Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

[EonX]

Kinda have to agree with Agent Gibbs on AV Hariyama. While it certainly is not the best user of the move, it's also far from terrible either. The main issue I have with it is that your main STAB is Close Combat. This, more than anything, is the main issue I have with it. Obviously, you can switch out to restore the defense drops, so this mitigates the problem to an extent. That said, most other AV users such as Escavalier, Druddigon, and Meloetta don't have this issue, which allows them to stay in on multiple special attackers in a row while utilizing their STAB moves should they not carry super effective moves.

As for the weather discussion, I have used a rain team, and it's stupid easy to use. While the loss of Toxicroak and Raikou hurts, there's one Pokemon that can fuse them together; Heliolisk. Like Toxicroak, Heliolisk has Dry Skin, and like Raikou, it can spam 100% accurate Thunders. The biggest kicker for Heliolisk on a rain team is its coverage. Normally very redundant, Water / Grass coverage is an absolute godsend for rain teams as it allows Heliolisk to cut down Rhyperior and Gastrodon at the same time! And that brings me to something I want to discuss with the recent shifts: Heliolisk

​

Heliolisk was previously largely overshadowed by Raikou. However, with Kou now gone, Heliolisk finally gets a chance to shine. With solid Speed and Special Attack, Heliolisk looks like your prototypical Electric-type. However, what sets it apart is the odd, but good coverage it gets. Surf and Grass Knot are rarely seen as coverage moves for Electric-types, but Heliolisk gets both to dump about any Ground-type in the tier. That's not where it ends though. Heliolisk is capable of running Life Orb and Choice Scarf sets quite effectively. Access to Thunder and Dry Skin also means Heliolisk is likely going to be the first addition to a rain team looking for a Thunder spammer, and it even gets a boost to Surf on such teams. While Heliolisk may be frail af and not have the strongest attacks, I feel it is something that really deserves some attention now that its main competition is gone. So what have you guys tried out on Heliolisk? Is there a set I may have missed out on? What are good teammates for this guy?

 

[Typhlito]

I always liked heliolisk. Its ability to work in both sun and rain teams lets it work with a variety of pokemon. I never tried the combination yet, but I think that heliolisk would work especially well with Moltres. It can work with most fire types to soak up any water type move aiming their way however with moltres, earthquake would not be as big of an issue. While heliolisk has a cool offensive movepool, it struggles to get passed bulky grass types. Moltres can nail any grass type that tries to switch into heliolisk's atacks. Both pokemon can work in either a sun team with fire blast and heliolisk's solar power or in a rain team with a strong hurricane and stab thunders. Both pokemon are able to volt turn so momentum can be gained that way. Rocks would definitely be an issue though so a defogger or a durable spinner would be very helpful. Something to handle fast fighting types that carry stone edge would be nice as well.

 

[Golemman]

Sorry, I'm a bit calc-crazy as some might know, so I decided to work on this Hariyama set. I switched the defensive ev's and worked with the meta's special attackers. Hope they help!

Moltres

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 99-118 (20.1 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 398-471 (80.8 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Moltres: 460-544 (142.8 - 168.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Delphox

252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psychic vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 307-361 (62.3 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 94-110 (19.1 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 276-326 (94.5 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Sceptile

252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 208-246 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 268-316 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Heliolisk

252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunder vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 181-214 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heliolisk: 636-750 (239 - 281.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Slowking

4 SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 170-204 (34.5 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 246-290 (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Typhlosion

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama in Sun: 214-253 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 258-304 (86.5 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Clawitzer

252+ SpA Life Orb Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 175-207 (35.5 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clawitzer: 211-249 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Exploud

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 258-304 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Exploud: 548-648 (133 - 157.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Tornadus

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 398-471 (80.8 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 282-332 (94 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Yanmega

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 283-335 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 476-564 (151.5 - 179.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Samurott (a newly brought up mon)

252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 199-234 (40.4 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

152+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Agent Gibbs good point (ugh now I have to redo them) but I'm just going off of Jonater 's posted set that's being discussed

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Quick note: if you're going to run Assault Vest Hariyama (or any Hariyama set, for that matter), you should invest in the defenses before investing in HP. This ends up being more efficient due to Hariyama's enormous HP stat compared to its low defensive stats.

