also my post was entirely mechanical, I'd read Ryo as town otherwise.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
NOC Bigvivor Mafia Game Thread Day 5
- Thread starter Duskfall98
- Start date
I don't remember your role but I am just relaying the information in my role pm to the thread + it was confirmed by dle that the part about not being to target a person again is true, that is all
If he's town and refusing to claim he's throwing bc he gets voted for it
If he's scum and refusing to claim he's throwing bc he gets voted for it
IDK how you read that post LOL
Saw the phrase "regardless of alignment" as rather unnecessary.
If I just say "wow he's scum he's not claiming" he prob turtles further
tunelling me because Sam made him claim by backing me up is something to remember
BTW I’m gonna start a salt mine in postgame if there isn’t a role wiper in this game and all the people claiming to have been wiped are the scum team
Would be a fun gambit but not for us on the receiving end of it
It’s a possibility we can’t ignore
Anyway Vizh’ claim is definitely rough but the question is what use do scum have for that role?
Drookez what was your action last night bestie?
Would be a fun gambit but not for us on the receiving end of it
It’s a possibility we can’t ignore
Anyway Vizh’ claim is definitely rough but the question is what use do scum have for that role?
Drookez what was your action last night bestie?
So yeah I’m literally an idiot. I just told the challenge to Tommy before gamestate I wasn’t able to actually submit and lock in. I just told it to him later to send it. Phrasing bad
Mechanically:
CaffeineBoost
Da Letter El
Is any of this wrong
CaffeineBoost
- An uncced doctor
- Can remove one person per night from the vig's kill list
- In a neighbourhood with DLE and previously Clouds
- Unconfirmed, in fact his protection on Haruno was broken through
- His readiness to think there was also a scum doc gives me the ick
- A self-targeting JOAT (Texas said universal hooker)
- Can target self with all protective, killing, information, or miscellaneous actions used that night
- Was lover-pair with Clouds but survived last night despite Clouds dying, meaning he had protection or Clouds was blocked
- Was blocked last night having used all actions
Da Letter El
- Neighbouriser, confirmed by Caffeine and implied by Clouds, but NAI
- ToS-style JOAT apparently, where he just has to use all his actions and then he can use any of them again
- An encourager, meaning their target can use their action twice the next night
- An accelerator, meaning their actions can't be blocked (actually, why would Drookez not use this on me last night?)
- Also a self-protect
- Encourager is confirmed by Clouds but the other two abilities are unconfirmed. We don't know if accelerator affects the kill either, but it could do -- this could explain the occasional strongmanning, in fact. NAI
- Jailkeeper who informs their target if they were targeted, apparently
- Blocked Dyo when town organised Dyo's action, while Dyo is conftown
- Ryo has confirmed that he was informed of being targeted by Nuxl despite not being an information role, which is weird based on my last night
- Role confirmed to be in-game, but NAI
- Can target two players per night and they can't target each other for the rest of the game
- Unconfirmed; claimed to target me and Hal N1 and then had their role wiped
- Despite this, I didn't receive a notification that I can't target Hal. This can be explained by all my abilities being self-targets
- Unclear if this affects kill?
- NAI
- Targets one player and whoever they targeted that night they're banned from targeting for the rest of the game(??? is this correct)
- Notifies their targets
- Apparently wiped N2
- Confirmed by DLE, NAI
- Backup
- Backed up Haruno to verify Texas' claim
- Apparently wiped N3
- Confirmed by Texas, NAI
- Cupid that lasts for one day and night phase
- Confirmed by Celever and Clouds
- Unbalanced on scumteam since it's free 2-for-1 nks, also we haven't had any 2-for-1 nks yet
- shadowpea can you explain why you were unable to use this N2?
