Not asking for a rise or a fall, but im just wondering why fini has risen so much lately
I just wanted to say that while i am all in for an rise (I've actually used it quite a bit) I wanted to say that ho screen teams benefit far more from koko and grimm support than alolatales. They can both keep rocks off your own side, to help with rock weak ho mons like cloy, and while they can't set screens in one turn, alolatales actually tends to struggle getting veil up, because it lacks koko's speed tier or grimm's ability, struggling against scizor/scarf kart, lele counterleads. While encore and hypnosis are nice, grimms movepool far outclasses it, and koko can provide invaluable terrain support for the likes of lucha and blaze. Not keeping rocks off the field also means alolatales will be taking 25% every time its switched in, meaning it can't come in as often as other screen setters. Since taunt is such a good move to have on ho leads, the only situation I find myself preferring alolatales is in fact to enable zolt, or when hail support is necessary to secure ko's (although then why wouldn't you just run hazards).i feel very strongly about rising arctozolt & alolatales. ill start off with alolatales since its more obvious then zolt. alolatales has proven to be a very solid screen setter on ho teams that run screens with no hazards. theres lots of reasons for this. setting screens on one turn is super helpful so you dont get put into scenarios where u have to pick and choose what screen you want on the odd occasion like koko and grimm. alolatales has access to to which can act like a weaker form of rocks. this is super helpful to break sturdy on skarm, break sashes, break multiscale and just in general to put things in range of your ho mons. alola tales also has a great utility movepool in encore and hypnosis which can help your ho mons set up. I think this is a no brainer at the moment.
Checks many pokemon like urshifu-r, weavile, dragapult, heatran. misty surge is such a great ability to prevent status to allow stuff like weavile to set up on slowbro, without risking a scald burn. Misty surge also allows you to play around dragault easier since its dragon moves are halved in base power making it much easier to pivot into dragapult, garchomp, and kyurem. Also it is a great scarfer with trick to cripple many pokemon that are common switch ins such as toxapex, ferrothorn, slowking, and clefableNot asking for a rise or a fall, but im just wondering why fini has risen so much lately
If you get rocks up (easy assuming they have to set up weather with Ninetales...Or idk, Vanilluxe), Rillaboom kills after Rocks for examplelook at your teambuilder and see how many can deal with arctozolt well
:)
FWIW- I decided to do this with my teambuilder- most of the recent teams (since Zama suspect) I have lose hard to it, and the one team that doesn't has Scizor as it's main means of dealing with it which is uh not ideal
HDB doesn't make it too weak. Bolt Beak is just naturally that good, and I prefer Boots over Life Orb for the exact reasons you mentioned above; every bit of chip damage you can prevent is crucial for Arctozolt to put in work. Alolatale's Veil support helps in that regard as well.If you get rocks up (easy assuming they have to set up weather with Ninetales...Or idk, Vanilluxe), Rillaboom kills after Rocks for example
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt in Grassy Terrain: 261-307 (81.3 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Ig you can argue the hdb, but wouldn't that make it too weak? Also doesn't Ferrothorn with either BP o GB 1v1? I know you can switch up to Swampert but hails makes lefties not stopping cheap damage, but doesn't for example Kyurem destroy both of them with a Draco Meteor? And this is all assuming you are easily switching a mon with (on the assumption you're using boots so no rocks):
- No recovery move
- No inmunities
- Weak to fire, fighting and ground, resisting only Flying, electric and ice itself
Idk, but on paper and practice I haven't found any problem vs Hail on the ladder. Maybe I'm just not seeing something
I'll try your set and Hail to see if you're then :DHDB doesn't make it too weak. Bolt Beak is just naturally that good, and I prefer Boots over Life Orb for the exact reasons you mentioned above; every bit of chip damage you can prevent is crucial for Arctozolt to put in work. Alolatale's Veil support helps in that regard as well.
Also, bear in mind that nobody's asking Zolt to 6-0 every game; it will struggle with Ferrothorn and Swampert etc. but it's up to the teammates to handle those. And it can slot Low Kick and Freeze-Dry to snipe those two specific pokemon once they're weakened.
My personal favorite set is Adamant HDB 252/252 with Bolt Beak/Icicle Crash/Low Kick/Substitute. Sub really helps Zolt out, it can save you against a priority move and makes it harder for opponents to stall out Hail turns.
see: swap inIf you get rocks up (easy assuming they have to set up weather with Ninetales...Or idk, Vanilluxe), Rillaboom kills after Rocks for example
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt in Grassy Terrain: 261-307 (81.3 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Ig you can argue the hdb, but wouldn't that make it too weak? Also doesn't Ferrothorn with either BP o GB 1v1? I know you can switch up to Swampert but hails makes lefties not stopping cheap damage, but doesn't for example Kyurem destroy both of them with a Draco Meteor? And this is all assuming you are easily switching a mon with (on the assumption you're using boots so no rocks):
- No recovery move
- No inmunities
- Weak to fire, fighting and ground, resisting only Flying, electric and ice itself
Idk, but on paper and practice I haven't found any problem vs Hail on the ladder. Maybe I'm just not seeing something
I don't care much about the vagaries of the current OU VR. Especially in a youngish metagame, the VR can be very trend dependent, and also whether something is say a B vs B+ or A- vs A rank pokemon isn't very important to me.