 

[Evilfaic]

Quick note: if you're going to run Assault Vest Hariyama (or any Hariyama set, for that matter), you should invest in the defenses before investing in HP. This ends up being more efficient due to Hariyama's enormous HP stat compared to its low defensive stats.

At least someone agrees with me :P

 

[skies]

What are some good cores that involve Emboar? I've been thinking for a while and I am lacking anything so far.

 

[Golemman]

At least someone agrees with me :P

*loud throat clearing* um ok

Chesnaught I run:
Emboar with CB
252At 252Spe Adamant
Flare blitz
Hammer arm
sucker punch
wild charge/Head smash
This wall breaker is pretty awesome (please release Reckless O_O ). Obviously, a good core with this set is to have a special attacker and a utility mon. FWG is classic, pretty much because it works. Alomomola can pivot, inflict status and wish-pass, lanturn for heal bell and a slow volt switch, Gastrodon, Slowking, or in place of this you can run a sticky web setter to let emboar destroy fast threats like Cobalion and stuff without needing to take a hit. As for a special attacker, going with the FWG core you have options like Sceptile, Tangrowth, (CM) Virizion, Ludicolo, Shiftry, or Shaymin ;_; not anymore. Of course, there are other typed special attackers who can form a solid offensive core, as long as they hit emboar's resists/problem mons (bulky waters like Jellicent, rhyperior, Altaria [ps anyone have a good set for it?] and others). Scrappy Exploud, Clawitzer, and especially Sceptile deal with these pretty well.

Overall, I would recommend Emboar, Sceptile/Leavanny, and Alomomola/Slowking.

 

[skies]

I actually specifically meant offensive partners for this set:
Emboar @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 32 HP / 152 Atk / 4 Def / 148 SAtk / 172 Spd
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Superpower
- Sucker Punch

 

[Punchshroom]

I actually specifically meant offensive partners for this set:
Emboar @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 32 HP / 152 Atk / 4 Def / 148 SAtk / 172 Spd
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Superpower
- Sucker Punch

Most U-turn users and Volt Switchers, such as Swellow, Heliolisk, and Clawitzer, certainly enjoy having this wallbreaking support, since their VoltTurning shenanigans have less of an impact on bulkier teams. In turn, the ability to bring Emboar into battle safely benefits Emboar, who otherwise dislikes switching into even resisted moves and take excessive damage before it starts to attack.

 

[EonX]

I actually specifically meant offensive partners for this set:
Emboar @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 32 HP / 152 Atk / 4 Def / 148 SAtk / 172 Spd
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Superpower
- Sucker Punch

A little intrigued at what those EVs do exactly, but I remember using mixed Emboar on my Eagle Sparks team from BW RU. While I'm not sure if the same types of teammates can work in XY, I see this as great partners for Swellow and Braviary in particular considering Emboar completely dumps Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon to free up Swellow or Scarf Braviary for a final sweep. One thing I would change is the use of a Rash nature to have a bit of a better time when it comes to switching into Escavalier (Drill Run sucks either way though)

 

[New Breed]

Hi I should post more I'm really lazy..

Doublade (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak- Sacred Sword / Shadow Claw

So this is the Doublade set I've been running, at first I was running 0 speed and Gryo Ball but after a few matches I realised the metagame is really slow atm with Escavalier, Slowking and such everywhere. Most people tend to try and check Doublade with slower things like Rhyperior and this set allows you to outspeed Rhyperior and beat it 1v1 if you SD on the switch in, you can also OHKO Rhyperior after a bit of prior damage (+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 306-360 (70.5 - 82.9%)). Iron Head also has the added benefit of doing big damage to things like Aromatisse which you otherwise can't touch.Sacred Sword is nice to have for coverage and is extremely useful for hitting Dark types on the switchin but Shadow Claw is also a solid option as a more reliable Ghost STAB and is nice if you don't have any problems with Normal types.


I have been running this on an offensive spike stack team with Froslass and its been pretty effective at blocking spin from the ten thousand shitty av hitmonchan/tops on the ladder and you can also just tank 2 Knock Off's from LO Hitmonlee.

:]

 

[astromund]

I've been running that same set paired up with Medicham and Exploud. The three of them make an amazingly hard-hitting offensive core, and their typings complement each other rather nicely.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Hi I should post more I'm really lazy..