- Spiderz come back we miss you
- Redirector / lost mason with Haruno
- Confirmed by Ryo
- NAI
- Inherited the vig shot
- Targeted Dyo, he's dead so semi-confirmed
- Likely to be town, it'd be a little bastard to give maf an extra shot if our vig dies lol
- Challenge setter
- Confirmed because... we have challenges. With that said, Tommy might actually be coming up with the challenges and this could be a v interesting fake claim
- NAI
- A veteran??
- Looks pretty OP
- Game already has a lot of killpower
- Completely unproven and unprovable
- NAI
Is any of this wrong
Also what the hell
If they were built in by Tommy, why was there a day we didn’t have one?
What’s your reasoning behind DLE?
Likelihood of being a Strongman (under the assumption they are mafia):
Caff - An ok chance. Roles that give and take away life are somewhat common, and so combining a doc with a strongman isn't out of this world. But it's certainly not likely
Cel - An ok chance. Abilities are one-use, so having a passive that extends after abilities are used up makes sense for a mafia member. Would necessarily be lying, however, about at least one of his roles (redirecting all info abilities to himself), else his passive would be godfather.
DLE - A fairly strong chance. Neighbouriser sets up deepwolfing and strongman gets more powerful the later in the game it is. Neighbouriser doesn't have an active benefit to the mafia faction as a whole either, while strongman does.
Drookez - An extremely high chance. If his accelerator affects the kill, then he literally is the strongman.
Nuxl - A fairly weak chance. Jailkeeper is powerful enough as it is.
Psy - 1% chance. Role has been wiped and strongman kills have happened since then. Dependent on Psy/realiti/Ryo scumteam lying about a wiper.
Realiti - See Psy
Ryo - See Psy
shadow - A fairly weak chance. Mafia Cupid is powerful enough as it is.
Spiderz - N/A
Texas - An ok chance. Once he finds Haruno he's a redirector that would be dependent on a townie to agree with him. Having a useful passive would be valid on the side of this.
Sam - A very low chance. Inheriting the vig is kinda bonkers for scum.
Vizh - A fairly strong chance. Challenge setter is nigh useless for scum outside of engineering tasks that scum specifically are good at in order to secure extra votes in lategame. A powerful passive would be a must.
Whydon - An ok chance. A killpower-focused role works flavour-wise, where it kills anyone that targets him and also powers through protection. The mafia version of this role is Paranoid Gun Owner and is apparently more often town than scum but not exclusively town, and is considered an anti-town role in game design.
Caff - An ok chance. Roles that give and take away life are somewhat common, and so combining a doc with a strongman isn't out of this world. But it's certainly not likely
Cel - An ok chance. Abilities are one-use, so having a passive that extends after abilities are used up makes sense for a mafia member. Would necessarily be lying, however, about at least one of his roles (redirecting all info abilities to himself), else his passive would be godfather.
DLE - A fairly strong chance. Neighbouriser sets up deepwolfing and strongman gets more powerful the later in the game it is. Neighbouriser doesn't have an active benefit to the mafia faction as a whole either, while strongman does.
Drookez - An extremely high chance. If his accelerator affects the kill, then he literally is the strongman.
Nuxl - A fairly weak chance. Jailkeeper is powerful enough as it is.
Psy - 1% chance. Role has been wiped and strongman kills have happened since then. Dependent on Psy/realiti/Ryo scumteam lying about a wiper.
Realiti - See Psy
Ryo - See Psy
shadow - A fairly weak chance. Mafia Cupid is powerful enough as it is.
Spiderz - N/A
Texas - An ok chance. Once he finds Haruno he's a redirector that would be dependent on a townie to agree with him. Having a useful passive would be valid on the side of this.
Sam - A very low chance. Inheriting the vig is kinda bonkers for scum.
Vizh - A fairly strong chance. Challenge setter is nigh useless for scum outside of engineering tasks that scum specifically are good at in order to secure extra votes in lategame. A powerful passive would be a must.
