Resource ZU Old Gens Hub - ADV Unfrozen & Quickbans #311

[Monai]

BW Sample teams have been updated in time for classic! Big thank you to our contributors, whose names and teams you can find in the sample teams section under the BW post.

 

[CoralReaper707]

I just noticed the Stall sample team for ADV Zu has a calm Delcatty, even though it has body slam. Was that an error or is there a particular reason for it being calm and not careful?

 

[wooper]

I just noticed the Stall sample team for ADV Zu has a calm Delcatty, even though it has body slam. Was that an error or is there a particular reason for it being calm and not careful?

absolutely was an error, thank you for bringing it to my attention! i'll fix it rn

 

[CoralReaper707]

absolutely was an error, thank you for bringing it to my attention! i'll fix it rn

No problems, m8. Also, the fact that fuckin' Rattata of all things is ranked in GSC ZU is inherently funny to me. One more thing to mention: does anyone remember where the RBY ZU viability rankings are located? I forgor.

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

No problems, m8. Also, the fact that fuckin' Rattata of all things is ranked in GSC ZU is inherently funny to me. One more thing to mention: does anyone remember where the RBY ZU viability rankings are located? I forgor.

There isn't an official RBY ZU VR yet, the og post the the closest we have- https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/zu-old-gens-hub.3646944/post-9296850

These posts also do a good job of explaining the general meta-

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/zu-old-gens-hub.3646944/post-9367565

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/zu-old-gens-hub.3646944/post-9342496

 

[innovamania]

No problems, m8. Also, the fact that fuckin' Rattata of all things is ranked in GSC ZU is inherently funny to me. One more thing to mention: does anyone remember where the RBY ZU viability rankings are located? I forgor.

Note that this is purely my thoughts and I do not speak for the rest of the council: The basic philosophy behind revamping the GSC VR for me at least, was that any of the garbage mons that were there that didn't have a noticeable niche were not worth ranking imo. This is the philosophy I used when submitting my votes for VR. A mon like Rattata is still a pretty bad Pokemon however it is the only mon in the tier with access to Super Fang a move that can really help chip down checks for it's teammates which at least gives you some reason to want to run it. Compare this with a Pokemon like Ekans. With the rise of Dratini and Pokemon like Mareep being the premier T-Wave spammers Ekans faces competition for a slot. You can also make the argument that thanks to Glare Ekans has a niche in being able to paralyze ground types but 1. Glare is only 75% accurate and whiffing with a Pokemon like Ekans is absolutely crushing. 2. Dratini and Mareep both commonly run coverage moves to hit Onix, (Ice Beam for Dratini and HP Grass for Mareep). It definitely is funny seeing a Pokemon like Rattata get ranked but that's one of the fun parts of GSC is being able to use Pokemon like that, that would normally never see play. (Rattata still sees no play though)

 

[TTK]

Posting some quick thoughts after playing the fantastic ladder we have for DPP ZU, I gotta talk about a mon that on paper, I was theorycrafting with, and I came to the conclusion that this mon will be meta.


Seadra @ Mystic Water
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Substitute
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I don't know what it is about DPP ZU and Water types, but when you have a tier with minimal grasses and electrics, they tend to be pretty strong overall. Hot take, not hot take, Seadra is probably the best water in the tier right now, even better than Crawdaunt. You get a Sub up vs Probopass, Camerupt and then you're probably forced to sack a mon to break the sub. There's like nothing that wants to switch into Seadra at all in this tier, the coverage is good, it hits hard and the item makes it even harder to deal with. Mystic Water Hydro can straight up OHKO certain offensive threats in the tier after rocks like Luxray, Persian, Girafarig. Golbat has to be a defensive spread or it gets folded by Ice Beam after rocks. You also go Expert Belt to hit opposing waters harder with HP Grass like Phione and Wailord. From what I can say, Mystic Water if you want to nuke hard with Hydro Pump and Expert Belt if you want to punish supposed "switchins", utilising your good coverage.

 

[CoralReaper707]

The Set Compendium Still has a Calm Body Slam Delcatty. At least the stall sample has corrected that Mistake. I'm not mad. I'm just pointing it out. There's no reason to be mad because we all make mistakes!

 

[wooper]

The Set Compendium Still has a Calm Body Slam Delcatty. At least the stall sample has corrected that Mistake. I'm not mad. I'm just pointing it out. There's no reason to be mad because we all make mistakes!

youre not mad, just disappointed

in all seriousness though, the set compendium is a bit of a dated resource at this point, and it will soon be obsolete thanks to the hard work that our team is putting in to make analyses on the official smogon page! these include more nuanced discussions and overviews of the relevant mons to the tier than the set compendium can do. you can check out our very first one on koffing here!

 

[CoralReaper707]

youre not mad, just disappointed

in all seriousness though, the set compendium is a bit of a dated resource at this point, and it will soon be obsolete thanks to the hard work that our team is putting in to make analyses on the official smogon page! these include more nuanced discussions and overviews of the relevant mons to the tier than the set compendium can do. you can check out our very first one on koffing here!

Thank you. I figured something was up with the sets. Yes, I was disappointed in you guys when I saw a calm delcatty, but only for 2 seconds.

 

[Monai]

The BW set compendium has been updated! Huge shoutout to Gangsta Spongebob who did the bulk of the work and absolutely deserves credit.

 

[CoralReaper707]

The BW set compendium has been updated! Huge shoutout to Gangsta Spongebob who did the bulk of the work and absolutely deserves credit.

Based. However, I can't find the Set Compendium for gen 5, unless it's hiding in plain sight and I was expecting a visible set compendium like the gen 6 and gen 3 compendiums.

 

[5gen]

Based. However, I can't find the Set Compendium for gen 5, unless it's hiding in plain sight and I was expecting a visible set compendium like the gen 6 and gen 3 compendiums.

They're linked on the vr for each mon

 

[CoralReaper707]

They're linked on the vr for each mon

Oh. Thanks. It was worded weirdly.

 

[BP]

"OH, MY GOD! An ADV ZU VR Update"
​

Rises

A+ ---> S

Lileep has cemented itself as ADV ZU's most reliable and threatening physical wall. Its Rock-type STAB is absolutely perfect for walling and threatening Pidgeotto and Taillow. This coupled with its access to reliable recovery and Lileep being 3HKOed by CB Aipom's Brick Break make it a formidable physical wall that puts it on the same level of viability as Castform and Aipom.

A ---> A+

With Elekid being such a monumental Pokemon on Balance and Offensive teams alike; Dustox finds extra viability through its ability to efficiently and reliably counter Elekid and other Special Attackers like Staryu, Magnemite, and special attacking Castform variants. Dustox's Toxic immunity and its added bonus of threatening Koffing help increase its viability immensely.

A- ---> A

Koffing's superb physical defense, access to Levitate, Toxic Immunity, and utility movepool propel it forward as a defensive pivot and a pseudo-physical wall. Moreover, it is the premier Rhyhorn counter which allows it to be valuable glue on balance and offensive teams alike.

B+ ---> A-

Despite being weaker on paper than Growlithe, in practice, Cyndaquil is able to put in lots of work as a lead and by extension a wall breaker thanks to Charcoal and its access to Blaze. Cyndaquil's versatility as a Lead such as Lum Berry, RestoChesto, and Charcoal helps cement it as one of the best Leads in ADV ZU.

B+ ---> A

Delcatty's access to Wish and Heal Bell coupled with decent bulk help cement it as one of the most valuable Pokemon on Defensive and Balanced teams. This coupled with its ability to synergize well with almost every other defensive pokemon means it's more then deserving of an A ranking.

B+ ---> A

Magnemite finds a lot opportunities to use the status it decides to run thanks to its typing and 95 base Special Attack. Moreover, it's EVs are highly comstumizable to better fit the exact role that's asked of it. Behind a Substitute Magnemite can be incredibly threatening and often needs to be revenge killed to be dealt with.