Doublade (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak- Sacred Sword / Shadow Claw

So this is the Doublade set I've been running, at first I was running 0 speed and Gryo Ball but after a few matches I realised the metagame is really slow atm with Escavalier, Slowking and such everywhere. Most people tend to try and check Doublade with slower things like Rhyperior and this set allows you to outspeed Rhyperior and beat it 1v1 if you SD on the switch in, you can also OHKO Rhyperior after a bit of prior damage (+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 306-360 (70.5 - 82.9%)). Iron Head also has the added benefit of doing big damage to things like Aromatisse which you otherwise can't touch.Sacred Sword is nice to have for coverage and is extremely useful for hitting Dark types on the switchin but Shadow Claw is also a solid option as a more reliable Ghost STAB and is nice if you don't have any problems with Normal types.


I have been running this on an offensive spike stack team with Froslass and its been pretty effective at blocking spin from the ten thousand shitty av hitmonchan/tops on the ladder and you can also just tank 2 Knock Off's from LO Hitmonlee.

:]

I've faced you twice on the ladder as far as I know (with the team in my signature) and I can for sure say that the Doublade gave me issues. It wasn't the main thing, tho... The damn Rhyp of yours djeez.

But ye, I've wanted to try Doublade myself, but I'm not sure what kinda teams he fits best on. I suck at offense in this meta, but I'm sure one could make a variant of Doublade for defensive teams in one way or another.

 

[Expulso]

A little intrigued at what those EVs do exactly, but I remember using mixed Emboar on my Eagle Sparks team from BW RU. While I'm not sure if the same types of teammates can work in XY, I see this as great partners for Swellow and Braviary in particular considering Emboar completely dumps Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon to free up Swellow or Scarf Braviary for a final sweep. One thing I would change is the use of a Rash nature to have a bit of a better time when it comes to switching into Escavalier (Drill Run sucks either way though)

Chesnaught is using my set; I EV'd that to outspeed Gligar and 2HKO it with Fire Blast, OHKO Rhyperior with Grass Knot, and OHKO Delphox with Sucker Punch.

 

[The Lucky Absol]

For the weather discussion from earlier, I built a weather team fairly quickly but as of now it seems to do the job.
Here it is if you want it. http://pastebin.com/YLZMD0RZ [Edit] (That Alomomola should have scald and not protect)
Its not perfect, but it works.

Anyways, I believe that rain is the strongest weather type to base a team around in RU. Although sun and sand are great weather conditions in their own regards, there aren't too many abusers for them in this low of a tier. Offensively, Sun has Sawsbuck and Victreebel, while sand has Stoutland and that's about it. I know there are more chlorophyll users and sand rush/force users in this low tier, but when you compare them to what rain teams have at their disposal, they don't seem as useful.

Here is a somewhat short list of some of the pokemon I feel could be great members of a rain team, with a short bit of explanation why.

Hide

Offensive sweepers
Kabutops
This thing is a monster, life orb+rain boosted waterfall+Swift Swim turns it into a devastating sweeper. Should always be considered for a rain team.

Heliolisk
Dry skin, perfect accuracy thunder, and a boosted surf make this a fantastic special attacker.

Moltres
Although it may seem unusual to have a fire type on a rain team, what shouldn't be overlooked is the perfect accuracy hurricanes it can dish out. It is also a very solid 'mon outside of the rain.

Tornadus
Hurricane+Prankster rain dance. That is all.

Defensive/Support
Gastrodon
The ground typing gives it an immunity to electric attacks, this is key for any rain team.

Alomomomomomomomola
Wish and that fantastic HP stat help any weakened pokemon on your team. Also, it appreciates the rain boosted scald.

Jellicent
Great defensive typing and the rain boosted scald make this a solid wall.

Other pokemon that benefit from the rain
Steel types, especially Escavalier, Durant, and Ferroseed.
Tangrowth (though it doesn't like the perfect accuracy hurricanes)
Vivillon
Any other Hurricane user
Castform

I know I don't have everything that can benefit from rain, but these are the pokemon I have worked with so far. Other good choices that I have yet to test out include Barbaracle, Clawitzer, and Lord Helix Omastar.