Toxtricity C -> C-/UR
Tapu Fini has risen alot as it covers alot of metagame staples mostly Urshifu-R, Weavile, and Heatran, which are all highly used and recently have risen drastically in their Viability as well, their usage in ladder- and more importantly tour-games clearly has shown that these Pokemon are one of the top threats with Urshifu-R being an extremely good wallbreaker with its Choice Band set and two great spamable attacks in Close Combat and Surging Strikes, being able to U-turn out of bad matchups like Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu is a big plus for it, whereas Weavile cemented itself as one of the most terrifying Pokemon at the moment with a great speed tier putting it above Pokemon such as Tornadus-T is a great plus for it too, its great natural speed alongside a great typing in dark/ice means it has two very strong and by most of the tier unreisted STAB combination, making Tapu Fini one of the best checks to it and the aforementioned Urshifu-R.Not asking for a rise or a fall, but im just wondering why fini has risen so much lately
check monke, check fire moth, check origami plane, check moist man, check fire frog, heal bell support good, hdb good, multiscale strong, dd strong = goodWhy is dnite A
The Toxtricity actually got 2 KO's: Tornadus-T from full and picking off Tapu Koko, while also doing a large amount of damage throughout the game which pressured a lot of Pokemon and making them not want to switch in Toxtricity definitely deserves it's ranking.the damage output was not insane that game, it got 1 ko and that was on a heavily chipped tapu koko.
Heavy Duty Boots. I'm guessing the logic for the drop is that why would I run niche hazard control, which is the main use of Magic Bounce, when I could just use Boots and not have a liability in situations that aren't involving hazards.Why the drop for both Magic Bouncers?
Hatterene mostly uses Magic bounce as a pseudo magic guard because its lack of recovery, common weaknesses, and losing MUs vs most of the tier's rockers over time makes it fairly poor at abusing it for the purpose of deterring hazards. unfortunately for Hatterene, its an incredibly mediocre pokemon that still demands tons of support to make up for its losing MUs vs every steel but Ferrothorn, aforementioned lack of recovery beyond the inconsistent Dkiss, non existent defensive utility despite being reasonably fat, hatred of Knock off, and faces heavy competition with borderline objectively better wincons in Tapu Fini, Reuniclus, and Clefable.Why the drop for both Magic Bouncers?
Hate to be the party pooper, but to nom an unranked mon, you need to provide replays showing it performing in a battle. I'm actually saying this because I really like mienshao and would want to see how best to use it in OU, so I can't wait to see the specific set used
UR > C
Mienshao's Life Orb and Regenerator offensive pivot set is really solid, capable of constantly forcing chip damage with Knock Off without fear of lasting Rocky Helmet chip on the likes of Skarmory or Corviknight. Even would be checks such as Landorus slowly get worn down over the course of a game, and STAB High Jump Kick provides a strong option to continuously pressure it once its item is removed and Knock Off starts hitting like a wet bag. Speaking of High Jump Kick, it 2HKOs Corviknight on the switch-in, greatly discouraging the opponent's use of it to check Mienshao, maintaining Rocks on the field, and adding to the chip damage inflicted on Landorus-T as the game progresses. The combination of U-Turn and Knock Off as we all know provides incredible flexibility for a pivot (especially one with Regenerator to trivialize chip damage), the latter of which strongly discouraging Dragapult from trying to come in on High Jump Kick. High Jump Kick is preferred over Close Combat due to the guaranteed 2HKO on incoming Corviknight and its higher PP aiding in spam in light of Corviknight's Pressure and Landorus's ability to repeatedly switch in; moreover, Regenerator greatly mitigates the risk of missing. Finally, Poison Jab as a coverage option has a favorable roll for a 2HKO versus Tapu Fini on the switch in with Stealth Rock up, and 2HKOs Clefable after minimal chip damage, though if this is not deemed necessary, Stone Edge can be used to hit Zapdos and Dragonite. All in all, Mienshao is difficult to switch into, has Regenerator to facilitate a longevity typically uncommon in offensive pivots, softens physical checks to accommodate other breakers like Kartana and Weavile, and has multiple options to exploit switch-ins. It pairs well with the likes of Kyurem and Tapu Lele who can break past Toxapex for it and provide indiscriminate chip damage with Ice Beam and Psychic/Moonblast respectivelyI to put things in range of High Jump Kick. t's biggest weakness is its lack of immediate breaking power and frailty; HJK relies on chip damage to ensure KOs and its frailty leaves it vulnerable to even mildly powerful attacks. It also faces significant competition and is arguably outclassed in its role by Urshifu-R, who provides a trivially worse Speed tier and lack of longevity/susceptibility to Rocky Helmet in exchange for more power and priority in Aqua Jet. Personally I feel like it deserves a higher ranking than my proposed C, but this seems like a good starting point to open up more discussion.
Thanks for the reminder, attached a few that happened to be on my saved replays but will try and get some more using High Jump Kick specifically.Hate to be the party pooper, but to nom an unranked mon, you need to provide replays showing it performing in a battle. I'm actually saying this because I really like mienshao and would want to see how best to use it in OU, so I can't wait to see the specific set used