B- ---> B+

Shuppet has seen an incredible boost in viability thanks to Delcatty being used on a substantial amount or balanced teams. Shuppet's defensive utility in its Ghost-typing and its offensive prowess thanks to its sizeable Attack Stat make it more than just a Delcatty answer. Shuppet is able to abuse Aipom, Pidgeotto, and Taillow if locked into a Normal- or Fighting-type moves. This makes it a threat especially if it manages to get behind a Substitute.

C+ ---> B+

It's able to come in on Choice Band users that aren't locked into Fighting-type coverage and threaten them out. Originally, its main set was Choice Band but its bulky Leftovers set is just so much better. It's able to find a home within bulky offense, offense, and balance teams fairly easily if there's already a Fighting-type resist. Its main selling point is that it's able to easily check Dustox and comes in virtually for free on other Poison-types bar Koffing.

C+ ---> B-

Croconaw's access to Swords Dance allows it to really shine when paired with status users like lead Aipom, Magnemite, Chinchou, and Butterfree. The Double-Edge Brick Break combo is the perfect coverage while Surf allows it to bust physically defensive Pokemon. Croconaw becomes even more of a threat when paired with Memento Koffing.

C+ ---> B-

Sun is a viable playstyle and Onix is by far the best setter for it. It functions similarly to Voltorb as a lead due to it setting weather and booming right away. Onix can also be used as a Choice Band user but is largely outclassed by other CB users due to its less than appropriate base Attack stat.

C ---> C+

Farfetch'd is a unique sweeper as it appreciates being at 1 HP for Flail to work properly. It's incredibly threatening once Normal-resists are removed. +2 200 BP Flail wipes everything that isn't a normal resist. The only thing that holds Farfetch'd back is the sheer amount of faster Pokemon and how common Normal-resists are.

C ---> C+

With access to Dragon Dance, Hydro Pump for Normal-type resists, and valuable defensive typing; Bagon shouldn't be overlooked as a physical sweeper. However, due to its poor bulk, it's still a niche pick over Larvitar.

C ---> C+

Mankey is ADV ZU's only "viable" Fighting-type. Choice Band Cross Chop is able to 2HKO a majority of the meta bar Fighting-type resists. This coupled with its access to Earthquake for coverage means its ability to threaten those Poison-types. Mankey can also opt to run a Sub Salac set with Bulk Up but Quick Attack from Choice Band Pidgeotto is still doing 40% at +1. Koffing is really the only 100% safe switch-in to Mankey. What holds Mankey back from hitting the B's is its poor bulk and its base 70 speed which means it's easily forced out by a lot of Offensive Pokemon in the meta.

C ---> C+

Pineco is able to be used as a lead or a mid-game Spikes user thanks to its decent physical defense and access to coverage. Lead Pineco is a great answer to lead Butterfree as Rock Slide OHKO's after Pineco's Lum Berry activates. Moreover, Pineco acts as a pseudo-physical wall which allows it to abuse non-choiced physical attackers. Giga Drain is for Rhyhorn and Explosion is for everything else. Pineco works extremely well on bulky offense and certain balance teams.


C- ---> C+

Nidorino is a very unique Choice Band user thanks to its base 72 Attack and access to STAB Sludge Bomb. This allows it to hit almost as hard as Choice Band Aipom without taking recoil damage. Its Toxic immunity also makes it a decent offensive pivot against common Toxic users like Lileep and Dustox.

C- ---> C

Bulk Up and Heal Bell as well as access to Intimidate provide Snubbull with a niche that allows it to abuse non choiced physical attackers and walls that rely on status.

UR ---> C

Levitate, Rapid Spin, Psychic and Ground STAB, along with decent bulk provide Baltoy with all the tools it needs to find a niche on more defensively oriented teams.

UR ---> C+

Numel comes equipped with immunity to Will-O-Wisp, respectable offensive stats, and Fire- and Ground-type STAB. This coupled with its Poison-type resistance means it can abuse Dustox, Grimer, and Koffing.

UR ---> C-

Congrats TomatoZause! Wingull has found a niche for itself as a fast status spreader that abuses Substitute. Wingull is still largely outclassed by Magnemite and Shuppet but it has its merits once pokemon like Elekid and Aipom are removed.

Drops

S ---> A+

Rhyhorn's offensive prowess is still substantial. However, Koffing's rise in usage as well as nearly every special attacker running some form of coverage for Rhyhorn means that it's more easily dealt with. Moreover, Rhyhorn's speed crept immensely and cannot outpace a majority of the meta most notably bulky Castform which runs Ice Beam and always OHKOs if it lacks Spdef investment.

A ---> A-

Bayleef is outclassed as both a physical and special wall by Lileep and Dustox. However, Bayleef is able to maintain its relevance thanks to moves like Swords Dance, Leech Seed, Reflect, and Light Screen. These moves coupled with its bulk provide it the versatility it needs to remain relevant.

A ---> A-

Snorunt has become bait for almost every single lead in the meta. Despite this Snorunt still remains the most viable pokemon with Spikes thanks to its STAB and decent Speed.

A- ---> B+

Staryu's place in the meta is weird. While it has high BP coverage, ties Growlithe in Special Attack, has reliable recovery, access to Rapid Spin, and hits the coveted 295 max speed, it struggles against the plethora of special walls available. This a problem that Cynaquil and Growlithe don't struggle as much with thanks to them checking Dustox.

B+ ---> B

Nosepass struggles to check Magnemite effectively as it's 3HKOed by Hidden Power Grass and 2HKO more defensive Magnemite variants with Earthquake. Despite this, it still boasts the highest Defense stat in the meta and is a valuable Normal-type resist. In this regard it finds itself outclassed by Lileep which has reliable recovery and more than double the base HP that Nosepass has.

C+ ---> C

Zigzagoon is just really underwhelming. Quick Attack has the same priority as Extreme Speed and Zigzagoon is essentially just a piece of paper. Memento Koffing is almost needed to make Zigzagoon work and even then it's still fodder for Quick Attack users. It rarely ever finds an opportunity to click Belly Drum and it's too slow.

C ---> C-

Seaking, Chincou, Staryu, Luvdisc, Croconaw

 

[phoopes]

Hey all, as of the following post, RBY PU has a new VR. This means that anything above the B-/C+ line is PU, and anything below is ZU. Not sure how this affects the ongoing ZU tournament (I think it’s still going on anyway), whether the hosts want to use the old list for the duration or adopt the new list immediately but yeah. New rises! New drops! Fun times. Check it out:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-pu-hub.3700527/page-2#post-9485172

 

[phoopes]

Hey all, as of the following post, RBY PU has a new VR. This means that anything above the B-/C+ line is PU, and anything below is ZU. Not sure how this affects the ongoing ZU tournament (I think it’s still going on anyway), whether the hosts want to use the old list for the duration or adopt the new list immediately but yeah. New rises! New drops! Fun times. Check it out:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-pu-hub.3700527/page-2#post-9485172

About that... please read this follow-up post:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-pu-hub.3700527/page-2#post-9486563

If you're too lazy to click on the link, here's the relevant information to ZU/the ongoing tournament:

Now, for how this affects the ongoing ZU Tournament:

I don't really want to be like, "not my tour, not my problem," but I will say that I would feel bad making the decision for the ZU Tournament especially in a complicated situation like this. I will copy/paste this portion of the post in the relevant threads so it's more visible but with how I see it, there are a few options for the ZU tournament:

1. Keep the old list for the duration of the tournament. This way no one has to learn/adjust to a new meta mid-tournament. With everything going on, I think this might be the best option (but that's just personal opinion).
2. Take the VR that was posted by Volk for now and run with that the rest of the tournament. It is a community VR, even if it's in dispute right now. I don't particularly care for this option personally since people have to learn a completely new meta mid-tournament, but some have expressed support for this afaik
3. Scrap the VR that was posted by Volk and wait for the new and improved version to come out sometime soon (hopefully), then use that whenever it's posted. Personally, I feel like the same as above, because learning a new meta mid-tournament sucks, but some have expressed support for this afaik
4. Use the VR that was posted by Volk until the new and improved version comes out, then use that one instead. While this might be the most faithful to what is "truly" PU and what isn't (and even that's up for debate), I think making people learn three metas for one tournament would really suck and I would not recommend it.
5. Something else I'm not thinking of.