 

[viol and bass]

One intriguing RU mon that I haven't seen a lot on the ladder and haven't seen much discussion on is Virizion. Its speed is fantastic and its special defense is amazingly high (allowing it to, for instance, check most of the Electric-types in the tier because it doesn't give a shit about HP ice), and while an SD set looks nice due to Virizion's ability, I believe it kind of squanders Virizion's defensive potential and trades it for mediocre power. I think Calm Mind is the way to go, because with Virizion's titanic special defense, it can easily tank super-effective special hits after a Calm Mind and heal with Giga Drain, so I'm gonna talk about that. There are a few problems with Virizion, and the first is that its stab combo is resisted by SUCH a wide variety of things. Most Poison-types, Flying-types, and Bug-types resist Fighting AND Grass. You can deal with two of those with a Rock move, but it's still very difficult to get past Poison-types such as Amoonguss, which is just a dead stop for most Virizion sets. But on the other hand, after a Calm Mind, Virizion takes relatively little from Sludge Bomb and could theoretically set up on Amoonguss with a bulky Calm Mind set.

4 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Virizion: 92-110 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Maybe? I think the second-biggest problem for Virizion is the numerous extremely good Psychic-types, many extremely bulky and with reliable recovery, in the tier. Psyshock just blows for Virizion. Calm Minders like Cresselia and Reuniclus can set up alongside Virizion and hit it on its weaker side, and they're very difficult to wear down, taking very little from Virizion's Giga Drain.

So whaddaya you guys think? How do you deal with these very large weaknesses on what would otherwise be an incredibly good mon? One good pretty obvious partner that I've found is AV Escavalier, since it's one of the few things that deals effectively with these psychics and also is a perfect switch-in to non-HP fire Amoonguss.

 

[g]

Posting here a very effective balanced core i've been using recently. It does really well against common threats in the metagame (even Tornadus if Slowking remains healthy).

Amoonguss

Hide

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SDef
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Foul Play / Stun Spore

Amoonguss is an amazing pokemon right now. It switches into all grass and water types (bar slowking) without a coff and its good defensive stats and ability make him an awesome pivot and "scout" against a lot of weak attackers. Spore is one of the best moves in the game and it is very difficult to stop as any pokemon immune to hit can't do much back to Amoonguss. Foul Play is the preferred option in the last slot as it hits Escavalier harder than any move in the mushroom's arsenal (even than HP Fire) scoring a guaranteed 3HKO after rocks and, as Amoonguss is naturally faster if it has taken a bit of prior damage Amoonguss can 2HKO as it tries to take the Spore. Foul Play also hits a rising threat, Doublade for good damage and OHKOes Mega Banette even without Rocks. Regenerator is so good. Really.

Rhyperior

Hide

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SDef
Impish / Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast / Fire Punch
- Roar

Rhyperior is another important Pokemon. It takes on the Flying and Fire types that trouble Amonguss and sets up rock to punish every switch in. Roar>Dragon Tail because Cresselia is a major pain for every defensive core and not many Taunt users can freely do that against Rhyperior (think Drapion, Cobalion and Skuntank). Also 100% accuracy.
Rhyperior is an amazing tank able to take ridicolously strong physical hits (Jolly LO Reckless HJK from Hitmonlee) even without investment and having respectable special bulk along with sky high attack. Without Raikou and with Heliolisk and Rotom Mow gaining popularity it is not that effective in checking Electric types but there is Amoonguss for that.
Fire Punch is usable because fuck escavalier.

Slowking

Hide

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Psychic / Psyshok
- Grass Knot
- Fire Blast

Slowking is the third member of the core. Arguably the best AV user in the tier (bar Escavalier) it gives me an answer to dangerous wallbreakers such as Delphox and Emboar (only the scarf set uses Wild Charge luckily) and has a lot of firepower and coverage. Scald and Psyshok are basic stabs that hit a lot of pokemon hard, Fire Blast roasts escavalier and Offensive Grass types and Grass Knot hits common switch-ins (such as gastrodon) hard. Regenerator and nice sinergy with Amonguss and Rhyperior make him an excellent glue taking on the few pokemons the rest of the core can't.

The core is a bit weak to Durant and Banded Escavalier as they can OHKO or 2HKO every single member so a scarf fire type like Moltres or Emboar is a good option to revenge kill it. Mega Banette and Cobalion work as well checking them both in virtue to Will o Wisp and their typing respectively.

Feel free to test it and give suggestions!

 

[EonX]

Getting to some things.