Whydon - An ok chance. A killpower-focused role works flavour-wise, where it kills anyone that targets him and also powers through protection. The mafia version of this role is Paranoid Gun Owner and is apparently more often town than scum but not exclusively town, and is considered an anti-town role in game design.
I think I've talked myself into Drookez being a strongman so that's changed.
BTW I left suggest abilities off the recap bc A) Idr who has them and B) I acc think the likeliest thing is that someone with Suggest is scum. It makes the most sense for Vig to have to choose from the list intelligently, and if someone on their is definitely not mafia (bc mafia would not suggest themselves) it balances the vig role a little. It also gives more reason for Caff’s secondary ability.
Vizh is also un-cc'd suggest (4) so he is practically in my towncore now and we should never vote him here.
Otherwise I think you've pretty much got it, ty for putting this together and I'm going to think on things more from a mechanical perspective.
I think for right now all I'm sure about is that there are some people who I'm never down to shoot today. Off the top of my head, these are:
- US (duh)
- Caff (un-CC'd Doc)
- Texas (Haruno twin)
- Psy (N1 wipe + I'm trusting my soul read on him all the way here barring a mechanical reason to think otherwise)
- Ryo (confirmed role + I'm trusting my soul read on him)
- Vizh (un-CC'd Suggest(4))
That leaves 8 potential shots fmpov. I'm going to sort through their claims later but currently I lean towards not wanting to shoot DLE, Celever, Nuxl, or shadowpea (I'm coming around to their role being too broken if on mafia). So really the options I think are worth considering today are Drookez, Realiti, Spiderz, and Whydon. Spiderz' time before I just policy vote them is running thin, and I hate all of the rest of their claims / think the rest of their claims at best make no sense and at worst literally align with roles we know or suspect are on the mafia. I'd like thoughts from everybody on how I am sorting things.
Also the veteran claim from Whydon seems specifically designed to make me not want to Vig shot him, so that is extra sus. I think this is where I'm leaning as of now though getting rid of the probable strongman killer (Drookez) or a redirector (Realiti) has appeal as well (plus the veteran thing is probably a lie so it is arguably better to shoot not-Whydon with the vote then to have me just shoot Whydon tonight.
ALSO I need to ask the hosts how the Veteran role works. If the Veteran takes a shot at anyone who visits while Texas redirects off of me onto someone else scummy, could we potentially generate a free kill that way as well (i.e. kill Whydon AND kill someone else on the scummy list) tonight?
I have to now apply to live in a new apartment which is annoying so I'm going to be out for a few more hours. Let me know if I missed anything important.
- friendly hydra
I guess that makes sense, but I do know including me that’s 4/5 Suggets with Town.
Sam has 3, so I’m inclined to believe either he’s Town via just the pattern. And I don’t know the specifics of Caff’s ability. I know it can take them off but if he can’t see them, I don’t know how it functions.
good luck apartment-hunting fren, this all sounds quite good aside from assuming suggest is town.
Didn't see this post when making the above but I don't think this makes sense. Everyone on the suggest list could become the vigilante. Why would the mafia gain access to a second kill? That seems way too swingy and hard to balance. I'm not saying it's 100% impossible that Vizh is mafia (I was pretty sure he was mafia before he claimed) but mechanically I just don't buy that he is a slot we consider voting today.
However I am biased since I have bonus confirmation that the suggest roles are town, so it's obviously something to consider from other points of view.
- friendly hydra
Notably, if Caff is scum he could be lying about not seeing the list. It makes a lot more sense. Even if he can't see the list, it's a more scum-than-town role because he can just guess his scummiest partner was put on it.
But he's also uncc'd doc so this is lategame conversation
Ah, I must admit I forgot about the suggest inheriting vig element. It would be p bonkers not to be all-town then.
I would tinfoil that Suggest (5) would still be scum, rewarding scum for taking out all 4 other suggests. But Suggest (5) is dead so.
Has Spiderz claimed yet?
If not, could it be possible he has a Suggest 6, which could fit with that tinfoil theory?