Ultimately, I think it's up to the hosts of the ZU Tournament to decide what to do. Sorry that this is a weird situation to put you in, but I think I laid out the options pretty well with reasonable (personal) opinions on what to do. Maybe do a poll of the ZU community/tournament players to see what they think? I know the next round is coming up soon but hopefully this can be resolved quickly. Sorry again, feel free to reach out to me with any questions/comments/concerns and I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

About that... please read this follow-up post:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-pu-hub.3700527/page-2#post-9486563

If you're too lazy to click on the link, here's the relevant information to ZU/the ongoing tournament:

Textwall

In my opinion, we have 2 major points of consideration:

1) How accurate to RBY ZU will the tour be?

This tour will kickstart the development of the tier, and thus should line up with the what the tier is supposed to be, based on PU's vr. If we stick to option 1, especially if we factor in playoffs being the same, (which I'm unsure if they will be, but either way) we could have weeks of where RBY ZU is completely different from what's being played in the tour, which as I see it defeats the purpose of having the tier there. Maybe an exception could be made for Finals of RBY Cup if the PU vr is released the week before, but otherwise I'd say it's best we stick to what the PU vr is as closely as possible.

2) How many times is it reasonable for players to learn to adapt to a new meta within a single tour?

From day one of Classic we were expecting shifts that would shake up the meta quite a bit, so having to deal with one is to be expected. However, while I wouldn't personally mind it, I believe having to build for 3 metas is too much to ask for and should be avoided.

Following these points, I see option 3 is the best course of action. The methodology of the current PU vr is really dubious, while at the same time we'll only have to adjust the tier once if/when the final PU vr comes out. Having to play 2 metas is annoying, but like I said it was expected and at least it represents the tier. If this for whatever reason doesn't work out, I'd say 2 is the best going forward. Volk's vr shouldn't be drastically different from the final cut, we have that vr as we speak, and we'd only have 2 metas to deal with. If neither of these work, then 4 is probably the best. Having 3 metas will be a hassle but it at least represents the meta.

As I said I dislike 1 since we risk playing a different meta, and furthermore the tier is so new that people are still figuring things out. I don't think it's optimal to favor a meta that will be gone very soon as opposed to a drastically different one we'll be sticking to for the foreseeable future.

As for any broken Pokemon dropping from PU, quite frankly the RBY ZU meta isn't in a great place, and Gastly rising (which will 100% happen) will lead to a healthier meta no matter which Pokemon C+ and below drop from Volk's vr. While I'm not ecstatic to see Pokemon such as Arcanine and Poliwag here, it can't be worse than before.

tldr; 3 > 2 > 4 > 1

 

[Ema Skye]

This rant is a little bit incoherent but I'm going with it.

I think it's fairly uncontroversial to say that RBY ZU, as it stands right now, is an awful tier. While there are a lot of people (for RBY standards) that play it, I have yet to find someone that actually speaks positively of it. Therefore, I immediately want to discard option 1. Not only is it forcing the tour to use a meta that does not exist, it also forces people to keep playing this tier no one likes.

I also want to emphasize one of Gangsta Spongebob's points: RBY ZU players went into this tour knowing that there would be changes to the tier during the tournament. We were prepared to learn new metas as drops and rises happened. That should not be an issue to anyone here because if you signed up to play RBY ZU, you signed up to play two metas.

Option 3 is slightly more palatable to me because it comes with the commitment to update the tier. However, I really don't trust the process to happen relatively quickly and we'll be stuck, again, with an unenjoyable tier for the duration of the tour at a time when we need meta development.

So that leaves me with options 2 and 4. I know a significant portion of ZU players believe that the Volk VR and an updated VR will have very minimal shifts between them (likely Slowpoke and Magmar being the two biggest swings). The Volk VR brings some much needed balance to RBY ZU that makes it more enjoyable to play with by removing Gastly, introducing more mons faster than Arbok and introducing a mon capable of revenge killing Scyther. The Volk VR, while likely not a perfect representation of the tier, is at least close enough that it feels like it could be the final product (again, outside of Magmar/Slowpoke). Option 4 is the best option here because, in the event the VR is updated midtour, the changes are similar to the previous rounds in the tournament and it allows the final rounds to accurately represent the meta.

I know some people are concerned about drops but that's why bans exist. Phoopes assured us on Discord that community bans do exist (that's NUBL exists) and if we are worried about Poliwag (that's the main one I could see being an issue), we have an out to ban it despite not being official. That said, I feel like I don't have to say on Smogon that we shouldn't theorymon here and should give the drops a fair chance.

TLDR: 4>2 >>> 3 >>>>> 1

 

[Howlsome]

My opinion on this topic is as follows:

We have an existing RBY ZU metagame based on an old PU VR that does not accurately reflect PU's current metagame. Most players seem to dislike the current ZU metagame. I personally don't loathe it, I obviously would prefer it if Gastly went to PU where it belongs, but I don't agree that the 6 mons that should drop from PU to ZU deserve to drop. This is just an opinion from a player with no PU reqs so it has little to no relevance but I would like to state it anyhow, and this opinion is shared by other players with reqs (however disagreements on a VR are common and it has no further relevance either).

If the mons should end dropping, that is fine, that is how tiering works. But let the drops happen after a proper revision of the PU VR because clearly some of the submitters did not fully take into account the rules stated for the VR (yes, it's their mistake, but would you rather have an accurate VR or a "but you didn't follow the rules so why should you get to complain"). I find it pointless to have 6 mons drop, completely shift the meta around, force the playerbase to quickly adapt to this new meta, only for 3 (or whatever) mons to go back to PU so now we have to play a new meta again.

TL;DR let the mons drop when the VR is finished, if that is after ZU Cup is over so be it, I would rather not have to adapt twice to mons dropping or going back to PU. If the VR is finished before Cup ends then Cup should adjust the list of legal mons accordingly and players should adapt in the nearest round possible to the VR. So in my opinion R3 should be played with old ZU list and the rest of the rounds as well until a truly official VR is published.

Edit: TL;DR!TL;DR 3 >>>>> 1 >>> 4 > 2

 

[wooper]

big dpp update time!

my team and i wanted to add more specificity to the vr, because there was no real nuance with just S, A, B, and C as ranking options. as a result, we added "high" and "low" categories under each letter rank (with the exception of S) because we didnt feel it necessary to be too particular. in addition, neomon was unable to vote this time around, so we brought on Charles A. Theist, someone we agreed was very knowledgeable of the metagame both in the builder and while battling, to substitute and assist with any tiebreakers. we are very appreciative of his help!

i wont be going over every single change, because there were a lot, but i do want to highlight some specific things!

persian still stands as the sole S rank mon, and for good reason: its ability to make progress is simply unparalleled. stab technician silk scarf-boosted (or life orb, on occasion) fake out into return or double edge is insane damage output on majority of the mons in the tier, even on some resists like lunatone. its presence necessitates a normal-resist on literally every team. it also runs u-turn to net momentum, which it does incredibly well thanks to its unmatched speed tier. as its last move, it can run taunt to disrupt checks like probopass, technician-boosted bite to hit banette and lunatone super effectively (without having to u-turn out vs the latter), or even run hidden power ground with 28 special attack ivs to get the technician boost and chunk probopass, lairon, and mawile. persian also runs the lead metagame; dedicated leads with focus sash like butterfree, bibarel, omanyte, and cranidos have to work around being chipped with lead fake out by running protect, in turn losing out on a valuable moveslot, as well as being vulnerable to taunt.

