the filler games between, which we'll see how that goes. Mid-generation games by the B team are often fillers between new gen games.
I've definitely felt before that the endless drive for bigger and more realistic open worlds isn't leading to a better experience, and appreciated Nintendo for keeping on making games that sell themselves on the gameplay. I can't really say that now with how much Zelda and Pokemon have leaned into their respective open worlds. At some level, I feel like part of the blame is making something so easily comparable to the standard experience elsewhere.
The Raidons really don't belong in that group.
Miraidon hits harder (hadron engine makes its SpA base 195, before even applying the Electric-type boosts), is faster (base 135), and is overall bulkier (due to higher SpD) than Mega Rayquaza, + has the ability to Terastallize into any type it wants, and is currently in National Dex AG with the general opinion among leadership to be more broken than Mega Rayquaza. Koraidon is said to be dangerously close, and even better than Miraidon in the regular Anything Goes Metagame, while following many of the same traits due to similar abilities and stat distributions.
You see, here's the whole thing. Aside Gen 8 Zacian (which was very specifically made minmaxed anyway), all these mons have one thing in common with Mega Rayquaza: the ability to use the gen defining mechanic without needing to commit the item slot.
Mega Rayquaza basically shown that if you take a super mechanic and make it free to use, pokemon that are inherently already very good become potentially borked.
You can think of it in this way, if "Primal Kyogre" wasnt locked to Blue Orb, it'd be able to run Scarf or Specs or AV or anything like that. It'd have been banished to AG pretty quickly.
Mega Rayquaza was basically the first case of "elite becomes broken" due to being able to get all the benefit of a super mechanic without the downside. Which was then followed by how Dynamax and Terastal create the same scenario, where pokemon that are already insanely strong in their context become unmanageable due to raw power.
Miraidon and Koraidon are easily at the top of SV Ubers (nevermind the ND ban/consideration) even after they released all the Legendaries into the pool with Home. Miraidon just hits like a truck if Electric attacks can hit you, while having powered-up Draco Meteors to chunk the standard Ground types. Koraidon isn't quite as nuclear, but both of them share extremely high offenses with a "free" boost from their ability, one of the best speed tiers in the game much less in the usually slower Ubers meta, and demonstrate a versatility to run half-a-dozen sets each that all can put in work. They're skirting the line surprisingly close before you even consider Terastalization.
To be a bit fair, Mega Rayquaza was a more particular case because it has itemless access to a gimmick that was specifically designed around the item requirement, it outright broke a rule there. Most subsequent cases were abusers of already-generic mechanics, so they moreso underline the problems with Z-Moves or Dynamax inherently compared to Mega Rayquaza literally just being Rayquaza-but-more in terms of opportunity cost (since the next best stuff in the Primals didn't overlap with Megas for whatever reason). Occasionally I speculate if Mega Rayquaza would be AG broken if it had to hold the Meteorite as a stone, since as a primarily-offensive Pokemon that power boost was a factor in its obscenity, or if it would have been "tolerated" at a Suspect like Gen 8 Calyrex-Shadow.
My point was that Rayquaza breaking the "i need a item for the supermechanic" was basically a hint of what's to come (consequences-wise).
I was merely imagining a world where "Mega evolving" and "Z-moves" did not need a item slot. Pretty sure the AG banlist (as well as the Uber banlist) would have been much much bigger if Mega Garchomp was able to hold a scarf, or god forsake Mega Metagross/Mawile with a choice band, or if any given pokemon in gen 7 was able on a whim to throw a 140 BP nuke with no warning while also keeping their power boosting item or leftie.
? Explain, please
With the current Types we have, I personally would like to see these 3 Types getting Eeveelutions and than call it: Normal, Dragon, & Ghost.
The reason is completely "fanon" (not sure if I'm using the right word) on my part: I imagine these 3 being a trio representing 3 different "end routes" for an Eevee uninfluenced by outside elemental or mystical forces:
- Normal: The closest Eevee would have to a natural evolution. No manipulation of its DNA with stones, time of day, or knowing a certain Move; it's just a fully mature form of Eevee. No different than 90% of all other Pokemon who's evolution line is essentially their life cycle from youth to adult.
- Dragon: This represents an Eevee who has reached the apex; becoming best of the best. Ascending from being normal to being extraordinary & fantastical. Dragon-type has been used to represent that idea before so I'm using it here; besides, gotta complete having all Types which were categorized as Special between Gen I-IV having an Eeveelution.
- Ghost: Though no matter how normal or great you are, in the end we all share the same fate: death. For some it comes after a long life, for some it comes tragically soon; death does not judge, it only is. In my head the Ghost-type Eevee isn't a malicious spirit nor a psychopomp, but rather just a grim reminder of the finality of things.
All I'll say is about f***ing time.
They don't need to solve capitalism because they already won it. They're the de facto makers of one of, if not THE, most popular media franchise.
Can we FINALLY KILL the myth that GF "have to" keep pumping out games because otherwise they'll go broke, big meanie TPC/Nintendo is telling them to, or whatever dumb excuse people make up? Now that they themselves admitted they didn't need to do it, aka they were forcing themselves to do it, and now they're thinking about going back to having a few years before major releases?
Well Sonic is now riding high thanks to Frontiers so that analogy, at least at the moment, doesn't quite work.
... No, not really. Everything will now just be spaced out more. Inbetween major game releases they'll just have to do more filler merch with, btw, the Japanese store is FILLED TO BURSTING WITH. TPC don't need a constant stream of new games in order to make new merch, if anything having the major releases more spaced out means they'll have more time to plan, maybe even build up hype, instead of needing everything ready all at once.
I myself would be fine if they just made the routes their own unique micro "open worlds", each filled with their own interesting features and places to explore within it. And make Cities & Towns into explorable areas befitting of the city or town they're replicating. I don't need everything to be one large connected world, give me a series of playgrounds and explorative settlements.
Eh, don't worry, the Sonic fandom will cannibalize that victory. I should know...
But legit, Pokemon if they're not careful will be as ridiculed as Sonic was early 2000s. There are already a lot of fandom parallels, I don't want to see it leech out into common casual thought that furthers bias
TCPi/Nintendo actually aknowledging rushed releases hopefully will prevent that, but it won't mean much if sentiment is too sour to actually experiment. Even worse if they simply appease people that aren't actually buying the games. For now though, we'll see...
this is literally the most popular pokemon take of all-time, no cap
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
I'm not so certain. People have legit argued that yearly releases are good, actually, because the law of averages means a chance that we get a really good game every couple of years as opposed to a really good game once every 3 or 4 years
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Thanks, this has enlightened me by precisely 0%
"it was OU once so you're wrong and i'm right" is what the person meant with his very informative 1liner+screenshot.
Though if you're interested in actual context of why it was actually good in gen 3 and only in gen 3, I got you covered
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Thanks, figured it was something along those lines. Just drives me nuts when people say shit like "ah, but are you aware of the Klempaderkinus Theory?" and then resolutely fail to actually explain what it actually means
charizard was not considered good in 2015 idk what you're talking about
Yes, but are you aware of the Klempaderkinus Theory?
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Sir first you contest someone saying charizard was never good by showing a screenshot when Charizard was OU in gen 3, then you contest me linking a competitive history video saying that Charizard was legitimate in gen 3 OU saying it was not good
Are you ok? Need some help? Have you considered writing more than one liners as well while at it?
charizard was UUBL in 2015. charizard still has the same analysis it had in 2015 (albeit with a disclaimer).