Virizion: I'm a big fan of this thing. About the only thing really holding her back (along with about half of the fucking tier) is Tornadus. Otherwise, Virizion is very cool. The reason I like SD more than Calm Mind is that you instantly can boost to +2. Add to that the fact you're hitting most physical walls for neutral or super effective damage and benefitting from Knock Off. Lum Berry ensures Virizion can still come in on bulky Waters spamming Scald. I generally treat Close Combat like I do with Draco Meteor with Lati@s up in OU; don't use it until I absolutely need it for the power, so I can keep Virizion's special bulk in tact for as long as possible. Not saying Calm Mind isn't viable; it certainly is since Giga Drain allows the use of Life Orb. I just prefer the flexibility of SD a bit more. I've used Virizion on a couple of different teams and even helped someone build a team with her as well. I find Delphox and Sharpedo to be a great core to build around Virizion. Not only does it create the classic FWG core, but it also makes a unique Dark-Fighting-Psychic core which has similar strengths to the more traditional FWG core.

As for your core galbia , I find it kinda difficult to use Scarf Moltres as I don't see a lot of room for hazard control on your team except for maybe LO Hitmonlee which can double up as a wallbreaker and spinner thanks to its powerful Knock Off screwing with opposing Ghost-types.

 

[Vratix]

One intriguing RU mon that I haven't seen a lot on the ladder and haven't seen much discussion on is Virizion. Its speed is fantastic and its special defense is amazingly high ...

I actually had some pretty similar thoughts to this recently but I arrived at the same conclusions you did about its glaring shortcomings. The problem isn't that Virizion is bad, it's that it isn't the best choice for most of the roles it can fill.

It has unremarkable offensive typing for the tier - fighting is solid but isn't really complemented well by grass. It's SD sets are overshadowed by Cobalion, who can afford to run substitute instead of desperately needing Stone Edge or Gallade who can recover some HP with Drain Punch (even if it is less bulky). Non SD sets can't pick up momentum like Cobalion, don't have the threat levels of Hitmonlee, has worse coverage that Emboar (who is also a solid choice for going mixed, which Virizion really isn't), isn't as good a choice user as Medicham...

It wishes it had the support options of Ammonguss or Gourgheist.

As a special attacker, it's okay... Nobody really likes using Focus Miss as their STAB option. It lets you take hits like a monster but there are a ton of things that come in safely (most notably, frickin Tornadus but also delphox, escavalier, brokenmoth, reuniclus, yanmega, moltres, cresselia, etc).


Now, don't get me wrong: it isn't bad, per se. This just isn't the tier for it to shine.

 

[Turtleye]

Posting here a very effective balanced core i've been using recently. It does really well against common threats in the metagame (even Tornadus if Slowking remains healthy).

Amoonguss

Hide

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SDef
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Foul Play / Stun Spore

Amoonguss is an amazing pokemon right now. It switches into all grass and water types (bar slowking) without a coff and its good defensive stats and ability make him an awesome pivot and "scout" against a lot of weak attackers. Spore is one of the best moves in the game and it is very difficult to stop as any pokemon immune to hit can't do much back to Amoonguss. Foul Play is the preferred option in the last slot as it hits Escavalier harder than any move in the mushroom's arsenal (even than HP Fire) scoring a guaranteed 3HKO after rocks and, as Amoonguss is naturally faster if it has taken a bit of prior damage Amoonguss can 2HKO as it tries to take the Spore. Foul Play also hits a rising threat, Doublade for good damage and OHKOes Mega Banette even without Rocks. Regenerator is so good. Really.

Rhyperior

Hide

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SDef
Impish / Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast / Fire Punch
- Roar

Rhyperior is another important Pokemon. It takes on the Flying and Fire types that trouble Amonguss and sets up rock to punish every switch in. Roar>Dragon Tail because Cresselia is a major pain for every defensive core and not many Taunt users can freely do that against Rhyperior (think Drapion, Cobalion and Skuntank). Also 100% accuracy.
Rhyperior is an amazing tank able to take ridicolously strong physical hits (Jolly LO Reckless HJK from Hitmonlee) even without investment and having respectable special bulk along with sky high attack. Without Raikou and with Heliolisk and Rotom Mow gaining popularity it is not that effective in checking Electric types but there is Amoonguss for that.
Fire Punch is usable because fuck escavalier.