the bans on lapras, walrein, and most recently, kingler, have really, really freed up the builder for a lot of new mons to emerge as top-tier--both offensively and defensively. wailord, dewgong, carnivine, phione, and seadra all benefited from the removal of these overcentralizing water-types. wailord is a behemoth metaphorically and physically and should have been high A: defensive sets with toxic make progress really easily thanks to its humongous base hp stat; offensive sets make use of its strong stab moves in hydro pump and water spout and can even fit self-destruct to be a nuke vs bulky water- and grass-types; and even crit-me-not sets with curse, amnesia, and waterfall have seen tournament and ladder success. dewgong is deceptively both strong and bulky, can run support moves like encore or toxic, or even a sub 3 atks set with perfect coverage in its dual stabs + hp grass. carnivine has the freedom to run offensive sets with swords dance or specially defensive sets now that it doesnt have to factor in its kingler matchup. phione is nothing spectacular with base 80s across the board, but its access to u-turn makes it great for catching momentum on its checks for its teammates. finally, seadra has a strong base 95 special attack with stab hydro pump and above-average speed for the tier at base 85, making it a great pick for a wallbreaker or choice item user.

the chokehold that persian has on the metagame definitely hurts the viability other pure normal-types like stantler, slaking, granbull, raticate, and vigoroth, but these mons are still great picks and have their own niches over persian. stantler has access to earthquake, megahorn, and sucker punch, which allows it to handle many standard normal-type checks like probopass, lunatone, and banette. slaking also gets earthquake and sucker punch, as well as brick break and night slash; despite its infamous ability, it still packs a powerful punch. granbull can be ran defensively with intimidate, thunder wave, and even the rare cleric move in heal bell, or offensively with quick feet + facade to be a deadly sweeper with access to crunch, earthquake, and close combat. raticate has a strong guts-boosted facade and is the only mon in this list with swords dance. it also can run sucker punch, crunch, u-turn, quick attack, and protect (to proc its status orb), but similarly struggles into probopass and lairon. finally, vigoroth is ranked the lowest among the pure normal-types, but like slaking, has access to night slash and earthquake, as well as bulk up, taunt, and slack off.

baton pass strategies can and do work, but they require the right team support. sd mawile, cm/agil girafarig, cm/rp lunatone, np/agil plusle + minun, and even np togetic have all seen success on the former RoA spotlight ladder and in tournaments.

the wormadam sisters have been seeing a lot of usage lately! trashadam is a very solid mon thanks to its steel-typing that can go either specially or physically defensive; i tend to opt for physical to better handle persian and arbok. she also gets stealth rocks, which sandy oddly does not get. speaking of, sandy has some nice resistances to fighting and ground and is a bug-type that isnt weak to stealth rock. it gets a nice combo of earthquake + speed control with rock tomb.

overall, im really freaking happy with where the meta is right now. i think the past changes were absolutely necessary, and that has led to a ton of exploration and innovation, which in turn paved the way for this revamped vr. definitely feel free to leave your thoughts in this thread, in the zu room, or in the old gens channel in our discord. i'd love to know what youve been using lately, what works and what doesnt, and what changes you'd like to see in the future!

 

[wooper]

double posting and no one can stop me! it's not like you can tell the old gens leader on me

anyways, just wanted to share that with adv cup coming to a close, i will be stepping down as adv zu tier leader. i will be passing the baton hehe to Gangsta Spongebob, who has been a member of the adv council since long before i joined, and is both very deserving and very capable of the role. but dont worry, im not going anywhere! i still will remain a part of the council.

that said, i have loved my tenure as tl. it was one of the first leadership roles i held in the zu community (it might have even been before i was promoted to voice in the room but i genuinely do not remember) and i felt so, so proud of myself. and i still do! i just feel as though my interest in the metagame has waned, and that my leadership is needed elsewhere (looking at you, dpp).

thank you all for believing in me and my abilities, and for allowing me to lead and revitalize this metagame that has meant so much to me.

zu later, alligator!

 

[BeatsBlack]

ZU Classic V Usage *perhaps a bit poorly timed

BW

Overall

Overall

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Persian            |  133 |  45.24% |  45.86% |
| 2    | Solrock            |  124 |  42.18% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Grumpig            |   90 |  30.61% |  55.56% |
| 3    | Emolga             |   90 |  30.61% |  46.67% |
| 5    | Lairon             |   88 |  29.93% |  48.86% |
| 6    | Meganium           |   86 |  29.25% |  50.00% |
| 7    | Muk                |   74 |  25.17% |  59.46% |
| 8    | Staryu             |   73 |  24.83% |  47.95% |
| 9    | Leafeon            |   70 |  23.81% |  47.14% |
| 10   | Simisear           |   69 |  23.47% |  44.93% |
| 11   | Frillish           |   62 |  21.09% |  48.39% |
| 12   | Arbok              |   49 |  16.67% |  51.02% |
| 13   | Mienfoo            |   44 |  14.97% |  52.27% |
| 14   | Clefairy           |   43 |  14.63% |  46.51% |
| 15   | Shelgon            |   42 |  14.29% |  61.90% |
| 16   | Raichu             |   40 |  13.61% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Wormadam-Trash     |   39 |  13.27% |  48.72% |
| 18   | Kingler            |   32 |  10.88% |  56.25% |
| 19   | Ivysaur            |   31 |  10.54% |  51.61% |
| 20   | Slaking            |   26 |   8.84% |  57.69% |
| 21   | Pikachu            |   25 |   8.50% |  56.00% |
| 22   | Mr. Mime           |   23 |   7.82% |  47.83% |
| 23   | Whiscash           |   20 |   6.80% |  45.00% |
| 24   | Graveler           |   19 |   6.46% |  73.68% |
| 24   | Pawniard           |   19 |   6.46% |  42.11% |
| 26   | Pelipper           |   18 |   6.12% |  55.56% |
| 27   | Drilbur            |   17 |   5.78% |  58.82% |
| 28   | Glaceon            |   16 |   5.44% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Luxray             |   16 |   5.44% |  43.75% |
| 30   | Pineco             |   12 |   4.08% |  58.33% |
| 30   | Wormadam-Sandy     |   12 |   4.08% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Walrein            |   12 |   4.08% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Vanilluxe          |   12 |   4.08% |  33.33% |
| 30   | Vullaby            |   12 |   4.08% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Bibarel            |   11 |   3.74% |  27.27% |
| 36   | Munchlax           |   10 |   3.40% |  40.00% |
| 37   | Abra               |    9 |   3.06% |  55.56% |
| 37   | Vibrava            |    9 |   3.06% |  55.56% |
| 37   | Octillery          |    9 |   3.06% |  44.44% |
| 40   | Hippopotas         |    8 |   2.72% |   0.00% |
| 41   | Leavanny           |    7 |   2.38% |  85.71% |
| 41   | Illumise           |    7 |   2.38% |  57.14% |
| 41   | Heatmor            |    7 |   2.38% |  57.14% |
| 41   | Eelektrik          |    7 |   2.38% |  42.86% |
| 41   | Porygon            |    7 |   2.38% |  42.86% |
| 41   | Gastly             |    7 |   2.38% |  42.86% |
| 47   | Exploud            |    6 |   2.04% |  50.00% |
| 47   | Beartic            |    6 |   2.04% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Pignite            |    5 |   1.70% |  80.00% |
| 49   | Lampent            |    5 |   1.70% |  60.00% |
| 49   | Magmar             |    5 |   1.70% |  40.00% |
| 49   | Raticate           |    5 |   1.70% |  40.00% |
| 49   | Magnemite          |    5 |   1.70% |  40.00% |
| 49   | Mothim             |    5 |   1.70% |  20.00% |
| 55   | Machop             |    4 |   1.36% | 100.00% |
| 55   | Sandshrew          |    4 |   1.36% |  75.00% |
| 55   | Chinchou           |    4 |   1.36% |  75.00% |
| 55   | Seviper            |    4 |   1.36% |  75.00% |
| 55   | Phione             |    4 |   1.36% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Budew              |    4 |   1.36% |  50.00% |
| 61   | Marshtomp          |    3 |   1.02% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Girafarig          |    3 |   1.02% |  66.67% |
| 61   | Wailord            |    3 |   1.02% |  66.67% |
| 61   | Grovyle            |    3 |   1.02% |  33.33% |
| 61   | Magcargo           |    3 |   1.02% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Onix               |    2 |   0.68% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Archen             |    2 |   0.68% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Kecleon            |    2 |   0.68% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Fearow             |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 66   | Gloom              |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 66   | Sudowoodo          |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 66   | Butterfree         |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 66   | Servine            |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 66   | Flareon            |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 66   | Beedrill           |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 66   | Meditite           |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Granbull           |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Chimecho           |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Noctowl            |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Shedinja           |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Hypno              |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Quilava            |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 82   | Bellossom          |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 82   | Corsola            |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 82   | Venipede           |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 82   | Weepinbell         |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 82   | Dustox             |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 82   | Shelmet            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Yanma              |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Palpitoad          |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Shuckle            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Mightyena          |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Lopunny            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Swalot             |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Clamperl           |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Lunatone           |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |

DPP

Overall

Overall

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Persian            |  122 |  51.69% |  52.46% |
| 2    | Luxray             |   79 |  33.47% |  43.04% |
| 3    | Camerupt           |   76 |  32.20% |  43.42% |
| 4    | Lunatone           |   63 |  26.69% |  57.14% |
| 5    | Mawile             |   58 |  24.58% |  51.72% |
| 5    | Probopass          |   58 |  24.58% |  50.00% |
| 7    | Golbat             |   57 |  24.15% |  40.35% |
| 8    | Banette            |   55 |  23.31% |  58.18% |
| 9    | Whiscash           |   43 |  18.22% |  41.86% |
| 10   | Gloom              |   41 |  17.37% |  63.41% |
| 11   | Arbok              |   40 |  16.95% |  30.00% |
| 12   | Girafarig          |   36 |  15.25% |  38.89% |
| 13   | Grovyle            |   33 |  13.98% |  33.33% |
| 14   | Crawdaunt          |   32 |  13.56% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Diglett            |   30 |  12.71% |  56.67% |
| 15   | Dewgong            |   30 |  12.71% |  53.33% |
| 17   | Wailord            |   28 |  11.86% |  53.57% |
| 18   | Omanyte            |   27 |  11.44% |  44.44% |
| 19   | Phione             |   26 |  11.02% |  46.15% |
| 20   | Wormadam-Trash     |   23 |   9.75% |  52.17% |
| 20   | Lairon             |   23 |   9.75% |  39.13% |
| 22   | Grotle             |   22 |   9.32% |  63.64% |
| 22   | Carnivine          |   22 |   9.32% |  40.91% |
| 22   | Bibarel            |   22 |   9.32% |  40.91% |
| 25   | Raticate           |   21 |   8.90% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Butterfree         |   19 |   8.05% |  52.63% |
| 27   | Chimecho           |   18 |   7.63% |  66.67% |
| 28   | Seadra             |   17 |   7.20% |  47.06% |
| 29   | Slaking            |   14 |   5.93% |  42.86% |
| 30   | Swalot             |   12 |   5.08% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Flareon            |   12 |   5.08% |  41.67% |
| 32   | Sableye            |   11 |   4.66% |  45.45% |
| 33   | Shelgon            |   10 |   4.24% |  80.00% |
| 33   | Tentacool          |   10 |   4.24% |  60.00% |
| 33   | Pelipper           |   10 |   4.24% |  30.00% |
| 36   | Wormadam-Sandy     |    9 |   3.81% |  44.44% |
| 36   | Beedrill           |    9 |   3.81% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Fearow             |    8 |   3.39% |  62.50% |
| 38   | Wartortle          |    8 |   3.39% |  62.50% |
| 40   | Cranidos           |    7 |   2.97% |  28.57% |
| 41   | Kecleon            |    6 |   2.54% |  50.00% |
| 41   | Dustox             |    6 |   2.54% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Budew              |    5 |   2.12% |  80.00% |
| 43   | Dunsparce          |    5 |   2.12% |  60.00% |
| 43   | Gastly             |    5 |   2.12% |  40.00% |
| 43   | Vibrava            |    5 |   2.12% |  40.00% |
| 47   | Combusken          |    4 |   1.69% |  75.00% |
| 47   | Stantler           |    4 |   1.69% |  50.00% |
| 47   | Mightyena          |    4 |   1.69% |  50.00% |
| 47   | Onix               |    4 |   1.69% |  50.00% |
| 47   | Abra               |    4 |   1.69% |  25.00% |
| 47   | Yanma              |    4 |   1.69% |  25.00% |
| 53   | Sudowoodo          |    3 |   1.27% |  66.67% |
| 53   | Vigoroth           |    3 |   1.27% |  33.33% |
| 53   | Machop             |    3 |   1.27% |  33.33% |
| 53   | Weepinbell         |    3 |   1.27% |  33.33% |
| 53   | Exploud            |    3 |   1.27% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Huntail            |    3 |   1.27% |   0.00% |
| 59   | Plusle             |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 59   | Nuzleaf            |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 59   | Pineco             |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 59   | Pikachu            |    2 |   0.85% |   0.00% |
| 59   | Shuckle            |    2 |   0.85% |   0.00% |
| 59   | Volbeat            |    2 |   0.85% |   0.00% |
| 65   | Wigglytuff         |    1 |   0.42% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Marshtomp          |    1 |   0.42% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Houndour           |    1 |   0.42% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Staryu             |    1 |   0.42% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Sunflora           |    1 |   0.42% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Quilava            |    1 |   0.42% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Granbull           |    1 |   0.42% |   0.00% |
| 65   | Pupitar            |    1 |   0.42% |   0.00% |
| 65   | Octillery          |    1 |   0.42% |   0.00% |
| 65   | Croconaw           |    1 |   0.42% |   0.00% |
| 65   | Duskull            |    1 |   0.42% |   0.00% |
| 65   | Tropius            |    1 |   0.42% |   0.00% |

Missing Pokemon

• Missing 1 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TOY TIME KING.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from 5GEN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from INDER.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from 5GEN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TREINERORENGE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TREINERORENGE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SEXYWOOPER.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from 5DOTS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from INNOVAMANIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from INNOVAMANIA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from INNOVAMANIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TOY TIME KING.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SKRIMPS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ORANBERRYBLISSEY10.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TOY TIME KING.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from SKRIMPS.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from 5GEN.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from MISSANTHROPIC.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from MISSANTHROPIC.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from YOVAN33321.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from SIFICON~.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from INDER.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from INDER.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from HSISI.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from INNOVAMANIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CORTHIUS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CORTHIUS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MONAI.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ZAUSE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CORTHIUS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CZIM.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from ORANBERRYBLISSEY10.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CZIM.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ZAUSE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from AQUATICCARLIE.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from AQUATICCARLIE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ARCE9.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from A FRUITSHOP OWNER.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GOREX.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from A FRUITSHOP OWNER.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from A FRUITSHOP OWNER.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from NHELIOX7.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from MEDEIAA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from 5DOTS.