Slowking

Hide

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Psychic / Psyshok
- Grass Knot
- Fire Blast

Slowking is the third member of the core. Arguably the best AV user in the tier (bar Escavalier) it gives me an answer to dangerous wallbreakers such as Delphox and Emboar (only the scarf set uses Wild Charge luckily) and has a lot of firepower and coverage. Scald and Psyshok are basic stabs that hit a lot of pokemon hard, Fire Blast roasts escavalier and Offensive Grass types and Grass Knot hits common switch-ins (such as gastrodon) hard. Regenerator and nice sinergy with Amonguss and Rhyperior make him an excellent glue taking on the few pokemons the rest of the core can't.

The core is a bit weak to Durant and Banded Escavalier as they can OHKO or 2HKO every single member so a scarf fire type like Moltres or Emboar is a good option to revenge kill it. Mega Banette and Cobalion work as well checking them both in virtue to Will o Wisp and their typing respectively.

Feel free to test it and give suggestions!

Yea I disagree about running Foul Play on Amoonguss over HP Fire. Hp Fire is a OHKO, even uninvested, while Foul Play fails to 2HKO it. Also Foul Play vs. AV Esca isn't much damage loss anyway.

4 SpA Amoonguss Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 100-120 (29 - 34.8%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO
0- Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 113-133 (32.8 - 38.6%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO
Okay it gives a much larger chance to 3HKO but you won't be staying in for more than two turns anyway

And some Escavalier don't even run AV, but they run CB for wallbreaking power, in which case:

4 SpA Amoonguss Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Escavalier: 148-176 (43 - 51.1%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO

Aside from that it looks like a really solid core, I can see Slowking+Amoonguss be extremely annoying with regenerator, and Rhyperior patches up the few holes left. Pretty good example on how defensive teams look right now.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Rain

You should add in Liepard as a possible rain inducer. With Liepard, you can drop the Damp Rock from Torn onto Pard, allowing your Torn to hit hard with Life Orb.
Just my 97 ques.

 

[g]

Yea I disagree about running Foul Play on Amoonguss over HP Fire. Hp Fire is a OHKO, even uninvested, while Foul Play fails to 2HKO it. Also Foul Play vs. AV Esca isn't much damage loss anyway.

4 SpA Amoonguss Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 100-120 (29 - 34.8%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO
0- Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 113-133 (32.8 - 38.6%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO
Okay it gives a much larger chance to 3HKO but you won't be staying in for more than two turns anyway

And some Escavalier don't even run AV, but they run CB for wallbreaking power, in which case:

4 SpA Amoonguss Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Escavalier: 148-176 (43 - 51.1%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO

Aside from that it looks like a really solid core, I can see Slowking+Amoonguss be extremely annoying with regenerator, and Rhyperior patches up the few holes left. Pretty good example on how defensive teams look right now.

Foul Play has a lot of use. It OHKOes Mega Banette, it is the strongest move against Druddigon, Delphox (2hko with rocks), Meloetta, Braviary (2hko with rocks) and Gallade(2hko with rocks) while HP Fire only hits Durant and CB Escavalier harder. These are mons without reliable recovery (bar braviary i guess) you can hit really hard as they tend to switch into Amoonguss a lot so Foul Play is the best option

 

[Turtleye]

Foul Play has a lot of use. It OHKOes Mega Banette, it is the strongest move against Druddigon, Delphox (2hko with rocks), Meloetta, Braviary (2hko with rocks) and Gallade(2hko with rocks) while HP Fire only hits Durant and CB Escavalier harder. These are mons without reliable recovery (bar braviary i guess) you can hit really hard as they tend to switch into Amoonguss a lot so Foul Play is the best option

Oh right I am narrow minded :p
I forget about other pokemon for some reason. Yea in that case FP would be better. (Derp)

 

[starcrusher]

anyone know some good checks to cobalion? does anything hard counter it? i'm seeing a ton of this thing on the ladder recently, and it can be tricky to play around since it has so many options.

 

[aVocado]

anyone know some good checks to cobalion? does anything hard counter it? i'm seeing a ton of this thing on the ladder recently, and it can be tricky to play around since it has so many options.

Moltres, Gligar and Delphox all do a decent job at hard checking it, but they all can lose to different sets. For example, Moltres and Delphox lose to SD + Stone Edge, whereas Gligar loses to Magnet Rise + SD.