Lead

Lead

+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Persian                 |   61 |  25.85% |  50.82% |
| 2    | Omanyte                 |   27 |  11.44% |  44.44% |
| 3    | Butterfree              |   19 |   8.05% |  52.63% |
| 4    | Banette                 |   14 |   5.93% |  78.57% |
| 5    | Luxray                  |   13 |   5.51% |  61.54% |
| 5    | Bibarel                 |   13 |   5.51% |  53.85% |
| 7    | Golbat                  |   12 |   5.08% |  41.67% |
| 8    | Dewgong                 |   10 |   4.24% |  40.00% |
| 9    | Camerupt                |    8 |   3.39% |  37.50% |
| 10   | Cranidos                |    7 |   2.97% |  28.57% |
| 11   | Phione                  |    6 |   2.54% |  66.67% |
| 12   | Probopass               |    4 |   1.69% |  50.00% |
| 12   | Onix                    |    4 |   1.69% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Lunatone                |    3 |   1.27% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Dustox                  |    3 |   1.27% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Arbok                   |    3 |   1.27% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Machop                  |    3 |   1.27% |  33.33% |
| 14   | Beedrill                |    3 |   1.27% |  33.33% |
| 14   | Mawile                  |    3 |   1.27% |  33.33% |
| 20   | Wailord                 |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Diglett                 |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Pineco                  |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Abra                    |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Stantler                |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Sudowoodo               |    2 |   0.85% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Exploud                 |    2 |   0.85% |   0.00% |
| 20   | Yanma                   |    2 |   0.85% |   0.00% |
| 28   | Dunsparce               |    1 |   0.42% | 100.00% |
| 28   | Lairon                  |    1 |   0.42% | 100.00% |
| 28   | Pupitar                 |    1 |   0.42% |   0.00% |
| 28   | Fearow                  |    1 |   0.42% |   0.00% |

ADV

Overall

Overall

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Aipom              |  130 |  52.00% |  54.62% |
| 2    | Rhyhorn            |  114 |  45.60% |  44.74% |
| 3    | Koffing            |   97 |  38.80% |  43.30% |
| 4    | Castform           |   93 |  37.20% |  54.84% |
| 5    | Lileep             |   84 |  33.60% |  57.14% |
| 6    | Elekid             |   81 |  32.40% |  41.98% |
| 7    | Chinchou           |   69 |  27.60% |  43.48% |
| 8    | Seaking            |   64 |  25.60% |  56.25% |
| 9    | Dustox             |   58 |  23.20% |  60.34% |
| 10   | Delcatty           |   53 |  21.20% |  52.83% |
| 11   | Snorunt            |   49 |  19.60% |  38.78% |
| 12   | Growlithe          |   48 |  19.20% |  52.08% |
| 13   | Grimer             |   45 |  18.00% |  51.11% |
| 14   | Taillow            |   41 |  16.40% |  51.22% |
| 15   | Cubone             |   36 |  14.40% |  38.89% |
| 16   | Delibird           |   35 |  14.00% |  40.00% |
| 17   | Staryu             |   33 |  13.20% |  54.55% |
| 18   | Butterfree         |   30 |  12.00% |  43.33% |
| 19   | Pidgeotto          |   27 |  10.80% |  33.33% |
| 20   | Exeggcute          |   26 |  10.40% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Cyndaquil          |   24 |   9.60% |  50.00% |
| 22   | Spoink             |   21 |   8.40% |  23.81% |
| 23   | Magnemite          |   20 |   8.00% |  55.00% |
| 24   | Nosepass           |   19 |   7.60% |  78.95% |
| 25   | Shuppet            |   18 |   7.20% |  44.44% |
| 25   | Voltorb            |   18 |   7.20% |  16.67% |
| 27   | Sunflora           |   16 |   6.40% |  68.75% |
| 27   | Bayleef            |   16 |   6.40% |  43.75% |
| 29   | Horsea             |   15 |   6.00% |  33.33% |
| 30   | Mankey             |    6 |   2.40% |  83.33% |
| 30   | Aron               |    6 |   2.40% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Croconaw           |    6 |   2.40% |  16.67% |
| 33   | Pineco             |    5 |   2.00% |  80.00% |
| 34   | Kirlia             |    4 |   1.60% |  75.00% |
| 34   | Onix               |    4 |   1.60% |  75.00% |
| 34   | Parasect           |    4 |   1.60% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Cacnea             |    3 |   1.20% |  66.67% |
| 37   | Farfetch’d         |    3 |   1.20% |  33.33% |
| 37   | Teddiursa          |    3 |   1.20% |  33.33% |
| 37   | Masquerain         |    3 |   1.20% |  33.33% |
| 37   | Gloom              |    3 |   1.20% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Numel              |    2 |   0.80% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Illumise           |    2 |   0.80% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Quilava            |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Nuzleaf            |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Clefairy           |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Larvitar           |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Wailmer            |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Machop             |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Zigzagoon          |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Loudred            |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Carvanha           |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Nidorino           |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Luvdisc            |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Natu               |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Makuhita           |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |

Missing Mons

• Missing 1 Pokemon from ZAUSE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ALBI.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from FERASAUR.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from FERASAUR.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from NHELIOX7.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CURLYFRYCAYCAY.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from TL THE LEGEND??.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from BILBOOO.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from 5DOTS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from BEATSBLACK.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from INNOVAMANIA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from XBOSSARUX.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MONAI.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from TL THE LEGEND??.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from HSISI.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from TL THE LEGEND??.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from HSISI.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from GANGSTA SPONGEBOB.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from KANGLER.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from KANGLER.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from BREEZELORD.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from 5DOTS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from XBOSSARUX.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from XBOSSARUX.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from BREEZELORD.

Lead

Lead

+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Snorunt                 |   44 |  17.60% |  36.36% |
| 2    | Aipom                   |   38 |  15.20% |  55.26% |
| 3    | Growlithe               |   29 |  11.60% |  51.72% |
| 4    | Butterfree              |   27 |  10.80% |  40.74% |
| 5    | Cyndaquil               |   24 |   9.60% |  50.00% |
| 6    | Voltorb                 |   17 |   6.80% |  17.65% |
| 7    | Castform                |   11 |   4.40% |  81.82% |
| 7    | Elekid                  |   11 |   4.40% |  54.55% |
| 9    | Taillow                 |   10 |   4.00% |  80.00% |
| 10   | Chinchou                |    6 |   2.40% |  66.67% |
| 11   | Pineco                  |    4 |   1.60% | 100.00% |
| 11   | Staryu                  |    4 |   1.60% |  75.00% |
| 11   | Parasect                |    4 |   1.60% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Kirlia                  |    3 |   1.20% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Onix                    |    3 |   1.20% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Cacnea                  |    3 |   1.20% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Spoink                  |    3 |   1.20% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Delibird                |    2 |   0.80% | 100.00% |
| 19   | Grimer                  |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 19   | Wailmer                 |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 19   | Exeggcute               |    1 |   0.40% | 100.00% |
| 19   | Nosepass                |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Nidorino                |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Seaking                 |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Makuhita                |    1 |   0.40% |   0.00% |

GSC

Overall

Overall

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Croconaw           |  152 |  91.57% |  49.34% |
| 2    | Magby              |  150 |  90.36% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Smoochum           |   97 |  58.43% |  45.36% |
| 4    | Togetic            |   85 |  51.20% |  50.59% |
| 5    | Onix               |   63 |  37.95% |  53.97% |
| 6    | Bayleef            |   53 |  31.93% |  56.60% |
| 7    | Koffing            |   51 |  30.72% |  50.98% |
| 8    | Tentacool          |   47 |  28.31% |  53.19% |
| 9    | Weepinbell         |   36 |  21.69% |  58.33% |
| 10   | Doduo              |   32 |  19.28% |  43.75% |
| 11   | Diglett            |   29 |  17.47% |  68.97% |
| 12   | Dratini            |   26 |  15.66% |  34.62% |
| 13   | Grimer             |   17 |  10.24% |  41.18% |
| 14   | Teddiursa          |   14 |   8.43% |  21.43% |
| 14   | Butterfree         |   14 |   8.43% |  14.29% |
| 16   | Sandshrew          |   12 |   7.23% |  16.67% |
| 17   | Ivysaur            |   10 |   6.02% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Nidorino           |    9 |   5.42% |  33.33% |
| 19   | Mareep             |    8 |   4.82% |  12.50% |
| 20   | Growlithe          |    7 |   4.22% |  71.43% |
| 21   | Seel               |    6 |   3.61% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Meowth             |    5 |   3.01% |  80.00% |
| 23   | Ledyba             |    4 |   2.41% |  25.00% |
| 24   | Goldeen            |    3 |   1.81% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Nidorina           |    2 |   1.20% | 100.00% |
| 25   | Natu               |    2 |   1.20% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Yanma              |    1 |   0.60% | 100.00% |
| 27   | Snubbull           |    1 |   0.60% | 100.00% |
| 27   | Pineco             |    1 |   0.60% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Machop             |    1 |   0.60% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Krabby             |    1 |   0.60% |   0.00% |

Missing

• Missing 5 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE.
• Missing 5 Pokemon from BANB4DORO.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE.
• Missing 4 Pokemon from ORANBERRYBLISSEY10.
• Missing 4 Pokemon from YOVAN33321.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GOREX.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from KENNY.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MRSOUP.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from IRIMA5.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from FERASAUR.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GANGSTA SPONGEBOB.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from WILD DRUD.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ORANBERRYBLISSEY10.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from WILD DRUD.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ROYZIN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ROYZIN.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from 5DOTS.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from ARCE9.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GOREX.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from BANB4DORO.
• Missing 5 Pokemon from YOVAN33321.
• Missing 5 Pokemon from CONCEPT EVERYTHING.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CORTHIUS.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SQURTLEONYOURPUFF.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SQURTLEONYOURPUFF.

Lead

Lead

+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Magby                   |   80 |  48.19% |  53.75% |
| 2    | Croconaw                |   25 |  15.06% |  72.00% |
| 3    | Butterfree              |   14 |   8.43% |  14.29% |
| 4    | Dratini                 |   10 |   6.02% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Doduo                   |    8 |   4.82% |  37.50% |
| 6    | Meowth                  |    5 |   3.01% |  80.00% |
| 6    | Grimer                  |    5 |   3.01% |  60.00% |
| 8    | Nidorino                |    4 |   2.41% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Mareep                  |    4 |   2.41% |   0.00% |
| 10   | Growlithe               |    3 |   1.81% |  66.67% |
| 11   | Teddiursa               |    2 |   1.20% |   0.00% |
| 12   | Tentacool               |    1 |   0.60% | 100.00% |
| 12   | Diglett                 |    1 |   0.60% |   0.00% |
| 12   | Weepinbell              |    1 |   0.60% |   0.00% |
| 12   | Pineco                  |    1 |   0.60% |   0.00% |
| 12   | Koffing                 |    1 |   0.60% |   0.00% |

RBY

Pre Shift

Pre Shift RBY ZU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Arbok              |  207 |  95.83% |  47.83% |
| 2    | Gastly             |  157 |  72.69% |  54.78% |
| 3    | Primeape           |  148 |  68.52% |  48.65% |
| 4    | Flareon            |  129 |  59.72% |  43.41% |
| 5    | Diglett            |  105 |  48.61% |  58.10% |
| 6    | Pidgeot            |   83 |  38.43% |  57.83% |
| 7    | Onix               |   82 |  37.96% |  42.68% |
| 8    | Scyther            |   61 |  28.24% |  37.70% |
| 9    | Marowak            |   52 |  24.07% |  51.92% |
| 10   | Kabuto             |   49 |  22.69% |  38.78% |
| 11   | Parasect           |   39 |  18.06% |  48.72% |
| 12   | Hitmonlee          |   34 |  15.74% |  38.24% |
| 13   | Pikachu            |   21 |   9.72% |  42.86% |
| 14   | Butterfree         |   17 |   7.87% |  29.41% |
| 15   | Weepinbell         |    9 |   4.17% |  66.67% |
| 15   | Magneton           |    9 |   4.17% |  33.33% |
| 17   | Rhyhorn            |    8 |   3.70% |  75.00% |
| 18   | Ponyta             |    4 |   1.85% |  25.00% |
| 19   | Lickitung          |    3 |   1.39% |  66.67% |
| 19   | Charmeleon         |    3 |   1.39% |  66.67% |
| 19   | Meowth             |    3 |   1.39% |  33.33% |
| 19   | Machoke            |    3 |   1.39% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Muk                |    3 |   1.39% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Clefairy           |    2 |   0.93% |  50.00% |
| 24   | Weezing            |    2 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Horsea             |    2 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Tentacool          |    2 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Shellder           |    2 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Venonat            |    1 |   0.46% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Golbat             |    1 |   0.46% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Farfetch’d         |    1 |   0.46% |   0.00% |

Missing

• Missing 1 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MEDEIAA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MEDEIAA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from HOWLSOME.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from JONAMON 25.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SOMALIA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from DARKNESS_POKE2.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from YOVAN33321.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from YOVAN33321.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TEHTAYTEH.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TWENTYTWAN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TWENTYTWAN.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from UTA THE CLOWN.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from ALBI.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from STUNNER047.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from BLOODACE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GASTALIES.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from ROYZIN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from ROYZIN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SQURTLEONYOURPUFF.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from SQURTLEONYOURPUFF.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TREE69420.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MEDEIAA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from NICOLE7735.
• Missing 3 Pokemon from GETSLEIDSUN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from KENNY.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GASTALIES.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from CHERMAL.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from DIANNIERATSON.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TRAINERPLA.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from DIANNIERATSON.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from HOWLSOME.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MISSANTHROPIC.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from TEHTAYTEH.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from TEHTAYTEH.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from JONAMON 25.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from DARKNESS_POKE2.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GOREX.

Pre Shift Lead

Lead

+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Arbok                   |   66 |  30.56% |  51.52% |
| 2    | Diglett                 |   54 |  25.00% |  59.26% |
| 3    | Gastly                  |   38 |  17.59% |  47.37% |
| 4    | Primeape                |   20 |   9.26% |  45.00% |
| 5    | Butterfree              |   14 |   6.48% |  21.43% |
| 6    | Parasect                |    6 |   2.78% |  66.67% |
| 7    | Pikachu                 |    4 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 7    | Scyther                 |    4 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Onix                    |    3 |   1.39% |   0.00% |
| 10   | Ponyta                  |    2 |   0.93% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Pidgeot                 |    1 |   0.46% | 100.00% |
| 11   | Charmeleon              |    1 |   0.46% | 100.00% |
| 11   | Venonat                 |    1 |   0.46% | 100.00% |
| 11   | Marowak                 |    1 |   0.46% |   0.00% |
| 11   | Golbat                  |    1 |   0.46% |   0.00% |

Post Shift

Rounds 3-Finals (Post Shift)

Post Shift RBY ZU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Arcanine           |   50 |  86.21% |  54.00% |
| 2    | Sandslash          |   47 |  81.03% |  51.06% |
| 3    | Slowpoke           |   31 |  53.45% |  51.61% |
| 4    | Primeape           |   28 |  48.28% |  46.43% |
| 5    | Arbok              |   27 |  46.55% |  37.04% |
| 6    | Magmar             |   19 |  32.76% |  47.37% |
| 7    | Parasect           |   18 |  31.03% |  44.44% |
| 8    | Electrode          |   17 |  29.31% |  58.82% |
| 9    | Weepinbell         |   14 |  24.14% |  64.29% |
| 9    | Scyther            |   14 |  24.14% |  42.86% |
| 11   | Poliwag            |   13 |  22.41% |  38.46% |
| 12   | Pidgeot            |   10 |  17.24% |  60.00% |
| 13   | Onix               |    6 |  10.34% |  66.67% |
| 13   | Vileplume          |    6 |  10.34% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Kabuto             |    6 |  10.34% |  16.67% |
| 16   | Flareon            |    4 |   6.90% |  25.00% |
| 17   | Lickitung          |    3 |   5.17% |  33.33% |
| 17   | Pikachu            |    3 |   5.17% |  33.33% |
| 19   | Muk                |    2 |   3.45% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Golbat             |    2 |   3.45% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Hitmonlee          |    2 |   3.45% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Wartortle          |    2 |   3.45% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Weezing            |    1 |   1.72% | 100.00% |
| 23   | Butterfree         |    1 |   1.72% | 100.00% |
| 23   | Rhyhorn            |    1 |   1.72% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Diglett            |    1 |   1.72% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Dratini            |    1 |   1.72% |   0.00% |

• Missing 2 Pokemon from FISHINGFORCHUBS.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from YAZUWU.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from JONAMON 25.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from YAZUWU.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from SQURTLEONYOURPUFF.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GANGSTA SPONGEBOB.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from MEDEIAA.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from ROYZIN.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from DARKNESS_POKE2.
• Missing 2 Pokemon from YAZUWU.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GASTALIES.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from GASTALIES.
• Missing 1 Pokemon from SQURTLEONYOURPUFF.

Post Shift Lead

Lead

+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Arcanine                |   15 |  25.86% |  53.33% |
| 2    | Primeape                |   13 |  22.41% |  53.85% |
| 3    | Arbok                   |    7 |  12.07% |  57.14% |
| 3    | Poliwag                 |    7 |  12.07% |  42.86% |
| 5    | Electrode               |    6 |  10.34% |  33.33% |
| 6    | Slowpoke                |    4 |   6.90% |   0.00% |
| 7    | Magmar                  |    3 |   5.17% | 100.00% |
| 8    | Weezing                 |    1 |   1.72% | 100.00% |
| 8    | Pikachu                 |    1 |   1.72% | 100.00% |
| 8    | Onix                    |    1 |   1.72% |   0.00% |

 

[Corthius]

DPP ZU VR NOMINATIONS​

A Rank - Pokémon that are metagame staples. Can easily fill their given roles in team building, but have a noticeable weakness in need of addressing.

High
Crawdaunt High A -> Low A
What this is doing in high A Rank, and moreso being above Dewgong and Wailord is beyond me. I'd even argue that Dewgong and Wailord even surpass Whiscash, still putting them into the same rank tho. My main gripe with Crawdaunt is that it takes up your Water type slot, without acting like one defensively. Its Dark typing is cool, but vs the two common Psychic types, Girafarig and Lunatone, it doesn't take them much damage in order to not really care about you anymore, because you get put into range of coverage moves, especially on the special side, so much. Maybe I am treating this unfairly, feel free to point out posititves I am missing. Offensively it's great and all, but just soooooo slow.

Luxray High A -> S
God I love using this pokemon, but hate facing it. It is SO good, I can't underestimate it. Its movepool is huge, which allows Luxray to pick its checks and counters. BoltBeam + ToxTect makes incredible progress vs standard builds, only really annoyed by spdef Poison types like Gloom, Ivysaur and Swalot. Outside of BoltBeam already hitting the whole relevant tier for neutral, it has even more options, which allow it to hit on both sides of the defensive spectrum. Intimidate is just the cherry on the cake in addition to its solid bulk and pure Elektric typing, which allows it to check physical attacker like Golbat and Mawile. Insane pokemon. Maybe my own bias, High A is a fine rank for it.

Low
Banette Low A -> High B
Banette has never impressed me as much as the other A ranks if I am being honest. I get its appealing, Normal immunity and Ghost + Fighting for perfect coverage gives it good defensive utility and offensive presence, but its speed holds it back immense in my eyes. While base 65 isn't bad at all, you get outspedt by many top threats and with Banette's low bulk it's not like you are comfortable with taking a lot of hits either. Choice Scarf sets are really cool, but then you are faced with the issue of Ghost as a stand-alone type is not as great as you'd want it to be.

Wailord Low A -> High A
Having Wailord ranked this low is a robbery and feels very out of place. It is easily the best defensive Water type in the tier, with many applications where its defensive profile comes into play. And it's not like Wailord has only one set it can run. It has at least 4-5 different sets that it can viably run, further boosting its viability and versatility, allowing it to fit on most team archetypes. You could make a case for Dewgong deserving to be up there too, but I'm not that pressed about its ranking; If anyone cares to make the nom I'd still support it.

B Rank - Notably fare well, either in response to certain threats in the metagame or occupying a useful niche to distinguish itself. These tend to have a few roadblocks that can dampen their performance.

Low
Bibarel Low B -> High B + Butterfree Low B -> High B
I will put these together, even tho they have different attributes and purpose as leads, but I believe that the higher ranking would reflect their place in the metagame better.
Bibarel is my favorite HO lead if you want to reliably prevent opposing hazards being set up, due to its fast Taunt. and get up your own Stealth Rock. Besides getting up hazards and preventing them, Bibarel has more utility to offer as well. It can act as a status spreader, with Thunder Wave being a common choice, but also Toxic or Yawn being options to consider. Additinonally, it has a solid dual STAB typing with Waterfall + Frustration / Double-Edge, with Double-Edge having nice synergy with Focus Sash as a suicide lead, taking Bibarel out after its brought down to low HP to maintain momentum. Superfang is a cool option that complements with Taunt, netting nice 50% on defensive pokemon thinking they can safely take out Bibarel and heal off the damage afterwards.
Butterfree is completly different to Bibarel in what its supposed to do as a lead. With Compound Eyes its the fastest and most reliable Sleep inducer in the tier. Sleep is very powerful in DPP and having access to inflict it rather reliably gives it a decent niche in the metagame, usually seen as a lead. U-turn for additonal momentum to capitilize on the crippled foe only adds onto its viablitiy. The last moveslots are somewhat flexible, with Protect being a really common in order to block Fake Out, maintaining its Focus Sash. Stun Spore is a good utility option, that can catch opponents off guard, that want to take advantage of Butterfree after it has already put something to sleep. In a similar vein, Whirlwind has pretty much the same purpose. I'm not that pressed about Butterfree moving up, its matchup into Taunt lead Persian, which is very common, is not favorable.


I think that is it with my biased takes for now.

 

[Spacial]

Teams myself, Bloodace, and TTK worked on for Olympiad. Will also be including a short VR nom.

W1 vs Heysup - L



Notes: Modest over Timid on Wailord for more power + Timid still falling short of Persian.

W2 vs Beraldinho - W



Notes: HP Fire Carnivine beats Trashdam and improves the Gloom matchup considerably.

W3 vs Ara - W (Hys played in my stead)



Notes: Luxray spread ensures that Gloom can never break your sub barring a crit. Hys changed out Substitute for Protect.

W4 vs HSOWA - W



Notes: Return makes Carnivine a more viable recipient for a Baton Passed SD.

W5 vs Drud - L



Notes: Quick Attack can be replaced with Pursuit or Double Edge if desired.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

​

from High B to Low A

I think Seadra can stand alongside Dewgong. In exchange for worse overall bulk and a sharp lack of defensive utility, Seadra brings offensive potency and speed; Life Orb has insane KO potential, notably wrecking conventional water resists like Carnivine and Gloom while not having to depend on a choice item for speed like Wailord. Endure Salac also excels as a cleaner that can ignore Persian, utilizing Seadra's good speed tier to punish teams relying on it as their sole form of speed control. It's a unique and viable role that very few other mons in the tier can really fulfill, and thus I believe it's deserving of a higher ranking to reflect that.